I get so sick of some of you trashing Bill Clinton

[CatWoman]

signed,

an African American Woman who will always admire and respect him.

[knowbody0]

1. I watched the View

I get him. I also admire and respect him

[liberalmuse]

2. I don't blame you.

I will always admire and respect him. I guess my only complaint is that he seems to be too generous and trusting, especially with Palin, who won't hesitate to smear his name in her speeches.

[TheDebbieDee]

3. I like and admire both of the Clintons........

And I remember the Clinton years as some of the best years, full of hope for the future of my young children.

[emilyg]

49. Amen.

[Whisp]

53. for 8 years he didn't care much for Iraqi children.

with bombings and sanctions.
but I guess our children have always been more important.

[DiamondKrosse]

66. sanctions are why

Iraq was not a danger in the first place. Bill Clinton's policy of containment on Iraq is why they had no WMDs

[gingersnaps1]

85. Absolutely!!!

Yes, babies died because they couldn't get simple medicine that we can just walk to the nearest Duane Reade and pick up off the shelf.

I was in college for BC last term in office and I remember protesting some of his policies. I understand that we have the world that we live in but I want to create the world I want. Bill Clinton is human and as such he messes up from time to time. Unfortunately for me he has the ear of the American public and he can do way more damage than I can. If he messes up and I plan to call him on it. If I mess up, I know people would call me on it. Why should he be any different.

I saw the interview on the View and I thought it was luke warm. Fact of the matter he cannot claim that HRC won the popular vote because she did not. By claiming that she won the popular vote makes it seem as though Obama's nomination was ill gotten. All of us who have gone out canvassing, persuading, mobilizing, donating, calling, and writing countless letters to newspapers it is a slap in the face.

As for his Presidency, I can't even get into that.

[sandspur]

87. so exactly what was he supposed to do? Go to war in Iraq or let Sadam

off the hook? There where no good choices, that is why Bush Sr. did not go into Baghdad. Too bad his even more idiotic son had to show the world that "nobody messes with the Bushes".

[intheflow]

144. Our children weren't that important to him, either.

Or else he would have vetoed the welfare reform Contract on America bullshit the Republicans dreamed up.

[elocs]

4. What exactly qualifies as "trashing"?

This happened with Hillary during the primaries where if someone did not agree with something she said or did it was said they were "trashing" her. Does "trashing" count for anybody other than the Clintons?

[CatWoman]

9. let's stick to the subject, shall we?

I don't remember saying anything about Hillary......

[elocs]

14. I am saying that accusing people of trashing Bill Clinton is exactly what happened with Hillary.

I sorry that you cannot comprehend how that is not on topic, but it certainly is directly related. Again, what exactly constitutes "trashing"? Answer?

[CatWoman]

71. I've seen several threads dissing him for several reasons

look beyond page 1 of this forum.

now you want me to look "trashing" up for you?

stop playing games.

[elocs]

82. So if you disagree with Bill Clinton, then you are trashing or dissing him.

What is it called for regular folks? People are allowed to disagree or not like what Bill Clinton says or does, aren't they? :shrug:

[endthewar]

15. Interpretation: Please keep your facts out of my rant. Thanks.

:rofl:

[CatWoman]

25. I beg your pardon?

:shrug:

[endthewar]

31. Read post #14

I think elocs has already responded to this. :eyes:

[daa]

43. Hurts huh

Can't even win a majority in the primary makes it tough in the general. I know the 5 point poll lead and I know the Bradley effect also.

ill Clinton was a great president, I had a job and the budget was in balance and yes, he inherited shit from a Bush. I don't think I can say the same thing for the next 4 years and Clinton had a republican congress to deal with. 28 million jobs and you can't take that away with your hope.

[endthewar]

44. Your horse lost, so quit crying and stick a pacifier in it.

:rofl:

[Teaser]

132. Do you support our nominee

answer careful now...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. Reminds us of Palin, right? Can't criticize her. Can't question comments she made, lest we be accuse

of sexism. It's ridiculous!!

I've forgiven Hillary. It's Bill that I'm having problems with. His mouth and his behavior hurt Hillary Clinton during the primaries. Now he's doing it again to Obama. Bill Clinton cares only about one thing: Bill Clinton. That. is. all.

[No Elephants]

127. Apparently, telling the truth about Bubba's conduct is "trashing" him.

[Cha]

5. I'm sick of Bill Clinton lying about HIllary winning the popular

vote in the primaries. Signed a White Woman.

[AtomicKitten]

21. Perpetuating the myth that she won the popular vote is purposeful and unforgivable.

[Zuiderelle]

37. I'm sick of people lying about Clinton saying that.

Signed - A person who knows that "got ahead in the primaries" and "won the primaries" is not the same thing at all.

[Cha]

42. You're just enabling Bill Clinton shit...

he started this divisive shit and you're perpetuating it.

[Zuiderelle]

48. You're just flying off the handle.

I like Bill Clinton. I saw the interview today three times, and I think he was fucking fantastic. Very poised and intelligent and supportive of Obama's campaign. Bill's a politician and a diplomat, he's not a talking head. He was trying to reach undecided voters, and he did it the right way. The wrong way is to call them stupid for even thinking of voting for an unqualified candidate.

Amazing how people can't see past their own ridiculous hatred of a really great president like Clinton to understand why he said things the way he did. Obama would have done the same.

[AtomicKitten]

95. Here you go: "Popular Vote Poison: How Hillary's Latest Math Hurts the Party."

Both Clintons have pushed this misconception; stop pretending otherwise.

BETWEEN THE LINES
Jonathan Alter
Popular Vote Poison: How Hillary's latest math hurts the party.
May 21, 2008

Give credit where it's due: Hillary Clinton has shown grit and determination in finishing out the race. She has proved herself a strong campaigner. And in the week since West Virginia, she has stopped the cheap shots that had marred her campaign this year.

But Clinton has continued with one claim that could have a pernicious effect on the Democrats' chances in November. While she knows that the nomination is determined by delegates, Hillary insists on saying at every opportunity that she is winning the popular vote. And she has now taken to touting the new HBO movie "Recount," which chronicles the Florida fiasco of eight years ago. Everyone can agree that the primary calendar needs reform. But popular-vote pandering is poison for Democrats. For a party scarred by the experience of 2000, when Al Gore received 500,000 more popular votes than George W. Bush but lost the presidency, this argument is sure to make it harder to unite and put bitter feelings aside.

Oh, and it's not true.

Let me go through the numbers without making your head spin

more at: http://www.newsweek.com/id/138109

[Beacool]

117. Ahhhh yes, Jonathan Alter and Newsweek.

I remember just how objective they were during the primary.

Enough said..........

:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

120. Enough said? Sure, if you're unwilling to look at the truth.

You must have an entire pile of sources you summarily reject because they have the nerve to report the election as it plays out. And you still aren't addressing the point here and that is the Clintons are still claiming she won the popular vote when she did not.

[polmaven]

148. Oh, bwaa-haa...

Mommy, Mommy.....He started it mommy.......:cry: :cry:

[karynnj]

97. You keep posting this, please explain it

as HRC was NEVER ahead in the regular delegate count or the popular vote count.

[No Elephants]

128. Um, he just said on The View that she won the popular vote, almost in those exact words. Wake

up and smell the passive aggressive treachery.

[progressiveforever]

6. I like Clinton as a leader, but he doesn't do much good for other Dems.

He's too conservative for my tastes, but I give him his due.

[anneboleyn]

51. This is true -- I think he is out for his own interests, which is too bad because he could give his

support to other candidates that might benefit from it.

[damntexdem]

7. I have no problem with trashing Bill Clinton.

But he was so much better than the garbage we've had for the last 8 years and are offered by the GOP for four more.

But Obama looks to be so much better than we have had in the WH for decades.

[CatWoman]

10. well, why not start your own "trash" thread then?

[QC]

13. Might as well--everybody else has.

I suspect that there's more trashing of Clinton here than on the wingnut sites. Funny how that works, isn't it? It's almost enough to make me think that we have a hell of a lot of seventhson-style undercover freepers here.

[CatWoman]

73. lol!!!

*Might as well--everybody else has*

[JoFerret]

83. For sure

Place is crawling with 'em.

[SoonerPride]

8. I get so sick of Bill Clinton praising republicans

signed,
A DEMOCRATIC VOTER

[cali]

11. good for you. I don't like Bill Clinton. I never liked Bill Clinton

I never respected him. I admired his intelligence but not his character. Each to their own. And I get so sick of hearing Bill lavish praise on McCain and Palin.

[Metric System]

109. You're so right. When Bill was on the View he should have called Palin a c*nt and McCain senile. And

then the Obama campaign could have wasted their time doing damage control.

[Forkboy]

114. Total strawman.

How about just not praising them?

[cali]

124. idiot comment. here, let me explain it really simply- just for

you: Bill could say nothing about Palin and talk up Obama and Biden. Or Billyboy could point out that Palin is an extremist who doesn't support women's issues. DUH.

[ericgtr]

12. And I'm sick of Bill trashing our nominee

signed,

a democrat who would like to win an election we are very close to losing.

[Sebastian Doyle]

23. Good point you made there - he's trashing our nominee.

If Bill Clinton posted at DU, he would be tombstoned for saying the things he has said about Obama and/or supportive of McCain.

[genna]

16. I get so sick of having to stand by EVERY SINGLE SCREW UP BC HAS

and having to grin and bear it.

BC was my first and second vote for U.S. President. I like him personally, but let's be honest some of his TRADE-OFFs have SUCKED!

I've always heard it said, "Tell the truth and shame the devil." I plan to work on being as honest as I can about friends bending me over without my permission.

-signed an unapologetic African American woman

[gingersnaps1]

84. Second that!!!!

[dansolo]

17. I don't admire or respect Bill

That is my opinion, which I am fully untitled to. I don't particularly like or trust him.

[vssmith]

52. Agreed, as Michael Moore said "A great Republican President"

[salguine]

18. That's your prerogative. It's mine to think he's a complete tool, and to say so if I wish.

[CatWoman]

27. yes it is my prerogative

isn't it?

[Sebastian Doyle]

19. I get so sick of Bill Clinton acting like the Repuke candidate is just as good as the Democrat.

He did it in 2004 and he's doing it again now. If he honestly believes that Chimp Bush or John McCain are "good men" and just as qualified to lead this country as their Democratic opponents, then he has lost his fucking mind.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. Bill Clinton is good friends with McSame and Bush.

That's the problem with the Democratic Leadership Council.

[Chloroplast]

20. I will criticize ANY Democratic politician that keeps trying to undermine our nominee.

Signed,

An African-American Woman that doesn't give a shit if Bill Clinton's fans/stalkers get upset

[JVS]

135. Nice sign-off line!

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. And I am sick of him praising the opposition

which is, in essence, trashing our candidate.

[Demi_Babe]

24. CatWoman...I get sick of it too...like was mentioned...he is a diplomat

that I have great respect for and understanding his neutral stance. He is a plus for the democratic party and a plus to Barack Obama.

[CatWoman]

26. and from the many sour grapes posted on this thread

several of them don't "do" diplomacy.

I suppose they prefer the Republican way: trash the opposition long, often and loudly.

[Indenturedebtor]

45. I will trash any policy or supporter of a policy that goes against progressive values

Bill was a moderate. I am a progressive. And he's worked hard against progressive interests in the past.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

75. Neutral stance? He should be trying to convince voters to vote for Barack Obama

Are there any "neutral" Republicans out there who constantly praise Obama? You'd be hard-pressed to find one.

Come on, CatWoman. Open your eyes! You can't be that naive.

[Forkboy]

28. Eh, he's ok. Nothing more, nothing less.

He's not as bad as some make him out to be and he's not as good as others make him out to be. He's a political creature through and through, which means his loyalties are always going to be in question by many, including me (I don't trust a single politician on a purely base level, and so far not one has proven me wrong for that lack of trust in them). He doesn't seem to operate based on beliefs so much, but on political strategy and maneuvering, often at the expense of those beliefs he says he holds.

Policy wise, he was a complete mixed bag. Ethics wise...well, anyone who cheats on their spouse is lacking there, in my opinion. I've never done it and never will, and have little respect for those that do. One of my pet peeves, sorry.

And to blunt, during the primaries he acted like a whiny shitheel. And that's fresher in the minds of many than the 90's (which really weren't all that great if you were actually dirt poor).

I've seen him do great things, and I've seen him do shitty things.

He's the ultimate mixed bag. :shrug:

Signed, a dirty white boy who is pretty indifferent to the Clintons altogether. :P

[JuniperLea]

29. I have mixed feelings...

I know he did us wrong on many counts with regard to deregulation. For that alone he could be crucified.

However, what I'm seeing today is willful ignorance. When someone is trying to explain how a voting populace thinks, you cannot attribute those ideals to the person speaking. That is what I'm seeing here, and it makes me want to run far, far away from DU! That's lunacy! Shooting the messenger makes the shootist look hysterical. THat is what I'm seeing here.

Bill knows how to sit on a fence and have adoring fans on both sides. I would expect Obama to adopt SOME of this MO... he may have to in order to get some things done. It remains to be seen.

What I won't do is forget the good things he did... his work in civil rights is worthy.

Some people have actual, valid issues they are upset with Bill about. Voicing that is ok by me. Getting panties in a bunch because you don't understand what the situation is, is dumb.

[No Elephants]

129. Please remind me what he did for civil rights while President.

[JuniperLea]

141. Uh... Ok...

1995: On affirmative action: "mend not end"
The 1995 Adarabd v. Pena case was a landmark Supreme Court ruling against government racial preferences and quotas. Prior to Adarand, the government sponsored in one form or another more than 160 racial preference programs allocating some $10 billion through overt racial spoils systems. Those submitting the lowest bid, for example, would not get certain jobs or contracts unless they ore their companies fit certain racial or ethnic profiles. Bill Clinton responded with a slogan he must have borrowed from Jesse Jackson: he wanted to "mend not end" these discriminatory programs, benignly labeled 'affirmative action,' and used an executive order to continue the profiling.
Source: The Final Days, by Barbara Olsen, p. 79 Sep 25, 2003

1993: Issued gays-in-military policy 'don't ask, don't tell'
Within days of being sworn in as president, Clinton issued an order about homosexuals in the military, changing existing policy to what became 'don't ask, don't tell.' That order responded to pressure from Clinton's homosexual supporters, who had raised $3.5 million dollars for him.
Source: The Final Days, by Barbara Olsen, p. 78 Sep 25, 2003

Work to End Racial Profiling
To help determine where and when racial profiling occurs, Pres. Clinton directed the Departments of Justice, Treasury and Agriculture to collect data on the race, ethnicity, and gender of individuals subject to certain stops by federal law enforcement. The President also supports legislation to help state and local police forces to collect the same data. The President has also supported increased resources for police integrity and ethics training and to improve the diversity of local police forces.
Source: WhiteHouse.gov web site Aug 1, 2000

End Discrimination Against People With AIDS
President Clinton supports the Supreme Court’s decision in Bragdon v. Abbott, which reinforces the protections offered by the Americans With Disabilities Act for Americans living with HIV and AIDS. The President directed the Justice Department and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to vigorously prosecute those who discriminate against people with AIDS, leading to actions against health care providers and facilities that violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.
Source: WhiteHouse.gov web site May 1, 2000

First President to appoint open gays
Creating the most diverse Administration in history, the President has appointed openly gay men and lesbians to all levels of government, including judicial appointments and top Executive Branch positions requiring Senate confirmation. In fact, President Clinton is the first President to appoint an openly gay or lesbian person to an Administration post. The President has nominated more than 150 openly gay and lesbian appointees.
On October 6, 1997 and again on January 6, 1999, the President nominated James C. Hormel to be U.S. Ambassador to Luxembourg. Although Mr. Hormel’s qualifications were never in question, and it was generally agreed that his nomination would have easily won a floor vote, a handful of conservative Senators blocked the nomination. On June 4, 1999, President Clinton announced the recess appointment of James Hormel, making Mr. Hormel the first openly gay U.S. Ambassador.

Source: WhiteHouse.gov web site May 1, 2000

Include sexual orientation in Hate Crimes
Discrimination or violence because of race or religion, ancestry or gender, disability or sexual orientation, is wrong, and it ought to be illegal. Therefore, I ask Congress to make the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and the Hate Crimes Prevention Act the law of the land.
Source: State of the Union Address Jan 19, 1999

Help minority- and women-owned businesses compete
The President signed the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century into law on June 9, 1998. The Act protects the Disadvantaged Business Enterprise (DBE) Program, a program that ensures that minority and women-owned businesses have an opportunity to compete for transportation projects. The Administration helped defeat an amendment to the House version of this bill that would have eliminated the DBE Program. In a different measure, the President also approved the creation of a new program to target assistance to minority-owned businesses in industries that continue to reflect the effects of discrimination. As a result, thousands of minority-owned businesses will be able to compete more effectively for government contracts.
Source: WhiteHouse.gov web site Jun 9, 1998

Affirmative action: mend it, don’t end it
The Supreme Court rejected the notion that we could ever be separate but equal, and Democrats and Republicans alike passed laws against discrimination and created affirmative action programs to redress centuries of wrongs for minorities and women.
Affirmative action was intended to give everybody a fair chance, but it hasn’t always worked smoothly & fairly. Today there are those who are determined to put an end to affirmative action, as if the purposes for which it was created have been achieved. They have not. Until they are, we need to mend affirmative action, most certainly, but not end it.

That is exactly what we are trying to do: end abuses, prohibit quotas, subject affirmative action to strict review, oppose any benefits to those who aren’t qualified, but make that extra effort to see that everyone has not a guarantee, but a chance.

Source: Between Hope and History, by Bill Clinton, p.132 Jan 1, 1996

[LaPera]

30. Mike Malloy said it first and Mike Malloy said it best!

Uh, if you really care to know, you'd know....someone will repeat it for you.

[Zuiderelle]

32. Hear Hear.

[styersc]

33. One hundred percent in agreement. Should Obama fail to win in

November it will rest squarely on the shoulders of those who thought that the Obama campaign should be driven by an egotistical clique instead of an inclusive movement of fed up Democrats.

It is telling, however, that Obama never speaks in negative terms about the Clinton or Clinton supporters. It is a small, vocal minority of his supporters that are and will continue to injure this campaign.

[Balderdash]

134. Absolutely!

:thumbsup:

[nini]

34. Thank you oh wise one

:D

:hi:

[progdog]

35. Go right ahead.

If Bill Clinton really cared he be out there telling the people that Obama is exactly what we need. He'd be promoting him energetically. His half hearted endorsements reveal a lot. My admiration for him has evaporated.

[Carolina]

38. completely agree

My admiration for him has evaporated precisely for the reason you noted.

[MattP]

36. Whoever is praising Mike Maloy please don't he hates everybody to the right of him which is everyone

I listened to him a couple of times and he will tell you everybody is wrong but him.

[Sebastian Doyle]

81. Now there's a first

Usually the Malloy bashing doesn't start until he's on the air. :eyes:

Malloy's never promoted Republicans. Wish I could say the same about the Clintons.

[LiberalHeart]

39. Total agreement here.

[PresidentObama]

40. I'm so THRILLED to send this to the greatest page. Agreed, 110%

[Life Long Dem]

41. Let's quit talking about the Clinton's, this is about Obama.

[H2O Man]

46. What did I say?

signed,

a Sonny Liston fan who will always admire and respect you.

[otohara]

47. Being An African American Woman

and this is this relevant to your post because....????

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

58. Because Bill's statements today and throughout the primary season has divided us by

race and gender. His diatribe on the West Virginia primary, in particular, was disgusting. Though Hillary had a decisive victory in WV, Bill claimed that sexism was more visceral than racism. What? Hillary won WV by over 40%!!

Bill played the sex and race card today when he didn't have to. And sure, it was Barbara Walters who mentioned the primaries, but Bill could have been more diplomatic in his responses. Instead, he continues to push the lie that somehow Hillary was the rightful winner. He hesitated when asked if Obama would win and his answer was not forceful or convincing at all. It was a half-hearted response.

[gingersnaps1]

93. I think this is hilarious

I have a gay friend that thinks homophobia is more insidious than racism. Goes to show ya that it all depends on the lens that you are looking through.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

98. Why even compare? All forms of bigotry are deplorable.

[gingersnaps1]

101. I wasn't comparing. I was sharing a snippet of a conversation that I had with a friend

that ran along the same lines as the post I replied to.

I agree that all forms of prejudice and bigotry are deplorable.

But, I stand by the last line of my statement that people see through their own lens.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

106. No, I was speaking of Bill. He was comparing "isms." He pissed me off. I understood

what you were saying...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. I am a black American woman, too, and I respected the Clintons, but I don't appreciate

Bill in particular being too generous with his praise of McSame. I think that's the problem many of us are having with Bill specifically.

No one is suggesting that President Clinton wasn't a good president. What we have issues with Bill is the fact that he seems to be fixated on the primaries STILL and that his lukewarm support of Obama is just that. Even the pundits are talking about this tonight. Are they just 'haters' too?

[Cha]

54. Thanks Liberal Stalwart for

putting more perspective on this.

What are the pundits saying?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. Fucking Gregory spent an entire segment rehashing Bill's statements on how the conditions

of the economy, the changing demographic landscape, massive increase in Democratic registration will help Obama. But Obama himself? What about Obama himself makes him a better choice.

Eugene Robinson pointed out that Bill Clinton is a brilliant politician who is acutely aware of every statement he makes and the impact those statements will have. He said that Bill sounded more like an analyst than an endorser of Obama.

That gave that asshole Gregory an opening to discuss Palin in light of Hillary's loss. Michelle Benjamin handled it well, though. She stated that though there has been an uptick in enthusiasm for McCain because of Palin, women are not a monolith and it doesn't mean that Hillary supporters will move towards McCain or that will support her just because she's a woman.

Michelle is a conservative Republican and her statements were more enthusiastic and compelling than Bill Clinton, who claims to be a Democrat.

[Cha]

60. Thanks, I'm glad the pundits are noticing because

Bill Clinton needs to be held accountable for his words ..if he cares about instant gratification so much and not the big picture.

HIllary did not win the popular vote in the primary, Bill Clinton.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

72. EXACTLY!!

And Bill must know that the pundits will jump on his comments to keep the division within the Democratic party going.

Bottom line: Bill's statements were divisive and deliberately demoralizing. I noticed that he looked down a lot. He couldn't even look up and didn't look like he was into this conversation at all. Perhaps he's tired.

[Tutonic]

105. Yeah we're tired of him too. He needs to go out back and take

a long nap.

[gingersnaps1]

94. David Gregory is a tool

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

102. Precisely, and that's why Bill's words hurt. Bill is well aware of how the M$M jumps

at any and every opportunity to pounce on his words to imply that there is a division within the Democratic party. They love nothing more than to rehash the Democratic primaries. Bill's words do not help. Hillary lost the primaries. She lost by every metric and in every scenario...unless we assume the fallacy that no one in Detroit or Ann Arbor voted for Barack Obama in Michigan.

[ClarkUSA]

55. Cheney's biographer Stephen Hayes said on CNN today that the McCain campaigns LOVES Bill on TV....

"... and they wish he'd be on everyday." Hmmm... it's not hard to see why.

[Cha]

62. That's what some DUers were suggesting

today..just a wild guess!

[ClarkUSA]

76. Some DUers are sharp as tacks.

Yeah, we know what's up, even if Hillaryland's Apologists refuse to acknowledge it.

[dgibby]

90. Absolutely!

And the other people on that program were talking about how Clinton was good with the technical stuff, but couldn't bring himself to endorse Obama as someone who could lead because he was brilliant and competent (paraphrased). I listened to Clinton list the reasons he thought Obama would win, and it had nothing to do with Obama personally or his attributes, qualifications. No wonder the Repubs are happy-talk about damning with faint praise! If he can't do it with his whole heart, then he should just stay home. He not only isn't helping Obama, he's hurting him.:puke:

[gingersnaps1]

99. I would expect they would.

Te original poster mentioned that Bill Clinton is a diplomat. Okay, I will give that to you. I am sorry, but I feel as though Bill Clinton should be out there praising Obama. I look at Bill Clinton and I see a selfish man who sees his legacy threatened. If he helped Hillary get elected that would help to perpetuate his legacy and expand his ego another ten fold. Did you guys hear him joke that Chelsea may run in the future? This man is ridiculous. Can we say power hungry.

A lot of attention is being paid to Bill Clinton and he can help the Obama campaign a great deal. He is a former President who served during a time of a good economy. He can boost Obama. His statements do nothing nut boost himself. I am sorry, Bill Clinton is being a small person.

The sad thing is that Bill Clinton doesn't have as much to lose as I or my friends or family. This is no time for friggin' diplomacy. We need enthusiastic support.

[quickesst]

57. I'm sure you can tell.....

by many of the replies you've received, there are still plenty of DU members who are attempting to turn as many Hillary supporters away from Obama as they can. The motives are unclear. Thanks.
quickesst

[Cha]

61. I think you are disingenuous..

don't appreciate it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

79. None of what you just stated made sense. We are trying to bring them to our side.

It is Bill Clinton who won't allow the primaries to go!!

[MoonRiver]

63. Thank you for the truth, C.W.

But nothing ever changes here. :banghead:

[GoneOffShore]

64. I guess you haven't seen this yet

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/22/clinton-says-dems-shouldnt-attack-palin/

(CNN) — Bill Clinton said Monday the Democratic ticket should steer clear of launching personal attacks on Sarah Palin over her relatively thin resume, and instead acknowledge she was a "good choice" for the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket.

"Why say, ever, anything bad about a person? Why don't we like them and celebrate them and be happy for her elevation to the ticket? And just say that she was a good choice for him and we disagree with them?" said Clinton, who faced repeated charges during the primary season he was overly negative toward Obama on the campaign trail.

Bill Clinton was only one of a long line of Southerners masquerading as a Democrat.

[Ichingcarpenter]

65. Is Palin a liar? Yes....... Is McCain a liar? yes Do we like like liars and bullshiters

No.

[Spider Jerusalem]

78. Some people like Bill Clinton, apparently

:shrug:

[Ichingcarpenter]

80. No, they don't like Bill, they worship him and

ignore the last 8 years just like Bill.

Bill says we shouldn't talk bad about liars and thieves
and calls these people honorable!

He's not doing anyone any good and should shut the hell up.
Oh, BTW he will be on the Daily Show Tuesday. Can't wait for that thread.

[wyldwolf]

69. LOL!

He's correct. The only people masquerading as Democrats are in the "progressive" movement.

[Raineyb]

138. Wrong as usual

Never miss a chance to bash progressives do you? If you like Republican lite so much who don't you just vote Republican?

Regards

[Motown_Johnny]

67. Well, this old white guy disagrees with you. Should I be sick of you defending him?

[wyldwolf]

68. why not provide a few instances of such?

[Spider Jerusalem]

74. Congratulations

I get pretty sick of the way some people worship Bill Clinton, who may have been elected to two terms and had a D after his name, but who politically was to the right of Richard fucking Nixon, who intensified the war on drugs, whose administration saw hundreds of thousands of Americans imprisoned for nonviolent crimes, who touted welfare 'reform', deregulation, and the free market, who abdicated on every progressive issue, and who was too fucking stupid to not have sex with an intern, for god's sake.What exactly is so great about Bill Clinton? What did he DO? What did he accomplish? What are the long-term, lasting acheivements of his presidency?

[jonestonesusa]

89. Amen...so close to completely agree

I do think that family leave, the diplomacy on the Northern Ireland conflict and to some extent the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, budget discipline that helped to build a surplus, some of his environmental policies, and appointment of judges were the highlights of his presidency.

However, like you I despise Clinton's race-baiting, neo/non-liberalism, shilling for the corporate sector, and constant complimenting of the opposition, which has left him with fat pockets and a divided party. He lacked subtlety and judgment at many of the wrong moments. Unlike Obama, who is fairly new to the scene, Clinton was never good at building a larger movement among Democrats to increase their percentage at all governmental levels. Ethically, what can you say? He made many bad decisions in his associations that only gave fodder to the right.

If you're not a Clinton fan, as I never have been (I liked him briefly when he was pandering to liberals in the '92 campaign), you have to face down lots of accusations of "Clinton Hatred." Out of personal moral principles, I try not to hate anyone. But what's the deal with Democrats trying to force everyone to love Bill Clinton? It's creepy. Will it ever stop?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gauguin57]

86. Sorry ... but his skeezy financial activities since he left the presidency helped trash Hillary's

chances at president and VP. That, and his outbursts on the campaign trail. The pump-head thing might be to blame ... I don't know.

The article below, and other stuff I've read about Bill's financial affairs (and general increasing weirdness of temperament), have convinced me that Hillary can never be on a Democratic ticket unless she divorces that man. I was a huge Clinton supporter for a long time; but geez ... he wants his wife to be president, and yet lives his life in such a way that will prevent her from EVER being president. Or veep. He's out of control; cannot help himself. I feel sorry for Hillary.

If she were a nominee, and the Repugs and the media started looking into his finances ... well, it would be worse than the Ferraro-Zaccaro debacle of 1984. No question.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/07/clinton200807

[Vattel]

92. wow, I had heard about that article before,

but it's even stupider than I expected. Absolutely without substance. Pack-full of innuendo. The classic hit piece.

[texasleo]

88. truth

[jesus_of_suburbia]

91. This is not going to be popular on D.U. but thank you for posting. It needs to be said.

[karynnj]

96. Well, I had a problem with your mean spirited thread

mocking Kerry, when he had done nothing to deserve it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4202856#4202905

People have a right to comment on Bill Clinton's appearances - he was great at the convention - and everyone praised him. Today he was less so - and some called him out. It wasn't just here - I heard it on TV - where after playing a segment the commentary is that he is hoping for HRC in 2012 or 2016.

But, if you knock one prominent Democrat - then others have the right to comment on WJC.

[politicasista]

100. Kick

Can't recommend, but a nice post.

[Cha]

123. Fucking Bill Clinton will never be

1/2 the man Kerry is.

[JVS]

137. what a shitty assholish thread!

[faithfulcitizen]

103. good for you.

[tandot]

104. No shit. I agree with you, CatWoman.

:hi:

[Rowdyboy]

107. I've been defending Bill since he was a first term governor, Cat, but he's pushed me too far.....

this year. My partner and I both are strong Clinton defenders but he seems to think its all aabout him and it isn't anymore. I'd hoped he would come around after the convention but he seems determined to continue to nurse his dissappointment over Hillary losing. I hate it, but I've lost a great deal of my respect for the man and it hurts to my core. Its depressing.

[Metric System]

108. It's the Usual Suspects. They've been itching to stage a comeback ever since the convention and they

perceived there was an opportunity to do just that with Bill's appearance today on the View.

[joshcryer]

112. They actually tried to do it a few days ago when Bill said he thought Palin was "intriguing" or...

...something to that effect. Basically it's the same 3-4 posters whose were vile throughout the primaries and continue to be vile even with it behind them. These are people who are basically compulsive liars.

[patomime]

110. Let's talk about something nice...

I love your cats! I'm a cat person too!

We can agree on that!

I still like both the Clintons too. They have both done great work with human/human rights issues. I guess there may be hard feelings sometimes when Bill tries to make nice with the right. It may be his way of trying to come together. There are too many divisions in this country -- and maybe that's what he's trying to do.

In a campaign year, however, feelings get raw. Sometimes I would like to see a little more party loyalty myself. If you disagree with this first sentence of this paragraph, refer to paragraph 3.

(My attempt at humour).

:grouphug:

[JeffR]

111. Clinton is a complex, sometimes self-contradictory success story

meriting generous praise for some things and sharp criticism for others. I see a lot of both on DU and have for years. What I don't see is much that I would consider trashing. What I do see a lot of is dismissing any sort of criticism as trashing, and not only with regard to him, but to his wife and various other Democrats who often leave the leftist grassroots disappointed, frustrated and angry.

But I'll agree with you to the extent that there are some rote dismissals of Clinton sometimes posted here, attempting - in much the same way the GOP does - to lay every chicken that's recently come home to roost at the feet of a guy who hasn't been President for eight wearying years.

I guess I really wish we could all stop treating these people like good guys or bad guys in some cheesy Western. It's always more complicated than that, and political junkies, more than anyone, need to try to see things in three dimensions. That goes for Clinton's fans and detractors alike, IMHO.

edit - I type like Ronald Reagan...

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

115. Best post in the thread.

[Arugula Latte]

113. That's funny, I get so sick of Bill Clinton.

[Beacool]

116. So do I.

Ditto for the nasty way that Hillary was treated over here too. That's why I barely come anymore, nothing has changed. It's always a good day to hate on a Clinton, same old.....

[jonestonesusa]

133. Dare to criticize a Clinton = hatred

You're right, nothiing has changed since the primary for some posters here.

[Beacool]

147. Dare to criticize Obama = Banishment

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

118. to me his lack of judgment in the genocide in rwanda,

monica, and welfare reform has diminished his stature.

[DiamondKrosse]

119. yes because the Republicans in Congress

after the Somalia mess, which I'll add Clinton inherited from Bush I, were really gonna let him take action in Rwanda? Of course not, especially during 1994, the year of the mid term elections. Welfare reform was necessary. He needed to end welfare as we knew it in order to make it a second chance, not a way of life. In case you didn't know, welfare is in large part why we lost 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, and 1988.

[rvablue]

121. Thanks for saying so........

Will Democrats ever, ever, ever learn?
We are 6 weeks before THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIVES and the first three pages of DU is filled with posts hating on Bill Clinton, the only two term Democratic president we've had in the past 60 years?
Are our memories so short, that despite some things you might not have like, our collective lives were all better under his administration.
Let's get back to lashing out at McCain and let this freakin' Clinton thing drop!

[Tektonik]

122. K&R

[cboy4]

125. It's the same ol usual suspects doing the trashing ... the same

ones who wanted to burn Hillary at the stake during the primaries. :puke:

[OakCliffDem]

126. K & R

[BklynChick]

130. I'm just sick of him.

[sohndrsmith]

131. I respect your feelings, CatWoman,but I have questions, too...

I think it might be reasonable to say that most Democrats appreciate Bill Clinton's talent and strength as a politician, whether we agree with his positions or not. He is a consummate, tireless campaigner, and he knows how to reach people in all sectors.

What bothers me about President Clinton is his ambivalence. And it bothers me specifically because I know what he is capable of. If he was truly interested in backing Obama, he would be making 5 campaign stops a day (or more), often in as many states.

His indifference, for me, is not diplomatic. I find it petty and churlish. Bill Clinton knows that he could move mountains for Obama, and - yes - it is his choice to do so or not - but I don't like what I see in the choice he has made.

Clinton is an extremely adept and knowledgeable politician, and he is well aware of what the import of his decisions are. I don't believe he has any interest in doing more than what is minimally expected of him concerning Obama, and I think it is a deliberate choice. What I don't know is why he's chosen to go this route.

[Owl]

136. Excellent perspective sohndrsmith.

[Balderdash]

139. Bill Clinton wasn't stumping when he was on

the view. He won't start actual campaigning until October, a deal that we learned about last week and deal that was made with Barak Obama. As far as I'm concerned we need more calm reassuring folks like Barak and Bill Clinton. The name calling and in your face crap doesn't work when you're trying to come off as "Presidential." I think Baraks way is best and Bill is following that way. McCain be all about bluster and hysterics while our guys and gals can be the statesmen/women.

[sohndrsmith]

150. I couldn't agree with you more... to a point : )

You're right - the LAST thing we need is hysterical bluster coming from "our side" But... that's not what I meant (I'm a little new at this - I think this is my third or so post).

There is a HUGE difference between campaigning with passion and conviction - and being a bullet head, with the in-your-face gutter stuff. Bill Clinton can do both... (I guess unfortunately).

But what I am remembering so vividly was his almost inhuman energy when he was campaigning for Sen. Clinton on all those back porches, in all those states - every day. He was an advocate not only for the candidate, but he was an advocate for the country, and he held that role tirelessly. The fiery, passionate, confident voice that can reach certain sectors better than *anyone* - that's the Bill Clinton who's missing.

Imagine... just imagine... if he felt the same sense of purpose for the future of this country in his support for Sen. Obama. Perhaps he does. I can't think of any good or plausible reason to hold off until October. It's not like he'll get tired out. The man is relentless. If he isn't indifferent, that is.
Bill Clinton is NOT doing the one thing he does better than most politicians, and he is not unaware of the impact he could be making - and isn't. That... is what troubles me.

And I doubly agree with you on the absolutely amazing skill with which Obama has organized, planned, presented and won... even when we are all wringing our hands with worry, "Oh, he should be doing this and saying that, and... yada yada..." - and he is always not just one, but 12 steps ahead of all of us. His stunning understanding of the short-term, long-term, contingencies and preparation necessary for all of them extremely well-thought-out implementation is a huge strength, a lot of people haven't picked up on that yet.

Obama's composure and even-tempered passion is exactly what I need to hear, and I don't think I'm alone. Histrionics do nothing confirm it is nothing but role-playing - an act. Bells and whistles aren't needed when the design and integrity of the message are superb.

.... um... okay - I went off on a tear, here, sorry. I should streamline this but I have to walk the dog before he busts a gut.

Dog before dogma.

[blm]

143. It's plain if you watched him undermine 2000 and 04. Then it was Hillary2008. Now, it's Hillary2012.

.

[ShortnFiery]

140. No, Bill Clinton is "trashing himself" better than anyone else can. No Country for bitter old men?

:shrug:

[GeorgeGist]

142. He's a schmoozer's ...

schmoozer.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

145. Pay some sort of

fucking attention to what he is doing to assist the Republican party win this election.

He has lost his marbles.

And I liked him too... He is fucking us over... get it?

he is the one trashing our candidate. He loves McCain... or haven't you heard?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

146. Bill's a washed-up has-been hack.

As an African American woman, deal with it.

[Romulox]

149. I'm sick of NAFTA and "Free Trade" with China, so we're even. nt

[book_worm]

151. I think a lot of people here believe that Clinton goes out of his way to praise McCain while his

comments on Obama are at best mild.

[question everything]

152. Well said. Bill Clinton, however, will never be in sync

with the majority of DUers.

He is, after all, a centrist - the only way to win elections in this country.

And he says what he thinks. Earlier on Larry King he said that one does not need to bash the opponent to win the elections. Especially when you want to attract the independents and some Republicans.

While on DU, often it is the mirror image of freeperland. Seeing the world like Bush: you are either with us or against us.