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You know who you are. You are LYING to US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You dirty, corrupt SOBs!

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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:54 AM
Original message
You know who you are. You are LYING to US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You dirty, corrupt SOBs!
How can Obama raise 66 million dollars in August, gain another 500,000 donors and have over 80 thousand people show up at his Denver speech and be tied with a corrupt politician who can't even get 5000 people to hear him speak, who can't raise money on his own and has to lie about the crowd sizes to create perception that he's doing well enough to be considered a presidential hopeful?

80 percent of this country believes that this country is going in the wrong direction and I'm supposed to believe that McCain who votes with Bush 90 percent of the times is tied with Obama?

COME ON!

All indications are that Dems will gain more seats in the House and the Senate giving the Dems an overwhelming majority to push their agenda but Obama who is a popular Democrat who can get disaffected Republicans and Independents to vote for the Democratic ticket may not get to the white house because he's tied with a Republican who was responsible for enabling Bush?

COME ON!

The Democrats have registered 11,000,000 more Democrats than the Republicans and I'm supposed to believe that Obama and McCain are tied?

COME ON!

McCain picks a woman to be his running mate (for political reasons) who has absolutely no foreign policy experience (a credential he ripped Obama for), who is as corrupt as he is and is just a heartbeat away from the presidency and he and Obama are tied?

COME ON!

All together!

Chuck Todd is LYING!
MSNBC is LYING!
CNN is LYING!
ABC is LYING!
CBS is LYING!
Wallstreet Journal is LYING!
USA Today is LYING!

And the polls...?

GALLUP IS LYING!
RASMUSSEN IS LYING!

THERE IS NO TIE! This is a fabrication. This is an illusion. This is a fairytale.

The Media and the Polls they road in on are FULL of SHIT! They want you to believe the illogical. It's a LIE. How can they get away with THIS LIE?

Obama and McCain are NOT TIED! Good commonsense defies the logic of the polls. The media who sponsors these polls is holding these polls up as a way of pushing their own agenda. People should do one thing consistently. Write or call the media outlets to tell them that you aren't gullible, that you know that they are trying to sway opinion and possibly the election.

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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for saying what I've been thinking
Honestly, it looks to me as though the MSM is looking to the Good Witch Sarah to blink away that nasty black man.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
67. REPUBLICANS ARE GONNA STEAL IT
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stranger81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
91. exactly . . . . they're just softening us up to accept the big blow [eom]
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #67
96. The Republicans know exactly what they're doing....
If they can keep the polls looking close, when they go to rig the election, it'll not be so obvious.

I have never answered a poll - do you know anyone who has? (if they even really ever bothered to call someone, they probably only get through answering machines, voicemail and caller ID blocking to reach old Republican shut-ins who never hear from their family who will talk to ANYone on the phone). The only poll is on Election Day.

Keep moving forward, don't look back - that's how Cavic lost to Michael Phelps in the Olympics - he turned to look and lost by 1/100th of a second.

KEEP SWIMMING PEOPLE!!!
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But.... Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #96
119. Dead straight...
:bounce:
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alllyingwhores Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #96
127. DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER...
Do we actually think the corporate media controlled by the corporate overlords would rig the poles so that when they steal an insane percentage of votes on election day, no one will be surprised? No...really? NO FUCKING SHIT!

WE ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DOOMED...unless for some bizarre reason, they completely screw up and can't steal enough votes...we can always HOPE.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #127
141. We can also take to the streets.
Christ on a harley,

The Ukrainians staged a country wide shut down; the orange revolution.

We need to be prepared to do the same or we need to be prepared to live with the result. So when the repubs try to swarm an election recount we need to out swarm them and push their asses somewhere else. When they try to rig the supreme court we need to plug the streets so nothing gets done around the court and the judges can't leave. When the cops and national guard are pulled in we have to convince them to support their neighbors rather than their overlords. Or we need to make sure that they spend months getting us moved. Everyone should buy a set of handcuffs and throw away the keys and then fill the keyhole with epoxy so they can't be opened and then chain themselves together.

We must resist.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #141
152. My Fondest, Dearest Hope
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 08:54 PM by NBachers
should this happen, is that the hate radio stations and staff are singled out for immediate retaliation.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M

Not. This. Time.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #141
185. I'm with you wolfgangmo
We march on Washington and live there until we get a fair re-count or re-vote. Whatever it takes.

By the way Welcome to DU!
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AllHereTruth Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #141
196. I will not live in an America with McCain as president.
Action must be taken.
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #196
211. I've heard those rash words as far back as 2000.
Edited on Tue Sep-16-08 08:58 AM by Kierkegaard
But this time, I'm in total agreement. The state of this once great nation is such that I can't bear to remain here and watch its' ultimate demise under another vacuous puppet whose sole purpose is to be the clown that entertains the masses, while his masters busy themselves behind the scenes, plotting and carrying out the gutting of our democracy.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #127
164. In spite of their best efforts, they couldn't steal enough seats in 2006.
That should give you a glimmer of hope. Although they did manage to steal a few of them--just not enough to keep their majority.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #127
215. I like to use the Carolina Rig when I rig my pole for catfishing.
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #96
193. Almost half the houses in my neighborhood have an Obama sign!
:bounce: :bounce: I'm just sayin!!!


But the rest of the houses could be filled with silent pigs..
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #193
201. !! that was meant for the original thread, I mean!!!
:blush: I was half asleep
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #193
218. Here in DeLay land I've seen Obama signs and bumper stickers for months
Last week I saw one McCain bumper sticker. One.
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99 Percent Sure Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #67
143. "All I know is first you've got to get mad. You've got to say:
"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going
to take this any more. I'm a
human being, goddammit. My life
has value." So I want you to
get up now. I want you to get
out of your chairs and go to
the window. Right now. I want
you to go to the window, open
it, and stick your head out
and yell. I want you to yell:
"I'm mad as hell and I'm not
going to take this any more!"
Peter Finch as Howard Beale in the 1976 movie, Network

"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more!"

They'll steal it if we let them, but I don't plan to let them - do you? Making defeatist predictions despite what the author said doesn't help at all, and only shows how messed up in the head some progressives are; the repugs did great at getting inside some people's heads and living rent-free, but they didn't get inside mine, and apparently not the author's. Speak for yourself - you're preparing to roll over and play dead and let them win, but the majority of us are not. The majority of us are mad as hell and we're not taking this anymore.

If you think you are beaten, you are, but I'm not and obviously the author isn't and there are millions of others out here who aren't. What's more, Obama isn't running a defeatist campaign and Biden isn't talking defeatist. Since the election hasn't even happened yet - there are 50 days left until November 4 - I don't see how anyone can predict that "they're going to steal it" and "they're preparing us so they can steal it." I'll say it again, it's not happening again on my watch.
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #143
147. Great post and welcome to DU!
:hi:
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99 Percent Sure Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #147
153. Thank you!
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #143
171. Thank you for the rallying cry. We will NOT let them get away with it this time.
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 11:08 PM by eowyn_of_rohan
CNN shows a map of the U.S.A. today - the states divided into red and blue. Funny thing - it appeared only 7 of the states were colored in blue. They want us to believe ONLY SEVEN STATES OUT OF FIFTY ARE BLUE! The rest they show as either red, "maybe" red or blue, or "could go either way". After 8 years of Americans watching our country and our lives being destroyed under the bu$h regime? Does ANYONE believe this? I think not. They have gone too far, and are too obvious this time. They CANNOT get away with it.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #171
187. I noticed that MSNBC has added a new color to their maps
It looks green. It was never there before but now they have included it. And surprise, surprise, surprise, Obama has suddenly lost electoral votes from states that use to lean to him. Interesting how they had to add a new color to make it look like Obama was falling behind.

Corporate media covering for the coming theft of the election.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #187
208. They say those are "swing states" - 9 of them this time! MORE LIES
And they show 15 "leaning" states- pale blue and pink. Surprise, surprise. Those may "swing" too.

I just do not believe this map at all.

How can Louisiana be leaning red, and Mississippi and Alabama be SOLID RED, despite Hurricane Katrina,and their large disenfrachised African American populations?

And Minnesota - a solid true blue Democratic state for many decades. I know Minnesota and I can NOT believe they are a swing state, as the evil, lying MSM is telling us (and do Minnesotans believe this?!)

And Kansas, Nebraska, Ohio, Michigan, Missouri, Dakotas, New Hampshire, etc., Some of these used to be Democratic states. When did you turn? Did you REALLY turn? After what Caligula II and his mob have done to our country and your lives, at some point during these past 8 years, haven't you grown disillusioned with them and turned against their lies and false promises?

Fundamental Christians: HAven't you witnessed the immoral acts of the GOP slime these past years, and awakened to the fact they do NOT share your purported "family values" but instead have been lying to you and using you?

THERE IS NO TIE! This is a fabrication. This is an illusion. This is all a lie and we are not going to take it anymore!

We need to spread this rallying cry far and wide... to real people! Not just online. Not just to the MSM where most of our comments will go into their black hole.

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theodosis2 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #143
222. I ABSOFUCKINLUTELY AGREE
Network-one of my favorite movies
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #143
231. Great post. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more!"
Network- I'm Mad as Hell

Welcome to DU

I've never seen the movie but I found the clip on youtube.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
154. Count ME among the suspicious as well.
The "liberal media" has a self-serving agenda. I know that folks will groan at the mention of Edwards here, but what the HELL was the ignoring of his SECOND-PLACE win in Iowa??? The needia wanted a race between a black and a woman. SURELY, that would be good for ratings! I think these poll ANALysts ought to poll themselves as to their impartiality and objectivity. :puke:
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MinneapolisMatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for articulating...
...exactly how I feel.

K&R.
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amb123 Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. The only Media that is NOT corrupt & on McCain's side
is the Internet and they're iffy at best. Trust no one in the media. Ever.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. A double AMEN!
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. which is why they want to tighten the controls on the 'net.
can't have the truth out there, can they? :eyes:
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. They're calling Pennsylvania within a few percentage points...
... I drive around the state a LOT. All I see is Obama bumper stickers and Obama yard signs. By a margin of about 30 to 1 over McCain.

There is NO TIE. We're going to smash the repugs.

That being said, KEEP CANVASSING! KEEP PHONEBANKING! KEEP DONATING!!! :bounce:

GOBAMA! :woohoo:
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Keep telling the media to stop skewing the election with polls
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
210. They won't listen! They are doing it intentionally. We need this yelled directly to the people
it needs to be incorporated into political rallies, and shouted through bullhorns at protests. Spelled out on banners hung from overpasses of busy streets. Printed up on fliers and passed out on street corners, at festivals and farmers markets
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
190. I live in the heart of Red country.
Rednecks and poor folks who are easily conned. Religious idiots who think a fetus has more of a right to life than a mother. Yet I have NOT seen one single McCain yard sign, or bumper sticker nada, nothing, zilch. This time during the 2004 election, bush and W signs and stickers were everywhere. People posted them on their barns, outhouses and tool sheds. They mysteriously disappeared about three years ago and McCain signs have NOT replaced them.

If in the heart of red country they aren't supporting McInsane, then how in the world is he tied with Obama? It's all a fake to steal our votes.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #190
212. This is wonderful to read. These people must BELIEVE that nobody is riding the big, red BANDWAGON
then their collective voice must somehow be heard - We are NOT a Mcsame-voting red state , despite the MSM propaganda.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
194. Kerry signs were 50:1 over Bush
here is S.E. Ohio in 2004. It was unreal. I was positive Kerry would win Ohio. Remember, S.E. Ohio is traditionally foolish in their presidential selection. But they cheated. And they will cheat again. Because they are not patriots as they would have us believe. They are scoundrels of the worst kind.
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Barb in Atl Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #194
219. Kerry DID win Ohio in 2004
But the various shenanigans by the republican secretary of state, ken blackwell (OH chair of bush/cheney04) made sure that strong democratic districts didn't get enough machines, changed the rules on provisional ballots and other bs.

Kerry wuz robbed (as were we all).

Here in GA we have advance voting starting next week and then 10/27 - 10/31, there's early voting. Find out when early voting happens in OH (assuming it does), work with the Obama campaign there to get out the vote before election day (to lessen the chance of more machine machinations...hopefully).

Just like Obama won the overall primary (with a far stronger opponent in Hillary), that same campaign organization can take the general election.

We just need you to help.

(Disclaimer: I'm doing my part in Clayton County, GA. If you've got time and want to take part send me a message and I'll connect you with the campaign)
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mlevans Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
206. Keep canvassing, et cetera.
Agreed. McCain has not given up on the Keystone State; NPR this morning said he is outspending Obama here by several million dollars worth of media buys, primarily in Philly and Pittsburgh. Got to get the message out to the independents too, there are too many of them who haven't yet realized that McCain the Maverick no longer exists.
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. They have to keep the polls close.
Otherwise, when they steal the election it will be to obvious. It's kind of like the big dustup after the last election where they were saying the exit polls were all wrong. The exit polls were right, but the vote counts weren't.

There are lots of die-hard rethugs out there, religious zealots & greedy rich folks. Add those that don't pay attention & the racists & it might be tighter than it should be in reality, but I still believe, like you, that Obama is winning. MY state should turn blue, but my state has some serious election fraud issues.

What can we do?
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. I say let the media know that you don't buy it... it's the first line
When people start to rail against the media they lose money. You're right about the exit polls. I knew when they said the exit polls were off that the election had been stolen. Create perception that this is a close election so that this election is ripe for stealing. If most people know this and articulate it to the media then when you don't have to trust the media then you go to other alternative forms of news and what happens to traditional media? They lose.

Tell them that you don't trust them to tell the truth.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
44. You ask, "What can we do?" Here's what
Go to the website for STEALING AMERICA: Vote By Vote. After you watch the movie trailer if you want to, click on TAKE ACTION. There's tons of important stuff there that you can do. Please join in the efforts already underway to stop another stolen election!

Also check where theater screenings of this new film are happening. It's showing now in San Francisco, Berkeley and San Jose, through Thursday. Upcoming cities are listed at the website. Usually at the weekend evening showings guest speakers lead discussions and answer questions after the film. I just led two a few days ago. People care. They need to know what to do. That's why this website exists. Use it!
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
108. Thank you
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #108
176. You're welcome.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
107. Makes me sick to my stomach.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. The M$M beastie always reaps more profits with a GOP Executive Branch. They breed controversy
because with "instability" and the country SPLIT, the M$M and the Government Contractors can continue to suck all OUR TAX DOLLARS out of "the people's pockets." We're too concerned about cultural issues to watch some, on both sides of the aisle, STEAL our hard earned money while they enjoy SOCIALIZED health care and pension plans. :grr:
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, it is a manufactured lie.
The media are playing us all for suckers, and Gallup, and Rasmussen are the pawns. These polls are complete bullshit, and anyone with half a brain can figure that out. The media is using manufactured "polls" to generate ratings. It's disgusting that none of them are concerned with the truth. This country is so deep in corruption, media sensationalism, and fascism that it's on the verge of imploding.

Something is happening that we need to start really paying attention to. Karma has it out for us kids. I witnessed it first hand yesterday when a FUCKING HURRICANE hit central Ohio. 1,497,610 people are without electricity right now as a result of yesterdays sustained equivalent of a F1 tornado. The next time some fucker tells you that global warming is a myth, punch the shit out of them. No intelligent person believes that. Yet, a vapid moron parading around as a vice presidential candidate would have you believe it. Jesus rode on the back of a dinosaur. Women should be forced to have a baby resulting from a rape. Half the country believes this phony, and the dumb ass grandpa, Reagan wannabe. If that is true, I have completely lost faith in this nation. Perhaps God should wash us off of the map for good.

Yeah, the polls are "tied" my ass.
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Hey! Ike hit Northeastern Ohio too!
Driving home from dinner at my inlaws last night we had a century old tree fall about 5 feet in front of our car! I live in what we call "the forest" basically along the metropark & our yard is a horrible mess. A beautiful 45 year old apple tree in my yard split in half & fell. Many trees down & I'm sure the wind gusts were upwards of 50 mph easily. Literally dodging branches driving home. Scary stuff! My power stayed on with a few flickers, but cable has been down all night. I hope you & yours are all okay!
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. We're in rough shape.
Two home near my house smashed by falling trees. No power for 7 days they are predicting. No generators to be bought anywhere. It pretty much sucks, but there's no rain forecast.
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I'm sorry to hear that.
My cable is still down so you're my source of news on this. I hope they get your power fixed sooner than expected. It's a challenge with so many trees down. Are your neighbors okay?

We collected flashlights & hung out in our lower level until the storm passed. We have tons of tall trees around the house & I was afraid we might get hit. We were lucky & we're counting our blessings here.

On the lighter side, my SIL met her now husband during a long blackout. He was the only guy in the neighborhood with a generator!

I hope your situation improves soon! :hug:
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Thanks, likewise. the neighbors were just shaken, but not hurt.
I'm hoping the power comes back soon...
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Oops!
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 01:03 PM by OHDEM
Duplicate. Sorry.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. We hope anyone caught in Ike will soon be okay...
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
137. thank you for your well-expressed anger
:thumbsup:

It helps me deal with this poll BS.

:grouphug:

Keep working people.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
155. Ike hit the Ozarks hard too
Forty mph + winds and lots of rain. Tons of trees down and heavy flash flooding. I think everyone was caught off guard. The emergency services were overwhelmed.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R...
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 10:24 AM by demdog78
Expressed perfectly. WE know what's going on.
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SeeHopeWin Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. I suggest you correct what you are saying!!!
McSame gets less than 3000 in crowds, not 5000!
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Um... less than 5000... less than 3000...
Whatever, either way it's far less than 20,000. How about we focus on the greater point of the OP.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. of course the media is lying, they want a horse race
and the ratings of course, and to spew more lies to the American people.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. As Katy Couric said...
"How can we make it more dramatic?"

Right?

Disgusting!
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. As Jane Swift said, Obama supporters are all lazy youths who probably aren't even registered to vote
(spoken on February 5th 2008)
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. We'll all show her but we have to let the media know we're not fooled
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
111. that's like who said it... said that jon stewarts audience were all
slackers or something.
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lakercub Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
123. Billo said that
and then the poll came out showing that Daily Show viewers were much more informed than Fox viewers. At least I trust that poll.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. Not even Palin could boost McCain's crowds... Btw: McCain was anointed by Bush
McCain stayed in because he inherited the GOP presidential slot. What a joke.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
17. "Likely" voters
my ass. :eyes:
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The Liberal Thinker Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. There's no conspiracy, but...
The pollsters are using really bad methodology.

Firstly, they're failing to contact voters who use cell phones, which means that about a third of voters under the age of 30 are not contacted. Obviously, this is going to skew the results.

Secondly, they're weighting for Party ID, but they're not weighting properly --- the extended primary campaign brought millions of new Democrats into the fold. The pollsters are not taking this into account when determining how many Republicans/Democrats/Independents they will call up.

Finally, polls tell us nothing about field organization. What really matters is if you can get your people to the voting booth on election day. We have an immense ground organization, vast voter contact information, and multitudes of volunteers working day and night so Barack Obama can be elected. McCain just woke up to this fact and is scrambling to get something together.

And don't forget how unreliable polls in themselves can be -- remember the NH primary? Obama was supposed to win that. He didn't. Remember the SC primary? That was supposed to be a close one. It wasn't.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. If you're a news organization charged with giving us the news... then
shouldn't your stats be accurate?
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The Liberal Thinker Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Definitely.
That's why I don't trust polls.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
117. The stats are accurate, so far as they can be
Liberal Thinker left out two other problems that are skewing the polls toward McCain: Caller ID, and using answering machines to screen calls. I think a lot of people who would vote for Senator Obama are using at least one, if not both. Ewwww! Who wants to talk to a pollster?

You know the answer: Republicans. Frankly, I'm surprised the race is this close.

November will be a different story: the ballot box doesn't care if you communicate via cell phone, landline, two tin cans with string between them, mail, personal visits, semaphore or carrier pigeons.

Starting the day after the election, expect some serious debate on the topic of how the polls came out so wrong. The only thing Diebolding will be able to do, is make McCain's results look less like Dubya's popularity rating.
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The Liberal Thinker Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #117
213. I hope you're right, but
Why do you believe people who use Caller ID and use answering machines to screen calls would be more likely to vote Democratic?
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
157. thanks for that declaration.
how the fuck do you know "there's no conspiracy". how do you know everything you listed is not planned? really, how can you make such a declarative statement? at best, you THINK there is no conspiracy. get it?
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The Liberal Thinker Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #157
167. Because I find it utterly ridiculous to think...
Every single polling agency, news organization, and media outlet are in on some back-door conspiracy, the Democrats have no idea, and the only ones who know the truth are those posting on DU.

My question is, how do YOU know there is a conspiracy? Innocent until proven guilty, my friend.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #167
198. again, you don't KNOW. just admit the truth. nt
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #167
203. Why do you think that's ridiculous, The Liberal Thinker?
Your post is good and very thorough but if you refuse to believe every polling agency, news organization and media outlet isn't in cahoots with one another to dumb-down the American people by any means possible, then we're still the American Sheeple.

Every organization you've listed are corporations. The Gallup's president has openly said that he gives exclusively to the Republican party and Bush (this was asked in 2004).

Nielsen, from whom we're given viewership ratings, is made up of many corporations but the one that stands out is The Carlyle Group, Poppa Bush's company. Aren't they the ones that reported that McCain beat Obama's viewership by 2+ million?

How one looks is 70% of one's perception.

It's a public secret that the elite and American aristocracy truly believe that We the People are too dumb, too lazy, too uneducated to run our own lives let alone the country.

Arnold Schwarzenegger himself said as much in an older video of him smoking a fat cigar in some hot tub, smirking arrogantly that the people with no money are failures, therefore how can they be trusted to run government?

I believe, however, that the fascism building up in this country isn't necessarily Repub or Democratic but both. Take into account that the only people who become Pres come from Ivy League Universities. Universities beyond the average person in this country.

Whether we like it or not, we need to open our eyes WIDE and to examine how our system of propaganda has been working against us, rather than for us, and that means we can't brush off that the conspiracy to dumb-down the sheeple so only the privileged and elite in this country, behind their new estates (corporations) have a vested interest in ensuring we stay dumbed-down.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. 66 million dollars says a whole hell of a freakin lot to me, VERY VERY encouraging
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. exactly.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
204. $66 Million Dollars in ONE MONTH tells me more than corporate owned polls. eom
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. Who is going to stop them? Our country has been breached.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. we the people should stop them...
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Left Brain Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
51. Well, that would be wonderful,
but we've had 8 years to do it, and what have we accomplished? We STILL use Diebold voting machines. We STILL don't have a paper trail for voting verification.

My feeling is that they tell us this stuff not to keep it a "horse race," but to prepare us for when they steal it a third time. MSNBC is currently touting that the "Palin bounce" (Palin, the woman who is NOT running for PRESIDENT)has "erode(ed) Obama's electoral map advantage" and that "Florida (is) now leaning toward McCain." (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/15/13981... )

All that says to me is that the BFEE has found a way to fix it yet again.
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
101. YOU KNOW IM PRETTY SURE THEY DID THIS SAME THING AS FAR BACK
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 04:34 PM by ann_american2004
AS I CAN REMEMBER. PRETTY SURE THEY SAID CARTER VS REAGAN WOULD BE CLOSE. AND PRETTY SURE THEY SAID GEORGE SR. VS CLINTON WOULD BE CLOSE. I MIGHT BE WRONG. THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT I REMEMBER BOTH OF THOSE ELECTIONS AS SORT OF A - WOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE SUCH A LANDSLIDE.

oops sorry for the caps. not yelling. one thing though is I agree that the reasons for the media doing this have changed slightly or rather they've added another purpose. One is to keep people tuned in. and the other is to start preparing us for another stolen election. I've gone through 2 in a row. I dont need a third to say enough is enough. Last time we protested and it got pretty good coverage from the media, of course they showed some of it (not all) for the conflict. This time might be different.

I dont know about you all but I have been thinking a lot about Rosa Parks. When she was arrested for sitting in the front of the bus, people protested and stood beside her. They also refused to ride the bus. I dont know about you but I think this year if they steal the election AGAIN I am going to be just so depressed and disheartened, you know I think I might stay at home for at least a week. Yup it will take me probably longer than that. And you know I dont think I'll be eating much. I wont be going out to eat. I have enough in my pantry to keep me set. And then after that is gone, maybe I'll just go on a hunger strike. Dont think I am going to go to any movies. Not going to keep my cable tv. I'll be too down. Certainly wont do any shopping at the mall or anywhere else. Wont need to fill my tank up with gas. Nope. Since I will be so upset and depressed about how someone didnt count my vote properly. I think I am going to be just sitting and thinking. Sitting down. I might sit down by a state capital. they have nice shade. But I am going to sit and think about how fucking nuts it is that my vote wasnt counted AGAIN. How my rights were violated AGAIN. Yup I am pretty sure that is what I am going to do for as long as I can do it. And I wonder how many other democrats and independents and libertarians feel the same way?

If they steal the election again:
Im going to sit
That's it.
I will raise my hands to heaven
I will protest
and sit.

Maybe the whole world will sit with me.
I wonder how the media will cover that?
Maybe we should tell them in advance.



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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #101
144. I'm with you.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
27. K+R
If we've learned nothing else we should know we can trust nothing from the corporate message centers.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
28. Boycotts are good but it isn't enough. Understand this... YOU...
have to tell the media that you are on to their charade. Tell them that you know they are trying to skew the election by creating perception so that Cronies can steal this election from the people. They don't want people to have the power. These are insecure power hungry people. Letting the media know that you won't be had and that if this happens the media will pay the price with viewership is key.
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OHDEM Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. K & R
n/t
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. Gallup is a fraud helping out McCain. WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. K &R my friend
From your mouth to god's ear..

It's like Jon Stewart said, "Do they think that We're Retarded?"

It is time to create a boycott site with millions of signatures and polling oversight.. The Kos Polling is a start..

THANK YOU for saying what we are ALL Thinking.. It is NO accident either..
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You're welcome and your idea is a good one. A site should go to boycott
irresponsibility in media and politics. Everyone is breaking the law and doing creepy unethical things and no one is being held to account.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is starting to look creepy... MSNBC all smiles and these polls... all lies...
I see the media trying to hand McCain the election by filling their news with McCain and Palin getting a bounce, getting the white women vote. These scumbags are trying to create the perception again of a tight race...

People have to write the media and tell them... They are lying. Write! Phone! Visit!
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. hold on to this list and e-mail away
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. Contact these lying POS
They are setting the stage for another stolen election.


MSNBC, Amy Robach, world@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Bob Kur, robert.kur@nbc.com
MSNBC, Chris Jansing, world@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Chris Matthews, hardball@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Contessa Brewer, world@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Countdown with Keith Olbermann, countdown@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Dan Abrams, abramsreport@msnbc.com
MSNBC, David Gregory (Chief White House Correspondent), David.Gregory@nbc.com
MSNBC, David Schuster, dshuster@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Deborah Norville, norville@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Deborah Norville, norville@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Dennis Sullivan (Executive Editor - Campaign Coverage), dennis.sullivan@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Don Imus, imus@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Don Imus, imus@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Hardball with Chris Matthews, hardball@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Imus in the Morning, Imus@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Joe Scarborough, joe@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Joe Trippi, jtrippi@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Keith Olbermann, countdown@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Lester Holt Live, Lesterholt@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Lester Holt, lester.holt@msnbc.com
MSNBC, MSNBC Investigates, msnbcinvestigates@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Randy Meier, world@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Richard Kaplan (President), feedback@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Ron Reagan, rreagan@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Scarborough Country, joe@msnbc.com
MSNBC, The Abrams Report, abramsreport@msnbc.com
MSNBC, Viewer Services, viewerservices@msnbc.com

CNN Headline News, Judy Fortin comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?21
CNN Headline News, Kathleen Kennedy comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?24
CNN Headline News, Linda Stouffer comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?75
CNN Headline News, Mike Galanos comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?28
CNN Headline News, News Segment Comments, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5c.html?4
CNN Headline News, Renay San Miguel comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?23
CNN Headline News, Report Errors, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form6a.html?3
CNN Headline News, Robin Meade comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?20
CNN Headline News, Rudi Bakhtiar comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?27
CNN Headline News, Sophia Choi comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?25
CNN Headline News, Stephen Frazier comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?26
CNN Headline News, Thomas Roberts comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4b.html?22

CNN, Aaron Brown, aaron.brown@turner.com (Editor's note: Aaron Brown is no longer with CNN.)
CNN, Aaron Brown, comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?3
CNN, America Votes 2004 comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?21
CNN, American Morning, am@cnn.com
CNN, Anderson Cooper 360, 360@cnn.com
CNN, Anderson Cooper comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?5
CNN, Andrea Koppel, andrea.koppel@turner.com
CNN, Bill Hemmer comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?10
CNN, Bill Schneider, bill.schneider@turner.com
CNN, Bruce Morton, bruce.morton@turner.com
CNN, Candy Crowley, candy.crowley@turner.com
CNN, Carlos Watson comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?81
CNN, Carol Costello comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?6
CNN, Carol Lin, carol.lin@turner.com
CNN, Christiane Amanpour comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?1
CNN, Crossfire, crossfire@cnn.com
CNN, Daryn Kagan comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?11
CNN, Daryn Kagan, daryn.kagan@turner.com
CNN, David Ensor, david.ensor@turner.com
CNN, Daybreak, daybreak@cnn.com
CNN, Fredricka Whitfield comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?17
CNN, Heidi Collins comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?4
CNN, Howard Kurtz, kurtzh@washpost.com
CNN, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?39
CNN, In The Money, inthemoney@cnn.com
CNN, Inside Politics, insidepoliticts@cnn.com
CNN, James Carville, crossfire@cnn.com
CNN, Jeanne Meserve, jeanne.meserve@turner.com
CNN, Jeff Greenfield comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?8
CNN, Jeff Greenfield, jeff.greenfield@cnn.com
CNN, Jim Walton (President of CNN News Group), jim.walton@turner.com
CNN, Judy Woodruff comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?18
CNN, Judy Woodruff, deirdre.walsh@turner.com
CNN, Kelly Wallace, kelly.wallace@turner.com
CNN, Kyra Phillips comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?16
CNN, Kyra Phillips, kyra.phillips@turner.com
CNN, Larry King comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?73
CNN, Live At CNN, live@cnn.com
CNN, Live From, livefrom@cnn.com
CNN, Live Today, livetoday@cnn.com
CNN, Lou Dobbs comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?7
CNN, Lou Dobbs, lou.dobbs@turner.com
CNN, Lou Dobbs, loudobbs@cnn.com
CNN, Miles O'Brien comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?14
CNN, Miles O'Brien, miles.obrien@turner.com
CNN, Moneyline, moneyline@cnn.com
CNN, news tips, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form11.html?1
CNN, Newsnight, newsnight@cnn.com
CNN, other anchor/reporter comments, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4a.html?1
CNN, Paul Begala, crossfire@cnn.com
CNN, Paula Zahn comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?19
CNN, Paula Zahn Now, paulazahnnow@cnn.com
CNN, Paula Zahn, paula.zahn@turner.com
CNN, Paula Zahn, paulazahn@cnn.com
CNN, report errors, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form6a.html?2
CNN, Rick Davis (Executive Vice President - CNN News Standards and Practices), rick.davis@turner.com
CNN, Robert Novak, robert.novak@turner.com
CNN, Soledad O'Brien comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?15
CNN, Tom Hannon (Political Director), tom.hannon@cnn.com
CNN, Tucker Carlson, crossfire@cnn.com
CNN, War in Iraq comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?19
CNN, Weekend American Morning, wam@cnn.com
CNN, Wolf Blitzer comment, http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?2
CNN, Wolf Blitzer, wolf@cnn.com
CNN, Wolf Blitzer, wolf@cnn.com

Some of these are out of date but most are accurate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. Thank You!
Everyone should tell these lying sacks of shit that they know what's going on.
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
113. I hope Keith isn't an enabler.
I'm still waiting for his Howard Beale moment.

If he knows what's going on, what's to stop him?

After all, he did say on his show once that he didn't need his job.

Sigh..

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #113
168. Keith isn't an enabler personally, but MSNBC--definitely!
They are doing their part in catapulting the propaganda that the polls mean something, and in that respect they are an enabler.
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
110. Thanks for the list...
They'll be hearing from me.... I hope they'll hear from you too...
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Ayup.
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chicagoexpat Donating Member (843 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
42. John McCain Lie Counter Web Page
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
45. Keep frightening the TV channels sponsors and advertisers
so the channels will back down
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. Right on! The media must have its horse race
They have to create the illusion of a "dead heat." If they don't, they fear they will get no attention.

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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. they are trying to swing the election toward a candidate who will keep
up business as usual.
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
49. And don't forget the bogus Nielsen ratings
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 01:33 PM by RufusTFirefly
Like WTC7 did for 9/11 (sorry for what might seem like a tortured analogy, but it's true), it was the bogus Nielsen ratings that said McSame's speech had higher ratings than either Obama's or Palin's that opened my eyes to the extent of the fraud that is being perpetrated upon us in this "election." Before Nielsen, I suppose I could've believed the Official Story that the race was neck-and-neck (after all, my respect for the American voting public's intelligence is not especially high), but the notion that more people watched a lackluster McThuselah than an inspiring Obama or even a hyped-up media curiosity like Palin simply stretched credulity to the breaking point for me. Bullshit.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. I totally agree with you. They really believe people will fall for anything
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
50. A few small caveats. First, none of those 11 million new Dems will be in polls...
of likely voters, or even polls of registered voters depending on when the poll was taken and how the polling company gains its information on registered voters.

So, it wouldn't be media and polling companies lying. It would be polling companies unable to account for the huge swaths of new registrations. Some have been trying to weight it properly, but it's purely a guessing game, especially when the standard of "likely voter" is used.


Second, yes the Democrats will gain in the House and Senate this year. But those likely Senate pickups are in places like Oregon, New Mexico, Colorado and Virginia -- formerly red states that have trended blue over the last several cycles. That's totally different than a national election for president, which has to consdier more than the trends in one state.


Third, like it or not, McCain's VP pick -- and the ensuing convention, the bounce of which trumped the previous bounce of the DNC -- has had a real effect on the election, and it's not common sense to argue otherwise, it's obstinance.

All that said, a convention bounce is merely that -- a bounce. It will come back down in a couple weeks, especially in light of changing events, such as the debates. Indeed, the electoral map of the last week, in which a measurement of the state-by-state polls has McCain barely winning the election (Source: http://electoral-vote.com / ) likely represents a high-water mark for the McCain camp. Look at it this way: McCain only wins if he can win New Mexico, Nevada, Virginia, Ohio and Indiana. Obama only needs to steal one of those away, and the election's his.

Finally, I understand your incredulousness, but you have to remember that Bush's own approval sits at about 33 percent right now. Add to that another 17 percent or so who don't like Bush but do believe that McCain is a "maverick," and just like that, you're up to 50-50.

No one is lying to you, but a lot of people are lying to themselves.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. I'm sorry... most of what you just said, I don't buy...
Bush is not at 33 percent. He's lower. And anyone who has some semblance of good sense knows that McCain is right in line with Bush. That fact alone drives up McCain's unfavorable rating.

The Palin pick is also a mirage at this point. News sources have already debunked the overdone number of 23k that came to see the pair. It was more like 7 or 8 thousand.

You're right about those 11,000,000. They are left off of the tally but a real news organization gives us the whole truth. If the news media is our source then they should say how they are arriving at their conclusions because people are starting to believe they were misled, are being misled and will continue to be misled. If you listen to them they all sound like phonies.

Red states. Blue states. No one is going to buy that red states turning purple and blue would mean a loss for the man at the top of the ticket. Come on! Kerry actually won. Gore won too.

Look, many of us were right about everything that happened in the last 8 years. We what the Bush admin was going to be like. We knew that they were invading a country under false pretenses. We knew there were no WMD. Ohio was stolen in 2004.

These polls are a joke and I'm not going to believe otherwise.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #52
81. When you refuse to believe facts, you can believe in anything.
Look, here's the last dozen or so Bush approval polls:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president...

I think 33 percent is a pretty good summation of them. But since you don't believe in any polls whatsoever, you can say whatever you want and it's automatically true for you. As for me, I'm a little iffy on "truthiness," whether it comes from the left or the right. Also, the fact that 7 or 8 thousand came to see McCain and Palin instead of 23,000 is one anecdotal story that can't be used to refute overall popularity.

When you say "many of us were right..." you do me a bit of a disservice by assuming I'm not among that number. I never thought we'd find WMD in Iraq and I said from the get-go that we were invading under false pretenses. But I came to those decisions after weighing the evidence out there, not totally dismissing it out of hand. I come to my opinions after reasonable analysis of the facts at hand, not rejecting anything close to a factual analysis out of a fear that every part of the media and the Republican Party are all somehow in collusion.

I think the real problem with your take on this is in your second sentence: "anyone who has some semblance of good sense knows that McCain is right in line with Bush." To quote the late great H.L. Mencken, "No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby." I think your assumption that all the voting public are possessed of a surpassing knowledge of the issues and the good sense to act properly on that knowledge is very much mistaken. And as I said, if only 17 percent of that public believes in the McCain-as-maverick mythology, combined with the diehard Republican base, then we are at a 50-50 race.
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MuscleBear Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #81
120. I have to chime in here about the polls....
I think they are fixed, all of them.

So coming to the conclusion that it is 50/50 based on a 33% approval rating for Bush, plus 17% that say McCain is a Maverick is just bizarre on two fronts.

First, we are arguing over the accuracy of polling data. To base the argument on other polling data is flawed to begin with.

Second, if the 33% figure and the 17% are correct, there is nothing that separates the two. In other words, perhaps 10% of that 17% 'mavericky' group is also part of the 33% Bushies. If so, then instantly, the figure would be 60% Obama and 40% McDummy.

In either case I am emailing and complaining about the numbers, they just aren't right. The major polling firms already admitted that they 'might' have weighed it more heavily towards Republicans, than Democrats after the Republican convention.

There is also the 'Palin's Rapid Fade' story over at DailyKos which shows since her introduction her approval rating has dropped by 13 points "In the span of five days, Palin has gone from +17 to +4 -- a statistically significant shift." That shift is either not yet reflected in the polls or the polls are rigged imho. McCains approval rating has also gone down as sited in the same story.

Personally, I believe it is impossible for so many new Democrats to have been registered, to have a tied poll. Something is wrong.

Finally, I think we should also contact websites that deal with election fraud, (there are a few of them out there like blackboxdotorg), and perhaps suggest to them (as if they already don't know it), that setting up a tight polling scenario is the precursor to stealing elections.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
85. Rec'd because of your post
You articulated what I was thinking perfectly.

I'd like to add one thing: People may say they care about issues, but when it comes to the USA, our elections are won on a 5th grade level. For at least half the voters - and probably more - elections are popularity contests based on whose propaganda a voter chooses to believe.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Precisely. Something I also alluded to in post #81, above.
And thanks for the kind words. :hi:


(Also, sweet avatar! Love her show.)
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #85
124. Spiffarino if it's on a 5th grade level then we need to get
an Obama ad to compare McCain to some old creep in a video game.

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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #124
132. Or maybe this guy?
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 07:12 PM by Spiffarino


Edit: Fixed

Thanks to ImageShack
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ann_american2004 Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. EEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKs LOL
that guy creeps me out almost as much as Mc-Cane
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TheUnspeakable Donating Member (960 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. k&r
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BayjanDem Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. Yes they're lying
because they want us to keep watching. If someone is reported to have a double digit lead, we'll start watching spongebob. Right now McCain is "ahead" Next week for no apparent reason Obama will pass him, then the following week McCain etc. Can't trust the press. Quoting Bill Paxton in "Twister" "They're in it for the money"
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
56. Thank you for putting in writing what I have been mulling over in
my mind for several days.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. If they are the news then they should report the facts accurately
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onlyadream Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
59. This crossed my mind too...
but then I thought back to 2004 and, although it may be all lies, I get a sinking feeling that Palen/McCain will win. It just isn't logical, but it wasn't logical back then either.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. K & R
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President Decider Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
61. GOOD POST .... THERE'S NO WAY THIS ADDS UP ... SOMEBODY IS LYING!
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
62. what gets my blood boiling is when you see McCain/Palin telling lie after lie
and miraculously... their poll numbers go up? WTF! That isn't believable given the last 8 years when we've lied. I know people are paying attention. I hear it from everyone. I don't know but one person who may consider McCain. Everyone else, Dem, GOP, Independent is voting for Obama.
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. Corrupt Talking Heads
Ever since the poll came out stating that they were tied. I knew they were trying to influence the elections by out and out lying. :scared: What scares me is people like to go along with whats popular, so they will vote on who they are told is winning, so they can say they voted for the winner. It's dumb but true. :grr: And the media knows this so it makes it even more disgusting that they would do this.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
64. I don't believe it either, not for one second.
No one can tell me that Obama and McCain are tied. The media just likes to say they are for the sake of ratings, etc. There is no way, shape or form that they are tied. Obama is ahead, way ahead.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
66. Great rant, but I believe they are tied
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 02:46 PM by kwolf68
This is a nation that values no-talent hacks like Brittney Spears over real musicians.

This is a nation so awash in junk news and tabloid journalism that they could probably name "Bradgelinas" 3rd babies name, but can't name 2 judges on the supreme court.

This is a nation where we have our heads glued to the idiot box watching the lastest trash on tv, but only 20% can tell you who is third in line for the Presidency.

This is a nation where one news channel has successfully influenced 70%+ of its viewers that Iraq was involved in 9/11.

This is a nation where the the Daily Tabloid featuring stories on what hollywood actress is boffing who takes more interest than real literary works.

This is a nation where its masses simply DO NOT know shit about a single issue, let alone all the issues.

This is a nation that values simple-minded platitudes over real intellectual leadership.

Im sorry...I do believe McCain/Palin will win this election...I've seen the nation dumbed down with propaganda, junk news, and other assorted toys to keep us entertained to where I have no faith in its people anymore.

Ill vote, Ill promote, but Nero is playing his fiddle.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. You forgot one thing... the election isn't held today
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. Then you are very naive. For all the adverse effects of NAFTA, everyone
bar children too young to remember, will know that their very survival - even doing multiple jobs - has been increasingly and desperately imperilled by these larcenous shysters. When you're hungry, can't afford public transport, could lose your job, even your house, at any time, all of the points you cite cease to be applicable.

Only fraud could achieve the Republicans' victory at the polls, more likely attenuate their defeat, but they are preparing as best they can by cranking up their noise-machine, wholly spurious polls and any laughable inversion of the truth they can think up.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #66
159. I agree with kwolf 68
Let's not forget the huge number of vituperative, small minded bigots who want to gloat over the libruls' despair.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
68. I've written many at MSNBC. Please people tell them they are lying. If you don't
they will believe they can continue doing this. For the first time lets take this election back from pollsters and the media. In unison... let our voices confront that which undoing our democracy. Tell these LIARS that we know what they are up to. They are fixing this election. They want the status-quo in the white house.
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usaf-vet Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
69. The polling lies are a prerequisite for stealing the 2008 election.
Face it people. The polls HAVE to be [kept] close so they can
steal enough votes to steal the third election in a row. 

2000 in Florida, 2006 in Ohio and 2008 in one of the purple
states. 

I'm no pollster but it's not hard to see that simply changing
the sampling size and make-up can change the poll results. Dam
computers have all made it possible. 

Close polls, caging practices and talking heads planting seeds
of doubt on expected turn outs should be consider the trifecta
of stolen elections. 

The question is will Obama fold like Kerry did in 2004. If he
does we're done as a democracy.

Remember It's not the people who vote that count. It's the
people who count the votes.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. You're right but what the media thinks is that WE will BELIEVE THEM. We have to tell them
we do not believe them. We MUST do our PART.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
71. You have to admire their twisted ingenuity in a perverse sort of way. They're
like the dishonest steward in the Gospel parable.

Where money and power are concerned, there are people with a certain kind of pathologically amoral mentality, quite beyond any sense of shame, who will scour the ends of the earth for ideas to help them beat their adversaries and achieve their corrupt ends.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. They can't win forever. Now is the time to try everything. We know McCain is corrupt
the country knows it too. The media knows it because they are in bed with him. Oil is still the name of the neo-con game.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Absolutely right. They can't. The whole house of cards is due to collapse,
aided by the poisoned fruit of their mismanagement of the economy.
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notaboutus Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
73. Not This Time Not This Year
You are right on the money. This is all part of the republican game. Check out www.mediamatters.com . The media is doing their best to give the republicans an unfair advantage. We need a big media blackout day. One day where we all don't watch. It needs to be vocal an organized orderly protest and e-mailed to let them know why. The media is trying to high-jack the political process by shaping and forming public opinion to help the republicans try and steal the election. Remember the war they are known now for lying. NOT THIS TIME NOT THIS YEAR. We the people of The United States of America have to stand up for our rights.
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
74. Loved what you said!
We'll have too many voters for them to even steal it!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. We're going to win and the corporatemediawhore$
need to take beating right along with the mcainiacs.
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TxBlue Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
77. Thank you so much for saying this! K&R
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
99. You're welcome... this is our country too
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greenmutha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
80. AMEN! I wholeheartedly agree!
K&R
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southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
82. It doesn't pass the smell test.
Thank you for saying what I've been thinking. :hi:
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Slit Skirt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
83. they can't steal it unless it is close
or the perception that is is close
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
84. total k&r n/t
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
86. Never underestimate the ignorance of 1/2 of the American electorate.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. you are right... but the other half has power. Immeasurable power because this half can determine
the media's revenue stream.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
88. The media likes a close horse race, for the ratings, and the corporate
overlords (their owners among them) want it close for the stealing.
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jennied Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
89. I live in California. Is there ANYTHING I can do, we can do, to STOP them from stealing the race?
Please tell me. And I'll do it. Whatever it is. Just sitting here makes me feel completely useless. I know California is more liberal, I'm not worried about California. I'm worried about Ohio, New York, etc. What can I do??????
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. The media is the strongest tool there is... It creates perception... The pushback is
to let them know that they are trying to steal the election. If you let them know... they don't look at anyone as sheep. It means the electorate has arrived.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #89
163. Jennied - Here's the Obama California web site:
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 09:49 PM by NBachers
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/cahome

You'll see several links to click, including:

Neighbor to Neighbor, Reach out to voters in your community

Volunteers for California for Nevada - California has adopted Nevada as a turn-to-blue state. You can help.

Join California for Obama.

I went down to our San Francisco headquarters at 937 Market this afternoon. I'm going to the volunteer orientation on Wednesday night. I'm going to be phone banking to Nevada; I'm interested in registering new citizens when they obtain citizenship at local citizenship ceremonies; there are neighborhood walks and fliers to post; and you can team up and set up somewhere in your neighborhood and register new voters.

DONATE DONATE DONATE!

This is a historic time. You are part of it. You'll remember these days for the rest of your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M
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jennied Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #163
182. Thanks so much. I think I'll sign up for the phonebanking in my area :)
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
90. Don't you see what they are doing...
they come on tv everyday and are harping on the point that white working class men or women are not voting for Obama because he is not one of them.

It doesn't seem to be working...As far as they are concerned they are interchangeable which will it be this week, last week it was white working class women because they have women power and they need Sarah to lead them on...I guess its time to start on the men,Oh, I have and idea maybe they should ask some of the men on wall street...
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
94. They mean to win Wimbledon
This is one part of the pre-theft, they can't steal it if it's not a race.
And they make it a race with the other part...disenfranchisement.
The machines can handle the rest.
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Project Grudge Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
95. I'd like to think it isn't true...
but people are INCREDIBLY stupid. Look at 2004 and chimp's reelection. Wouldn't surprise me if people voted to have their own houses taken away by Rethugs as long as some 16 year old can't get birth control medicine.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. You said it... If McCain is set up to win like he was set up to win his
GOP nomination then we're in trouble. And yes I do believe the GOP nomination was rigged. No one had a chance. Not even Mitt.
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
98. The Christian Radio Networks have saturated our radio waves with their
local Christian stations preaching that we are to hate Muslims. I know...I accidently found one here in my area while I was trying to dial into NPR on my little old transistor radio. I was shocked and thoroughly dumbfounded. "This explains it" I said to myself...this is where so many people in my community are getting so misinformed! The station urges listeners to go to americanvalues.org
http://www.ouramericanvalues.org / and Bauer comes on the station to comment on govt. issues! James Dobson has messages of morals and personal issues!

D.J. Pastor JEFF talks even more asinine than Limpballs or Insanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ONLY news coverage at 5:00 mentioned the Wall Street economic failure with nothing more than an comment by Bernanke that "the economy will be OK!"

I'm still listening to this station and the rock Christian music they play has nothing but subliminal messages.

While we are all here on the net reading and watching vid's debunking the "news truth" and injustices by the CON party, millions tune into their local Christian stations to be dumbdowned and live in la-la-land DAILY!!!!!!!!

I'm sick! Really sick. How can these voters be reached and realize the truth when they tune reality out and are hypnotized by these freaks? I mean this is worse than FOX NOISE!





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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #98
102. You're right and the problem is just as much the Dems fault... There is no pushback... election
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 04:39 PM by wowimthere
should be won on a sense of civility but they are not. Dems shouldn't never wait to late to deliver the truth. To inform is to push back. I see misinformation all day long. If Christ didn't sit in judgment then why are people who call themselves Christians sitting in judgment? People who have read Christ's teachings should know better. Many of these preachers are con men and con women. Many politicians are the same. People have to seek the information from a source other than radio and television. You can find the truth if you look for it. And believe me, it isn't hard to find.
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. How can Dems push back when these Christian Networks can CENSOR what "normal"
people want to say? How do you push back against THAT? If someone tried to advertise with an Obam ad, they'd deny it and go on their merry way preaching hate and intolerance, the ONLY TRUE AMERICAN is one that only listens to AMERICAN VALUES . ORG!!!!!

Gahhhhhhhh :banghead:
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
100. I have no doubt that the rePUGS are gonna make every attempt to try to steal this thing...
But EVERY SINGLE MEDIA OUTLET known to mankind all in on some secret plot? Your post is about 99% valid, but is also the "conspiracy theorist" crap that makes the jerks at my office call me nuts. Wasn't there a post here on Friday saying Obama's own internal polls show a tie?

Point is, DON'T get worked up about this. I believe that even with the tie right now, those of us out knocking on doors and raising money are getting the job done; YES WE CAN!!!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
103. K&R
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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
105. If it ain't a "horserace," they ain't selling advertising.
No contest, no million$ in political ad revenue.

It's that simple.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
106. Filthy lying republican owned corporate media!!!
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timeoutofjoint Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
109. umm. NY in play?---I
doubt it.!!


but the PUMA's are deluding themselves and taking credit :-(


See: http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/internal-n... /


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/news/columnists/la...


LADIES' MAN MAC IS A PLAYER IN NY



BABE MAGNET: Polls show John McCain, with wife Cindy in New Hampshire yesterday, getting a huge boost from New York women.
Loading new images...

By FREDRIC U. DICKER
\

Last updated: 9:43 am
September 15, 2008
Posted: 4:02 am
September 15, 2008

BOOSTED by the selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate, Republican John McCain has experienced a surge of support among women in heavily Democratic New York state - where he has closed the gap with Barack Obama, new private polls show.

The internal Republican and Democratic polls, details of which were provided to The Post, have stunned members of both parties - and produced deep worries among Democrats.

POLL: McCain Picks Up 5 Points in NY.............
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
112. K & R
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
114. So no surprise if McCain wins....
That is why we must continue to donate, volunteer, spread the word, register voters, stay engaged to the campaign....


We Can Do It, YES WE CAN!
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stuartallenmills Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
115. DON'T ASSUME THEY ARE LYING - ACT AS IF ITS THE TRUTH
And don't get angry - get even.
Donate.
Volunteer.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #115
126. correct and welcome to DU
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #115
142. You're right
And welcome to DU!

I've been volunteering at an Obama headquarters and doing phone banking on the "undecideds" - I think some people would be surprised at how many are still on the fence or leaning McCain. It's inexplicable - but, it's there.

Whether the media is keeping it more of a horse race than it actually is to suit their own purposes or not we should act like it's true. Behave like it's true and redouble our efforts.

On the up side - It's my own feeling that we're outpacing the republicans dramatically with new registrations. Making sure these new voters get to the polls and don't have a problem casting their vote is another challenge on the horizon. Let's not take anything for granted or get weary before it's over.
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
116. That's what I've been thinking
too. If they can fix the polls, they can fix the elections. And the polls are too unreal not to be rigged.
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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
118. K & R
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 05:48 PM by Christa
Thank you! :woohoo: Thank you! :woohoo:
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scytherius Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
121. It's simple
It's being set up to be stolen. Read Brad Blog and any other number of investigations and you'll see. it's not just stealing via Diebold software but also via voter caging, etc. Who hear thinks elections actually count the votes cast? Now, once it IS stolen, if these millions of people just sit back and take it, well . . . they deserve the nightmare that is to come. For as they say . . . "when in the course of human events . . . " I believe this would be one of those "events".
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #121
130. It may not even HAVE to be stolen
Many people actually take their cues from polls. We are a shockingly suggestible society, manipulated by advertising and even more nefarious propaganda.

"Gee, it seems like a lot of people are voting for McCain. Oh well, guess I will too."



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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
122. Thank You!!
This family has been saying the same.

Either the media wants to make it a horse race or they're in bed to help the Repugs create a plausible scenario so they can steal another election.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
125. come on tell us how you really feel !
you are correct it`s all a big pile of bullshit we are not supposed to see or smell
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Okota Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. the polls
Maybe they all ready rigged the voting machines for a close
victory for mcshame.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
128. This Thread is too funny
So now all the polls are rigged... but when Obama showed up we heard nary a peep about polls. Look this election cannot even be a little close. Obama must have a mandate to enact the sweeping change that this country needs and wants. The Problem as I see it is in the Palin Pick. To middle American Palin is Obama, she has a story that lends itself to the American dream same as Obama, she obvioulsy is not as good an orator but she is good enough. If Obama had picked Clinton for VP all of this would be moot and the Polls would show a 10 point lead at least.

So do whatever you have to do to get the message out but if this election really is about personalities and not issues then the newest thing on the block is gonna win hands down and Obama will regret the decision he made in picking Biden as VP...

Flame all you want... I am being a realist.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #128
140. Hillary? No!
Then, we'd be bombarded with 'Monica Lewensky', aaaall over again!!!! No thanks! My personal pick would have been Debbie Shultz (D) Florida!

BTW, I sent a few e-mails to a few CHOICE news reporters. }(
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Duncan Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #128
145. no, you are being an asshole.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #145
158. Nice,
you debating skills are first rate. So I take it you don't agree that a Hillary Obama ticket from the start would have received 60 percent of the vote...

Landslide victory, mandate for change without question.

Now we have to defend low polls and Hope, Hope, Hope that come NOV 4th Americans make the right choice...

I have been let down for 8 years now and I get that sinking feeling that I will be let down again but hey I am just an asshole as seen through your Rose colored glasses.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #128
205. Actually you are not. The Repugs WANTED Hillary. They were
waiting for Hillary and her baggage. By picking Biden Obama threw them a curve. But feel free to remain delusional.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #205
220. Delusional...LOL...
The Polls are favoring McCain and after Obama's Invesco speech you tell me how is that possible... Don't give me any of the Conspiracy tin foil hat stolen election crap... Talk reality Obama had a chance to lead this thing in double digits and sail to NOV 4th but no.... If you honestly belive Joe Biden was the right pick for Obama and that that pick will give Obama the Mandate he needs for sweeping change then you my friend are the delusional one.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #220
223. Still having a problem with reality I see. What part of the Repugs
Edited on Tue Sep-16-08 01:17 PM by greyghost
counting on running against Hillary don't you understand? They wanted Hillary from jump street to invigorate their base. When they didn't get her they picked Palin to do it for them.

Picking Joe bridged the experience gap and he's a decent choice. However, the real 400 pound gorilla in the room remains race. Race is what is keeping the poll numbers so close. Come election day we'll see if the young people that Obama attracted really do carry the day. They haven't figured in any of the polling because they don't have land lines. So the polls are tainted by the fact that they are comprised almost exclusively of older white folks. Gallup admitted the other day that they haven't talked to people under 29.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #223
225. Yes, that is the optimistic side
I agree, the young voters are most likely being discounted but we heard of this same phenomenom with Kerry, Rock the vote, Vote or Die, powerful messages to the youth of America that just didn't seem to transpire at the polls. My point which you are thoughtlessly throwing away is that had Obama picked Hillary even an energized Rethug base could not have pulled the independents and women that McCain seems to be pulling now. My broader point which you also calously disregard is that this election is about CHANGE... Biden is not Change. This has more of a Kennedy/Johnson feel but this is not the 1960's and the Change that Obama wants to bring about in America is going to require a huge mandate not a small fraction win. You cannot make change when America gives you a 50.000001 share of the vote. It leads to dissent and makes any choice political fodder for your opposition especially when you are running on a populist theme with unity at the center of your message. Hillary would have given him a 60 percent vote share in November and a clear mandate for change. I guess it could still turn out that way. I hope anyway.
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #225
230. Believe me, I gave it a lot of thought and I was hoping for a knock
down drag out election season with Hillary on the ticket.

But it was Obama's call, and for whatever reason it didn't pan out.
Maybe he didn't feel he could trust her, maybe he felt he couldn't
work with her. I guess we'll have to wait for the books.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping as well.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
131. thank you....
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Foxman Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
134. I'd like to believe every word you say here but,,,,,
do you have facts to back it up?
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
135. K&R
To the truth!

:kick:
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Diebold_man Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
136. I've seen the code...
the fix is in....
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
138. I live in McCain's home state
And I am yet to see a single McCain bumper sticker or sign. That's hardly a scientific analysis, but... Yeah?... Really? "Come On"!
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
139. K&R
:kick:







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MuscleBear Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
146. For all the realists out there....
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 08:16 PM by MuscleBear
This story at Huffington Post is just the beginning.

How a survey is conducted is vital to the poll's results.

If they are already starting the nonsense in this article, I'm sure the questioning in 'legit' polls could easily have skewed the results. Everything from adding more Repukes and dropping Dems can totally switch everything.

Chuck Todd on Hardball intimated that he didn't feel the pollsters were including the latest registration numbers in their polling, which would change results accordingly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/jewish-voters-...

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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
148. Serious question...
The same pollsters who conducted the exit polls that showed that the '04 election was stolen...

Are these the very same people who are now being accused of dishonest polling?
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GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
149. because ratings go up if it's neck and neck
Look how much mileage they got out of the Clinton/Obama primaries. The more they get people to tune in the more their revenue increases. If they announced that it 80% Obama and 12% McLame, it would all be over and people would consider it a done deal and tune out.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
150. K & R.
That's what I'm thinking.
:hi:
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
151. you over-estimate the electorate and the power of
rovian tactics

and----we need to work harder

we need better ads

we need more succinct, sound bytey speeches

more "feel your pain" type talk

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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
156. Because the media operates...
...under the mistaken belief that "both sides" of everything must be heard -- even when the facts only support one side -- in order to be considered fair and impartial. They have been trained to do this over the years by, probably, right wing interests, because facts have a well-known liberal bias :-) and reporting stuff based on facts generates the impression of the so-called "liberal bias." Get bashed enough for that, and they start the whole "both sides" approach -- which also tends to make both such "sides" appear equal in terms of value and veracity.

And, needless to say, it is in the media's interest to report anything and everything that appears to make the race seem THIS-CLOSE, likely to the exclusion of other facts, because a neck-and-neck race to the finish line fits "the narrative" of the campaign -- a narrative that heightens the drama and conflict and generates buzz and attracts viewers and advertising dollars, blah blah. It's not necessarily journalism; it's more like marketing.

In a culture that has such a healthy (or unhealthy) dose of bread and circuses, this makes perfect sense.
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lelgt60 Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
160. You're a bunch of lazy defeatists
I realize that this post was meant to rile people up, but...

By continually claiming that something that hasn't happened yet, will happen, you are encouraging people to give on on Obama. I understand the posts that point out that great attention must be paid to ensure as little voter fraud as possible occurs - those are good calls to action. But this is simply a call to give up. As well as calling thousands of people you don't know liars because they don't present the news in the way you would like.

The reason the election is close is simple. The country is split 45-45. There's only about 10% truly undecided. McCain doesn't have to do anything but cheerlead to get that 45%.

So, what do we have to do?

Convert the 10%!. And you won't do it by making wild insulting claims. It's stupid when there's so much documented evidence that you can use during a reasonable discussion with someone who's undecided. I applaud the people doing that actual hard work.

The days when you can assume opponents are not looking at this site are long over. Unless you truly want 4 more years of Republican rule, I encourage you to focus on the 10% undecided folks who can be persuaded with arguments that don't start out by calling them stupid and evil. I'm beginning to wonder just how many of these posts are actualy by democrats, and not by republicans trying to make us look hateful.

That's my rant.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #160
165. There is no "Voter Fraud" and what are you smoking?!11!1!
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 09:55 PM by Breeze54
The OP is talking about the M$M and the lying Pollsters that skew the polls they way they want them!

Where have you been that you don't know WTF is and has been going on?

The OP is not, in any way, encouraging ANYONE not to vote the Democratic ticket... :wtf:

You've posted ONE post and you already have such astute insight on DU members?

Nice entry into DU. :sarcasm:

Did you get a pizza yet for the nasty name calling in your reply title?

I haven't checked yet but I'm guessing I'm typing all this in vain.
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doyle45 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
161. Yeah, they're a ton of polls out there saying the same thing....
They're all from the same person probably. All the polls are rigged.

I bet Dick Cheney is sitting there with his shotgun leaning in the corner typing this crap up. Funny there is a hurricane happening now too....

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nikto Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
162. I agree, but GOP electronic vote-flipping is REAL
Edited on Mon Sep-15-08 09:48 PM by nikto
I believe theses phony polls are just a cover for the REAL VOTE-FLIPPING
and electronic tabulation-machine shananigans planned for November.

It won't be enough to flip the election, but it will cut Obama's mandate
by something like 10-million votes or more.

Instead of having a landslide victory, it will only
be a "moderate" margin-of-victory for Obama.

I don't know how we stop this, other than following the advice on BRADBLOG
and Mark Crispin Miller's Blog.

Actually, I believe the "fear-factor" of losing energizes Democrats who are
deathly afraid of McSCUM/IM-Pail-In.

We fear the GOP ticket even more than the rightwing base worships them.

And clearly, to rightwing GOPers, PALIN IS BETTER THAN JESUS.

The fears of sensible people exceed the hero-worship of vapid GOP voters.

STOP McSCUM and MOOSE-A-LINI!!
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Ronbeaux Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
166. I have never been this angry over an election.
I have voted in every presidential election since 1972 and I have been disappointed more than once. But I have NEVER been this upset, angry or worried about an election. THIS is our last chance, people...I truly believe that. IF Obama is not elected, we are done as a democratic country.

A story I heard today:
At the local State Fair here in Maryland, a young lady was wearing Obama pins on her shirt with a bumper sticker on the rear of her jeans. A man walked up to her and said that if she kept wearing that stuff, somebody might just shoot her!

She immediately went to the Fair security office to report the threat. Their response?

"You might want to remove the pins then."

Tonight, I donated to the Obama campaign and signed up to make calls. I will NOT have American voters intimidated!! ENOUGH!!

My next stop is Virginia. I will carry that damned state myself for Obama if I have to. :grr:

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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
169. k&r
:dem:

-Laelth
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bluebutterfly Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #169
172. gallup poll article
I don't know how to send links. On Sept 12, 2008; there was an
article published from Gallup that explains how little their
poll means.
If anyone finds this valuable to add to your discussion, then
maybe a link could be added by someone a little more computer
smart than I am.(just about anybody would qualify!).
www.gallup.com/poll/110272/Registered-Voters-VS-Likely-Voters.aspx

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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #172
228. Welcome to DU!
Thanks for the link. Interesting.

-Laelth

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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
170. I do not see very many people who are for McCain
I see many more Obama stickers that McCain, but the Republican manufactured and programmed voting machines is something Repubs are counting on, and the corporate media. Notice how Candy Crowley was so biased today, just like she was for Bush. The Corporations will never allow the people to win an election. Even in Republican territory I do not see many McCain stickers, but the corporations want to make this thing close so they can steal another election. Yes, they are against paper ballots, they are against exit polls, etc., for very good reason, America is now a corporate dictatorship/plutocracy.
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dakdirty Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
173. This makes me want to vomit...
I'm glad to know that I can come to a place like this and see that there are plenty of people in this country who actually have something on the ball, and are as disgusted as I am with the way the media consistently and flagrantly broadcast pure falsehood. I, personally, cannot stomach any of the news that is on television, and don't watch any of it. I became disillusioned with TV news while working as a stringer for a few of the local stations. I would go out and shoot at least 30 min. of tape on any subject, lots more if it was bloody, and see all of that compressed in to 45 sec. of the most shocking/interesting/whatever shots, and a sound bite. All the images presented are put together by people who have a specific intent to 1.) titillate the masses, and 2.) make sure that sponsor revenue keeps coming in, period. Plain and simple, they are not going to show you too much that will piss off the moneybags. To see the amount of distortion of the truth that occurred frankly turned me off from pursuing that career any further. I didn't last 6 months. The mainstream media is incapable from reporting on the unbiased truth because their very existence depends on the flow of money from companies who advertise with them. As much as it disgusts me, I am a bit intrigued by the cunning with which this whole scheme was put into place. Television is just a vehicle for companies to advertise. These same companies also influence our legislative process through lobbying and donations in order to ensure that the government passes laws primarily designed to benefit them. How in the hell would the television people make any money if they were constantly allowing their news agencies to bash them and their pet politicians? These corporate fucks have whole networks dedicated to spewing nothing but mindless psuedonews, in an attempt to not only control your money, but your whole view of the world. I don't really trust any of it. These "polls" are just another example of how corporate America really views all of us; a bunch of bumblefuck nabobs who don't care about "facts", just give us a good fight!
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #173
180. You got that rite: "bumblefuck nabobs"!!!!
Welcome aboard dakdirty.

:hi:
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
174. The counter-argument would be that the American electorate defies good commonsense
I'm not sure which I think is the case at this point.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
175. Actually, if skewing the polls help ANYONE it would be the dems...so... yeah
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drgonzosghost Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
177. Costa Rica, Guys....C'mon Down
Face it, they are going to steal it again. There isn't a damn thing anyone here can do about it either. I'm not trying to be pessimistic here, I'm just saying what's going to happen. Do you REALLY think the richest and most powerful people and corporations are going to risk loss of profit and / or prosecution in the case of soon to be former officials? America's dead folks. Stick a fork in lady liberty's ass because she is done. Barring an actual armed uprising that would probably be squashed by cops and Blackwater in the same day it started, NOTHING is going to fix the problem.

So...

Let me tell you about a great and truly free country in Central America called Costa Rica. I've been living here for the past two years and watching the crapulence unfold from afar. There is no army. There is no police state. And you can protest the govt. however you see fit as long as you aren't violent about it. The environment is treated like a treasure, and 5% of the entire world's biodiversity is right here in this adorable little place. Here you can wave at a cop while enjoying any herbal or alcoholic libation on the street.

There's still room and still time to get out. Get your passports folks, because they already know you're coming and are giving visas away like so many flap jacks!
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zeek 463 Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
178. last time bush screwed the vote
we sat back and took it up the ass for fore more year's are we just going to sit here and talk shit about what if ? What will we really do ? Are you willing to go as far as to pick up arm's? after six year's of war do you really think our troop's would fire on there own? as a vet I don't see it they know what's going on we know the cop's mite try as stupid as that sound's but just look around as some of the dumb crap there pulling but if you dust a hand full they back up when they see your not playing they have family's to and get right down to it if they don't have five or more cop's with them they can't seem to pile on one man. I'm so sick of the shit that's going down I would be more then happy to fire the first shot and after 12 year's in the army I know a little about tactics....so after the election will we still be here talking shit or will we get off our dead ass and fight like men to take our country back? You know sometime's blood shed is the only damn thing that get's noticed........Don't mind me I'm just so pissed it's not funny.
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frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #178
229. There are ALOT of people...
just waiting for the signal.

A wise American once said-
"Give me liberty, or give me death"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
179. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.
 
Jose6pack Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #179
181. what if they ARE accurate?
I don't buy this argument - not all the polls are fixed. This same talk was going on the last couple elections, and the polls weren't off by very much as I recall. The Independants are finally making up their minds. As someone else here said - these people aren't issue-driven, they are personality and sound-bite driven. I experienced this myself today, talking to my mom. She loves Hillary, and is voting for McCain. She fired off a bunch of Faux News soundbites. Dems aren't good at these little catchy lies, and unfortunately at least half of this country are brain dead. The other half are freaked out and donating like crazy. Don't make the mistake of assuming the polls are wrong, or assuming America will see thru the lies; the Dems keep losing because we underestimate and don't fight hard enough. And frankly - Obama is too black, too liberal, and too black for most Americans. His skin color will cost at least 20% of the vote.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #181
188. Sure, whatever you say.
:eyes:
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #181
191. Two whole post and you are already complaining about Obama's skin color.h
Sounds like a racist freeper to me.
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Jose6pack Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #191
227. put your head back in the sand
Why would you call me a "racist freeper"? I don't even know what that is. So saying skin color *may* be a reason America doesn't embrace Obama makes me racist? Would this argument make more sense to you if Obama loses to the McManiac in two months, despite the state of our country? I absolutely love the guy, and think he's the most inspiring candidate we've had in awhile, but I'm running into blue-state- Democrats who for some reason can't/won't vote for him and don't have a good excuse why. Your turn to tell me why, please.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #179
186. You probably believe the corporate media is liberal, don't you?
:silly:
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
183. THAT is what I am talking about. It is crazy to me that Obama isn't beating the crap out
of McCain.
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OakCliffDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
184. I agree with you. Kick and Recommend
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
189. They have to keep it close or they wouldn't have a story at 6:30
Or whenever the particular talking head is on or the newspaper is published.

It is all so they can have their sensational stories. That is why they keep trying to create a rift between Obama and the Clinton's. One that does not exist.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
192. I don't believe the MSM or POLITICIANS can be humiliated into submission ...
unless their like-minded ignorants are humiliated first; at their roots.
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Spock_is_Skeptical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
195. The pukes are gonna steal it again, no doubt.
I doubt the Obama camp will put up much resistance. Seriously, what a crock of shit.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
197. Polls are run by media companies,
and can be manipulated, just as any statistic.
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
199. You are EXACTLY spot on...We can't let this happen again
Not this time...don't look back...keep looking forward. The power is in the numbers folks...and we have the numbers.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
200. The polling companies are bought and paid for by Big Money
...and are used as PR tools to feed the fascist propaganda machine
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Janeite Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
202. I agree with you but
I also think it is closer than it should be, even without the corrupt polls, because racism is alive and well in the USA :puke:
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #202
209. Unfortunately you are spot on, racism is the 400 pound gorilla in
the room that no one wants to talk about.

I truly believe that is the main reason the polls are so close.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
207. You speak the truth! They call it a tie now so that when Repubs steal votes later
Edited on Tue Sep-16-08 08:26 AM by valerief
it won't look so suspicious.
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wowimthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
214. What has to happen in the end is that we must hold the media accountable
Edited on Tue Sep-16-08 09:43 AM by wowimthere
for the things they say, the polls they distribute when the situations don't fit neatly into the reality. Some have suggested race is the reason. Perhaps but Kerry and Gore lost because their elections were stolen. What is the answer for that?

Some have suggested that this post was about defeatism. It isn't. It is telling people to stand up and fight. Don't be bullied by these polls and pundits. Chuck Todd had to admit that the polls don't take account of the increase in voter registration. The push back is beginning to work. Yes they do want a horse race but your media should be able to tell you what metrics are used for these polls. They aren't supposed to mislead you.

Some have even suggested that the polls are the way they are and it is natural that these two candidates are tied. If you believe that then I know a bridge in Alaska I can sell you too.

Money should tell you everything. When one candidate is raising record amounts of money and the other isn't that tells you something. When one candidate's donor list is swelling disproportionately to the other then you follow these two trends. How can Obama be losing if these stats don't drop out of the fold? Yesterday McCain couldn't get 3000 people to hear him speak.

I would suggest that people shouldn't be so gullible. Open one eye. This is not a mirage. Obama is the nominee. If racism was a huge factor then the fact that McCain is tied to Bush by virtue of his party's label must be the great equalizer.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
216. It is a lie, but no one is invested in showing the lie
The media wants a contest so they can sell more product, McCain wants it to look tied so he can steal it, Obama wants it to look tied so we will keep working, thereby keeping McCain from stealing it. So, unfortunately, we get to just put up with it.
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President Decider Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
217. ALMOST 10K PEOPLE HAVE NOW SEEN THIS THREAD ..... I HOPE THEY'RE PASSING IT ALONG!


Let the TRUTH be told and so it shall set us free!

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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #217
226. I'm gonna kick it just to make sure
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
221. We need to organize events to reach people on a grassroots level
:dem:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
224. What so many are thinking..
Thanks for sharing.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
232. Kick for a Great post!

:kick:

:kick:

:kick:
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cabbage08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
233. Kick n/t
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
234. Honestly...
I have to agree! There is something very strange about how things are being reported. The media just wants to keep its story going and if it's a tie, they still have something to blather on about.

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