Why my 72yo dad in Florida won't vote for Obama

[Newsjock]

Yes, my folks were two of the 500-ish votes in Florida in November 2000 that put this nation on track to the nightmare we're in. Since then, they'd had a remarkable change of heart and admitted they'd made a poor choice. (Which was good, because we weren't talking for quite a while.)

But today, my mother told me that while she thinks Obama is better than McCain (and Biden is much, much better than Palin), she also said that my father simply cannot bring himself to vote for Obama. And the reason absolutely floored me.

He's old enough to remember the era of Hitler. And he says that every time he sees Obama in front of a large, adoring crowd -- yes, particularly in Berlin -- he thinks of der Fuhrer. He thinks the crowds are worshiping a person more than supporting an ideology, and he says that's what got Germany into its big trouble.

I was (and still am) dumbfounded. I told my mother what a absolutely stupid and asinine line of reasoning that was, and she seemed to sheepishly agree, but it doesn't look like there's much that can be done about it ... at least now.

I'm not sure how much effort I should expend into trying to change his mind, or even how I could possibly do that. (He's at least as stubborn as I am.) On the other hand, this is enough to get us not talking to each other again, and at 72 -- well, I don't want to talk about it.

So I'm not sure what I'm asking for here, but thanks for letting me vent in front of 126,542 of my close friends.

[bigmonkey]

1. Didn't FDR speak to really big crowds as well? /nt

[BrklynLiberal]

3. That's right JFK was also very charismatic..

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Didhe watchthe repuke convention? Those people were absolutely drooling

over mcsame and the barracuda...

[kath]

7. yes- and all the chants of "USA! USA!" -that totally creeped me out. The whole atmosphere of that

convention made me think of the old tapes of Nazi rallies. :scared:

And the "Country First" signs?? - remind anyone of "Deutschland uber Alles" much? EEK.

[kestrel91316]

17. I find the USA! USA! USA! chanting absolutely repulsive and

inappropriate, whether it's being done by Republicans or Democrats. Way too nationalistic, almost fascist. I NEVER participate in it if it crops up anywhere I am.

Perhaps it's suitable at an international sporting event, but that's ALL.

[Monk06]

23. "Country First" Deutshland Uber Alles. Same thing same people.

[DianeG5385]

4. My Republican Dad will not vote for Obama

He after conceding the disasterous Bush /McCain speech was awful!

[Barack_America]

5. If I may ask, are your parents Jewish?

[Newsjock]

12. They are not ...

... but, as they say, "many of their friends are."

[Barack_America]

30. Okay. It's just that it has been revealed that Palin's church has some pretty awful views on Jews.

I didn't mean to be nosy.

[DianeG5385]

24. Roman Catholic!!!!

I'm online today looking for Rosary patterns even though I question.

[emilyg]

6. I used to argue politics with my step-dad

Since he passed away I regret all the bad feelings that caused.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. My dad and his wife won't vote for Obama either

But they won't vote for McCain
I'm trying to push them to Bob Barr

They both hated the Clintons, and his wife is a long time Bush supporter.

Hell, I fought against him during the Vietnam War where he told me
he didn't want another 'nigger' in the family.

He was talking about my brother and his son.

[elleng]

9. Tho you'll not likely find pics of many mcC worshipping crowds,

there's the rep convention; mebbe others?

Then maybe mention various rep fascistic tactics bushies have undertaken recently, and think of all the bush-worshippers and what that's gotten us into?

Dunno, grasping at straws here; can't afford rep votes in florida.

[Lorien]

10. Send him this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6965402&mesg_id=6965402

[elleng]

13. Good one,

Lorien.

[Newsjock]

14. Good idea!

Indeed, I think that probably is the way to go. I'll try sending a couple such emails during the next week and see what happens. If I get "leave me alone," well, then, that's all she wrote.

One thing is for sure: In an actual conversation between me and my father, he always wins. :) So I'll try a different strategy.

Thanks.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Tell him that JFK, MLK, and even Gahndi has large following....

and tell him that those people around Barack support him because of his message; the first being that he stood up against the Iraq war, while most of the rest of the politicians followed George Bush like sheeps. If he's worried about the Killing of the innocents, he should just know that at least 500,000 Iraqis were killed during that war, as well as Billions upon Billions spent.

If that doesn't get him, then he's unreachable, and it has nothing to do with Hitler.

[Eric J in MN]

15. Hitler's speeches blamed the Jews.

Obama isn't inciting hatred against a group with his speeches.

Also, JFK accepted the Democratic nomination at Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum. He spoke before big crowds, too.

[Newsjock]

16. Upon further reflection, I'll add this

I also would not be surprised if there's more than a little bit of "the race thing" at play here. I remember how my folks acted during the race riots of 1968, and it certainly did not set a good example for a young Newsjock who did not know any better at the time.

But I think they also know that today -- and especially to me, their sweet, gay, homosexual son -- they don't dare mention anything like that overtly.

[flamingdem]

18. I don't buy what he is saying .. it's something else .. does he know Obama has some Jewish blood ? n

[Eric J in MN]

26. Where did you hear that? NT

NT

[flamingdem]

39. I read something but now only find info that Michelle's cousin is a prominent black rabbi

While Barack Obama has struggled to capture the Jewish vote, it turns out that one of his wife’s cousins is the country’s most prominent black rabbi — a fact that has gone largely unnoticed.

Michelle Obama, wife of the Democratic presidential nominee, and Rabbi Capers Funnye, spiritual leader of a mostly black synagogue on Chicago’s South Side, are first cousins once removed. Funnye’s mother, Verdelle Robinson Funnye (born Verdelle Robinson) and Michelle Obama’s paternal grandfather, Frasier Robinson Jr., were brother and sister.

Funnye (pronounced fuh-NAY) is chief rabbi at the Beth Shalom B’nai Zaken Ethiopian Hebrew Congregation in southwest Chicago. He is well-known in Jewish circles for acting as a bridge between mainstream Jewry and the much smaller, and largely separate, world of black Jewish congregations, sometimes known as black Hebrews or Israelites. He has often urged the larger Jewish community to be more accepting of Jews who are not white.

Funnye’s famous relative gives an unexpected twist to the much-analyzed relationship between Barack Obama and Jews in this presidential campaign. On the one hand, Jewish political organizers, voters and donors played an essential role in Obama’s rise to power in Chicago, including some of the city’s wealthiest and most prominent families. But the Illinois senator has struggled to overcome suspicions in some parts of the Jewish community, including skepticism about his stance on Israel and discredited but persistent rumors that he is secretly a Muslim.

Funnye, who described himself as an independent, said he has not been involved with the Obama campaign but that he has donated money and was cheering it on.

“I know that her grandfather and her father and my mom and all of our relatives that are now deceased would be so very, very proud of both of them,” Funnye told the Forward.

Michelle Obama and the Obama campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

[casus belli]

19. Been there, done that.

I have a rule that I no longer discuss politics with my maternal aunts due to the frustration of not being able to have a reasonable discussion with them when it comes to politics. Despite my optimistic nature, I have learned that there is such a thing as a hopeless cause. It's probably time better spent concentrating on the reasons you love them, rather than how lost they are.

All the best to you...

[FrenchieCat]

20. Yep, and show him pics of

this Catholic President that the older people were afraid of back in 1960:







also let him know about about Palin's Seperatist associations and possible ties to White suprimacist groups.....remind him that she supported Pat Buchanan a few years back. Usually the one you think will do you harm isn't the one at all.

And....
Just in case he was a Reagan Democrat or something..... short 3:41 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKXVDbvkoQ

And article with Nancy Reagan talking up Barack Obama: http://blogs.abcnews.com/liveblogging/2008/09/nancy-reagan-ve.html

[TheDonkey]

21. Bullshit.

Oops. Sorry, not to sound harsh but I think your father is being a little less than honest. I know of a friend who also hurled the "Obama=Hitler" meme at me but that attack literally make NO sense. The real reason why he doesn't like Obama is unfortunately he is racist (would not like to vote for a popular black man) and is not sure how to say that even though he doesn't necessarily like McClown. Pretty pathetic.

There will be some people who will just not vote for Obama because of RACE and come up with whatever excuse they can think of.

[Newsjock]

27. Oh! *facepalm*

I didn't even remember this till you said that. Back around 1969 or 1970, my dad's brother, who had been active in the marches in the South, married a black woman. They came to visit, and I remember the extremely uncomfortable dinner at my grandparents' house.

Yeah, I think we're getting close to the truth here.

Then again, when I came out to them as gay way back in 19-blah-blah, they couldn't deal with that at all either. After some time passed, their views have changed completely. So there may be some hope, although 40 years is a long time to wait.

[Ron Green]

28. Exactly. It's bullshit, with a lame excuse to try to justify it.

I'm through listening to self-deception as an excuse to vote for a fascist regime.

[Undercurrent]

22. Reagan spoke before large, adoring crowds

and in Berlin at that. In front of the Brandenburg Gate.

[melody]

25. Ask him if he'd rather live in a Mussolini Christofascist state with Palin at the helm

A real dictator versus a mistakenly considered one.

[abumbyanyothername]

29. To put this gently

I sense your father is covering.

And if I were you, I would let it be.

In Alcoholics Anonymous we have a saying: To waste too much time with a man who doesn't want it, is to deny another his opportunity.

Every time you feel like talking with your dad about the election, call a friend who is more open, or make a donation instead.

[Newsjock]

31. Yes, we are a stubborn clan

Would I rather be right ... or happy?

Point taken.

[emilyg]

33. In Alcoholics Anonymous we have a saying: To waste too much time with a man who doesn't want it, is

I'll have to remember that. Thanks.

[JBoris]

32. The cheering of Obama's supporters is not dangerous; the repub's hive-mind is. nt

[Smarmie Doofus]

34. I've a friend who's equivocating about Obama 'cause.....

... Oprah supports him. ( Or so he says).

Oprah ... to him... is the epitome of all that is false, glittery, superficial, inane in the culture.

He'll come around, I presume. But my point is people do dumb things for even dumber reasons; especially where politics is concerned.

[Raine]

35. I think that's bullshit

and the real reason is just plan racism. That's such lame reasoning and the kind of BS that people use when the real reason is because Obama is black.

[democracy1st]

36. I call it, He's a dumb ass no reason to respect ignorance not anymore

[usregimechange]

37. It isn't Obama's fault that McCain is boring.

[RoyGBiv]

38. Well, with all due respect, that's stupid

And I say that as a member of a family with people I love dearly but who are tragically stupid.

They'll not vote for Obama because he's black ... or because he's not Christian enough ... or something.

Whatever it is, it's stupid.

[flamingdem]

40. Assuming your dad is Jewish tell him Michelle's cousin is a prominent black rabbi!

While Barack Obama has struggled to capture the Jewish vote, it turns out that one of his wife’s cousins is the country’s most prominent black rabbi — a fact that has gone largely unnoticed.

Michelle Obama, wife of the Democratic presidential nominee, and Rabbi Capers Funnye, spiritual leader of a mostly black synagogue on Chicago’s South Side, are first cousins once removed. Funnye’s mother, Verdelle Robinson Funnye (born Verdelle Robinson) and Michelle Obama’s paternal grandfather, Frasier Robinson Jr., were brother and sister.

Funnye (pronounced fuh-NAY) is chief rabbi at the Beth Shalom B’nai Zaken Ethiopian Hebrew Congregation in southwest Chicago. He is well-known in Jewish circles for acting as a bridge between mainstream Jewry and the much smaller, and largely separate, world of black Jewish congregations, sometimes known as black Hebrews or Israelites. He has often urged the larger Jewish community to be more accepting of Jews who are not white.

Funnye’s famous relative gives an unexpected twist to the much-analyzed relationship between Barack Obama and Jews in this presidential campaign. On the one hand, Jewish political organizers, voters and donors played an essential role in Obama’s rise to power in Chicago, including some of the city’s wealthiest and most prominent families. But the Illinois senator has struggled to overcome suspicions in some parts of the Jewish community, including skepticism about his stance on Israel and discredited but persistent rumors that he is secretly a Muslim.

Funnye, who described himself as an independent, said he has not been involved with the Obama campaign but that he has donated money and was cheering it on.

“I know that her grandfather and her father and my mom and all of our relatives that are now deceased would be so very, very proud of both of them,” Funnye told the Forward.

Michelle Obama and the Obama campaign did not respond to requests for comment.

[KharmaTrain]

41. Send Them This Picture

I'm Jewish and grew up with the holocoust and knew holocoust survivors...and the scenes I saw at the repugnican swillfest were more fascist in nature than what took place at the DNC.

Remind him of the sea of strictly white faces at that convention...or get him a copy of Palin's preacher...or stories about her endorsement of Jews For Jesus. Then ask, if this is worth being a 72-year old heartbeat away?

Cheers...

[Waiting For Everyman]

42. I don't mean this to be mean...

but I feel pretty sure in saying this. Objections like this can't be reasoned with because it's probably unspoken racism. Some people just can't get used to the idea of a black man in the White House. Maybe even subconsciously. But some of these illogical excuses for not voting for him, are just that. I'm not saying that to "label" anyone, but just as a point of understanding. I don't think I'm wrong on that, seriously.

I'm sure I'm not alone in realizing that though. (And on edit and reading all the responses, I see others have made this same point.) I wonder if some of those voters would be at all embarrassed to know that some of us might see that?

Come on... too much enthusiasm? It's based on something real. It isn't a personality cult. It's based on a need for a new direction, and factual qualifications. We're in trouble, and a lot of people know it, and know how seriosly we need Obama and not another fool like McCain. That's reason enough for a big following which is fired up.

They wouldn't be so excited if he was for McCain's policies of funneling mega-bucks to the super-rich. It's that simple. It's survival to lots of us. People around the world know it too - they need some relief from having our military bully them as corporate enforcers. There's scarey stuff going on. Some people see a way to change it, and latch onto it. That's called "sane", it's facing practical reality.

[davidpdx]

43. I have a lot of Republicans in my family

so I understand how you feel. My grandfather is a WWII Vet, a recipient of a Silver Star and flew on the most important mission in WWII. I've been gently trying to nudge him toward voting for Obama, but it's probably a lost cause. He's a hard core Republican and will vote for Mccain. Thankfully my mom will vote for Obama and I'm sure if my dad was alive he would as well.

[Trajan]

44. It's difficult to alter established perceptions like this ....

Consider it a lost vote, and move on ....

I have at least 4 lost votes in my family .... I am not concerned about it ....

[dennis4868]

45. Does your father know....

that more people watched McCain's speech than they did Obama's on TV?

Wow...just because Obama can fill up a stadium when he speaks means he is going to murder 6 million people? Now that is a new one. :-(

[Blarch]

46. why associate with such people ?