HOLY SHIT!! The GOP just lost my wingnut sister!!

[renie408]

My sister has always been a major wingnut apologizer. She and her husband always had an excuse for Bush, always staunchly supported every move the GOP made. I will say they have started to talk about it less and she even had favorable things to say about Edwards...up until all the affair stuff came ou.

My mother just called and said that my sister told her last night that she was VERY upset about Palin. See, her oldest son got a girl pregnant about five years ago and the girl's parents really pushed marriage. Needless to say, they got divorced about four years ago. Anyway, the whole thing cost my sister's family a ton of money, anguish and my nephew ended up quitting college to 'support' his family. But since he had quit college, he couldn't get a job that supported his family, so my sister and BIL supported his family (and still do). My sister said that she is at the least, staying home in November. BUT....GET THIS....she is going to check out Obama and see what he has to say!!

Everybody keeps telling me that the pregnant teenage daughter thing is a non-starter, but for my GOP sister, it was the straw that broke the elephant's back.

[gateley]

1. Excellent! And I think she'll like what Obama has to say, now that she's

ready to listen. :)

[renie408]

7. You know, the funny thing is that you are RIGHT

Her GOP support has always confused the hell out of me. She is big on saving the environment, she adopted two mixed race kids last year whose mother had abandoned them at her church's shelter, she has a debilitating disease which precludes her from working outside the home, her husband is the nicest guy on earth...as long as politics doesn't come up. With all of the other stuff, they are big church goers, RICH, and are big on NO TAXES.

But I think Obama's message WILL resonate with her. She is socially much more like 'us' than like 'them'.

[gateley]

14. Unless they're rich enough to benefit from McCain's tax plan,

show them how Obama will tax them LESS.

I have high hopes for her. When you stop viewing someone through the "enemy" lens, you can begin hearing what they really have to say. That's what happened to me after Biden withdrew -- I didn't have a dog in the race, so I was able to objectively consider what the other candidates were proffering.

[renie408]

19. That's a problem...I actually think they probably ARE rich enough to

benefit from the GOP being in control. She is a CPA that worked high up at Turner before she got sick and my BIL is a lawyer. They live in a really nice house outside of Atlanta and pretty much support both of their kid's families.

I will say, though, that while that might be the thing that sways my BIL, since she became sick my sister has gotten REALLY active in charity stuff.

[gateley]

22. Well they sound like good people, and I have hope that once they

hear the message we're bringing, they'll come around. Let us know! :hi:

[renie408]

24. I am going to let things settle, stop bombarding her with emails and call her

this weekend. I don't want to stalk her right back into McCain's arms. Hanna is supposed to hit Atlanta this weekend, so that will give me an excuse to call her. Not that I really need one, but like I said, I don't want to look like a political stalker to her.

[gateley]

28. Good strategy -- Just be there if she has any questions. :-) nt

[jberryhill]

29. It's not the only thing that matters, you know

From the numbers I've seen thrown around, I would probably "benefit" more from McCain's ideas on taxation than Obamas.

But the money thing is just not going to matter if the country continues to slide into the shitter.

[renie408]

34. For my sister, I think you are right. For my BIL...maybe not.

He tends to be one of those "every man for himself, make your own way" people. Which is COMPLETELY ironic because his father was rich, paid for all of their cars, vacations, etc until he died and then left them a shitload of money. My BIL has never had to worry a day in his life.

My sister, on the other hand, comes from a more modest background. Our family was solidly middle class, she had to work her way through school, etc. She has also become very active in her church and in charity work. I think the social issues will resonate very loudly with her.

[jberryhill]

46. Ah... a "self made man" he is....

Yeah... I know the type.

I'm doing well. There was a lot of work involved, a lot of ups and downs, a lot of being in the right place at the right time... but MOST of all, it was living in circumstances where there were opportunities to get a decent education and in a family fortunate enough to have health care. Anyone who has done well HAS to recognize those circumstances, and also HAS to recognize that whatever good fortune they have encountered, the access to those opportunities is by no means equal.

The GOP message plays well to those whose conscience would otherwise convict them that the circle of opportunity and the support of everyone to achieve their full potential must encompass us all. It's a group project.

[CrispyQ]

40. Remind her that inflation & a poor economy will cost her way more than taxes.

A bad economy will eventually affect even rich people. They may not feel it as soon or as badly as the rest of us, but they will feel it.

[jberryhill]

47. Right

I live across the street from an elementary school. Those kids are going to be paying everyone else's social security someday.

[Tesla]

2. I had one of the mom's at school yesterday say it has changed her mind

she wasn't going to vote for Obama, but now she questions McSame's decision making.
Go Sarah!!

[BeyondGeography]

3. The real-life stuff always trumps policy

Cuz it's real.

[AlCzervik]

4. it's not a non starter, the kids at my daughters school are talking about this.

Her class is full of 13 and 14 year olds and this is a story to them and has become yet another teachable moment for me. Today in her advisory they will be having an open discussion about this.

[vaberella]

8. My high school is probably defaming the girl. I went all girls catholic school.

There was rampant teen pregnancy and they put the fear of sex in the hearts of those who came into the school virgins. This is going to be an issue across the nation in all high schools.

[AlCzervik]

9. that is the truth, it's become a hot topic at school already.

[renie408]

13. My 17 year old son said that his AP history class talked about it for almost the whole

class time. He said it was pretty much 70-30 against Palin. He did say that the kids that were PRO-Palin shouted the most and had to be told by the teacher to settle down several times. Since we live in upstate SC, I felt like those numbers were pretty good. I also got a kick out of the GOP kids being the most fervent...more to lose!!

[AlCzervik]

16. i'll be honest, i didn't think the kids in 8th grade would even know about this so bad on me

for selling them short, they are aware and they are interested. It also did my heart good to know how many of the kids love Obama, the highschoolers that are old enough to vote wore their Obama shirts on Tuesday as well, i thought that was sweet.

[Sweet Freedom]

31. My daughter's friends are interested in this as well.

(Now, mind. you, my daughter is in elementary school and obviously not old enough to vote.)

Seems that many of my daughter's friends are no longer allowed to watch Zoey 101 because Jamie Lynn Spears is an unwed teenage mother and according to their parents, a bad role model. My daughter told all her friends about Pailin (including Bristol's pregnancy) and now the girls are all for Obama and want their parents to vote for him.

[genna]

49. Wow! I haven't quite wrapped my head around this in high schools.

If our current day conservative Christians were alive when Mary popped up pregnant and it wasn't Joseph's baby, what would have happened to Jesus?

At some point, parents need to relax. If their children find themselves in Jamie Lynn Spears shoes, I think pregnancy would be the last issue they would need to tackle. The pregnancy is more symptomatic than any moral arguments a parent could make.

[vaberella]

5. People don't talk about it, especially the GOP because it pisses them off.

You can definitely see it when Bill Bennett was on CNN. The guy was ready to have a fit. It really damages the message of the party with this thing that happened. And for many they can't stomach the fact that they've given an extremely important seat to someone who's a transgressor.

I think the base will start falling away one by one.

[ErinBerin84]

6. interesting....thanks for sharing!

[SayitAintSo]

10. Palin has turned my Wing-nut Neice to look at Obama

Also my wingnut brother andsis-in-law are upset about the Palin choice as well. Not sure if they will turn tho'. They are concerned about the vetting - as well as my niece. Very interesting...

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. Yes. Exactly. The GOP supporters are predominately stupid.

You can't get their votes, or alienate them away from the people toward whom their stupidity draws them, without making points in a language they understand.

Sarah Palin is enforcing a shotgun wedding on her sexually ignorant daughter and her boyfriend. That's bad. And it looks bad to the great unwashed masses.

[renie408]

15. My sister is a CPA and she was one of the chief accountants for

Turner Communications. My BIL is a lawyer.

They can be assholes, but they aren't stupid.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. Education does not equal intelligence.

We all to often waste our time trying to score points about the subtleties, nuances and details of public policy. Your sister doesn't care about that shit. She cares that the politician she's backing doesn't look ridiculous or wimpy because it's a bad reflection on her.

[renie408]

27. Gee, are you psychic? Cause now you seem to think you know my sister better than I do

from reading my second hand comments about her. You are TRULY amazing!!

Or a complete asshole...hmmm....sorry, I think I have to go with asshole.

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. Being an asshole is not the worst thing in the world.

I want to win. That means getting your sister to vote for Obama or at a minimum to stay home.

Either way, making Palin/McCain ridiculous works.

[renie408]

44. No, being an asshole is ALWAYS a bad thing. You can express yourself

without being an asshole. You may CHOOSE to be an asshole, but that doesn't make it OK. I choose to be an asshole sometimes, but I wouldn't defend the choice. It is simply viscerally satisfying and I give in to my more base nature occasionally. That doesn't make it good or OK.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. If being an asshole helps to win, I'm fer it. n/t

[renie408]

30. BTW....ATTACKING the people who are interested in checking out Obama probalby isn't

the best strategy for Dems.

Just thought I would give you that head's up...

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. I'm not primarily attacking. I'm articulating a strategy which reaches them.

Politics isn't conducted in the rational parts of their brains. In them, it's conducted in the reptilian parts. They vote for the one which their instincts suggest promotes survival. The ridiculous candidate doesn't engender that kind of trust.

Their gray matter is dedicated to other tasks.

[renie408]

42. You do get that you are as bad as 'they' are, right? With all of your titanic intellectual might

the best you can do is lump ALL Republicans together and assume they have identical reasons for being Republicans and identical mental capacities.

I think I have anecdotal proof that all Democrats are not particularly intelligent.

Keep posting. I need some more.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. We're good guys. They're bad guys.

Oversimplification? Perhaps a little. But it's important that we win, and simplification helps to focus. Your ad hominems directed toward me indicate that we need better focus.

Generalization is useful because we're not going to be able to execute multiple simultaneous victory strategies. Enough Republicans operate exclusively on instinct that ridicule of their candidates is an excellent electoral tool.

If Republicans and Democrats were operating with equal mental capacities, we would not be burdened with a $9.7T debt and Iraq.

They consider habeas corpus to be a bad thing. Nuff said.

[bushisanidiot]

12. Palin's family values are HORRIBLE. This IS information that the nation

needs to know about her. How can she be expected to be a responsible commander in chief if she can't even make every day decisions about her family.. such as the CHOICE to talk to her kids about birth control methods? Teaching abstinance only is IRRESPONSIBLE of a parent. If my daughter turned up pregnant and I had never talked to her about condoms or the pill, I would blame myself for what she had to go through. Thankfully, I HAVE talked to her and I know I won't be in the situation Sarah Palin is in now.

Talk to your kids, parents! Or end up like the Palins!

[genna]

51. I have to go with Carville on this one...not every choice a child makes is a reflection of teaching

Some choices are representative of the child. Should parents whose girls get pregnant wear a scarlet letter A on their foreheads?

I don't think so.

Parents who teach birth control can still have a hard headed child who has sex without condoms or the pill or just get pregnant anyway.

It isn't that easy.

[bushisanidiot]

55. You're changing the subject. Palin is a firm believer in abstinance only.

there's no way in hell she ever talked to her daughter about birth control.

it's not what right wing extremists do.

[renie408]

59. Exactomundo. And the referendum here is on abstinence only sex ed programs and whether or not

you should force kids to marry if that 'education' fails them.

[SuperTrouper]

17. Holy Cow! I was going to post almost the same thing! My two Hillaryite sisters are pissed with Sarah

they were flirting with McCain after Hillary lost the primaries and when he named Sarah Paleass for VP they were ecstatic until they learned about Sarah's anti-Hillary record and now with the pregnant daughter and the quickie marriage with Levi...LOL!! they even pasted Obama/Biden bumper stickers in thir cars in less than 24 hours. My sister L. said: What a moron McCain is! He has so poor judgment that it puts in question his mental stability". and my sister I. said: "Not knowing personally your running mate for more than 24 hours is ridiculous. Even Angelina Jolie had known Billy Bob Thornton a few months before marrying him. What a jackass"!!! That is why you see Hillary supporters moving...no, wait...running to Obama's camp after the Sarahgate exploded in their faces. :rofl:

[Arugula Latte]

26. I just got a weirdass mental image ...

McCain and Palin wearing vials of each other's blood like Angelina and Billy Bob

[Cha]

45. That's fair..

:hi:

[Arugula Latte]

54. ...

:hi: :hug:

[Princess Turandot]

18. When Huckabee was asked about the situation..

after expressing his approval of the kid not having an abortion, he immediately went on to say that he hoped that the news would not be taken as condoning premarital sex etc. I have to believe that there are others that think like him. Bringing the boyfriend on stage tonight for the family wave? That might just backfire a bit, no matter what people are saying in public.

[vaberella]

33. I think it's a dangerous move because she's publicizing her children.

But added to that, you can see that she's forcing children into a situation they truly can't comprehend.


These kids will totally enter the public eye and all those pics of the family in law to be that are on the net through the my space account will be on every news screen and article. Daily News will massacre that teenager they already started.


Sarah Palin is unfit even in this situation.

[Cha]

61. The kid's smart..

[Booster]

20. I have sent out so many anti-McCain/Palin emails that my

nephew, who was thinking about voting for McCain, answered one with "so in a nutshell, you're going to vote for Obama?" and I answered "and in a nutshell, if you promise to vote for Obama, I'll stop sending you these emails". He wrote back "haha. DEAL". Because of his house situation, he was reconsidering voting for Obama anyway because of the economy. So, emails do work.

[renie408]

21. LOL...me too! I know I have been blocked off the email lists of

half the people I know! Since I live in SC, most everybody I email with are Republicans. They have GOT to be sick of seeing my addy pop up...if they let come through at all any more!

[Booster]

32. And I have also noticed that before Palin popped up I was getting

anti-Obama email from 3 or 4 people. After the highly successful Dem convention and the Palin pick, I haven't received not one against Obama. One of my staunch repug friends not only used to answer my anti-Republican emails with one against the Dems, but he would send them to everyone on my email list too. I haven't heard a peep out of him during this entire campaign. He did IM me one day and say he couldn't stand McCain so I know in his gut he knows. I'm loving every minute of it, but I'm still afraid they will steal the election. The media is showing this race close, and a close election is a Republican win.

[CrispyQ]

43. This morning CNN showed Obama at 49% & McCain at 43%.

That's the biggest lead I've seen for Obama on CNN. McCain screwed up bad. Let's just hope it's not forgotten by November.

But yeah, I'm worried they'll steal it, too. Cheney did not amass all this power in the executive to hand it over to a dem.

[peaches2003]

23. I don't think there really are that many sane people,

especially women, who think of Bristol's baby and coming shotgun wedding as a great blessing like Palin is trying to promote. Everyone with a brain, other than the very most extreme pro-lifers, know it is a tragedy for everyone involved and will be a disaster. Palin is a freak. And, how can any mother drag her daughter out in public like she is doing for her own political gain? :freak:

[codjh9]

35. Cool! Amazing what it takes, or how LONG it takes, for some of them to SEE

THE LIGHT, but it does happen! I know former fundamentalists who are on our side. YES! :^)

[DeeDeeNY]

36. Maybe someone can send your sister Obama's convention speech

That really says it all --

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/content/acceptancespeechnd?source=20080829_OFA_ND

[FloridaJudy]

37. Something to point out to the anti-choice zealots

The number of abortions went down under Clinton, but not under Bu$h. Also, Palin vetoed funds that would have been used to help pregnant teens in Alaska. So, if they're genuinely "Pro-Life", and not just into forcing women to "pay" for the sin of being sexual, they're better off with us Democrats.

Having worked in women's health for over thirty years, it always amazes me how fast some of these people change their minds when they themselves are faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

[renie408]

38. That is one thing I can say about my sister...she has never been 'anti-choice'

She says she is anti-abortion. She believes you do everything you can to avoid needing to make that choice, but that women should be allowed to decide for themselves when it comes down to it.

[ThatsMyBarack]

48. "The straw the broke the elephant's back."

I like that! :patriot:

[renie408]

50. (me too :)) n/t

[redqueen]

52. Wow...

I knew this would be an unmitigated disaster for them.

[MindMatter]

53. What would you call her demographic?

What would your sister do different from Palin?

Is she saying abortion would have been a solution to consider, or is she saying she was just against the shotgun wedding business?

The press likes to talk about the fundies as if they are a monolithic group. Certainly at the extreme end where Palin and the the people driving the GOP live, that is true. They share a common credo of intolerance and closed-mindedness -- and they like to kill things with guns too.

But I'm not so sure how many people are that extreme. None of us likes the idea of abortion and we all want as few abortions as possible. But when you are talking about the life of the mother, that's too extreme for 99% of the people out there. When you are talking about rape and incest, that's too extreme for most people. And many of us want the ability to make our own choices in cases such as your sister's.

It seems to me that Obama/Biden need to make a very conscious effort to peel off the 99% of the people who are not as extreme as Palin and the people driving the GOP.

And it wouldn't hurt them to make the case of how many shotgun weddings are followed closely by divorce. Not to say that abortion and divorce are the same thing, but these really are personal, individual family situations -- just as the Republicans are all being trained to say about Palin. And as such, families must be able to make their own choices in these matters.

In the end, all we are asking for is exactly what the Repiblicans are saying about Palin -- the ability for the FAMILY to make their own CHOICES.

[renie408]

58. Her demographic is upper middle class white church goer.

She wouldn't have pushed an abortion, but she wouldn't have objected to it. She was flatly against the marriage. She literally sat through the ceremony and bawled. She went through with it, but she really sees it as having ruined her son's chances at success in life. Personally, I think that's a little extreme. But I will say he was a starting pitcher on the baseball team of a medium sized college in Georgia and all she talked about was him getting scouted by Tech. She is convinced that having to marry that 'gold digger' forced him out of college. I am not sure he would have made it into Georgia Tech no matter how good a pitcher he was, but I would not try to tell her that. I couldn't understand why, if he qualified to get in, they just didn't pay for him to go there.

Anyway, the girl's family thought they had a cash cow to milk. That one I know for sure. My sister's FIL was a big deal in some circles in their area and the few times I met the woman, you could practically hear the 'cha ching' in the background. She squoze my sister's family to pay for a GRAND wedding, which was a farce. My sister has a pretty rabid outlook on this subject.

[Lucky 13]

56. Encouraging 17 year old kids to get married because of pregnancy is asinine.

I suppose there is some chance the pregnancy resulted despite the use of birth control methods. MAYBE the condom broke.

What is far more likely is that these kids were too stupid enough not to use a condom and their parents were too stupid to think sex education (beyond ABSTINANCE) was important. And these same stupid people think it's a great idea for a pregnant 17 year old who has never lived away from her parents, to not only have and keep a baby, but marry the ignorant redneck that knocked her up!

For the sake of argument, say I had a 17 year old daughter that got pregnant and our family was staunchly pro-life. If the father is like that Levi kid... proud of his own rednecked ignorance and actively telling people he doesn't want to have children, I would be telling her to get as far away from that jackass as possible. If he wants to see the kid or pay child support, great. Other than that, what parents would encourage their daughter to marry a guy like that?!? You are dooming your kid to a miserable and ultimately failed marriage!

[Lucky 13]

57. What kind of person encourages their 17 year old daughter to marry a jackass like Levi?!?

I suppose there is some chance the pregnancy resulted despite the use of birth control methods. MAYBE the condom broke.

What is far more likely is that these kids were too stupid enough not to use a condom and their parents were too stupid to think sex education (beyond ABSTINANCE) was important. And these same stupid people think it's a great idea for a pregnant 17 year old who has never lived away from her parents, to not only have and keep a baby, but marry the ignorant redneck that knocked her up!

For the sake of argument, say I had a 17 year old daughter that got pregnant and our family was staunchly pro-life. If the father is like Levi, proud of his own rednecked ignorance and actively telling people he doesn't want to have children,... I would be telling her to get as far away from that jackass as possible. If he wants to see the kid or pay child support, fine. Other than that, what parents would encourage their daughter to marry a guy like that?!? You are dooming your kid to a miserable and ultimately failed marriage!

Horrific parenting AND judgment.

[renie408]

60. The jackass who doesn't recognize he's a jackass. n/t

[doublethink]

62. Thanks for posting this ..... we need to keep this .......

pregnant teenage daughter story out there no matter the difference of opinions on it. Peace.