Kerry was right on Vietnam. We should combat Bush with that.

[Armstead]

Kerry's anti-war activities are being thrown back in his face as proof that is is "weak on national security" and "against the military.


That's hogwash, and Kerry (and the rest of us) should turn it around on the Repukes.

Vietnam was Iraq in a different guise. The same mentality of a stupid war based on lies that ultimately WEAKENED us as a nation and had the opposite effect than was intended.

Vietnam weakened the ability of the US to effectively challenge communism, and the fact that we got bogged down in that quagmire played into the hands of that opposing power. The war continued long after this became obvious, and it was extended because of lies and ego and "fear of losing." But we lost anyway.

People like Kerry who opposed the Vietnam War were absolutely right. Even the ones who led the war acknowledge it was a failure, and was based on a series of lies.

Flash forward, Iraq is the equivalent of Vietnam in the conflict between the US and terrorist Islamic fundamentalism. Iraq is a conflict we entered into on false pretenses, and it is bogging us down and making the US less safe.

Kerry ought to point that out, and not allow Bush to say it is a necessary part of the war on terror. Iraq is a distraction from the real needs of national security, and is self defeating.

Kerry was right and courageous in opposing the Vietnam War. He'd be right now to point out that Iraq is really Vietnam 2004.

[volosong]

1. We Need to Fight The Vietnam Smut For John Kerry

And John Kerry needs to turn the anger and enthusiasm that he displayed on the Smut Boat smears to discussion of the real issues. If he puts the same passion into his presentations, that will go along way towards debunking the misconception of Kerry as a weak leader.

My take on the Vietnam Mess is as follows:

Triple amputee and Vietnam hero Max Cleland sat in his wheelchair in the broiling hot Texas sun waiting for George W. Bush to do the right thing. In his hand was a letter signed by 9 US Senators, all war heroes, entreating the President to specifically ask the swift (sieve) boat vets to cease their campaign of lies and smut.

This was no “stunt,” but an valid appeal against an unprecedented campaign of political poison designed to distract the American people from the real issues. George W. Bush hid, as he always has, whether from military duty in Vietnam or from discussing his record of a dismal economy, environmental desecration, social unrest, and of course IraqNam. Yet, in tricking and fooling the American people, George W. Bush has no equal.

A transcript of Kerry’s 1971 testimony proves that the attack ads are totally misleading: Kerry relates only hearsay recollections; he blames the nature of war and the country and not the soldiers for any atrocities; he decries search and destroy tactics and free fire zones; and he opposes continuation of an unwinnable and morally questionable war...Conclusions later adopted by a majority of Americans.

If there had been more people with John Kerry’s insight and courage, there would be fewer names on the Vietnam Wall. And if attempting to staunch the needless hemorrhage of American blood is “treason,” then cowardice and hypocrisy are virtues and genocide is charity.

Tragically, many Vietnam veterans were treated despicably after returning from Vietnam. Those shameful events rather than John Kerry are the likely cause of their pain. America and not John Kerry owes them an apology. Just as it is politically stupid for most of the middle class to vote for Bush, similarly in view of Bush’s record on veteran’s affairs, any veteran supporting him is administering a "self-inflicted wound."

[jean]

2. some think the Rove will next attack with testimony from vets

who say NV torturers played tape of Kerry's speech for prisoners and this was horribly demoralizing and they hatehatehate JK.

I'm confident Kerry will counter this, if it happens. Remember, he held off using ad money in August.

Kerry's hammer will fall in September and bush43 will be in the autumn of his stay in the White House.

[against all enemies]

3. Vietnam is a distraction to Bush's shitty record. Start attacking Bush;s

failed policies, stop with the Vietnam stuff. Bush wins when the debate turns from the last four miserable years.

[Armstead]

4. Use it against Bush.....

The GOP is going to keep making it an issue -- especially the subconscious context of "weakness" and "anti-American -- so Kerry has to turn it back against them.

Vietnam was stupid. Bush was stupid for going to war against Iraq. If Bush keeps making stupid mistakes like that, the world will go to hell in a handbasket.

The strongest thing Kerry has said in the campaign is "Strength without wisdom is no virtue."

It took guts for Kerry to come out against the Vietnam war. And Kerry was right. He has to use that to his advantage, instead of dodging it.

[A_Possum]

5. Vietnam = Iraq

It's utterly relevant TODAY. Those who are trying to tear down Kerry's anti-war record as "unpatriotic" are those who want us to stay in Iraq till Doomsday (which could be sooner rather than later at the rate we're going.)

It's not "history," it's the perfect mirror that shows the fake strength and murderous stubbornness of Bush vs Kerry's ability to think and act on the truth.

Those who claim Vietnam is "old news" haven't learned anything from history either, it would appear. Bush walked us dead-on into EXACTLY the same no-win situation.

***********

Kerry, the Congressional Record, 1971:

"Mr. Kerry: Well, Senator, frankly it does not appeal to me if American men have to continue to die when they don't have to, particularly when it seems the Government of this country is more concerned with the legality of where men sleep than it is with the legality of where they drop bombs. (Applause.)...

...But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring...

...But I think if we can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrel programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey."

[Cocoa]

6. that's not Kerry's position

it's quite clear that Iraq=Vietnam is not Kerry's position, and there's approx. 0 chance he's going to change that now. If he was going to take that position, he would have done it during the primaries, when he had serious opposition on the war.

[A_Possum]

8. You don't have to say Iraq=Vietnam in so many words

That's why using Vietnam is the way to go. Vietnam is the mirror. Talk about VIETNAM and show how Kerry stood up and tried to get us out of THAT quagmire, and people can make the connection to THIS quagmire themselves.

It's my belief that Kerry is smart enough to know that he has to be president before he can openly try to get us extricated from that unholy mess.

That's one reason that the pug revisionist historians are working SO HARD to make it sound as if Vietnam was different from what it was. They want to make it sound like it would have been a success if they'd had their way, and it was unpatriotic to protest then, so it's unpatriotic now.

[Armstead]

9. He has to make it his position. It's ju-jitsu

He's stuck with it. So he has to use it to his advantage.

The onloy alternative at this point is to waffle and continue to allow the GOP to combine his positions to create the illusion of a weak waffler.

Unfortunately if Kerry lets them get away with that, they may be correct.

[kentuck]

7. Iraq should be tied to the Viet Nam debacle....

How many lives will be spent trying to justify it?