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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:18 PM
Original message
With one foot out of the door, This is what I will say.......
One of the reason McCain picked Palin is to try to draw attention to Barack Obama as being young, unexperience and charismatic.

The GOP is already giving us their talking points, if we had bothered to notice.

They top that off with saying that she has "more" executive experience than Barack.

So, what are our comebacks?

They should be:
1. Barack Obama contested in our elections and won and was thoroughly vetted. He interviewed for the position before he earned it. Sarah Palin did not contest in our elections, did not win, and has not been vetted by the voters. In America, the people decide who has enough experience, and we decided that Barack Obama did. We are not coming to that same conclusion about Gov. Palin.

2. Barack Obama was President of the Harvard Law Review, another elected office that required executive experience to get the job done. In addition, to being highly educated at the best schools in this country, he managed Project Vote in Chicago in 1993, and via his executive and organizing skills, helped put a Democratic Senator into the senate. That's call results.

3. Barack Obama was a State Senator for 8 years. He drafted laws and pass legislation. Again, he was voted into that office.

3a. Barack Obama has also been a law professor, and a civil rights attorney. Both job lend for much experience like the working knowledge of our constitution.

4. Barack Obama became a United State Senator 4 years ago. He has passed major legislations, and has sat on major committees, both on domestic and foreign issues. He has worked closely with heavyweights and has passed important bipartisan bills that affected 300 million Americans.

5. Barack Obama started a presidential campaign from scratch, and in so doing, created the best ran political organization our history has ever witnessed. For nearly two years, using vision, innovation, intelligence, endurance, tactical genius, and a strong macro management style, Barack Obama has shown us all exactly what his executive skills are. He defeated a well oiled political national political machine in the process, with all of the deck stacked against him. The convention that the Democrats pulled off is a full demonstration of Barack Obama's leadership abilities as well as his executive acumem.

6. Also Barack Obama is the author of 2 best selling books, which has earned him millions and wrote a speech that electrified the nation 4 years ago....

7. Barack Obama his highly educated and has gone to some of the most prestigious schools in our country.

8. Barack Obama has been endorsed by a wide array of newspapers editorial boards, national politicians, political interest groups, and many many more. In other words, he comes to us highly recommended.

To conclude; Barack Obama is a naturally born statesmen and leader who has worked and fought hard to prepare for the job that he is currently applying for.

The bottomline is that Sarah Palin's name should not be put in the same sentence as Barack Obama when it comes to accomplishments including Executive experience. In fact, anyone that tries it should be laughed at uncontrollably, once no. 1 through 8 and whatever anyone else comes up with, is clearly stated.

This is what we should be writing to all of the newspapers about. The fact that Sarah Palin may be a nice person and a loving mother (as is Barack a wonderful father) but that doesn't change the fact that she is a lightweight. Two years of being the governor of a sparsly populated state cannot change that.


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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Damn straight! K and R.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I compeltely agree with you & I've been using them everywhere.
Thanks for posting this FrenchieCat.

:kick:
K&R
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countingbluecars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Your voice is needed here. n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I just get so pissed off when I see us reacting instead of thinking.
We need our talking points and thus far, I have yet to hear a Democratic Operative use them. This is how we need to disseminate. Otherwise it will indeed look like this woman has as much of what it takes as Barack Does.....but unfortunately for John McCain, she doesn't even come remotely close....and to say so is an insult to Barack Obama...which of course they enjoy more than anything.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R! I want the smartest MoFo's in the room!
:kick:
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. .
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks Frenchie - any one of us could have
put together this list but, you DID. Instead of wasting our time on Palin. Thanks :hug:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R Great work and common sense, too FrenchieCat!!!
Thanks for posting this!
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ChimpersMcSmirkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bookmarked, K&R!
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm so borrowing this
along with Quixote1818's points, I'm gonna be so prepared.

Thanks genius! :hi:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Please do! And not, not a genius.....not even close!
Write to the papers, call into the talk shows, post this at KOS, etc., etc., etc......

steal it, cut and paste it in all of the forums where they have something to say that stupid.

We must stop this crazy talk before it even gets started.

I have heard 4 talking heads thus far saying this....she's got executive experience, and he doesn't.

That's a gross, gross distortion and an outright lie.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I'm going door to door Monday - voter registration and to talk to folks in my precinct
I'll be prepared fer sure
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RavensChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. Amen to that!!!
K & R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much, Frenchie! I'm gonna save this one!!

:kick:
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Top Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. You'll damn skipping.....
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obama is running against McCain, not her. n/t
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. that's not my point. Of course we know that. But the talking heads are exactly
doing that...comparing her resume to his....which is ridiculous on its face and than some.

The point is that there is no comparison to make, and this is how it is articulated. That's the point.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. Palin has some kind of "Journalism" degree. That's it.
I got immediately insulted by the attempt to compare Palin with Obama. The comparison should be made between her and Biden. She gets wiped off the matt though no matter which one you compare her too.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You wouldn't know that, though, by listening to the talkings heads
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DogPoundPup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. They picked Palin because she won't buck Papa McCainiac
Thad Cochran (MS): "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper."-

Col. Larry Wilkerson, aid to Colin Powell: "No dissent, no opinion to the contrary--however reasonable--will be entertained."-

James Dobson, Focus on Family founder: " has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language."-

Pat Murphy, former editor of Arizona Republic: " has a terrible temper, a guy who whines and pouts unless he gets his way. McCain has a temper that is bombastic, volatile, and purple-faced. Sometimes he gets out of control."-

She's with McCainiac to serve and perform as his perfect stepford v.p.-that's it!
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. on your Pat Murphy comments especially
I'm really curious if there was video coverage of Cindy McCain getting her wrist hurt by a handshake at whatever rally it was reported to come from. It seems that there would be coverage at a rally of any sort and I don't that I ever saw it. I'd be really curious if it exists since it was reported to have been caused by a handshake.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. who is that a pic of in your sig?
only time i ever saw that pic was on maddiejoan posts
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Strong. One More.

Great list. I'd just add one more, which pretty much ends the discussion.

Palin' has more executive experience than McClown, too. Perhaps she should be the presidential nominee.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. But he was a POW, so he's automatically overqualified.
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:16 PM by FrenchieCat
:sarcasm:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
19. this is that who would rather have a beer with moment.
the issues are the only things that should matter, not how nice a person is or if they have a family.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey
Hey!

"One foot out the door"?

Um...there's only room for one asshat-goodbye-thread-dropping fuckwad of a dinkbag. And the post is taken, thank you.

Get your goddam ass back to...whatever it was you were doing...or don't bother if it got boring...so you could maybe do something else, or nothing at all if you're feeling tired...basically, I'm ordering you to exercise free will and judgment in your own sphere, AND I MEAN NOW...but don't forget that no one here gets out alive...except for me, of course, but I always wind up coming back in the end, cuz I'm a cheese-ass and that's how it is.

Foot back in door, you.
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. N.B.: Do NOT compare Obama to Palin. Compare Biden to Palin.
Obama is running against McCain, and McCain is not fit to be president. Let's not be distracted.

We should be comparing Biden with Palin, not Obama. She was picked to be a distraction from the Republican who is running for president, namely McCain.

We mustn't fall into the trap of comparing Obama to Palin. This lowers Obama's image, and distracts from McCain's weaknesses.

Compare Obama to McCain, and Biden to Palin.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I'm not...they are....and so they must be set straight.
This is the answer to be given to shut them up when they mention executive experience.

Folks going door to door canvasing for our guy will hear the talking points.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Very well put.
Sarah Palin wasn't chosen for her real experience, which is sketchy. She was chosen because she makes it possible to use the talking point that she has "executive experience". She makes it possible for them to use a simplistic talking point that is literally true but meaningless.

It's what they do. They use short concise statements that require longer thoughtful responses to rebut. But it looks like it isn't going to work this time. The American people are finally catching on.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. Very well put.
Sarah Palin wasn't chosen for her real experience, which is sketchy. She was chosen because she makes it possible to use the talking point that she has "executive experience". She makes it possible for them to use a simplistic talking point that is literally true but meaningless.

It's what they do. They use short concise statements that require longer thoughtful responses to rebut. But it looks like it isn't going to work this time. The American people are finally catching on.
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Actually...I think
You are absolutely right on point two "They use short concise statements that require longer thoughtful responses to rebut" and our party needs to get better at that. But I have to disagree on point one. I don't think her "executive" experience was even a consideration beyond the the obvious "well, she is a governor" observation. I think she was selected for exactly the same reason Dan Quayle was 20 years ago--to appease a shaky fundamentalist base that has shown more than a little lack of confidence in the standard bearer. Those folks don't give a rat's ass about experience, they only care that you have consumed all the kool-aid and believe what they believe. Of course, I'm sure someone in the room thought they would some benefit that she is a woman.

I am a Christian, too, but a pragmatic one that does not arrogantly assert that I have any better idea of the "right" view of the world than anybody else. I find the fund-raising and empire building aspects of most organized religions hypocritical.

Sure they would like to get some points cause she's a governor that in a couple instances has taken "Maverick" positions... but really, she is a staunch fundie nut job (who they will try to make appear more mainstream) that wears her NRA card on her sleeve and has a vagina. That's why she's on the ticket.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. I should have been clearer.
I didn't mean that that was the only reason she was chosen. I was speaking in the context of experience. A major reason she was chosen was to appease the fundies, but they wanted a fundie appeaser who could also be portrayed (disingenuously) as having more experience than Obama.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
26. thanks FrenchieCat.
i've noticed how the republicans eliminate obama's 8 years in the state senate when talking about his experience.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Not surprising at all. It is unfortunate as well that the media allows them this omission....
considering that they know better. It only shows that the media is in the tank for the Corporate Candidate, John McCain.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. I thought you left. (eom)
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is the best post of yours that I have read
I like it 'cause it goes after Republicans, and actually says positive things about Obama. Refreshing new style.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. Great post K&R
eom
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. k&r -- all excellent points! Thanks for your good work!
And, um, you're not really leaving are you? You are one of the brightest lights of this place, it's unthinkable! You've been the most wonderful steadfast Obama supporter on the whole board. We NEED you!

:cry:
sw
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R and bookmarked..
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. Excellent list, but I offer an addition/refinement concerning "executive experience"
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 07:05 PM by Jim Lane
One reason to prefer a candidate with executive experience is that it gives the voters a basis for evaluating how that person handles such responsibility -- notably hiring and firing decisions, the biggest difference between executive and legislative work. (Yes, legislators have staff, but not in comparable numbers.)

So, how do we evaluate Palin, based on her executive experience?

Troopergate I is well known. There's substantial reason to believe that she fired Public Safety Commissioner Monegan because he wouldn't pervert his office by firing a trooper to help Palin's sister in her custody battle with the guy.

Troopergate II deserves more attention than it's gotten because the facts are more clear-cut. To replace Monegan, she appointed Chuck Kopp, whose record in Kenai included a letter of reprimand for sexual harassment. Palin said she thought the Kenai investigation had cleared Kopp of all charges. Her spokeswoman put the blame on Kopp for not having told Palin about the letter. Nice background checking there, Governor. Kopp lasted two weeks and got a $10,000 severance payment.

Palin's executive experience also includes her stint as Mayor of Wasilla (1996-2002):

In January 1997, Palin fired the Wasilla police chief, citing a failure to support her administration<16>. In response, a group of 60 residents calling themselves Concerned Citizens for Wasilla discussed attempting a recall campaign against Palin, but decided against it.<17> The fired police chief later sued Palin on the grounds that he was fired because he supported the campaign of Palin's opponent, but his suit was dismissed when the judge ruled that Palin had the right under state law to fire city employees, even for political reasons.


Yes, Palin put political considerations above competence. The foregoing paragraph is from Wikipedia, where you can read the numbered footnotes to see the sources: in the Sarah Palin article. Her misconduct as Governor with regard to the Public Safety Commissioner has .

In discharging the limited executive responsibilities she's had, Palin has demonstrated that she's not ready for prime time.

ETA: I forgot to mention that she initially lied about Troopergate. (Here's a in the Washington Post.)

If you just go by length of executive experience, we should prefer Nixon/Agnew to either of this year's tickets.
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childslibrarian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
36. How about
There's a difference between a Idaho State Sports journalism degree and a HARVARD Law Degree!!! Give it a break!!! What is the DNC thinking of? Are they thinking? Whay a bunch of wimps! (sorry, I'm old and I'm sick of this. Why is McCain allowed to be rude and underhanded and we aren't?)
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
37. she's a CREATIONIST.
A bible thumping flat earther.
End of argument.
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GreenEyedLefty Donating Member (708 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. She's Rick Santorum
Only with boxy jackets, glasses and an updo.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R No, no, don't you go!!!!! You meant "out the door" just for a ...
... Sunday stroll, right? You didn't mean you were going to take your intelligent voice away from us here?

Do stick around. Frustration is the order of the day; worry goes along with it. The time for us to go (somewhere) is if we actually "lose" to the mental deficients who have taken over this country. We owe our brain cells to the future of this country. Yours are great ones!

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
40. K & R - Good work - nt
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. 2 and 7 are dupes
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bagimin Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Absofuckinlutely!
good job.
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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. I saw/heard several GOPers
repeating that "more experience than Obama" which infuriates me, but what I wanted ANYONE to say as a follow up question is "why didn't she run for President?"....
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. K and R
Nicely done! :hi:
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margotb822 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
49. And, if we're going to use her "executive experience"
she has more than McCain, so where does that argument even go??

It's nonsensical because it's not how we decide who's most qualified for the office.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
51. Here....I've tightened up below. Good to print out, I think.....
John McCain is running against Barack Obama. As a 72 year old man who has fought four bouts of Melanoma, his task at hand, and his most important executive decision to make was to select a Vice President that would be ready for the job of running this country if needed. With his choice of Sarah Palin, he demonstrated that his motto is "Win First, Country be damned".

To compare Sarah Palin's experience of running a town of 8,000+ people into the ground, or governing Alaska, the 48th most populous state in the nation for not yet 2 years to Barack is improper, as she is to be compared to Joe Biden, since they are running for the same job.

Alaska experienced an oil boom shortly after she was sworn in (just see when the price per a barrel of oil shot up), and to credit her is ludicrous. She may be a nice person who hunts and fishes, but this is a big election which will not be about small things such as who can shoot a gun the furthest. Maybe Americans can have it all, but I question the wisdom of the mother of 5 young children believing that she can give them what they truly need (especially since one as special needs) and work a job that, to be done well, is a round the clock proposition. Which rationally leads one back to the sanity of the person that believed that this was the setup for a good situation.

In reference to Barack Obama's qualification for becoming President, the first is that he contested in the primary elections, was thoroughly vetted, and won his party's primary. In otherwords, he interviewed for the position, and got the job because he earned it. In America, the people get to decide who has enough experience, and it was determined that Barack Obama does.

Twenty years ago, Obama was elected President of the Harvard Law Review, an office that required executive experience to get the job done. The Presidency of the Harvard Law Review is not simply a title, meaning, the President actually has work that he/she does. In addition, Obama has attended the best schools in this country, is highly educated, and holds a Law Degree. Barack turned down prestigious offers, and instead managed Project Vote in Chicago in 1993. That year, via his executive and organizing skills, Barack was seen as key in putting another Democratic Senator into the senate. That's call results. 1. http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993... /

Barack Obama was also a State Senator for 8 years. Again, he was elected to that office, and his district's constituents numbered in the hundreds of thousands. He drafted laws and passed legislation that effected the 12+ million who resided in the state of Illinois.

Barack Obama has also been a law professor at the University of Chicago, and a civil rights attorney. Both jobs provided much experience and the requirement of a fluent working knowledge of our constitution and a thorough understanding of how government works.

Barack Obama became a United State Senator 4 years ago, and represents the 5th most populous state in the Nation. He has passed major legislations, and has sat on major committees, both on domestic and foreign issues. He has worked closely with those associated as the top leaders in our government and he has passed important bipartisan bills that have affected 300+ million Americans.
Further, Barack Obama started a presidential campaign from scratch, and in so doing, created the best ran political organization our history has ever witnessed, shattering records after records.

For nearly two years, using vision, innovation, technology, intelligence, endurance, tactical genius, and a strong macro management style, Barack Obama has shown us all exactly what his executive skills are. He defeated a well oiled political national machine in the process, one that the Republicans have yet to defeat (not from lack of trying), doing so with all of the deck stacked against him, and the race card being played by the media at every turn. The unified convention that the Democrats pulled off, despite the constant 24/7 media hype promoting chaos, is a full demonstration of Barack Obama's leadership abilities as well as his executive acumen and skills at being a unifyer.

Also, Barack Obama is the author of 2 best selling books, which has earned him millions and he writes his own speeches, one which electrified the nation 4 years ago. His most recent speech was seen by over 40 million households, beating the viewership of the opening Olympic Ceremony or American Idol. Further, his convention speech was done in front of 85,000 citizens; the largest live audience in the history of American politics.

Beyond that, Barack Obama was endorsed by the largest array of newspapers editorial boards, national politicians, political interest groups, than any other primary candidate to ever run. In other words, he comes to us highly recommended.


To conclude, Barack Obama is a natural statesmen and leader with the type of executive experience that counts; see above. The fact that he was able to gather 200,000 Germans while many were carrying American flags, to come to see him speak is a testament and a preview of his potential to rally our allies to our side. Obama will be in a strong position once elected in dealing with countries who may be of threat to us....because he is the person best suited to unify nations that will stand with us against such threats. Neither John McCain nor his Vice President even come close. period.
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. thanks for this-- wish i'd seen it before
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 10:52 PM by CitizenPatriot
i spent hours writing the email i posted here...:-)
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CitizenPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. here's an email I wrote to a fence sitting friend
It;s long -- but feel free to cut and paste as you will...some of it is taken liberally from a great blog

http://canarypapers.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/here-it-is-sarah-palin-a-job-description-for-vice-president/

RE: Palin for VP


Hi sweetie,

I've written you a rather long response-- when I said I've been researching this stuff, I wasn't kidding! Here are my thoughts so far, though I don't promise they are in perfect order or will not change over time.

These things are basically what she is known for or has said in interviews that you can watch on Youtube. I actually researched papers in Alaska from the past several years as well as watching tv interviews with her and reading things in NY Times, CNN print version on their web, local Alaskan TV which I found on google, blogs, etc. I haven't cited everything, as these were really notes for myself which I decided to share with you. You can verify these things easily, however, using google.

I know she's currently being investigated for Troopergate, which at its core is about her use of her public office to pursue a private vendetta by firing a public safety commissioner. I've listened to two of the tapes from that investigation where you can hear people who work for her trying to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. She is currently being investigated for having another trooper fired for not firing her brother-in-law in this same scandal. Apparently during the investigation, she lied about pressuring the guy to do so, and then replaced the guy she fired with someone who had to resign in two weeks because of sexual harassment problems, thus calling into question her judgment on this matter. The investigating committee asked her for emails (which she had cc'd to her husband for some inexplicable reason) and she refused, citing executive privilege (sound familiar?). It hasn't been explained why she cc'd her husband if they were privileged documents, though there are interviews with people from Alaska who say he attends most high level meetings of hers. This is an alarm bell to me, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

A second scandal ensued when she was mayor of Wasilla (population just under 5,000 at that time and now being reported as 9,600 because that is its current population), there was an official action to try to get her recalled from office. Sarah Palin fired the city's police chief and the library director without warning, accusing them of not fully supporting her efforts to govern. Irl Stambaugh and Mary Ellen Emmons said letters signed by Palin were dropped on their desks telling them their jobs were over as of Feb. 13 and that they no longer needed to report to work. (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=AS&p_theme=as&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F79408854D0C20B&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM). The recall action was not successful-- They needed 100 signatures and only got 60. To put that in perspective, remember we're talking Wasilla Alaska here, not Los Angeles. This is in a town where only 1100 people voted in 1999, so I imagine getting petition signatures ain't easy. In any event, 60 voters represents about 5 percent of the voting population, in just the first couple of days the effort was launched. Compare this to the Gray Davis recall, which took monthsto get only 6 percent of the voting population, before really gaining traction. So they were only 40 people from getting a recall on the ballot after a couple of days, and given the nature of the offense, the citizens may have voted to remove her.

If you read the court documents, it seems the previous mayor had agreed not to fire without cause, but Palin chose to fire these individuals because they supported her competition, even though they both expressed that they had discussed this with her and felt it was resolved. This smacks of cronyism, the very sort of brazen power moves and inept government we are trying to get away from -- not the change we so desperately need.

At any rate, the question looming right now is "Did John McCain vet her properly?" He only met her once prior to the announcement and one has to wonder if it was wise to pick someone with these two scandals in such a short career. Her plus, obviously, is she reaches the base of the Christian right who have not been too fond of McCain's lukewarm support of their beliefs and she will probably do well on the campaign trail (the girl did win Miss Congeniality in Wassila) and she seems to have a natural charm like a Dr Phil type.

However, was his job to choose a person who bring him votes, or a person who could govern our country?

Her husband works for BP (foreign oil co) but is not now working for them since she was asked to be VP. she has sat on many oil committees. Some in Alaska say he was a lobbyist, however, it is my understanding that many people work as unofficial "advocates" which is probably more what he did -- in other words, they have access to the government official who has authority over the issue the company wants to sway, so they advocate for the company. The campaign rhetoric has suggested her husband was a fisherman, and indeed I believe in the off season of the oil company he does fish (but he also makes a good living from the oil company). Obviously, McCain wants to present her as one of the people, to counter the 7 houses multi millionaire debacle, and so wants to emphasize her husband's fisherman status as opposed to lobbying status. Either way, though, I'm afraid for me she is too much one of the people, and not enough of qualified candidate.

Indeed, Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era.

So unconventional was McCain’s choice that it left students of the presidency literally “stunned,” in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. “Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who’s of presidential caliber,” said Goldstein. (http://canarypapers.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/here-it-is-sarah-palin-a-job-description-for-vice-president/)

Yes, she wants to teach creationism in schools, at least in Alaska.

In terms of her national political and or international experience, I watched an interview where she said she didn't focus on Iraq or international politics and thus wouldn't answer a question on Iraq, as she was focused on local politics. Fair enough, for her job as governor, but traditionally, VPs have experience in the senate and with constitutional law, as that is their job. They need to interpret the constitutional law on many issues.

It's important to note the difference in governing a state the size of Alaska as compared to a national position which at least exposes one to national level issues, let alone international issues. And Alaska is a much smaller state than Illinois, the political base of Barack Obama, whom Republicans have repeatedly criticized for being inexperienced, having served nearly four years in the U.S. Senate after eight in the Illinois state Senate. She was the mayor prior of Wasilla, Alaska, which had a population of around 5,000 during her time in office. If elected vice president, Palin would appear to have the least amount of experience in federal office or as a governor since John W. Kern, Democrat William Jennings Bryan’s 1908 running mate, who had served for four years in the Indiana state Senate and then four more as city solicitor of Indianapolis. The Democratic ticket lost to Republican standard bearer William Howard Taft and running mate James S. Sherman by an Electoral College spread of 321-162. “The first thing that hits me,” said Stephen Hess of the Brookings Institution," is that it suggests that John McCain is a gambler. This is a high roller decision.” While I admire the spirit of a gambler, I don't think I want that temperament in the highest office of the land, during these war-prone days. (http://canarypapers.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/here-it-is-sarah-palin-a-job-description-for-vice-president/)

"Regarding constitutional law, there are many in this country — myself included — who felt a certain thrill this past May, when Sen. Obama announced that, during his first 100 days in office, “I would call my attorney general in and review every single executive order issued by George Bush and overturn those laws or executive decisions that I feel violate the constitution.” Being a Harvard law school graduate, and serving as the president of the Harvard Law Review, and teaching constitutional law for 12 years affords him the credentials to not only aspire to such a task, but to undertake it with some competency. Indeed, some would rightfully claim that the six years (is it 6 or 8? I need to check) Obama served in the Illinois State Senate, followed by nearly 4 years in the U.S. Senate, only add these credentials.

I like the idea of a President being well-versed in the U.S. Constitution and constitutional law. After all the oath of office for President of the United States includes the following words: ”I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." (http://canarypapers.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/here-it-is-sarah-palin-a-job-description-for-vice-president/)

The U.S. Constitution comes up often during the course of this business: appointing cabinet members, ambassadors and Supreme Court judges; meeting with leaders of foreign countries; making treaties; proposing new laws, and so on.

The resumes of most, if not all, former Vice-Presidents over the past 50 years included a law degree and/or military service and/or enough experience in the U.S. Senate or Congress to capably perform these duties. Even Dan Quayle, with whom she has been unfairly compared, had a law degree and was twice-elected to both the U.S. Congress and Senate before being chosen for the VP slot.

Job description of VP

One is to become U.S. President in the event of the President’s death or resignation. The second VP duty is to act as President of the U.S. Senate — casting a tie-breaking vote in the event of a deadlock, and certifying the official vote count of the U.S. electoral college (which is why previous work in the senate is usually seen as an asset for the VP).

My initial reaction to the other rumors is that Alaska as a whole is a pretty small place, and having lived in a small town, I imagine things get done in a bit more causal way there. I'm not saying she should have taken that money, but that given the small amount of info on this matter, I am not allowing it to play into my thoughts regarding her candidacy right now. If more comes out, fine. But for now, I think it can be explained as small town politics.

For me, the issues are her experience, her abuse of power investigation, her lack of knowledge re the constitution and national/international issues, and lastly her policies on some issues (she sued the Bush admin to get the polar bear taken off endangered species list, the shooting animals from planes for sport, the creationism in schools, etc). I know McCain has promised to get Supreme court justices in who will overturn roe v wade, and while I thought vetting people on a particular vote was not smiled upon, I understand that what their party wants of them. My issue with this is that the BEST justice get the job, no matter how they vote on any one issue. I think when we start cherry picking based on one issue, we overlook the larger impact and importance of the jobs we're basically hiring someone to do.

For me, it comes down to wanting someone who can think clearly, reasonably, rationally and calmly under pressure.

That is what I've seen in Obama and it is why I have chosen to work to get him elected. I know that no candidate is going to fix all of the problems they'll inherit from the Bush admin, and indeed, the problems are vast and many. So I've broken it down for myself into: restoring the 3 arms of government and restoring the constitution, reestablishing checks and balances, the economy, and someone who will be able to negotiate and create diplomatic discussions with nations who are developing nuclear power.

I appreciate your sending me that email....These are tough times, and we all need to be as informed as we can be so we can vote our conscience.
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