? for the Ladies of DU.

[johnaries]

OK, I am a guy. And as much as I have tried to "walk a mile in your moccasins" I know that I haven't walked in your heels (how do you do that?) or even your Birkenstock's. But I do at least TRY to understand.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like McCain's VP choice is a "slap in the face" to women everywhere.

Yes, she deserves a great deal of credit just for rising to the position of Governor. But, it seems like she did so not by advancing Women's issues, but by her husband's manipulations. She is definitely not the Stepford Wife like we have seen with Pickles, but considering the issues she's been having with her out-of-control powerful husband, it just appears to me that she is more of a pawn than an "actualized" woman.

Which seems to me like the GOP is saying "see, ladies, if you just do as we Men tell you to do you can be successful."

She is embroiled in several scandals, which seem to me as a result of her Husband's hubris and not her's. She embraces philosophies that are based on ancient Male expectations - for instance, claiming her grandchild as her own rather than admitting it is the child of her unwed teenage daughter. She's being investigated by indepent cousel - basically because of the actions of her husband.

It's obvious that McCain picked her to try and pick up disgruntled women's votes. But it seems to me that she doesn't reflect any of the values that Hillary did. In fact, she seems to me to be the anti-Hillary.

It seems to me like although she is "female" by gender, she is the antithesis to everything Hillary stood for.

Which is why I perceive this choice as a "slap in the face" to every Hillary supporter and every feminist in the US. It's like John McCain is saying "hey, I picked a woman, and she's a hottie! What's your problem?"

To me, it just reinforces Obama's message that McCain "just doesn't get it".

Am I wrong? Is there something in play here that I am missing? I would really like some input from a different perspective. Like I said, I'm a Guy. I haven't been through what you Ladies have been through, and as much as I may try I can never understand it like you can.

Thanks!

[CoffeeCat]

1. Is that four-month old baby...

...her daughter's child?

Is that really true?

[AuntPatsy]

2. No I don't believe it is

[johnaries]

22. Can you elaborate? Please? Really, I just want to understand. nt

sorry, responded to the wrong reply.

I blame it on Bacardi! :toast:

[Left Is Write]

3. No one knows whether that's true or not.

It should not be stated as a fact.

[vaberella]

7. Let's not bring that trash to this thread.

Yes, it appeals to some people. But it's soap-ish and something Obama will never participate in so we shouldn't waste our time. If you're so curious send it to the National Enquirer and maybe they'll find out the "truth". Here it's straight politics.

[MichiganVote]

9. I'm sorry but I do want some resolution on this and despite the sordid

portrayal of this issue, I think that people will want to know.

[CoffeeCat]

17. Hello?

You tell me not to "bring that trash into this thread."

The OP said, "...for instance, claiming her grandchild as her own rather than admitting it is the child of her unwed teenage daughter."

I didn't "bring" the "trash", I simply commented on what the OP said. I asked the OP, if what they had stated, was indeed, true.

I asked a question. OK?

Maybe you should read before you launch into one of your condescending, ill-informed diatribes.

[johnaries]

25. I apologize, but it brings out the differences

between the Left and the Right. On the Left, in the first place,we would have tried to educate her about her body and about her options. So hopefully she would have enough education to be responsible in the first place and not have gotten pregnant. Unfortunately, she did. A Leftist would have embraced her and tried to help her. A Right Winger would try to cover it up, make her ashamed of her own natural instincts, and put her, the child, and even their own lives and careers in jeopardy just because they didn't want to admit that "people are human".

Progressives are all about helping people. Conservatives are all about preserving "appearances".

[johnaries]

16. I'll leave it up to you.

When she did her Vogue photospread, she would have been 7 months pregnant.

There were some reports that her teenage daughter was pregnant, although they were never confirmed. Then, she "had a baby" even though she never showed any signs of being pregnant. And suddenly, her teenage daughter was never pregnant.

I know every woman's body is different, and there have been cases when women gave birth unexpectantly,

But I remember the "old days" when teenage girls would suddenly "disappear" for some BS reason, and then reappear with a new "sister". Even though the mother never showed any signs of being pregnant.

Look at the Vogue pics. Does she look like she's in the 3rd trimester to you? Personally, I don't care, except for the hypocrisy and the fact that she still supports "abstinence only" education and is anti-choice.

It could have been avoided if she simply taught her daughter to say "wait, do you have a condom".

It may just be tabloid gossip - but seriously, look at her photos. The accusations may be wrong, but it's easy to understand why they are being made. But the "coincidences" are just too convienient. "Governor's unmarried daughter is pregnant" - "Governor secretly gives birth"...

[question everything]

26. Gossip and innuendo. We really should be ashamed for concentrating on this (nt)

[johnaries]

29. Let's not get distracted.

My question has nothing to do with her personal choices. My question is whether or not you agree with the source of her decisions.

Ignore the tabloid aspect. I asked a very sincere question. Don't cheapen the question, or else you cheapen both of us.

[hedgehog]

4. You mean John Mccain doesn't get it because he thinks this

is the same as this?

[Eurobabe]

20. Oh yeah, THAT.

That is what is most manipulative. At least give us someone from the Republican party who is close to equal with Hillary, such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson, etc. (I am NOT advocating Hutchinson, just saying that she has the experience and Palin is a tool & political lightweight when compared to some that have been in the Repube party for a long time)

[vaberella]

5. Their using her reproductive organs to manipulate America's vote.

It's more than a slap in the face. I'm fuckin' disgusted. I'm hurt, I'm insulted. And I'm even more pissed at Palin for playing the tool in this shit. She's a TROPHY candidate and she's willing to use herself in such a way.

Her qualifications are mediocre. She doesn't have a single sort of proper relationship with McCain to show some sort of friendship. Further more, she's playing along, but calls herself a feminist.

I don't tolerate my vote or America's vote being manipulated.

This is called gender power politics.

You can read more of my thoughts below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6808980

[az chela]

15. What she said!!!!!

[sammytko]

18. Yeah - what she said!

100%

[johnaries]

21. Thank you! That's exactly what I was thinking.

It's nice to hear it from someone else.

Since I'm a little drunk, I'm going to go a little further.

For the last 16 years, I have worked in a "front-line customer service capacity" for the same company, although in several different departments. I have worked for both women and men, but to be honest most of my favorite superiors were women. Although right now my immediate supervisor is a woman and her immediate supervisor is a man, I have equal respect for both of them because they both "get it". Because both of them have moved up from the "front lines" and both of them have a full understanding of both "upper management" and "troops on the ground".

But back to why most of my past favorite supervisor's tended to be women:

Well, plain and simply, the women had to work harder to prove themselves. It wasn't because of any "natural" talent. It was simply because they had to work harder to prove themselves. Which made them better.

I was a Six Sigma Black Belt, which meant I worked closely with the Executive Committee. That was a very eye-opening experience. Luckily, I was able to see the hand-writing on the wall and moved to another position before the decision came down that "thank you very much, but we've milked enough out of you as we can. I hope you didn't expect this to be a permanent position!" Like I said, I saw it coming, so I had already accepted another position. I miss my very smart and intelligent friends that "were allowed to accept other career opportunites."

But, throughout my career from the "frontlines" to the "ivory tower", my mentors were predominately women. There were a couple of smart men in there. Looking back, I would say that of the truly "inspirational" people that I would consider my "mentors", about 20%-25% were male. Personally, of the lessons I learned, about 75% to %80 came from the inspiration derived from women in supervisory positions.

Almost 95% of my negative experiences came from male supervisors.

I'm just sayin'

[blonndee]

6. First of all, I'm a woman, not a lady. And I don't own a pair of heels.

Yes, this Sarah Palin person is an insult, but not to women only, but to all thinking Americans. McCan't picking her is as much of an insult to women as it is to all Americans, much as Bush's pick of the laughable Harriet Meyers was. She is Brownie and that Monica woman both, just two easy examples of the cronyism rampant in this sick, sick administration, and shows yet one more way that McCan't would love to follow the practices of his mentor, George W. Bush. It is indeed laughable and sad that McCan'twould DARE to pick her, and it's clear why he did so. It not only shows his own ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity, but also what a hack she herself is. It shows that everything one might have suspected about McBush is indeed true.

[johnaries]

27. .

:applause:

Thank you! and well said!

:patriot:

[mucifer]

8. Obama is not trying to get the female DU vote. He is going for the liberaterians

and the right wingers. He is trying to energize his base and bring back disenfranchised repubs and I think it's going to work. It's like mccain said "Look over here at the shiny object" and the media flocked their and these disgruntled repubs who are far right wing are seeing a woman who looks and talks like themselves. They might have stayed home. He's also gonna now get lots of votes that would have gone to barr.

It's gonna be ugly. I think it was a great choice for them.

[tbyg52]

10. Yes it is a slap in our faces

And I haven't worn heels since I was old enough to know better.

(You do know toe shoes were invented by a guy...?)

[Cleita]

11. I don't think we know everything.

Her husband is evidently half native American. Most native Americans give women equal say in governance. However, I do understand the Christian aspect of being obedient to your man that she and her husband may believe in and the whole covering up of the daughters pregnancy because of small town values. (What would the neighbors think?) It's all so 1950s but the first time I went up to Idaho, and got some culture shock, I met another Californian who had lived their for awhile and I asked her what was wrong with the locals and she just basically said that they were backwards, still living in the last century and it seems odd to us because we had evolved beyond that. I'll probably upset some people now with what I have said but I don't know any better way to put it.

[MichiganVote]

12. If Palin is the Republican ideal of a liberated powerful woman...

then we need to just throw them out of the country for good. And as far as I'm concerned it will be a cold day in hell before I EVER consider this woman as the model who broke anything but her hymen.

[southerncrone]

13. Yep, it's insulting. But Repukes always treat women like

trophies or doormats.

[Blondiegrrl]

14. I think it's insulting because it makes it VERY CLEAR that McCain thinks women are interchangeable.

He's appealing to the disgruntled Hillary supporters who are miffed that Obama won the nomination, and he thinks they'll vote Republican simply because he put a woman on the ticket. Never mind that that woman is ultra-conservative and the opposite of Democratic values. In short, McCain thinks women are stupid.

[eshfemme]

19. Pretty much. You sir get extra points for being able to empathize enough to get what the problem is.

I've stated my disgust with this pick multiple times. It's also sad that this has knocked the far more dramatic events of the DNC off the radar of the MSM because this is such a feel bad moment rather than a feel good moment. I'd rather feel happy to be American rather than a pissed off feminist.

It's just sad that not many women who are supposedly feminists realize just how much of the concept they do not understand.

[NashVegas]

23. It's a Taunt

That exposes certain fissures of the Democratic primary cycle.

[justiceischeap]

24. The slap in the face for me is that she comes across as a pawn

We don't know enough about her, hell she could very well rise to the challenge and be a great politician (if you liked her viewpoints). However, right now, she appears to be a pawn for the McPOW campaign and that cheapens, IMO, what women are fighting for on the National stage.

What excited women about Hillary, love her or hate her, is she has shown she is a capable PERSON who just happens to be a woman. Palin is a woman who may or may not be capable and she's in the place she is because, first, she's got a vagina and second, she excites the base.

We will see what comes of this in the next couple of weeks. If what we are reading is true about her vetting process and that the investigation into her alleged Ethics violations is to be completed 4 days before the election, she may have been a HUGE mistake that sets back women on the National political stage; which of course should be another concern for women.

[Errrica]

28. It is!

Granted, I'm young, but I'm not stupid enough to vote for the Repukes simply because there's now a woman on the ticket, who McCain has met ONCE. It's only to gain votes. I'm so pissed about this, I really am. I'm disgusted that he's getting any sort of praise for this whatsoever. I swear, if the Repubs win this in November, I'm moving far far far away.
Imagine if McSame won in November, then died. Not that I want to see either of those happen, God forbid, but seriously... This Alaskan governor pawn who none of us have EVER heard of will be running our country. I would truly be terrified.

Edit: Alas, a breath of fresh air. They're now going to stop talking about this VP bullshit and move on to Barack's speech from last night.

[sunnybrook]

30. she is an insult to Republican women too

Of course, it is totally insulting. she is a woman but not "for" women, much like Clarence Thomas is not "for" African Americans. She has alot of gall to quote Hillary. This coming from the party that HATES Hillary, and said they wished Hill had run to energize their base. But more than that, though I am a deeply partisan Democrat, I am so offended for all of the accomplished Republican women who were passed over, such as Olympia Snowe, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Condeleeza Rice, ELizabeth Dole, etc.... this woman is an insult to women, this is Ann Coulter as a small time mayor, who has been governor for less time than the campaign has been going! This is so insane. But never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter. To do so is done at our peril.

[stillcool]

31. I think it's insulting..

she was not picked for anything other than her gender. There are plenty of smart, competent, capable women that could easily fill the shoes of a VP, but no one of that caliber was picked. Not only is it a slap in the face to women, it is a slap in the face to the people of this country that such a choice would be entertained as the next in line to be the President of the United States. It's like Barney Fife in the Oval Office.