The Smear Against Kerry Will Backfire. Kerry Has Handled This Perfectly.

[David Zephyr]

The American people KNOW that George Bush is behind the smear of John Kerry's service in Vietnam. Polling now reveals this.

The American people KNOW that George Bush dodged the Vietnam War by entering the Guard through privilege and about his possible AWOL status.

The American people will figure this out: Bush smeared Kerry's true war record because he didn't have one himself.

John Kerry has handled this assault well. I believe this will truly backfire against Bush once the the dust settles.

BIG AND WEIGHTY FACTS: Millions of U.S. Jobs have been exported forever. Unemployment continues. The War in Iraq is a disaster. Bush lied about WMD's. The Deficit now threatens Social Security.

John Kerry has stood tall throughout this entire, ugly affair...revealing the kind of man that he truly is.

This has made Bush look very, very small...and Kerry very big.

This will backfire against Bush.

[iwantmycountryback]

1. The backfiring of the SBL's

And the recent poverty, job loss, and healthcare numbers are very bad for Bush. Kerry has to make people remember those numbers after the convention. Bush will say how great the economy is and Kerry has to be out there saying "get back to reality George"

[A_Possum]

8. I've sure learned a lot about John Kerry

From researching his congressional testimony and reading the Brinkley bio.

And it's all good. Really fired ME up.

*********

Kerry, the Congressional Record, 1971:

"Mr. Kerry: Well, Senator, frankly it does not appeal to me if American men have to continue to die when they don't have to, particularly when it seems the Government of this country is more concerned with the legality of where men sleep than it is with the legality of where they drop bombs. (Applause.)...

...But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring...

...But I think if we can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrel programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey."

[volosong]

49. Stink Boat Lies Have Still Done Real Damage

Regardless of who thats what about Bush's role, the smut ads have shaken loose many conservative democrats and some moderate republicans who were leaning toward Kerry.

That kind of voter leakage in a candidate constantly defending his biography is not a good omen.

Kerry needs to get out there and speak only about the issues and ignore the smut vets. They should be pursued by others in the Kerry organization and anyone else willing to help.

[henslee]

2. I agree... due to my unyielding faith in the American character but....

I simultaneously fear the great American Media filter.

[mccormack98]

3. Then you weren't watching Olberman last night

He scored Kerry a knockout against Bush and the Swifties. It was all Kerry, all good.

[henslee]

4. It happens I did watch him but his is just one show. I am a cautious

cheerleader. Didnt think my post was pessimistic just think its a no holes bared texas cage match between the truth and the media filter.

[David Zephyr]

15. Henslee, Don't Forget This Either:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html

[Cha]

36. First time I'v seen their pictures...

Those are some mean lookin' Mother*uckers!

[David Zephyr]

16. Olberman Has Been Very Effective Delivering Facts Without Shrill.

The truth is getting its boots on.

[henslee]

22. the truth is getting its boots on... i like that.

[merbex]

5. It has hardened Democrats...

Ask yourself if one Democrat has changed their vote as a result of this smear

Labor day will start the fall campaign in earnest and unless the Repugs have anymore dirty tricks- we'll get back to the real issues

This too shall pass

Stay positive

[Dob Bole]

6. Do you have polls?

On people thinking that Bush is behind the swiftvets, that is.

If that's the case, this is awesome.

[DemMother]

13. I think the LA Times polls showed it. I'll see if I can find it.

[faithnotgreed]

14. cnn poll out yesterday said 52% believe bush is behind it & 56% want him

to denounce the ads....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. ask and you shall receive

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x782012

[David Zephyr]

40. Hi Dob Bole. Here's Still Another Poll That Americans KNOW It's Bush.

Call me naive, but I believe this story has turned into a MAJOR negative for the Bush Campaign.

And I think that Senator Kerry looks pretty damned good right about now.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040827/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_vietnam_opinion

[hedda_foil]

7. We haven't given him credit for one major portion of this.

In case you haven't caught on to this yet, the ONLY way the media ever prints anything to counter the GOP spin machine is if the Dems do all the investigative legwork and put the evidence in a fancy package for the media. The whores never do their own investigative work anymore. So we need to give a big shout out to the campaign staff who have been brilliant at getting evidence of dirty dealings and lies out there.

[xrepub]

9. Good in office , poor in campaign

I fully support Kerry, I think he will make a great president. I think it would be a disaster if bush won in 2004.

That said, I think that Kerry is running a terrible campaign. Remember, this election will mostly involve the same voters that gave bush almost as many votes as Gore in 2000.


I don't think it is possible to underestimate the stupidity of the American voters.

[NightOwwl]

19. Many people were fooled by his so-called

Compassionate Conservativism.

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

[ibegurpard]

10. And all those worrying about the polls now

remember that it's going to take a while for all of this to sink in. They shot their wad WAY too early on this and not only is it being discredited, it will have the added effect of helping to innoculate Kerry against future attacks of this sort.

[GOPAgainstGW]

11. Kerry's Perfect and Wait Until Oct 1 for Big Bombs on Bush-SBVT

and watch the GOP fall apart in their own little game!

[whalerider55]

12. give!

[LuminousX]

17. I'd like to point out

that if Kerry has some big ammo to use against Bush, he will wait until after the RNC to use it. Using it now allows Bush to use the RNC to repair some of the damage. Using it after the RNC puts Bush on the ropes and the defensive.

[goodhue]

18. I agree wholeheartedly.

Kerry is sitting pretty.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ibegurpard]

21. Your observations MIGHT have merit

if everything were over and done with. However, it's ongoing and we still have two months left. Your analogy doesn't work because we don't know the end of the story.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. Yeah. Kerry screwed up Iowa too.

:)

[bobbyboucher]

25. You wish.

Big time?

Your clit is showing.

[mccormack98]

26. Don't forget: there is a lot of vicious fighting going on ...

behind the scenes. Ginsberg resigned. GINSBERG.

This week, the Kerry campaign has been engaged in some serious mind-fucking with Bush.

Poor George is trying real hard to cram for his upcoming convention. He has holed himself up down in Crawford. Just needs a little quiet time to get ready. Probably has a tutor, maybe even flash cards. And each day that f*cker John Kerry keeps doing stuff to upset George! First, he files that really unfair lawsuit that causes that one swifty guy to resign. And then Ginsberg has to resign. And then George is forced out of his bungalo to say "We outta get rid of all ads - including THAT ad." And then that a**hole Cleland goes down to the ranch and tries to hand out that letter.

My God, don't folks know that George is trying to prepare? IT'S TROUBLE EVERY GODD*MNED DAY! And the thing that is really upsetting is how Kerry is getting McCain in the mix! Kerry puts up an internet ad showing John McCain in 2000 getting all up in George's face. Kerry knew that ad would not sit well with McCain! It's almost as if HE WROTE THE AD JUST FOR MCCAIN! What an a**hole. So Kerry offers to dump the ad if only McCain would go talk to George about the whole Swiftboat thing. Doesn't McCain git it? This Swiftboat thing is working! And now Bush has to disavow it or McCain is going to go mental and take Kerry's side on this issue. And then the next thing you know it's Bad Bush this and Smearboy that. What a bunch of a**holes. Don't they know that presidentin' is hard?

[mbali]

30. Better analogy

An analogy would be that JFK's swift boat was tooling down the Mekong when it was ambushed. Rather than react aggressively as he would have in VN, Kerry ignored the small arms fire directed at him and continued his blissful boat ride as planned. He ignored it, that is, until the small arms turned into RPGs, mines and bombs, his boat was hit and started to sink. Then, finally, with agonizingly slowness and lack of passion, and seemingly without much interest in doing so, Kerry began to return fire.


This would be a good analogy if Kerry's real enemies were the Swift Boat Veterans. But they are just low-level snipers that Bush put out front to draw Kerry's fire and wear him down while leaving Bush unscathed.

But Kerry was too smart to be drawn off course by this amateurish diversion - this tactic might fool a novice but not an old warhorse like Kerry. So, instead of turning his boat around, ramming it into the hapless decoys, and leaving himself and his crew beached and useless (with nothing but a bunch of vanquished Swift Boat Veterans to show for his efforts), as Bush had hoped he would do, he continued up river, knowing that in a very short time (in this case, only a matter of days), his real enemy would be drawn from cover. And as soon as the enemy - Bush - was exposed, Kerry aimed his boat right at him.

And Bush is running like a scared rabbit.

Don't underestimate this soldier. He knows just what he's doing.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. wow weigh in once in a blue moon with a negative post about Dems

[MirrorAshes]

48. Oh please.

Seriously, get a grip. The SBVs are already well on their way to being a laughing stock, and a majority of Americans believe this is Bush's doing.

Also, the media is talking about the PATTERN of smears like this. That is extremely important.

[skip fox]

24. Swift Boat Resource File . . . Now at DU!

A solid overview of the Swift Boat Story including

I. Introduction and History of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (hereafter SBVT)

II. Recent Accounts of Other Swift Boat Vets and Others
--a. Vets who Were Kerry Contradicting the SBVT
--b. People with Special Information Contradicting SBVT
--c. New Vets Contradicting Kerry

III. New Charges against Kerry About his Service

IV. Changes or Qualifications in Stories of Individual SBVT

V. Points of Collusion Between Republicans and the SBVT

Broken into separate posts (for ease of jumping) and all with easy-to-use hot links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x70318

Please inform me of new stories and links as they occur and I'll up-date this on Monday or Tuesday. (Sooner if some SBVT stories break over the weekend.

[rockymountaindem]

27. Kick

The "I'm panicking" threads get hundreds of replies. It's important to get this argument out too.

[mbali]

28. I wonder how many of those second-guessing Kerry's strategy

have ever run a political campaign?

Nothing like a bunch of armchair political quarterbacks lecturing a decorated Vietnam War hero, who has never lost an election, who came from behind and kicked the asses of every other Democratic candidate (including mine) only a month and a half into the primaries, on how his strategy for addressing attacks on his service, honor and integrity just doesn't pass their muster.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. Who R U

Democratic candidate?

Just curious. You don't have to tell, if you don't want to.

[mbali]

31. Not a candidate

But I've worked with enough of them to know that the successful ones are better equipped to map out their campaign strategy than those of us second-guessing them on our home computers.

[loudsue]

32. What did you say???

"who came from behind and kicked the asses of every other Democratic candidate (including mine) only a month and a half into the primaries"

Yep...that's what I THOUGHT you said! So........are you just messin' with us?? Did you join the primary fray?? Which one might you be???

Oh! That the "mb" might stand for Moseley-Braun!! If only!!!!

:shrug: Just curious! :silly:

:kick::kick:

[mbali]

33. I was right in the middle of it . . . I was an Edwards supporter.

[mccormack98]

34. I second that

I think a lot of what is going on has nothing to do with the public. Kerry's actions are aimed straight at the Bush campaign. The actions are designed to upset Bush and cause him to make mistakes like the one they made on Wednesday when Cleland showed up. If you recall, Cleland announced that he was on his way to Crawford and the Bushies scrambled to get out a letter of their own to Cleland. Bush's letter defended the rights of vets to criticize Kerry. That was not smart: it put Bush in the Swiftboaties' camp and further legitimated Kerry's claim that Bush is behind the smear. The Cleland visit enabled Kerry to define Bush.

The Kerry campaign knows what it is doing. The Cleland move was very, very smart.

Can you imagine what the Bushies are going through? They are acting scared. Senior campaign lawyers like Ginsberg don't just resign because of appearances. They resign because the campaign is scared shitless of getting nailed. They probably have lots to be scared of - like a suppoena of White House phone records. Kerry's legal filing could set suppoenas in action and cause bad things to happen.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. Hear, hear.

Lots of armchair quarterbacking going on. I, for one, have never managed a national campaign, although I've done grassroots stuff off and on for years; and since I don't have access to the information and the contacts the Kerry campaign has, I don't feel I'm in a very good position to judge its strategy or its tactics. I sit at the computer and read Internet stories and blogs, and I watch cable news, and this does not make me an expert. So although I might worry sometimes, I'm not very likely to post a comment that starts out: "Why doesn't the Kerry campaign..." or "Kerry is making a huge mistake..." or "The campaign is doomed," or anything of that sort. We can do far more good by keeping up the hard grassroots work and not prophesying doom.

[mbali]

45. Right back atcha!

Agree 100%

[Proud2BAmurkin]

35. BACKLASH Already started. New poll

Almost half in a poll taken this week say they think the president's campaign is behind the ads that try to undercut Kerry's medals for heroism while just over a third think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is an independent group, the National Annenberg Election Survey found.

<snip>

The public's belief that Kerry did not earn his medals grew to 30 percent when the attack ads got widespread publicity on cable news networks. But that number has dropped to 24 percent now.

[mccormack98]

37. Good find

The Kerry campaign is turning the issue into weapon. The Kerry campaign smells blood.

[David Zephyr]

44. Proud2BAmurkin, Great Find! Do You Have A Link?

Here's still one more poll that the American People KNOW it's Bush personally behind the smear against Kerry.

[KittyWampus]

42. Thank You. The Negative Posters Are Becoming Disruptive.

and there's no question that some are purposely so.

[gollygee]

43. I think you're right so far

but there's another wave of it coming. The after-the-Vietnam-war Kerry-a-North-Vietnamese-war-hero talking point.

But hopefully that will be handled as well as the rest.

[kentuck]

46. I agree David Z, to a large degree...

But I believe this was a one-time shot from the Bush campaign and it will not work again with the same effect or same surprise. They pulled the trigger too early, in my opinion. They should have waited until the last week or two in October. There is too much time left in the campaign for this to be the determining factor. It will only backfire on them if they try it again. That would be quite a gamble - not that they might not try. Kerry will keep preaching that they are good at smears and they have proven that in the past, and over the next few weeks, this reality will gain footing, in my opinion. In this respect, it will backfire on Bush.

[David Zephyr]

47. I Think That Kerry's Campaign Deserves A Lot of Respect Right Now.

Thanks Kentuck. They took a really, really hard hit for nearly two weeks...and it mostly came from the media. Kerry and his campaign sucked it in and dished the shit right back at them.

I am impressed. And I agree with you that Kerry will keep up the "fear and smear" charge (which was a brilliant phrase, by the way).

All the latest polling reveals that the Swiftboaters are sinking in their own lies and, in my opinion, they look like a bunch of really angry and jealous jerks.

[Zen Democrat]

50. The people who watch cable news AREN'T the Undecided.

We can piss and moan about CNN and all the others ad infinitum, but the fact is this:

The Undecided aren't watching. The true believers on both sides are the cable news junkies. The Undecided will make up their minds based on the debates.

Take a deep breath and have a margarita.

[WI_DEM]

51. I hope it does backfire on Bush

because it deserves to, but I don't think Kerry has handled it superbly. He did not want this to be the issue for the entire month of August and driving the dialouge up to the RNC. He did not want to lose gains he was making with veterans. Pure and simple he only responded two weeks after the attacks began to get tons of free media because his internals were finally showing the damage being done. He should have responded right away--the way Bill Clinton would have. Yes, people know the republicans are behind these negative ads but if history is any guide negative ads do work especially if they take on a life of their own without any response. Dukakis also finally responded to the "Willie Horton" ads in '88 but like Kerry he waited until the damage was done. Voters then, too, thought the GOP was guilty of negative campaiging but they also bought the notion that Duke was soft on crime.