When is it gonna stop being all about the Clintons?

[sfam]

Yeah, OK, so the media is driving the story. I get that.

But here we have Hillary putting her name in nomination, with weeks of speculation that she wants votes counted for her.

We have whining about her not being vetted AT ALL, even after she in essence told Obama not to

We have yet more issues with Bill and his unhappiness. First he cannot even say Obama is qualified, and now he's whining about his speech assignment

We still have close Hillary supporters telling anyone who will listen that Obama still has not done enough to placate her.


Yet at the same time we're supposed to believe the Clintons are doing everyone possible to help Obama win...Bullsh!t. Yeah, some of this is driven by the media and McCain camp, but where there's this much smoke, there is certainly some fire. Bottom line, the Clintons have done far less than anyone would have wanted to create a unified front. Yes, Hillary has been out campaigning, and finally seems to be stepping up against McCain in recent weeks, but wouldn't it have been nice to have taken care of this stuff well over a month ago?

Bottom line, it still seems to be all about them.

[leftofcool]

1. Listen to the media hype and bullshit much?

[janx]

2. Please read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6738556

[sfam]

8. I think that's a fine reply, but the fact that there is a need pretty much states my point...

I just don't buy that this whole last few months has been entirely manufactured by the media. Nor do I buy that Bill Clinton's "I will not say he's qualified no matter how many times you ask the question" interview was manufactured by the media. There IS smoke here....the media are merely reporting and amplifying it, not created it all.

[janx]

12. Well, I gave you the ultimate sources.

If you want to believe what the media is dishing out instead, have at it.

I choose not to.

[sfam]

18. Well again, this is called damage control. The question AGAIN is why its still needed...

You seem to believe the media has created all of this, whereas I seem to believe that the Clintons are partially responsible for this tripe and are doing so to keep whatever bargaining power they think they still have. I think its a REAL stretch to think both camps have been signing kumbaya for the last few months. If this press release convinces you that such is the truth, I can only hope the rest of the country will believe press releases as fast as you do.

[janet118]

44. This just in from the Democratic Convention!!

Noun, Verb, the Clintons!!

[sfam]

45. That's a funny line!...even though its at my expense.

I'd rec you if I could

[roguevalley]

56. I want it all about the ticket yesterday. this healing crap disappoints

me about women. what the hell? poor little things. get out of the way. its time to move forward.

[jakem]

3. didnt you get the memo? it is about the keys now.

[snooper2]

4. In about 4 days

4 long fucking days

[IndianaJones]

5. puma...you. nt.

[sfam]

10. Me??? Quite the opposite actually - and obviously so nt

[IndianaJones]

11. obviously. nt.

[mkultra]

50. im not so sure

[Bonobo]

6. No, it isn't. It is about believing the MSM's bullshit or finally, truly admitting to yourself that:

We are being, and have been, assaulted by corporate media propoganda.

It is true and we (most of us) are still believing it.

They tell Americans what other Americans believe. But. They. Lie.

[MGKrebs]

7. When all y'all stop obsessing about them.

Let it go.
Barry can handle it.

[me b zola]

19. Barry Manalow can handle it?

Well that's a relief because Senator Barack Obama has a lot on his plate.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. That's a little harsh isn't it?

[BeyondGeography]

37. More a commentary on the media than the Clintons

[blondeatlast]

13. When the m$m can no longer manipulate the likes of you.

Truth hurts.

[sfam]

15. I'm fairly sure the media is not targetting folks who post on DU...

I'm fairly sure you know this as well...

[monmouth]

14. If he must speak, I hope he receives "polite" applause and is shown the door.

[Imagine My Surprise]

16. When the Pope introduces his gay lover to all of Europe n/t

[SeaLyons]

17. Media Hype is geared

toward the uninformed, gullible souls of the world. If the shoe fits.....

:shrug:

[sfam]

25. The media also likes to be the mouthpiece for others' leaks...the question is whether...

the Clintons have anything to do with the story about Bill not being happy with his security speech, for instance. But again, its fairly clear from Bill's interview in Europe that he's FAR from an Obama supporter. That wasn't a media manufactured issue - that was a truly shabby response by Bill that drove it.

So with the latest, again, I think its fairly naive to simply believe all of this is media manufacture - that there was NO leaks from the Clinton camp either on the vetting thing or with the latest speech issue, or...

Naive is as naive does...

[SeaLyons]

27. so what,,,,

Bill Clinton is not just a disquished President, he's a human being. I don't care what the man says. Neither should you. The media runs with every goddamn little piece of bs they can dig up. I pay absolutely no attention to it.

If you enjoy bashing the Clintons, then I guess you're always going to be able to find something said or done by them to fuel the fires. Whatever!!!!

[endthewar]

20. MSM is praying for a floor fight

and won't be content until Hillary is squaring off against Obama.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

22. McCain thanks you

you are doing EXACTLY what he wants and EXACTLY what Obama and Clinton are fighting TOGETHER.

EXACTLY.

[sfam]

26. Of course...my apologies. I thought this was a discussion board. I didn't realize we can only...

post positive kumbaya posts now. You wouldn't happen to show me a board where democrats are able to have open discussions about things, would you?

[mkultra]

51. This is a site just for you

http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/

[LostinVA]

30. Yup -- CDS is a terrible thing

[bdamomma]

23. the Clintons have had their eight years

enough, anyway for these thugs in the media to drive a wedge into the party they will do it, eff them.

[mkultra]

24. dont start this crap. who are you anyway

Did you come here just to create problems?

They key to peace is not to start shit. So im giving you the alert.


Your just as bad as a PUMA.

[sfam]

28. I'm someone who contributes monthly to Obamas campain and volunteers at his local office

Truly, shuv off. Are we only allowed to post positive kumbaya posts now? If so, please show me where this is in the bylines. And do you honestly think that anyone other than democrats give a crap about what's posted here? Do you really think the MSM will pick up my post as an example of "tension in the blah blah blah..."

Give me a break. This is a real question I'm asking, not a propaganda post. And how this would help PUMA supporters I'll never know.

[Enrique]

31. what's McCain spending his money for?

to play up the phony "Obama vs. Clinton" narrative.

The Obama campaign is working hard to promote the unity narrative.

Of all times, why bitch about the Clintons now?

[sfam]

42. Again, I just don't by it that a post here on DU drives anything...

Sorry, I just don't. I don't buy that the MSM is reading our posts in hopes of finding key insights to drive the latest narrative. I don't even buy that the freeps hang out here regularly. I think the vast majority of everyone posting or paying attention on DU are just democrats talking to themselves.

[mkultra]

49. well, there is alot of air in between your post and Kumbaya

Your post looks like an attempt to create disunity or disruption. I AM a contributor AND a volunteer.
I am a little pissed at Hill and her supporters and i get into it with them but this is just all out shit starting.


If you have questions about the rules, maybe you should read them. we are here to support the nominee, not feed the machine.

[sfam]

52. Show me where anything in my posts, now or ever here doesn't support the nominee...

Your saying that your pissed at Hill and her supporters is nothing at all different from what I've said here. Does this mean you've just fed the machine??? Truly, get over yourself and cut with the ridiculous attacks.

[mkultra]

54. starting open war doesnt help

things are starting to calm down and you roll in here throwing bombs.


that's called disruption.

[greguganus]

33. Uh oh...you said "key" n/t

[LostinVA]

34. Pumas aren't just people who say they are HRC supporters

Remmeber that. I've been sayibng that even before there were PUMAs.

[mkultra]

48. yeah, i think this is one of them

anyone here to create disunity is suspect.

[LostinVA]

57. Yup

[sfam]

61. Dude, if you get off labeling people here, have at it...

The difference here is not about who is "fostering disunity" or whatnot, the question is whether we think the MSM is eagerly anticipating "disunity" posts on DU so they can come up with something new to drive the narrative. Personally, I don't think me posting on DU about a frustrating aspect of what I see is going to drive the narrative. Nor do I think the purpose of posting here is to create as many Kumbaya posts as possible. Supporting our nominee? Absolutely and fully. I do it every month with donations to the campaign and to the local office.

I couldn't possibly support Obama more, but this doesn't change the fact that I'm pissed at what I see and am questioning the reasons driving it. Calling me a PUMA for doing so is a bit childish, but if that's what makes your day go better, have at it. Bottom line, I didn't cause the "disunity" nor am I driving it. Nor are ANY of the posts here on DU driving it. We just aren't that important to the national narrative (if you really think your posts and behavior here on DU can affect the MSM's behavior, you truly are out to lunch). I know that's probably a blow to your ego, but such is life.

[ladjf]

62. sfam. I found your original OP to be well within the norms of posts

on this board. However, certain issues just seem to elicit strong objections.

Personally, I have cut back on posting my opinions. For the most part, the responses are flames rather than discussion.

[emilyg]

29. When? When you stop posting flamebait.

[kennetha]

32. Does Obama have any responsibility?

Has anything about the way he has handled this whole affair done anything to contribute to the mess? Have his actions helped to make HIllary and Bill more of an issue? Has he done anything that is instrumental to making them less of an issue?

What does how he has handled this say about how he'd be as the head of our quite fractious party? We're united right now -- sort of -- because we want to win an election. But remember the last time we controlled the house, the senate and the presidency, the good times lasted all of two years.

And before that under Carter four years of Carter plus democratic control of both houses lead to a long Republican ascendancy.

So it matters how our nominee or, hopefully, our president, functions as a leader of the party. Can he keep the troops in line.

You do understand that each of these folks looks in the mirror and sees the person who really deserves to be leader of the free world. All of them have massive egos and a massive sense of their own self-importance. Handling the Clinton's who have no more or less ego than the rest of them is a major test for Obama, I would think.

Not sure what I think of how he has fared so far. I'm withholding judgment until I see how the convention actually comes off.

[greguganus]

35. You sound concerned. n/t

[kennetha]

38. Look as much as I supported and still do HRC

I don't want to see the convention increase divisions and don't want to see us lose another election. I wish everybody would start acting more grown up -- the Clinton's, but also Obama. But I'm not really passing judgment on anybody in the upper echelons of the party yet because who knows what conversations -- hopefully very frank ones -- take place behind closed doors.

But if the convention does dissolve into a cauldron of disunity, I will regard that as both a major failing on the Clinton's part, but also a major failing on Obama's part.

At the same time I don't at all expect either Bill or HIllary to suddenly become egoless shrinking violets and just submerge themselves as some expect. It ain't human nature and it certainly ain't the nature of accomplished national politicians to do that.

I think people who haven't worked with the elite political class close up just don't have a thick enough sense of what narcissistic ego-maniacs they all are.

[sfam]

40. Your last sentence may be the explanation...

I just really wish the narrative was very different right now, but then again, I'm sure all of us do.

And for those others here saying that posting a discussion about this discussion helps drive the narrative, I say you're a bit too full of yourselves if you think posts here will drive this story.

[sfam]

39. I don't equate Obama's ability to placate the Clintons with his ability to lead the country

Perhaps I'm out to lunch, but it seems to me that Hillary's leverage should have ended when the race ended. I do agree that if Obama tried to antagonize them, this would be a bad thing. But its absolutely in their full interest to bring the Clintons on board as much as possible, whereas we can't really say the same about the Clintons. I think the chances are fairly small that it will come out that Obama made some truly bad calls which caused an ongoing riff. The chances are far greater that perhaps the Clintons were setting the bar too high for Obama to cross, without looking weak.

And I too hope and pray for a terrific speech by Bill, Hillary and all the rest.

[kennetha]

41. Just wait until (hopefully)

we have both the house and the senate and the presidency again. All the pent up agendas of all the frustrated wings of the party will come pouring out. Obama will surely have a good length honeymoon with the press and the people if he wins. But when some scandal or mishandled crisis strikes and his support weakens, all the would be commanders in chief who can't get over the sight of their own images in the mirror will start to freelance and try to seize the reins of policy.

So I do think the ability to 'placate' (I don't think that's the right word) the members of one's own party -- especially the major players who feel in no way beholden to you for their position and prestige -- is a big test of what kind of president you would make.

[sfam]

43. I do agree that making compromises is essential. More important is garning support from the people

This is where Obama will shine. Medicare and energy independence won't go anywhere without massive clamoring from those outside of Washington. This to me is the greater test of leadership.

[smoogatz]

46. After Obama names his cabinet

and neither of them are in it.

[Forkboy]

47. When they are dead and buried.

Between the Clintons themselves and those that hate them we'll never see them gone.

I'd settle for both groups taking a long walk off a short pier.

[BooScout]

53. So you put up YET another post bitching about them?

Way to draw attention away from the Clintons..........sheesh.

[JVS]

55. I don't know, but when that time comes, I fully expect the sky to open up and we're going to hear...

the heavenly choirs SING!

[ronnykmarshall]

58. When people stop posting shit over and over and over ...

[otohara]

59. Fuck The Media - I Fucking Hate Them

Hillary, Bill, Clinton's - 24/7

Thanks vindictive voters, none of this will turn out to be a good thing in the end if you get your way.

[Imagevision]

60. Without the Clintons the M$M spin deminishes...

[pecwae]

63. Eht Snotnilc! Eht Snotnilc!

Ti's lla tuoba Eht Snotnilc!