Use the keys. Period.

[ProSense]

Yes, it's about houses and McCain's constant jabbing at Obama as an elitist. There is nothing Rovian or sinister about that.

People are throwing around the "childish" word as if to somehow shame others for encouraging this, suggesting instead Monopoly piece earrings or bracelets. Yeah, that's more mature.

This is a political campaign, and there are gesture like these used all the time.

The public has already heard about the houses, they have no clue about key-related PTSD.

This entire debate is about house keys and the likelihood that the GOP would spin it as a reference to McCain's PTSD. This is what the GOP is willing to do to win: expose McCain as a person traumatized by keys?

The purpose of the keys is to focus on McCain seven to 12 homes, not attack McCain's alleged PTSD (Does anyone have definitive evidence that this is true?)

The hyperventilating that the media is going to make McCain's alleged PTSD an issue by conflating the two thereby destroying Obama's campaign and embarrassing Democrats is complete BS.

The entire cast of Swift Lying purple band-aid promoters are either working for or donating to McCain's campaign. Some are probably the same ones who swiftboated Max Cleland.

McCain doesn't care.

McCain has already been called out by Vets for exploiting his status as a former POW: here and here.

McCain stands by and allows Vets to be attacked, and is linked to a group that has attacked Vets.

I find the hyperbole surrounding the keys to be ridiculous.





edited typos.

[cali]

1. sorry, it's just stupid. you can prattle on about how it's really about

the houses, but the PTSD thing will become an unneccessary distraction should a bunch of delegates rattle silly little plastic keys. it's dumb. and yes, it has the potential to be self-injurious. and no, it's not hyperbole to point that out.

[panader0]

7. I'm with you cali

[WeDidIt]

8. Yeah, because finding out McCain gets fucked in teh head whenever he hears KEYS

will really make him look like a strong leader who will keep America safe.

:eyes:

The Republicans DON'T WANT TO GO THERE!

[cali]

14. yeah, and playing into stupid and unfair stereotypes

about the dems not respecting military service or personnel and not being patriotic, is just a brilliant thing to do. Because even the appearance that delegates are making fun of PTSD is such a winner for dems. Phaw.

[ProSense]

25. You know, you're the one playing into stereotypes.

The same arguments were made about criticizing McCain for overuse of his POW status as an excuse for his lies and nasty behavior. He was criticized, and the handwringing ensued. He felt emboldened enough to continue using it, and it has backfired on him.

I see house keys.

[cali]

31. i have no patience with this kind of idiocy.

first of all, I've never said that criticizing McCain for overusing his POW status was beyond the bounds. Secondly, stop being so narcissistic. It's not about what YOU see. It's about how the majority of American voters see things.

[ProSense]

37. The American voters

see house keys. The handwringing is idiocy.

[cali]

40. bullshit. codswallop. garbage.

this is beginnning to remind me of the idiot MoveOn ad about Petraeus. I called that one. And this is no different. You blithely ignore the power of the MSM to turn a molehill into a mountain. And that's incredibly shortsighted.

[WeDidIt]

43. Yeah, because somebody being incapable of hearing keys jingle NEEDS to be the person

entrusted with nuclear weapons.

:eyes:

boom

[cali]

47. please serve up a quote that indicates that McCain flys into a psychotic rage

every time he hears the jangle of keys. Can't do it, can you? And saying that he finds the jangle of keys a reminder of his years in captivity, is not the same thing.

[WeDidIt]

54. It's implied in even bringing it up

John McCain is NOT attending the DNC, so trying to bring it up implies that the man is unhinged.

If John McCain cannot handle Democrats using keys to joke about his inability to keep track of his own houses, what's he going to do when Putin jangles the keys in his pocket?

[cali]

58. um. no. it has zippo to do with whether McCain is at the DNC

it's stupid, puerile and will be interpreted in the worst possible light.

[WeDidIt]

60. Well be pissed all you want

It's already going to happen. There is no stopping it now.

[WinkyDink]

70. I read this:

There are behaviors associated with the candidate that would be consistent with a diagnosis of PTSD. Author Robert Timberg mentions McCain's intense explosions of anger --- a hallmark sign of lingering mental trauma from war -- in his book "John McCain: An American Odyssey." Timberg describes the episodes as "an eruption of temper out of all proportion to the provocation." Timberg, who McCain has said "knows more about me than I do," wrote that McCain's sudden fury is a result of Vietnam coming "back to haunt him." McCain has himself described having an adverse reaction to the sound of jangling keys, which reminds him of his Vietnam jailers. McCain also told doctors that during solitary confinement he had strayed pretty "far out" and had referred to himself as "mentally deteriorating."

[ProSense]

48. MoveOn is still around.

Petraeus was called out for lying, and other than RW and McCain, no one see him as the second coming of Patton.

Your reference to MoveOn is shortsighted. Things are changing. Get with the program.

Democrats don't have to cede everything military and national security related to the Republicans.

Stop encouraging it.

[TwilightGardener]

76. That stupid Petraeus ad set Democrats back, big time. This key thing is yet

another hare-brained idea.

[ProSense]

79. Until they woke up. Still,

why was that? Some Dems decided it was okay to side with the RW spin, and nothing was gained from it.

Rush Limbaugh went on to attack Veterans, and the Dems could do nothing about it.

Stop the madness.

[Ganja Ninja]

30. If the man is so mentally unstable that a set of keys will ...

freak him out then he's unfit to the president and he should never have run in the first place.

[greguganus]

69. It's good to find out now before he's elected. Jingle on! n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

9. I totally agree with you.

[Inuca]

Absolutely

completely idiotic

[Inuca]

11. Absolutely

completely idiotic

[Inuca]

12. Absolutely

completely idiotic

[Inuca]

44. Oops!!! n/t

[ProSense]

15. You can continue to speculate, but you have no idea.

but the PTSD thing will become an unneccessary distraction

What makes you sure that it will, that they will conflate the two? Why do you believe it will be to McCain's benefit?

You have no idea, and your theory that the GOP will spotlight McCain's alleged PTSD doesn't make sense.

[redqueen]

21. Because we have observed history. That is what the M$M does. (nt)

[TwilightGardener]

22. The media makes EVERYTHING into McCain's benefit--you must

have missed Mark Halperin yesterday saying that the houses gaffe hurts Obama more than McCain. The media whores will ALWAYS use the GOP talking point--why give them a juicy one?

[WeDidIt]

27. Yeah, because talking about a candidate for president having psychological diffilclties

handling the Frickin' sound of Frikin' keys SOOOOOO works in that candidate's favor.

It's not like he could, you know, freak out and hit the button causing massive global nuclear devestation or anything when he freaks out over jingling keys.

:eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

62. There's nothing to be gained from Democrats being portrayed as

taunting anyone with PTSD--and everything to lose. And make no mistake--the GOP is much more powerful a voice in the media, and that is how we WILL be portrayed.

[cali]

23. LOL! Are you kidding? It doesn't take any prescience to know

how the MSM will spin this. And any dissemination of McCain's response to rattling keys- that they make him uncomfortable because they remind him of his years in captivity, will be met overwhelmingly with sympathy. They'll don't have to say McCain has PTSD, and they certainly won't.

NOTHING in your OP or the post I'm responding to now, is even remotely engaged with reality.

[ProSense]

29. Don't be ridiculous

The MSM conflates Obama with Osama.

Want to engage reality:

Explain how portraying McCain as a person traumatized by keys benefits his campaign.

[cali]

42. duh. they don't have to portray him as traumatized and they won't

they just have to sympathetically recount how McCain has said that the sound of jangling keys remind him of his years in captivity as a POW.

[ProSense]

61. That's absurd

Yeah, they're going to mention that and that'll be the end of that, right?

They're trapped. Democrats emphasize that it's about house keys and then what?

The reference you're suggesting weak, and McCain has already overplayed his POW hand. Most people heard last week that he is making a mockery of it.

[snooper2]

64. I wish more people knew about the PTSD- Bomb Bomb Bomb

Bomb Bomb Iran...

[elocs]

65. I am with you on this one, it is stupid and childish.

Just because Republicans do things does not make it right for Democrats do the same. Why would we ever want to be like Republicans or stoop to their level? This is something which could very well backfire. There are tough and legitimate ways to fight the good fight. Jangling keys is not needed. I think Obama can and will campaign McCain into the ground and if McCain is to lose it, then it will be because of a legitimate situation and not because of some juvenile stunt.

[WeDidIt]

2. K & EFFING R!

[jakem]

3. you make a good case. and it is an interesting question-

Could the press make an issue of Dems invoking McCain's ptsd, without making voters think twice about a president McPTSD?

[Dbdmjs1022]

4. AMEN!!! RATTLE AWAY PEOPLE!

[NYC_SKP]

5. I agree.

If it brings up the topic of PTSD, I say "fine", we need to know about that man and all his ugly warts.

Plastic playskool keys are, however, preferred.

:patriot:

[WeDidIt]

6. And push this ad, too

This needs to go viral, big time:

John McCain Don't Know Much

[KatieW]

10. I guess I'm missing something, but how would the keys in any way relate to McCain's time as a POW?

I would never have thought of the POW angle to the keys if I hadn't heard about it here. It's obvious a reverence to his not being able to answer the question of how many house's do you own.

[redqueen]

19. McCain has said that the sound of jangling keys is a PTSD trigger for him.

And no matter how obvious YOU think it is, the M$M will speculate about the 'real' motive endlessly.

Anyone who expects to get off as lightly as the purple band-aid wearers did is an idiot.

No matter what you say your motives are... no matter how much more ethical your childish mocking... you WILL be serving up a nice juicy bit of crap for the M$M to bloviate about.

[redqueen]

13. I find the idea to act like republicans ridiculous. And this WILL be spun as evil

and speculated about endlessly... the M$M won't just take your word for it that it's about houses.

Wait and see.

[Seen the light]

16. Why don't people just use something else?

Are keys the only things that can be used to point out the house thing?

[redqueen]

20. OBVIOUSLY that's not the only way... so why not use something that's NOT a trigger?

Hmmmmm...

:think:

[TwilightGardener]

24. Plastic monopoly houses on a string or necklace.

[redqueen]

34. Much simpler and there AREN'T threads here talking about how it's really about PTSD.

I can't believe that crap has been admitted to here in this forum and people are still averting their eyes and pretending it's all sunshine and roses.

[TwilightGardener]

17. Disagree--some tactics are worth the risk. This is not one of them--

too much chance of blowback for too small of a political payoff. At best, it'll be seen as kinda silly and juvenile. At worst, it will look like an unseemly mockery of a POW and will ruin the houses gaffe for the rest of the election.

[No Elephants]

18. Noun, verb, POW. Don't let it bully you! They'll leave us nothing.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. Its sad to see otherwise sane individuals marry themselves to somethign so silly, that has...

so much potential downside. Why is going through with this so important to you when it could completely set this campaign on its ear?

[redqueen]

36. Especially when there are so many options that people haven't said are really about PTSD. (nt)

[redstate_democrat]

28. We have a bunch of fucking cowards in the Democratic party.

These people called Obama a fucking unAmerican , traitorous, uppity celeb on the level of paris hilton and brittany spears and we're debating whether or not we should add props to our line of attack regarding how out of touch McCain is with his forgetfulness about his dozen houses. What a joke. I say jingle the damn keys. I didn't even know about the damn PTSD crap until I heard it here.

[cali]

35. stupid is as stupid does.

problem is it doesn't do very well. Smart attacks on McCain, yes. Stupid prop-driven ones dreamed up by right wing stooges? No thanks.

[Moochy]

32. BUT IT WILL MAKE US LOOK BAD

I'm so tired of the fear-of-what-the-MSM-is-gonna-say-about-it type of reactions here at DU.

Jingle the keys, it's nowhere as silly as a purple band-aid. Plus everyone's got keys.

[nolabels]

50. Forget about " IT WILL MAKE US LOOK BAD", for me, i wouldn't do because.....

when people see you rattling a bunch of keys around they think you're a janitor, desk clerk or property management or something and start asking for favors and advice B-)

[Moochy]

57. LOL

I just think that those overreacting to this whole JINGLEGATE affair remind me of this guy...

[TwilightGardener]

59. Yeah, like Schneider on One Day At A Time.

(wasn't he the one with the key ring? or am I remembering that wrong?)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

33. I totally disagree.

For one, the MSM will clearly spin it in McCain's favor and attack Obama for allowing it to happen.

Even if it wasn't the intended effect, the jangling keys will look like we're mocking McCain's PTSD, which will turn off many voters. And McCain's repeated "POW excuse" that he uses for any attack against him will now appear legitimate.

We have enough traction out of HouseGate (Biden's remark hit the point home), but we can't risk fucking up the convention because of a stupid stunt like this.

[redstate_democrat]

39. Why don't we just withdraw from the race then?

The M$M is not on our side. The sooner we realize this and go after the Republicans and the M$M by bypassing them all together, the better off we will be. If we tailor our whole campaign based on what the MSM says, I guess we would be praising McCain day in and day out and laying on the ground to allow the Republicans to walk all over us.

[redqueen]

46. Bullshit. Obama is winning this thing, and not by acting like an asshole because

'it doesn't matter, the M$M will be mean either way'.

That is the fucking stupidest idea ...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

49. You missed my point entirely.

Biden, with his "seven kitchens" remark, was brilliant. That is how we attack McCain. We don't have to pull a "purple heart band-aid"-type stunt, particularly when it could easily legitimize McCain and his POW experience.

[ProSense]

41. The keys are about HouseGate

the jangling keys will look like we're mocking McCain's PTSD

Two things:

1 - Most people here, who are tuned into the campaigns more than most Americans, had no clue about McCain's issue with keys. Americans will see house keys.

2 - Explain how the GOP/media portraying McCain as a person traumatized by keys benefits his campaign.

[redqueen]

51. So? The M$M will dig this up and you can scream till you're blue in the face it's not about PTSD

it won't matter... becuase posts here (and likely elsewhere in the trolls' "hey dems, pull this rope! it'll help, really!" campaign) will back the M$M's spin.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6691513&mesg_id=6691589

[ProSense]

63. You post

a thread by a freeper to prove your point?

The link in that OP is to Pastordan at Daily Kos, he's not a freeper.

My guess is that the freepers don't want this to happen.

[redqueen]

67. No... I linked to a reply in which a DUer says they like the idea MORE due to the PTSD. (nt)

[Starbucks Anarchist]

68. Okay:

1) The MSM *will* bring it up, and so will McCain's campaign. That will overshadow the original Housegate intent and make it look like we're mocking a war hero. It also legitimizes McCain's "But I was a POW" excuse he uses for everything.

2) It plays into the sympathy aspect. Many McCain voters aren't voting for him based on any logical reason, and this stunt would only make things worse for us. It also would turn off independents/swing voters, who will actually believe we were mocking his PTSD and not his many houses.

Despite his "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran"-type moments, many people still view McCain as a viable option. They may already realize he's crazy, but they think he's better than Obama, for whatever reasons, and so his key-linked traumatization wouldn't be seen as a negative.

We can't expect the MSM will treat this stunt like they did the purple heart band-aids. It will be all negative coverage for our side.

[ProSense]

74. That's your theory about how it will play out, but that still doesn't

explain how the GOP/media portraying McCain as a person traumatized by keys benefits his campaign.

Do you really believe that people are going to think "poor McCain, he's traumatized by keys" and not question is fitness to be president?

The comment about bombing Iran is no comparison.

A more apt comparison is McCain being called out for using his status as a former POW as an excuse for everything.

See, he doesn't always get sympathy by default. The only way that's going to continue to be the case is to stop ceding these issues to him, and allowing him to exploit them.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

78. This is the one case where the POW excuse *would work*.

Remember, at least 40% of this country is going for McCain, no matter what. This stunt will piss off many swing voters because of the way the MSM will portray it.

After all, Obama's fist bump was called a "terrorist fist jab" for no apparent reason. Don't you think the MSM will play up the POW angle on this stunt, when it actually seems conceivable that mocking his PTSD was the intent, even though it actually wasn't?

Like I said, Biden's remark on the "seven kitchens" was brilliant, and that's the kind of attack we need -- something that can only be viewed as portraying McCain as out of touch. The MSM is already against us, and we don't need to give them more ammo with the keys stunt.

And I don't think McCain's aversion to jangling keys will make anybody question his fitness. After all, Bush's severe stupidity and lack of curiosity sure didn't stop him from becoming successful.

[TexasObserver]

38. I worship at the Church of Elvis, and Elvis said "shake, RATTLE, and roll."

Peace be upon Him.

[redqueen]

45. This WILL backfire.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6691513&mesg_id=6691589

[cali]

53. that's incredibly obvious. Why can't so many here not see it?

That's the mystery.

[redqueen]

56. It's obvious on it's face that it's one of the fucking stupidest ideas ever...

was posted by a troll who's been banned...

Hmmmmm...

[Naturyl]

72. They are letting their hatred blind them.

They want to nail McCain and who can blame them for that? Sadly, however, their emotions are overruling logical thought. They want to do this so much that they can't see how it will blow up in our faces.

I never suspected until very recently that the idiotic RW talking point "BDD" (Bush Derangement Disorder) might have some basis in fact. Sadly, I'm starting to wonder if it does.

I wish people could get past their emotions and let this BAD idea go. There are much better ways to bring McSame down. We can get him on everything, without shooting ourselves in the foot.

[LynneSin]

52. You know that, I know that - but tell me, does Cable News know that

or if they do know that will they actually tell it like that.

[Eric J in MN]

55. Ratlling keys is a tacky idea.

It should be beneath Democrats.

We should act better than Republicans.

[ProSense]

66. Yeah,

we should use Monopoly pieces instead, right?

I'm not buying this "beneath Democrats" argument.

[redqueen]

71. Well has anyone here said they like the Monopoly pieces better for some cruel sick reason?

Cause if not... then why the fuck not?

Why do something that people HERE have already admitted is NOT about the lofty ideals you and too many others want to pretend it's all about?

[TwilightGardener]

73. Apparently, the McNopoly plastic houses suggestion just doesn't have

the hidden cruel taunt that is at the center of the key-jangling, and thus is not any fun.

[redqueen]

75. I can't see any other eason to resist it so aggressively...

sad.

[ProSense]

77. Apparently,

not everyone is making ridiculous leaps.

[symbolman]

80. I know!

Let's MOON the guy, on the count of THREE.. :)

ProSense, I'm with you 100 percent.. most people have been Brainwashed, and they have no idea.. they want to be HIGHER than a Rattlesnake, like that will keep them from biting your ankles.

the man needs to be EXPOSED NOW, and his excuse is, HE'S NOT FIT FOR OFFICE?

The whole thing is NUTS, like McCain.. I know, I worked in a VA Hospital after Nam, took care of 300 shell shocked patients, but NONe of them had a finger on the Nuke trigger..

What about at Christmas, do we have to retire Jingle Bells? Walk on eggshells for THAT GUY?

NOPE.

He's toast. Crazy, so's his campaign team for even suggesting he's SCARED OF KEYS. Jesus!

[TexasObserver]

81. I'll follow Osama to the gates of hell, my friends - unless he's jingling keys!!

[symbolman]

82. Lol!

Now watch all the terrorists COAT themselves in KEYS to torture McCain.. :)

It's just Surreal that they'd say he was SCARED of KEYS, to lower themselves with an excuse like that to make people NOT WAVE KEYS is very telling, reeks of desperation.. pay no attention to the Extremely RICH bastards killing YOUR KIDS, eh?