Oh Hell, I'm on the Hillary VP bandwagon too

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I supported Hillary but didn't want her as VP because I felt Obama would win no matter what and I am sick of the sideshow and couldn't see how Obama would even get on TV with her as VP. And since my true primary fave Biden is in the mix it was easy to want him for the job.

But I am no longer convinced Obama is a dead-certain winner. 60%-80% chance, yes, but not 100%.

My reason for supporting Hillary in the primaries was entirely electoral. I don't like listening to her but I believe(d) she had a better chance of being elected which is, in my view, the only responsible mode of analysis.

Seeing the new "tough" Obama, he sounds strident and defensive... pressing, which is never good. It sounds like he's uncomfortable in his attacking skin, under-cutting one of his great charms which is always seeming smooth and comfortable.

Yelling and negative is just not his style. That argues very well for him as a human being and potential president, but it's not tactically ideal at the moment.

Accepting that the VP needs to be an attacker, my inclination was Biden. He's great at that.

But my reason for not wanting Hillary to be VP has now become exactly the reason I do... that she always dominates the news.

Accepting that Obama is not a good negative messenger the VP has two requirements. He/she must be good at attacking, and those attacks have to saturate the zeitgeist in a compressed 70 day campaign.

Whatever Hillary says on any topic leads the news. The media obsession with her makes her the optimal attack dog. If the media wants to lead the news every night with the latest crummy thing Hillary said about McCain, there are worse things. (And if she was on the ticket she would sure enough have crummy things to say about McCain.)

And, best of all, nothing negative she said would stick to Obama. She could say McCain is a wife-beater and Obama could laugh, shake his head and say, "That's Hillary for you." And the MSM would laugh right along with him. "That darn Hillary, what mischief will she get into next?"

[O.M.B.inOhio]

1. Wouldn't she be vulnerable to "flip-flop" attacks, having praised Sen. McMansion so strongly? nt

[thewiseguy]

3. If it was not that then it would be some other excuse

I am reaching the conclusion that some folks just dont like her.

[musicblind]

7. You are right

I am starting to think that it isn't REALLY about such issues but is instead because some people just don't like her.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. I'm one of those folks. I have never *liked* Hillary.

I tend to not support candidates based on whether I like them.

I am not the average voter, so who I like is irrelevant to the more important question of who can win. History suggests that my likes are counter-indicators.

[tokenlib]

4. She can respond more effectively to those attacks being on the ticket...

The republicans will run those ads regardless...Hillary can get more attention and coverage of her responses by being on the ticket.

Hillary will fire up the party activists more than any other VP candidate--even other candidates that I would prefer over Hillary. The excitement would be amazing...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Those attacks can come whether she's on the ticket or not. Consider this:

If she's not the VP the ads are, "Hey Hillary voters, look what she said about Obama! Vote McCain."

If she's on the ticket it's "Hey Hillary Voters, look what she said about Obama! Vote Mc... oh never mind, I guess you'll vote for Hillary."

That's why LBJ and Bush I were VPs. Carter couldn't effectively run ads about Bush I calling Reagan's plan Voodoo economics because there was no split to exploit, and everyone who liked Bush I enough to value his opinion was voting for Reagan/Bush.

[McCamy Taylor]

14. Only on foreign policy and the election will be decided on the economy.

She can call him an idiot on the economy. She can say that he is Keating 5, in bed with the folks that have brought us to the verge of the Second Great Depression---you know, Phil Gramm---on the economy. The base likes Hillary on the economy.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

15. It is, and ever shall be, the economy, stupid.

[RichGirl]

22. She's a Clinton...

...they can make a statement mean it's opposite faster than the speed of light. A slight of hand, rearrangement of a few words...presto.

Clintons are also very good with words and are very careful how to use them. She said that she and McCain had more experience than Obama. McCain is a hundred years old, he's had more experience than most people. Experience at what? Does that experience qualify him to be president? She never SAID that McCain would make a better president than Obama.

Any of the democrats who formally praised McCain have all the ammunition they need to claim that although they used respect him, his nasty campaigning has shocked and deeply disappointed them and that he is not the man they thought he was. The only talent John McCain has in fooling so many people into thinking he's the straight talk genius.

[katmondoo]

2. I thought her speeches were impressive

That was before she started attacking Obama. She is a good speaker and if she goes on the attack against McBush she will be very good.

[Andy823]

5. Not me.

I have held my voice on this "Hillary" VP rant for some time now. There is nothing, and I mean nothing worse than having Hillary as the VP. Damn can't people see that the republicans will use all the things she said about Obama in the primaries in their ads to show that not even his VP thinks he is ready to be president?

The republicans have so much on her and Bill, and the idea that they have been "VETTED" already is BS! Hillary has no "real" experience that can help Obama, and if she is on the ticket, every republican that can't stand McCain, and there are a lot of them, will come out and vote to make sure that Hillary is "never" a heartbeat away from being the president! It would also kill the idea that Obama is for "real" change.

I really don't think Hillary wants the second banana job, no way! She wants it all, and her goal, as well as all those idiots in PUMA is to run again in 2012 if Obama does not win, and the PUMA bunch are doing all they can to make sure he does "NOT" win.

Go ahead and bash me if you want, but the facts are what I look at, and the facts show me that Hillary is a bad idea, even though I don't think she has a chance, or that she would even want to be the VP!

[Metric System]

8. The Presidency is "not something that lends itself to on-the-job training." Oops, count Biden out!

[Andy823]

10. And do you really think

Hillary has the "training"? I don't!

The whole thing to me is Biden, as well as the others on Obama's short list, did not do as much damage as Hillary did during the election. None of them hit Obama with the "not ready", but McCain an I are crap! How can Oabama win when everyday there will be an ad running by McCain with his VP choice in it, it saying that she and McCain have passed the threshold test to become commander and chief but Obam has not, or that she and McCain bring a lifetime of "experience" but Obama only has a speech?

[Metric System]

12. Um, what did you think Biden meant about Obama when he made that statement I posted? He was implying

Obama wasn't ready to be President.

[Andy823]

17. But you miss my point.

Did Bidan say, "I am ready, McCain is ready, but Obama is not"? Did he say anything that had to do with McCain being qualified, but Obama was not? And I am not endorsing Biden, just saying why I think it's really a bad idea to make Hillary the VP! Hillary used Obama's name in her remarks, can you show me where any of the others in line for the VP slot did the same as she did, use a comparison with McCain saying McCain was qualifed, but Obama was not!

[Upton]

11. Sounds good to me

either Clinton or Clark. I'm sick of this just laying back and taking it.

[geek tragedy]

13. Better than Bayh, that's for sure. n/t

[cascadiance]

23. Bayh is being used as "foil fodder" to make his ultimate choice *seem* better...

I really don't think Bayh is an option. But if you had someone better than he in their "final list", and someone equally as corportist (even though perhaps a little more liberal on some issues) got selected, those making the choices will rationalize that they picked the best of "the field" when the field doesn't contain those folk that really would be a lot better than that field (aka Richardson, Clark, or perhaps even Feingold).

If I'm wrong here and Bayh is really picked, then Obama's "campaign of change" will die a *hollow* death and we will be doomed!

[Erin Elizabeth]

16. This completely ignores the fact that

she can attack and attack and attack all she wants, but her name would still be Hillary Clinton, and she'd still be a lightning rod, and she'd still be someone the right would salivate all over themselves to vote against, even with her as #2 on the ticket. McCain could be a drooling cupcake and they'd vote for him against Obama and Clinton.

Ignoring that reality is foolish. Obama would not bring that upon himself.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. You ought to update your analytical frame to 2008

Hillary is not a lightning rod for the RW. She was.

Now Obama is a much bigger RW lightning rod. That's why McCain is having little trouble consolidating the Republican vote despite being largely hated in the RW.

The argument that Republicans would line up to vote against Hillary but would be peachy keen with a black guy shows a deep incomprehension of the nature of American politics.

It was a silly argument in the primaries. Today it is both silly and disproven.

[Erin Elizabeth]

20. Tell me, then. What caused her to supposedly stop being

a lightning rod?

I've asked republicans I know (I live in Texas) what they would think about Hillary as Obama's VP and they usually laugh and say they'd really enjoy voting against her. Not against Obama (whom some of them secretly like). Not FOR McCain. But against her.

I think you are engaging in wishful thinking. The reality is that she is still a lightning rod. Nothing has happened to change that.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. The first time she was tagged as a racist

RW types have reflexive solidarity with anyone accused of racism. (For obvious reasons)

I think many RW types quietly rooted for Hillary just because her opponent was black.

And after you root for someone it's hard to get the hate back. That's why McCain doesn't get quite the hatred he deserves. To anyone who spotted Bush II as a sociopath from the get McCain was a hero for a few months in 2000. That doesn't equal support, but it's not the same 110% hate.

I kind of rooted for Huckabee because he would have been such a disastrous candidate, and even that contrarian faux-support makes it a little harder for me to hate him. And I HATE fundie politicians as a rule.

I don't know about Texas, but I know that all the RW media opinion makers have been cooing about Hillary for months out of contrariness, just to make Obama look worse, and would have a tough time snapping back with the old passion.

[SeaLyons]

19. Sounds good to me

Obama/Clinton is the winning ticket.

[Liberal Dose]

21. Not a Hillary supporter in the primary but I'm starting to be more open to the idea of a VP spot for

her. Hey, you learn new things and change your mind, right? :shrug:

[David Zephyr]

24. Welcome. I supported Obama for Prez and Hillary for VP. Just as it should be.

Glad to have you with us.

It will be Hillary.

[bvar22]

26. Mindless, repetitive Hillary cheerleading you can Xerox!

More of the same from more of the same all on the same day.


Whatever.