If Obama was married to a white woman, would that have utterly destroyed his chances?

[George_Bonanza]

I'm sorry if this is a divisive and contentious question, but I think it is an important and serious one.

If Obama was married to a white equivalent of Michelle (beautiful, smart, accomplished), would that have completely destroyed his chances for the White House? I would think the most damage would come from insecure white male voters who are already wary of the physical dominance that black Americans have in professional sports. If black men could not only be Lebron James but also be president of the United States, what's to keep white women from flocking to them? McCain wouldn't even need to run Harold Ford ads because he's just need to show pictures of Obama and his white wife expressing affection in order to get the white male losers all riled up.

In addition, Obama will undoubtedly have his black credibility questioned.

What do you think?

[cliffordu]

1. I think you aren't really asking a question, at all.

[elocs]

20. Don't they say that most questions are really statements in disguise? n/t

[cliffordu]

25. Yes they do.

Particularly questions that are layered with obvious "tells."

[StuffyJones]

27. Or the person is curious to see what others think

[Skwmom]

73. Only so he can get input on how to make another smear against Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

2. Married to a White Woman might have resulted in the same situation

or not. Hard to predict an hypothetical.

He may have not gotten as many votes from as many Black folks.....who sometimes question a successful brother marrying outside of his race...although in his case, he's only 1/2 Black. I'm not sure how it would have affected White folks though.

in reference to this, "Obama will undoubtedly have his black credibility questioned"...I'm not sure what you are asking? :shrug:

[Barack_America]

3. I think it's a moot point.

And not a particularly helpful one.

[AspenRose]

81. Thank you

:thumbsup:

[BlooInBloo]

4. The time for that shit-stirring passed with Clinton's candidacy.

[SwampG8r]

5. i married one and its been tough

white women can be mean

and im white too

[cliffordu]

29. Yep.

:rofl:

[DianeG5385]

6. Everybody forgets that Obama is half white

He is every bit the Kansas Farmer as he is the African American. Have you seen a pic of his grandpa? He's the spitting image of him! There's a pic of the two of them in the surf and they are images of each other. He's the grandson of a WWll vet get used to it.

Your imagery is offensive. There is nothing important or serious about it. Sounds a little like a take off of a Harold Ford commercial and we know how that went. What you represent is evil.

I think those farmers need to know the real Obama. He is as much white man as black man. That is what he brings to the table, he is America.

Obama doesn't need any black "cred". He is who he is.

[Dr.Phool]

12. My wife explained this to me.

That traditionally the child takes the ethnicity of the mother. So, technically Obama would be white, as Tiger Woods considers himself Asian.

I'm not sure, but my wife is usually more knowledgeable than me on things like that. She grew up in a more multi-ethnic neighborhood than me.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Neither were White.

The one Black drop rule takes precedence....unless one looks totally white. Even Mariah Carey couldn't pass....and Lord knows she initially tried.

[Stand and Fight]

86. The one drop rule was put forth by racists.

To even espouse it as having even an inkling of truth on this so-called PROGRESSIVE board is a sad and pathetic thing indeed.

[FrenchieCat]

88. I am Biracial. My mother is White and my father was Black.

I am married to a Black man.
My daughter is married to a White man.

I have creds in this area.
Sorry.

[Stand and Fight]

91. Well, then I guess we cancel each other out.

I am married to a White woman.
My son is birracial. I am part White. (Though very small)

I have credentials in this area. SORRY to you. ;)

[rebel with a cause]

56. I have to disagree with your wife.

I had my multi-racial children in NYC, and I was told by the officials there that the children were identified by the ethnic identity of the father. Since I was white and my then-husband was Latino, my children were registered/identified as Latinos. Neither of them would be identified by others as white anyway, but my daughter looks somewhat Asian and my son looks Middle Eastern.

I agree also with the other poster about the fact that if you are multi-racial, especially part Black, you are identified as the darker group. This is a social identity that was started years ago and still lives on in our society.

[my3boyz]

68. My husband's mother is Filipino but he considers himself black. nt

[SwampG8r]

90. my wife is a midwife

she uses mothers ethnicity when documenting

[Stand and Fight]

7. I think your question is relavent.

Being in an interracial marriage (Black and White), I often wonder what it would do to my chance in politics... So, I'm very interested in seeing what people have to say about this. Thanks for posting.

[AspenRose]

83. Didn't seem to hurt William Cohen.

And I guess we'll see what happens with Harold Ford.

[Number23]

92. Harold Ford? Hmmm....

I think the fact that his wife is 26 and works for Carolina Herrera may be as much if not more of a liability than her skin color. And I'm a big fan of Carolina.

IMO, if she were a "blonde" (and I use that term loosely after checking out those roots) 26-year old surgical intern or UN World Food Program staff member, he'd get alot more props from folks. I had no idea he was even married. Now I wish I still didn't know!

[JackORoses]

8. you mean like Paris Hilton or Britney Spears?

:puke:

[ruggerson]

9. What if he was married to a white man?

[greguganus]

77. Hmmm..good question! n/t

[StuffyJones]

10. Obama is 10x the candidate we've ever seen...and yes, he needs to be

To your point, if he had married white, he'd be unelectable as President right now.

Just imagine if he let his hair grow out...unelectable. Corn rows? He'd be pulled over everyday.

Our society is racist. The thing is, Obama is perfect. He's bi-racial, speaks like a white professor, he has a beautiful family. He's clean cut. And he doesn't complain about race (another big no-no in racist America).

Contrary to these other posters, I think it's an excellent question/point you make.

[Phoonzang]

11. I'm doubting he would have even been elected to senate n/t

[StuffyJones]

18. I'm from IL and think it wouldn't matter here....but if he cheated it would matter

I'm not saying IL is totally progressive, but I don't believe it would be an issue here.

America is, obviously, still working through this crap.

[rebel with a cause]

58. It may depend on where in Illinois you live if it makes a difference.

The places where I have lived it has made a difference. The saying about these places we use to have is "There is only one thing worse than a Black man to these people, it is the white woman married to him." What has been done to Michelle is slight to what would be done to a white woman married to him. Trust me, my husband was a dark Latino, and I got treated pretty bad. After my divorce I moved to a new town, and my new landlord warned me that my neighbors were a "mixed couple". When I asked why that would worry me, he said that I would be surprised how many people it did bother to live next door to such people. :grr:

To tell you how bad some of these people are about this subject, they felt O.J. should be found innocent not because they thought he didn't kill his ex wife, but because Nicole deserved to be killed for marrying him in the first place.

[StuffyJones]

61. Yikes. Glad I haven't been to those parts of the state...I'll still defend IL though

I think Obama's problems with an interracial marriage would come from other parts of the country. Indiana perhaps (which I guess isn't much different from IL south of I-80)...maybe you do have a point :(

[rebel with a cause]

66. Yeah, I have lived mostly in the Southern half of the state.

and most of the places, I was not too fond of. Right now I am in the deep southern portion of the state but am living in the area surrounding SIUC, so it is much more diverse here. Still too many conservatives/bigots around even here for me to feel really satisfied.

And I am not saying all Illinois is bad, and do think things have gotten a little better over the years. Hey, we elected Obama to the Senate, but of course Chicago mainly did that. The town that I grew up in was 100% white, except for the Chinese man who owned a laundry. Today the statistics are as follows from Wikipedia: "The racial makeup of the city was 98.72% White, 0.29% African American, 0.15% Native American, 0.28% Asian, 0.06% from other races, and 0.51% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.51% of the population." Really diverse, yeah. :eyes:

My daughter was the first non-white to attend school there. We never go back to that town now, and we wish those that live there who are identified as those under 1% represented, the best of luck.

[TexasObserver]

13. If Eleanor Roosevelt had been able to fly without an airplane ...

... would it have ended WWII any quicker?

[ruggerson]

19. Only if they could have flown her over Berchtesgaden

strapped to a smartbomb with Adolf's name on it.

[TexasObserver]

24. that was from an SNL skit 30 years ago

A panel of experts would play "what if" about various historic events.

[maddiejoan]

44. I don't know

But it would've been freakin' sweet!

[ecstatic]

14. I think he would have been rejected by both communities

And like someone else said, he never would have made it to state senate much less the US Senate.

[StuffyJones]

34. Minor disagreement: I think you might be overstating it by "rejection" ...but I get your drift

[vaberella]

15. I'll be honest and truthful----He'd have lost.

He'd have been reigned into the group of men who are a national stereotype. When Black and successful they marry white and normally blonde. It would have been dreadful for him.

People can sit there and say he's Half Black/Half White---but he himself defines himself as a Black man. Then on top of that majority of people in this nation forget he's mixed and define him as a Black man, the rethugs are one group. Dems from time to time can be found to say he's Black or when topics like this start then he's mixed.

However, his message would be lost because mainly the Black community would see him as a sort of traitor in essence, even more so than some (the small minority) do already. JJ would eat him alive as well and what JJ would have said would have gotten praise and acclaimations of greatness to eleminate Obama's presence.

It would not have been good.

[Colobo]

16. He'd be more liked by white America, I think.

[vaberella]

21. No he wouldn't. I could hear the O.J. Simpson jokes before he could say "Hel-"

It would be a massacre. The GOP would have eaten him alive. You'd see posters of him next to O.J. Simpson everywhere.

Plus, much like the lie that is him being Muslim has stuck. Wait for the "wife-beating" possibly family abuse lies that would have spread like wild fire. He would never have had a chance.

[StuffyJones]

32. I hadn't thought of OJ, but you're right, sadly

[vaberella]

35. People in this nation don't forget and the Black Man and White Woman issue will cause problems

between both races. Sure there are a few progressives but in the US, even the very progressive maintains a few prejudices and that would erupt in a firestorm and the GOP would have loved that. Shoot, they wouldn't even think about allowing him to run anyway. Because they would be aware of his limitations with a White wife.

[FrenchieCat]

17. I think Obama did well in the marriage department, regardless his color!

In fact, he did perfect for himself!

[ruggerson]

22. I agree

[Number23]

69. True that!

I think Obama did well in the marriage department

He did as well as ANY man could possibly hope to do. She's not JUST pretty, but smart. Not JUST smart, but damn smart. Ambitious, classy and educated as all hell too. Michelle is a fantastic role model for all women, in my opinion.

And I'm going to continue the positive vibes in this thread and not ask the obvious question ("why aren't white men asked about potential scenarios involving being married to black women?") because I'm going to be nice. But just for today though. :)

[StuffyJones]

23. Notice the reaction just asking the question gets....I think it proves it would be a problem

People seemed to automatically think it was inflammatory. Why?

[FrenchieCat]

26. Why don't you go back and count the number of

posts that indicate "imflamation" versus the ones that didn't.

Let's compare what people seemed to think. OK?

[StuffyJones]

31. Impllication is difficult with so little text...are you honestly asking or claiming I'm wrong?

[FrenchieCat]

33. I count three responses that could be seen as

"Why in the fuck are you asking that dumbass hypothetical question" type of replies. The others are just either funny as hell (He could have been married to a White man), or quite civil and responsive.

What is it that you see, that I'm missing? :shrug:

[StuffyJones]

36. I saw a cyber mob forming, ready to righteously declare this verboten

But I guess we just disagree.

[FrenchieCat]

40. give me some post numbers then......

This is not a agree/disagree proposition. It is more like a true/false thing.

I believe that you made a generalization based on very little evidence...and in fact, the evidence goes contrary to your conclusion.

When one has just signed up to DU, and attempts to generalize the responses on a thread as being somewhat reactionary, one should back that shit up....doncha think?

[StuffyJones]

46. No, I don't feel any obligation--More importantly I'm glad we are having the discussion

However, I don't think I was wrong, but who knows, it's certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[DesertFlower]

28. personally, i wouldn't care.

the first time i saw obama was when he spoke at the 2004 convention. i thought he was great. didn't even know that he was married at the time. so whether his wife is black or white or asian it wouldn't matter one bit to me.


that being said, i think it might have hurt him. some white men would be pissed that he married one of "theirs" and some black people might feel he should have married one of his own. even though he's half white, he's considered black.

[Muttocracy]

37. does he divorce Michelle first or not?

:shrug:

[vaberella]

39. I think it's assuming he never married Michelle. Assuming however, he divorced Michelle

he'd have been advised not to even think about running for President...and I doubt he'd have won Senate.

[elkston]

38. Its a valid question. As a black man, let me share my thoughts.

First of all, I think his support in the black community would not have been as solid as it is now.

Upfront, Obama already takes two hits to his "blackness" credentials:

1. Barack is biracial. Now it definetly helps that he identifies himself as black and looks sufficiently "black enough" to make it credible; but he IS lighter skinned and there is a perception by many in our community that fairer skinned blacks receive sligthly better treatment and are considered less threatening to white people.

2. Barack's black side comes straight from Kenya. He is African American, but is not descended from American slaves. As strange as it may seem to non-blacks, this actually diminishes the "pride" some blacks feel about Obama because there is a sense that he is not 100% part of our struggle. I personally do not feel this way. In my mind, if you are a black man in a America, then you are a black man in America. Most dumb bigots won't even care to figure out the finer points of your lineage.


However, Barack all but neutralized the effect of these "blackness" issues by marrying Michelle Obama: a 100% chocolate-skinned, American black woman. Plus he's got two beautiful daughters with pure African and African-American bloodlines.

A lot of this may seem superficial to you guys, but for some black people, It really mattered.

Therefore, Barack is welcomed to our community with open arms because:

1) He does not shy away from his black side. He clearly wants to be indentified as black

2) He married a true, American black woman.

With these explanations then, you can see how marrying a white woman would have severely diminished Obama's image with SOME in the black community (not me personally).

And furthermore, to address your other question: It WOULD turn off some white men as well. Its something that isn't talked about a lot, but there is a subconcious fear in some white men about a black man's sexual power. This manifests itself in a primal instinct to protect "their" white women from the charms of the virile black beast.

Seeing Obama with his pretty white wife would stoke that subliminal fear and probably hurt him in that group of insecure white men.

Just some thoughts.

[vaberella]

41. As a woman of Afro-Caribbean descent I so understand what you in relation to no.2

As a Haitian, there is always this huge unspoken barrier that the Black Americans are significantly different from Haitians. Or even Caribbean Americans are vastly different from Black Americans and Africans are vastly different from the other two.

Not to mention what's interesting is that even Whites subscribe to the sort of heirarchy of difference at times. With Black Americans at the bottom, Caribbeans and then Africans at the top. It's absolutely ridiculous but true.

However, I would have had to say it would have diminished it more than some and heavily faulted it in the White community. And the GOP would have an easy time of destroying him.

It's not even so much the people, but the people of the nation who are so easily influenced by lies and innuendo that come from the GOP and they would use that to promote a whole mess of lies. I could even see the Larry Sinclair crap taking a huge amount of leverage and weight.

The fear is not subconcious...let's not forget Birth of a Nation.

[AspenRose]

85. That's been my observation as well

"Not to mention what's interesting is that even Whites subscribe to the sort of heirarchy (sic) of difference at times. With Black Americans at the bottom, Caribbeans and then Africans at the top. It's absolutely ridiculous but true."

[Robeson]

42. Great, insightful post. And you aren't going out on a limb...

...by saying it would turn some white males off if he'd married a white woman. That's a rhetorical observation which would be - on the most part - indisputable.

[Skittles]

43. interesting

thanks for posting this

your assessment about that fear I think could be dead on - I'll explain. I once dated a guy (white) who seemed like a nice guy - until he got bent out of shape about a "mixed-marriage" couple that moved in next door to him - black man / white woman. After hearing a few veiled comments and thinking the guy wasn't in-your-face racist I asked him - WTF about it bothers you? He told me it was a feeling "they" were taking "our women". It sounded ludicrous to me at the time and I eventually stopped dating him as I realized he was more racist than I thought (screaming STUPID N***** at black man who cut him off in traffic was a wakeup call for me). You are correct, it is indeed a fear.

[StuffyJones]

45. Interesting...Have you heard or read Shelby Steele? Specifically about Obama?

I've been meaning to read it and keep forgetting. I did hear an interview on, I think Bill Moyers, *could be wrong, Steele gave back in Jan. or February.

He felt Obama couldn't win the primaries, but I believe I've heard him say since then that he now thinks Obama can win.

Anyway, in the interview about his book "A Bound Man, Why we are excited about Obama and Why He Can't Win" he brought up many of the same points you mention.

He thought Obama would either be rejected by the "black community" or that to be accepted (which Steele felt he needed to win) he would ultimately alienate too many whites. I thought Steele might be right with Jeremiah Wright...because he was faced with either turning away from Wright (which seemed to risk alienating the black community) or staying with Wright and pissing off closet racist whites.

But, Obama played it just right (sorry for the pun)...and Wright seemed to help him too by calling Obama a phony (essentially).

I think Obama's candidacy is showing the limits of racism in our country. Ultimately, I think white America has to vote for Obama. He's so utterly and completely better qualified than McCain.

I think if Obama loses, it will almost be like losing the civil rights war. America loses if Obama loses and it will be almost like spitting in the face of everyone who thinks skin color is about the dumbest thing to ever judge a person by.

[StuffyJones]

47. Here's the URL to Steele's book...I meant to include it

http://www.amazon.com/Bound-Man-Excited-About-Obama/dp/1416559175/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219209745&sr=8-1

[FrenchieCat]

49. Yes, Shelby Steele is a fool writing about himself.

Obama doesn't fit his prototype....as Obama wasn't raised Black for one. His international view makes him Obama as opposed to the person that Shelby Steele wants to pigeonhole.

I believe that Shelby Steele is married to a White Woman, as is Clarence Thomas if I recall correctly. They may be wearing masks. That's entirely possible. Man in the mirror and all of that.

[StuffyJones]

53. I don't know much about him, is he using the Right? Or maybe they're using him?

[FrenchieCat]

55. Goes both ways......as is usually the case.

[elkston]

62. Agree

You write:
"I think if Obama loses, it will almost be like losing the civil rights war. America loses if Obama loses and it will be almost like spitting in the face of everyone who thinks skin color is about the dumbest thing to ever judge a person by."

I feel the same way. This election is a unique test case that has never been attempted. If he does lose (barring no big screw-ups) it will erode my hopes that we can acheive a post-racial harmony in this generation. It may still be further off.

[JeffR]

48. That's a very fine response, elkston

I wish I'd read only this before wading through some of the gunk responses this thread has attracted.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Those "hits" aren't reflected in voting.

[elkston]

64. Well, not NOW, since Barack is the nominee and there is no choice. However...

in the primaries, if there was a lingering sense that Barack was not 100% "in our (black) tribe", then there would have been more black votes for Hillary. It could have changed the outcome -- especially in the Carolinas.

[BlooInBloo]

65. That "sense" wasn't reflected in the primary either, after Clinton started race-baiting....

Point being: people sometimes *say* what you're saying, but if it isn't reflected in voting patterns, then it's just talk a la "some say".

[elkston]

67. Yeah but my point was, Barack *was* accepted despite the "hits"

because as I described, he married Michelle Obama (a brown-skinned descended-from-slaves black woman) and also because he chose to embrace his black side despite being half-white.

If Barack was married to a white woman, it would have cost him black votes. Whether it would have been enough to lose the primary to Hillary we'll never know. But realize that Hillary had pretty strong black support prior to the Iowa caucuses. Furthermore, if she had won SC, the racial jabs might never have occurred (removing another event that might have caused black votes to rally behind Obama).

[cliffordu]

57. Wonderful post. Thanks, elkston.

[kevinmc]

50. What do I think..... I think" what if" questions are for dumbass's ..... n/t

[StuffyJones]

52. Why? As an attorney I can tell you that you wouldn't much like law school with that sort of attitude

Not that anyone is lesser of a person for not liking law school. But I find hypotheticals fascinating myself and I'm curious why you wouldn't.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Dealing with an hypothetical.....always leaves an open question....

as there is no right answer; just speculation.

It would be like asking if Hillary Clinton could have ran for President and got as far as she did if she hadn't been married to Bill Clinton. So to some degree I think those who don't believe that answering "what if's" serves any purpose and therefore is a dumb thing are perfectly within their rights to state just that.

[StuffyJones]

59. Certainly everyone has a right to speak their mind, But how do any of these discussions differ?

Do some come to a conclusion? I thought the purpose was to think and entertain?

I guess some people are entertained by feeling "above" certain questions...as long as there's no blood on wall, I guess it's all good.

[FrenchieCat]

60. You spoke your mind, and yeah....everyone else gets to as well.

Conclusion on hypothetical is nothing more than a majority view at guessing.

Thinking is good, depending on what you're thinking of.
Some thoughts don't advance anything, and for some, that's not good enough.

It's not about being above or even below......because who's to judge what that is?

It's not always all good, because sometimes the purpose is not that.

[demwing]

63. But McCain is married to a white woman!

And so was Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Reagan. OK, not sure about Bush1. I think Barbara may be something other than a woman....

[mtnester]

70. I think, that on a progressive message board, this type of "what if"

scenario would realy not be asked by a true progressive.


And even with your opening line "apology" I am actually stunned this post is still open.

[WinkyDink]

71. I think this is an utterly pointless question.

[smitty]

94. You're right, it makes no sense. It's counter-factual and leads only

to speculation of no consequence. What if Obama had an Oriental wife? What if Obama was a bachelor? What it Obama was born on Krypton?
A waste of time.

[Skwmom]

72. Why are you asking this?

Are you trying to see if you can argue that Obama, the shrewd politician, only married Michelle b/c she was black, or trying to infer that?

This post is crap.

[scheming daemons]

74. What an incredibly stupid question. How about... if Obama was an alien? if Obama was gay?

if Obama was fat?

if Obama was a terrorist?



Why not ask this:

If McCain married a BLACK woman, would it have utterly destroyed his chances?




Asking a question about a hypothetical that does NOT exist, and has no CHANCE of existing, is ridiculous.



It has the same relevance of asking if Obama were gay.


NONE.

[reflection]

78. Don't underestimate the gay black space alien vote. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

75. Silly question. Might as well ask...what if McCain had a black child? Oh, wait. He does.

Best to save discussions for serious and real matters.

You're trying to make an issue out of nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[elkston]

79. McCain child is from Bangladesh. She is not of African descent.

[Honeycombe8]

93. Where did I say he had an African child? Read my post again. nt

[DailyGrind51]

76. Clarence Thomas is married to a white woman!

[No Elephants]

80. The question is pointless.

[slackmaster]

82. It would be irrelevant - Obama would still be both black and white

:hi:

[CaptJasHook]

84. Sigh.... It just doesn't stop.

:banghead:

[On the Road]

87. I Think It Would Make 5 Point Difference on Election Day

based on nothing more than a gut feel.

[Peacetrain]

89. Good grief..

[Geek_Girl]

95. No Racist aren't going to vote for him anyways

So I don't think it would matter. The only voter block it might affect are African Americans that don't approve of interracial marriages, maybe.

[Doctor_J]

96. WTF?

Who cares?

why are you here?

:wtf: