PUT THE SHOE ON THE OTHER FOOT

[redstate_democrat]

What if Barack Obama had lost the primary. What if Hillary had a great campaign, raised a ton of money, had a real grassroots organization, studied and perfected the Caucus process, played by the rules, got the most delegates, got the most VOTES without even counting the caucus states, won the most states, and didn't run a negative campaign.

Now, what if the loser, Barack Obama, burnt through almost all of his money before February 5th, lost most of the caucuses due to non-preparation, voted for the IWR and refused to apologize until after it became a political necessity, didn't have any ground game at all, only started demanding that MI and FL be seated until after it became clear he couldn't get "within 100 delegates" without them, won fewer states, and ran a negative campaign saying the following remarks:

1. "I know I am ready on day one, I know McCain is ready on day one, but Hillary, she just has Bill Clinton to thank for where she is".
2. "Hillary hasn't crossed the CIC threshhold. McCain and I have."
3. "Hillary is not a murderer, as far as I know"
4. "I have the votes of hard working Americans, black Americans. It is clear that she does not have the key constituent group to win in November"
5. "Yeah, Hillary won in the state of California, but so did Boxer and Feinstein"
6. "This whole thing is a fairytale"
7. "I'm staying in because ... Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June"
8. "I have the base, Blacks, people making over $50k, and the youth vote. Hillary's coalition isn't enough."

and continually eluded to how he was truly the American in the race and that she was just there.

What if he had run on a theme of "experience", without having any executive experience, and she had run on a theme of Change, a clearly winning position in this election against McCain?

And after all of this, what if when she had won the nomination, he refused to concede and vowed to have his supporters voices heard one way or another. And since then, what if he kept harping on about his supporters' voices being heard and a need for a catharsis? What if Michelle Obama, when asked whether or not Hillary is prepared, she said, "Well, no one can really be prepared on the first day". What if the Obamas kept telling everyone "She Can't Win!!". What if Obama blamed his lost on racism in the media and by the voters and demanded that the DNC do something about it.

What if, during all of this, people felt they had to tip toe around Obama and give in to his and his supporters' every demand and whim? What if a group formed called PUMA? The main gripe of this group is that they feel like Blacks weren't treated fairly during the process and they want to protect Democratic voters, the assumption being that "real Democratic voters" are Blacks and the rest of Obama's supporters, not Hillary's. What if they claimed that Hillary only became the nominee because of "unfair" Caucuses both agreed to and the fact she is a woman. What if these people spread vicious rumors about Hillary being a murderer, not really an American, a cocaine addict, about her lying about being heterosexual, about her birth, about Bill Clinton working for the Saudis and undermining Americans, etc. WHat if this group vowed to shut down the Convention and remove the DNC leadership because they are mad a Black didn't get the nomination this time and it is THEIR TIME AND IT IS OWED TO THEM.

What if all of Obama's and his supporter's concerns were included in the platform and Michelle, Barack, and Malia and Sasha got prime speaking slots at the Convention. Obama got Axelrod to produce his only video, bypassing the DNC and Hillary Campaign? And what if through all of this, Obama was demanding that Hillary pay off his campaign debt...debt he amassed when it was clear he would not win.

What if through all of this, a bout 20% of Obama's supporters said they would not vote for Hillary because either she is white, not a man, or not a real Democrat. And Obama said nothing or did nothing to shut these people down.

What if the shoe were on the other foot? How would you respond? This is the most important election in a generation. Would you still respect Barack and Michelle Obama?




PUMABOFB! PARTY UNITY MY ASS BUT ONLY FOR BLACKS!

[NashVegas]

1. 3. "Hillary is not a murderer, as far as I know"

I think that pretty much says it all, a stunning example of why so many of the Clinton primary voters think a certain portion of DUers have lost their fucking minds and any shred of intellectual honesty they may have ever had, if they had any to begin with.

[redstate_democrat]

5. What it says is this:

Hillary knows Barack Obama is not a Muslim.

Everyone knows Hillary is not a murderer.

These are vicious rumors spread about the both of them.

Now, if Obama, knowing that the accusation is NOT TRUE, said, she is not, AS FAR AS I KNOW, then that would be a problem for me.

[redstate_democrat]

9. You are intentionally being obtuse.

Both are vicious rumors. Instead of saying what she should have said, that no he is not, she said AS FAR AS I KNOW.

Your reaction seems to indicate that one rumor is more vicious than the other. Mischaracterizing someone as having a different religion than what he has, stating he is a) a liar and b) a possible Jihadist (clearly that is the only reason this particular Muslim rumor is being spread, it isn't because people are worried he isn't a Christian) is no different than claiming someone is a) lying about not being a murderer b) is, in fact, a murderer.

[highplainsdem]

16. I saw a longer transcript of that interview posted, beyond just that quote, and the

interviewer had pressed Clinton again and again on the same damn question despite her having said earlier that Obama is Christian, as if suggesting she were wrong, until she FINALLY concluded with that statement...and of course that's what the media played up. That quote was taken out of context to make her look bad.

Your reaction seems to indicate that one rumor is more vicious than the other.

One rumor IS much more vicious. It's much more vicious to suggest the Clintons are murderers...and that's something I have seen suggested by all too many misguided DUers who sound insane, whether they're "joking" that if Clinton were the VP, Obama would need a food taster, or whether they're explaining in completely lunatic seriousness that yes, she is homicidal.

[KittyWampus]

2. Obama would have NEVER continued on after the Math made his loss certain.

[Avalux]

3. I think we should quit beating a dead horse.

By continuing to pose "what if's" and lookiing backward instead of forward, we are giving the nutty Hillary supporters who won't vote for Obama way too much attention.

I am confident Obama's campaign is in control and we will have closure at the convention. After it's all over, the Democratic Party will be Obama's.

[redstate_democrat]

7. I am simply not understanding the purpose of having to tip toe around

these Deadenders. No one took anything away from them. Obama won fair and square. I am simply posing a hypothetical to them to get them to see how crazy all of this is.

[Avalux]

13. They won't see how crazy all of this is -

so there's no point. By being gracious and essentially taking away their bluster, they lose.

[DogPoundPup]

8. !

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

14. Word. Let's beat up on our creepy, K Street, warmongering, filthy rich,

skirt-chasing, unpleasant actual opponent, can we?

[Bluerthanblue]

4. .

:thumbsdown: puma's

[Egnever]

6. Perfect

The division will disapear when she steps off the stage.

[highplainsdem]

17. So you want Clinton to disappear so you can try to pretend she didn't get 18 million votes?

Maybe you should join another party if you can't cope with the Democratic Party.

[Egnever]

18. I couldnt care less about her 18 million votes

And that number is falacy anyway you throw that number around like it was some sort of hard and fast support number when in fact it is nebulous support at best. If it were real support she wouldn't still be begging for her debt.


What I care about is Obama getting elected. Clinton has little or nothing to do with getting that done at this point , her part in the process other than voicing support for Obama is over. And after the convention even you will have to accept it.

So keep posting your Hillary deserves this stuff and I will keep posting how SHE LOST HER TIME IS OVER!

See ya in the next thread.

[David Zephyr]

10. But the real news is that Barack won the nomination. He is our candidate and she is not.

And he is being magnanimous and gracious and I think we should follow his lead.

[annabanana]

11. If the sky fell, we'd all have larks. . . .

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride....
If me Aunt had balls, she'd be me Uncle. . .

This exercise gains us nothing. Anyone raising hell, supposedly in Hillary's name, at this point must be considered to be a disruptor.

[LisaM]

12. It still wouldn't make the caucus system fair

I didn't like it before this election cycle and I like it even less now. It's undemocratic and favors certain demographics (depending on when they are held).

[Blue_In_AK]

15. I seem to remember that in years past

lots of people's names were thrown into the mix at convention time. I see nothing wrong with Hillary's supporters putting her name out there. Hillary herself has said she will cast her vote for Obama, so what's the problem with the symbolic recognition of her (also) history-making campaign? You people need to chill out -- your guy's got the nomination.

[The Magistrate]

19. You Quite Miss The Point, Ma'am

We can leave aside the grotesque exaggerations of reality in your exercise in mirroring, as they only illustrate partisan heat and were not intended to shed light but rather get in one more dig at a defeated opponent.

The point is this.

The primary was a very close run business, in which both pledged delegates and popular vote split pretty near to fifty-fifty. That one contender held a slight edge is decisive to the outcome, but does not affect the reality that the defeated faction is about the same size as the victorious one. In such a situation the victor is not positioned to dictate terms and break his or her defeated opponent. The victor needs the allegiance of the vanquished faction, and has no means available to compel it. That is the reality of the situation, and it has guided the actions of Sen. Obama and his campaign since the conclusion of the primary. The defeated faction's leaders know that if the general election effort fails, they will be blamed for it if they have not made every effort to bring their followers to the victor's banner. That reality has guided the actions of Sen. Clinton and her campaign since the close of the primaries. You may feel that she has done a poor job of this, but that is neither here nor there: you are not part of the faction she leads, and poorly positioned to judge what will be effective in moving it in the right direction. There is no evidence whatever that Sen. Obama is displeased with Sen. Clinton's efforts on this line, and there is abundant evidence he is pleased by her efforts, and that the two are co-operating closely. Persons who proclaim themselves to be supporters of Sen. Obama present an odd spectacle when they engage in activities that are clearly contrary to the line taken by the man they claim to support. At this juncture, vitriol aimed at Sen. Clinton, and vitriol aimed at supporters of Sen. Clinton, does damage to the prospects of the Party's nominee for President in the general election this fall. Persons who support Sen. Obama for President will accordingly avoid such actions; persons who persist in them raise serious question regarding whether they actually support Sen. Obama in his quest for the Presidency of the United States.

"Politics ain't bean-bag."