Chuck Hagel just might be the VP pick and it may already be decided

[Gman]

from Drudge regarding Obama's trip to the ME:

Later, Douglass confirmed that Sens. Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel were on the plane before our arrival. Your pool had not seen them at Andrews.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashop.htm

He didn't go with Hillary and the only other Senator in his traveling party was Jack Reed. Given the recent speculation about Obama picking Hagel, and working on the premise that where there's smoke there's something real hot, why else would Hagel be traveling with Obama to the ME?

I'd give Hagel 1/1 odds right now that he's the VP pick. If the VP pick is not Hillary, I can live with Hagel.

[Olney Blue]

1. I disagree. Obama is not going to do that to us.

[Gman]

2. That assumes Obama thinks he would be "doing something" to

whoever "us" is.

[Olney Blue]

8. Would he really force us to stomach an anti-choice VP?

[adoraz]

3. I personally wouldn't mind Hagel.... however...

I highly doubt it will happen.

[slick8790]

10. You don't mind putting a conservative republican a heartbeat away from the presidency?

You don't mind an anti-choice vp?
You don't mind an anti-environment, pro-drug war, pro-corporate republican in the white house again?

You're crazy.

[adoraz]

17. Not at all

I'm not nearly as liberal as most here. I lean liberal, and I almost always vote Democrat (and there is a 100% chance I will this year), but the war is the #1 issue for me and Hagel sides with Obama on that.

Its not going to happen, but I wouldn't mind him. He wouldn't be my top pick however. Richardson would be.

[slick8790]

22. So you have no problem with someone who is anti-choice, anti-gay rights, and anti-environment?

Supporting those doesn't make you "not nearly as liberal as most here". Supporting those makes you a conservative.

[adoraz]

23. I don't agree with Obama 100% either

every survey I have taken says I am a moderate Liberal. I almost always like Democratic candidates more than Republican and therefore vote for them.

I have been 100% behind Obama since day 1.

Trust me, I know what I am. You don't.

[ruggerson]

30. Hagel is against 90% of what we stand for

The war is not the only issue on the table. It's one of many.

[adoraz]

39. All I'm saying is I wouldn't mind him, and what do you mean by "we"?

I never said he would be my pick.

"We"?

Are you saying that the far left speaks for all Democrats?

I don't think so. I am just as big an Obama supporter as anyone here. That is why I visit this forum, to get Obama elected.

This forum is for moderate Liberals as well. I hope you know that.

[slick8790]

45. But not for moderate liberals who support conservative republicans for VP.

For one second I'd like you to look here:

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Chuck_Hagel.htm

Forget the war for one second, and look at his record on everything else. It is a travesty.

If you are, in fact, a "moderate liberal" then his stance on everything except the Iraq war should be offensive to you.

[adoraz]

52. the reason I wouldn't mind

in entirely based on whether he will help us win. If polls prove he won't help, then I don't want him.

Looking over that, I certainly agree more with Obama than with him.... but unless a tragedy happens like Obama dies in office, he shouldn't be a problem.

As I said though, if he will be able to help us win more than any other candidate, I will take him. if not (which is highly likely), I don't want him on the ticket.

[ruggerson]

48. "We" as Democrats. We do have a party platform.

It's pretty much the mirror image of the Republican one.

Hagel disagrees with almost all of it.

[adoraz]

58. Obama's message has always been simple

bringing people together, both Democrats and Republicans.

That is a major reason why I like him so much, and if he picks a Republican then I will continue to fully support him.

Like it or not, a Republican VP would actually strengthen Obama's unity message.

If Obama does indeed pick Hagel then I suggest you find a different party.

Stop pretending I'm not a Democrat just because I would be open to a Republican VP if Obama chooses one.

[ruggerson]

69. lol

a bit defensive and nasty, aren't ya? Where'd all the unity feelings go? Where did I "pretend" that you were anything? Look back at what I wrote to you. I never once said or implied you were anything.

As to the issue being discussed; a conservative Republican would hardly strengthen Obama's message. It would completely dilute it. The way this country works is that you have to actually stand for something in order to gain or wield power. I have no problem with compromising with Republicans occasionally to actually accomplish something, as long as those compromises don't work against our interests.

I have a big problem with handing over the second most important constitutional position we have to someone who is diametrically opposed to almost all of our positions as a party. And diametrically opposed to almost all of Obama's positions.

Beyond that, I don't think it's going to happen.

[adoraz]

70. well to me

it seemed you were implying that in the title headlines. Its hard to tell on the Internet, but that's what it seemed like to me. Everyone attacked me just because I said I would be open to this. Its just my opinion, and it doesn't make me any less of a supporter.

Its not like I have ever even pushed for him anyways. If I did then I could understand some of the hostility.

For the record, I think its highly unlikely it will happen either, but if it does I will support him. That all I'm saying.

[Political Heretic]

80. I'd say he's been more than calm and civil under your silly goading.

[ruggerson]

94. I think you have it backwards

[adoraz]

96. I could have been nicer, but your statements were clear to me

>>>Hagel is against 90% of what we stand for

To me that implied that I don't belong here and that only the far left wing does. There is no "WE" here. People here aren't all 100% liberal. Some are, but many aren't.

and then....

>>>"We" as Democrats. We do have a party platform.

I support the Democratic nominee and whoever he chooses as his VP. I am here to work hard to get Obama elected. That should be enough.

[ruggerson]

99. I'm hardly far left

I'm probably to the right of you on many issues.

But, we as Democrats coalesce around certain basic ideals and ideas.

I have no idea why you felt excluded when I mentioned "we" as Democrats, but it wasn't anything I wrote or implied.

I am voicing my opinion about Obama selecting a very *conservative* Republican as his running mate.

We agree that it is not likely to happen.

[adoraz]

101. Okay, well if you truly didn't mean that

then I apologize. That was just the impression that I got.

As you said we agree that it probably won't happen so lets just leave it at that.

[ruggerson]

103. No problem

I have aggressively disagreed with a few of those that are actively pushing for Hagel or someone of his ilk, because I don't believe it's in the best interests of our party or country. But, you're not advocating that position, so we're not on opposite sides of the fence on this one.

[adoraz]

105. and since I made it clear

in the beginning that I wasn't advocating for that position, you didn't need to argue in the first place. ;) :evilgrin:

:pals:

I do think that he has less than a 1% chance though. If he was picked, these forums would crash instantly. It would probably be a very ugly time at DU.

Then again, when I supported Obama last year I also thought he had no chance so who knows.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spouting Horn]

71. The war/foreign policy

is a huge issue for many, like myself, and the main reason to support Obama.

Obama must pick someone who can help him win...I don't necessarily think Chuck Hagel is that person, and it would be very unusual for a Democrat to pick a GOP running mate...I don't think it's going to happen.

[adoraz]

exactly my thoughts

agreed 100%

[gateley]

38. Several potential VP picks agree with Obama regarding the war. Not reason enough. nt

[WinkyDink]

88. I like your last sentence. :)

[adoraz]

90. glad to hear it, I'm really pulling for him as well :)

I think he has a pretty good shot.

[movonne]

46. Anyone who would find this alright would be a right leaning dem...for

God sake he only agrees with us on the war...

[adoraz]

67. wrong.

stop ASSuming things. Read my other posts if you want on this before posting again.

[depakid]

4. That's a deal breaker to a lot of folks

who simply won't vote for a Republican. Ever.

[Gman]

24. I assume that "A lot of folks" means

people here at DU and the "progressives" in general, whatever that is.

This party is a whole lot bigger than "a lot of folks" and the "progressives" are a small minority in the Democratic Party. The fact is that these same folks are between a rock and a hard place if they don't like the VP pick. They're damn sure not going to vote for McCain and I don't think they're stupid enough to stay home or vote for Cynthia McKinney. So they have no choice but to vote for the nominee they forced on everyone else.

These folks got their pick for the nominee. How much more do they want?

[depakid]

29. It means a lot of folks I know IRL

Want to close the enthusiasm gap with McCain in one fell swoop? Here's the chance-

[slick8790]

34. How much more do "they want"?

You think it's too much to ask to put a Democrat on a Democratic Party ticket? We have an extraordinarily deep bench. We don't need to be pulling people who disagree with 90% of what the Democratic party stands for.

[onetinsoldier]

83. labels equals a lazy mind

believe it or not most human beings are complex,i am a registered repub but i voted for gore and kerry and really like obama,people that like to use labels and almost have a compulsion to put people in categories simply have a lazy mind and do not appreciate the complexity of human beings and the nuances of life and living.

[Whisp]

47. McKinney was one of the best representatives

too bad she got swiftboated by her own party, she was a dynamo working for important causes.

i can't sit back and let anyone say that supporting her is stupid.

Cynthia made Rumsfeld squinch his puckered ass on the missing billions/trillions, she had him sweating. i will love her forever for just that one move.

[movonne]

49. Being a dem does not mean that you are just against the war...not

far left(whatever that means). I guess then that makes you far right dem...

[varelse]

97. I would vote for Cynthia

most of the people I know would stay home. This probably would not lose my state for Obama, though. California's pretty much in his pocket. It *would* lose him some campaign contributions, probably a fairly large amount.

[Ravy]

95. There was no "deal" in the first place.

Obama said repeatedly that he would reach out like this. That was the deal he offered to the Democratic primary voters. If people accepted it then, they have no right now to try to change the conditions of their support over this.

If anyone thought the deal that they had with supporting Obama is that he would kick Republican's and their ideas to the curb, then first of all, they were not listening, and second of all Obama never, ever, indicated that he was accepting that part of the arrangement.

[katandmoon]

116. It's a deal breaker for me. If I wanted to vote for a conservative asshole I'd vote for McCain

The war is NOT my #1 issue. Social and domestic issues are. Hagel flunks my test on all of them.

I can't believe Obama would choose Hagel when there are so many good Democratic options.

[vaberella]

Extremely doubtful. They share a position on the war and

from my knowledge Hagel wanted to accompany him because this is what Hagel has been fighting in the Senate for so long. He's retiring, with bang. I don't think Hagel will be picked as VP but might be asked to be on Obama's team in another capacity.

[babylonsister]

5. We've known for days that Hagel and Reed were going on this trip.

Doesn't mean anything other than Obama has a rethug and a Dem with him, both who oppose this illegal occupation. That's smart politics.

[SteveM]

19. To counter-balance McCain dragging Lieberman around like a bad fart (nt)

[cbc5g]

6. Obama said he is a different candidate and wants to bring the sides together

It would piss me off if he chose a moderate Republican as a VP but I'd still vote for him. I'm weary about Hagel's pro-life stance however. Obama must make sure that if something happens to him, our country isn't fucked over by an "immoral minority" loon.

[anonymous171]

7. Won't be Hagel unless he wants to lose big time.

I wouldn't mind Hagel, but I know lots of other people do.

[movonne]

54. In other words you don't care about other issues than the war...I just

can't believe that dems would find it alright for a very right leaning repug could be a dem president...well this is about the dumbest thing I have every heard...

[anonymous171]

57. I wouldn't mind it, but I would not like it either.

I don't really like wedge issues that much anyways. Foreign policy and economic policy are my two big issues.

[GarbagemanLB]

9. I can see Hagel in the cabinet, but not as VP.

He might be anti-war, but that is about all Obama and him agree on.

[high density]

11. Obama trip with Hagel & Reed = Hagel for VP?

When people come to conclusions it would be nice if there were some logic that the rest of us could follow to reach that same conclusion. I am not seeing that here.

[last_texas_dem]

12. I don't believe such a choice would be very helpful for Obama

If one of the primary roles for a VP is to defend the Presidential candidate's record and stances on the issues, having a VP candidate at odds with the Presidential candidate's stances on the vast majority of issues would seem to present a major complication.

[redstate_democrat]

104. Exactly. I'm starting to believe that some of these "Democrats"

want us to lose. Hagel for VP? Are you fucking insane or what? Some of the shit speculated about just defies logic at times.

Hagel disagrees with everything else Democrats stand for besides opposition to the war. He believes in the very same wedge issues Republicans have been using to get elected so that they can do dumb shit like take us to war with Iraq. He might disagree about this war, but what about five years from now?

[bluestateguy]

13. He'd make a fine Secretary of Defense

we need to remember, however, that on issues removed from Iraq he is a pretty down the line Republican.

[vaberella]

26. That's what ran through my head.

[tkmorris]

14. Nice source there G

Even if Hagel was on the plane, so what? Maybe Obama is just doing what he always said he would, trying to find common ground with Repubs. That doesn't mean he's having sex with the man fer cryin' out loud.

[roamer65]

15. I don't want another Rethuglican POS that close to the presidency.

EVER. No to Hagel as VP. Period.

[Not the Only One]

16. The only 1/1 odds on VP is that the VP will be white

I think Obama and Hagel are friends, but Hagel is anti-choice, pro-business, anti-LGBT, and anti-civil rights.

[vaberella]

27. Exactly. The key is they share a common position on this war.

However they are polar opposites on all stands which are very close to Obama and the Dems and the majority of Obama's supporters.

[nevergiveup]

18. Not going to happen

You've got to admire Hagel for his courage to take on Republicans regarding Iraq but this is about the only area where Obama and him would agree. Republican Hagel as VP having the tie breaking vote in the Senate? Obama is not a fool.

[movonne]

63. This is a deal breaker for me...that would be the one thing that would

do it for me...and I can't see why some here find it alright...I have to wonder what has happened to our dem party..when they call you far left because we would object to a possible repug as president...

[newmajority]

20. FUCK that election stealing republican criminal bastard.

:puke:

[Sparkly]

21. No way!!

Drudge?!

We will NOT have a Republican on the ticket.

[mvd]

25. I hope it's just so he can help with the campaign

There's no way Hagel would become a new person overnight. And it would not help with Hillary supporters. And I'd have a big problem with a typical Repuke running as VP.

[Duder]

28. Nonsense...

If you're going to speculate the vp pick based on those that went along on the world tour, you could just as easily say Biden.

The chief of staff to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Tony Blinken, is accompanying Barack Obama on his high-profile trip to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Blinken is chairman Joe Biden’s right-hand man on the Foreign Relations Committee and considered his closest adviser.

Biden, a Delaware Democrat, has often been mentioned as a possible running mate with Obama and the presence of his top committee staffer and long-time friend and adviser is sure to further speculation about an emerging Obama-Biden relationship.

[eleny]

31. Never

The reasons are obvious - it's a Democratic ticket.

[rucky]

32. SOD n/t

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

35. Obama picking Hagel would be a gift to McCain. nt

[gateley]

36. Disagree.

He's too conservative as his voting record will attest.

I could see maybe SOD or something, but not VP.

Also don't think the VP will be Hillary.

We'll probably both be wrong -- and surprised. :7

[Hamlette]

37. No. fucking. way. It will not happen and if you are looking for why Hagel went with him, it is too

easy.

To be the balance for Lieberman going with McCain.

Sheesh.

Repeat after me: There is no fucking way in hell a dem would name a republican vice president. It would be the quickest way to losing and if some miracle happened and he did win? They would impeach him within a flipping week to get "their" guy in the WH.

NA GA HA PEN

[scarletwoman]

40. 1-It was announced weeks ago that Hagel & Reed were going. 2-I think you're just trying to shit stir

There will be NO Republican on a Democratic ticket, period. And I consider anyone who keeps flogging this stupid notion to be a saboteur, intent on sowing discord.

sw

[blogslut]

41. Nice leap of logic there

Are all Obama's traveling companions potential VP picks?

[AspenRose]

42. Why are you quoting Drudge?

It's not Hagel.

[movonne]

43. And if something happened to Obama ... we would have a repug

for president....How could you live with that and what are you thinking...the only thing he agrees with us on is the war...

[Rowdyboy]

44. Jack Reed just might be the VP pick and it may already be decided....

But I seriously doubt either one stands a chance. They're merely helpful at the moment.

The VP will be someone totally different.

[NYC_SKP]

50. It demonstrates well that he'll work with Republicans.

That much is certain, if it means more remains to be seen.

[stimbox]

55. I'd rather he ran with scissors pointed at the other side of the aisle.

Playing well with Repukes is not a good sign.

[Blue_In_AK]

51. Where's that "oh, no, not this shit again" photo? n/t

[stimbox]

53. Here ya go...

[Blue_In_AK]

56. Thanks - that's the one. :-)

[RNdaSilva]

119. Yep...

[BlooInBloo]

59. Or you and Drudge could just be making shit up.

[applegrove]

60. It was announced earlier that Hagel would be travelling with Obama. Then, after that, there

was speculation about Hagel being VP. You have it backwards.

[saltpoint]

61. I'm not getting Hagel as the veep pick.

That could be way off, but it just doesn't feel right. Possibly Hagel as Sec. of Defense, similar to Clinton's choice of William Cohen.

But not as veep.

We have more good people for the veep slot than the Republicans have bad people for theirs. A deep bench of blue candidates.

You get crowing rights if it turns out to be Chuck Hagel, but I think Obama will stick with a Democrat for that job.

[Jazzgirl]

62. I call bullshit.

No way will Obama name a puke as his running mate. Now, do I think he might offer Hagel a cabinet position if he wanted? I wouldn't be surprised about that. I don't think Obama would fragment the Democratic party inviting a puke as his VP.

Drudge is hardly a credible source. I will not click on the link.

[Runcible Spoon]

64. These threads are FUCKING INSANE.

please stop escalating DU's decline into DLC madness :puke:

[rox63]

65. These Senate trips abroad are always bipartisan

This trip has zero to do with VP picks.

[fishwax]

66. Not gonna happen

You'd really bet even money that Hagel winds up on the Democratic ticket?

[Awsi Dooger]

68. Even odds on Hagel?

You can get roughly 10/1 on Intrade. There is some money on him today but the most recent contracts are below 10.

You can see that the public shouldn't bet. The estimation of true odds is surreal on message boards. I just wish the market sites were as flimsy.

[Gman]

87. You make money by playing the longshot

Often that mutual pool longshot is the one that really should be the favorite.

[World Citizen]

72. take another look at your evidence...

there is NOTHING there.... zero that really leads to your conclusion... or drudie's conclusion or whoever's conclusion it actually is.

Let me ask you this. Do you think the murders of JFK, MLK and RFK were the work of some random guys that had nothing to do with a struggle for political power?

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. Drudge?!

Yeah whatever.

[totodeinhere]

74. You might be guessing wrong.

It is traditional that these types of trips be bipartisan. Therefore he needed a Republican to come with him, and who better to choose then Hagel since Hagel agrees with Obama on many foreign policy issues.

There is nothing more to it than that IMO. No way does this necessarily mean that Obama will pick Hagel to be VP.

[polmaven]

75. Drudge!!!

Now THERE'S a reliable source!

[Sensitivity]

76. Don't support Hagel as V.P. BUT IT IS A REAL OPTION THAT DEMS MUST GET THEIR HEAD AROUND

[depakid]

77. How so?

Since you've shouted, you must have a strong opinion....

[tkmorris]

78. Well, YOU certainly have been pushing it

But no one else is.

[Gman]

102. I wouldn't term it with such a broad brush like DEMS

Those that would have a problem with Hagel start with some here at DU and so-called the pure fundamentalist liberals in general.

He wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with Hagel if Hillary is not the VP pick.

[Runcible Spoon]

117. oh how cute. you're here now.

:puke:

[FreepFryer]

81. No fucking way, this is a typical GOP tactic to create division. Hagel is just as self-interested...

...as the rest of the GOP, he just saw the ship sinking before the rest of the Republican corrupto-clowns and decided to distance himself.

[Political Heretic]

82. This is nothing but silly guessing. There are far better choices for Obama strategy than Hagel.

I have no doubt that a Hagel would be likely to play some role in an Obama administration. But also believe that Obama does in fact care about certain elements of the Democratic Platform. I don't believe he'll be putting a person one heartbeat away from the Presidency who does not support the Democratic Platform 90% of the time.

This is just, once again, the media trying to push its own ideas of what would be "interesting" or jack up ratings.

[golddigger]

84. Obama/Hagel or Obama/Powell! Now that some change we can believe in.

[Sensitivity]

86. Evidence is IN that a Repub popular w Indies would be the most certain route to OBAMA LANDSLIDE!

We may not like it. But that is the fact.

[FreepFryer]

98. Evidence is IN that a slimy Republican does not belong as the Democratic Party VP candidate! (n/t)

[scarletwoman]

91. It's bullshit and you damn well know it.

[golddigger]

106. Well, tell it to the ones who see no problem with it..

[scarletwoman]

109. The main people pushing these stupid ideas here are those who resent that Obama won the primary.

That is, if they aren't just deliberate saboteurs out to cause dissension and division.

[Sensitivity]

111. Do you have any EVIDENCE for this. Seems to me the OPPOSITE is true.

It is some Hillary supporters who are most vehemently against supporting OBAMA'S CHOICE UNCONDITIONALLY.

[Raine]

85. I have a strict personal policy of NEVER voting for a rePIG

so that would leave me in a real quandary. :-(

[WinkyDink]

89. Likewise.

[LWolf]

92. No quandary here.

I have that same policy, and would not think twice about enforcing it in this case.

[TankLV]

93. O fucking ... not this shit againl...

Mark my words - if they put a repuke on the ticket as VP, obama WILL be assisinated by the crazies and you will have another REPUKE president.

Obama needs a VP that the crazies will think is WORSE than him as an "insurance policy". Period.

And, I have never voted for a repuke in my life, and I will not start now...if obama - who is debatable at best if I will vote for him as opposed of sitting this one out - picks Hagel or any other repuke - I will DEFINITELY not vote for the ticket. Period. And I am FAR from alone.

I will NEVER vote for a repuke. Never...

[BlooInBloo]

100. You forgot the pic....

[Ichingcarpenter]

112. Or this one

[FreepFryer]

108. Ahhh... I love it... Kucinich for VP! Kucinich for VP! No GOP wackjob would touch Obama. (n/t)

[TheDonkey]

107. OBAMA WILL NOT PICK HAGEL. NUFF SAID

HE IS A REPUBLICAN, OBAMA IS A DEMOCRAT. END OF STORY. But he'll likely get a cabinet spot.

[NancyG]

110. I really, really doubt it as

Hagel is anti-choice and not appropriate to serve as pres.

I do, however, expect to see Hagel somewhere in the cabinet.

[Sensitivity]

113. Casey, Baracks best friend in PA is PRO-LIFE. It;s not a crime.

[cliffordu]

114. Is this 'Yet another Hagel Thread???"

[Blue_In_AK]

115. As soon as you kill one

another one pops up. I don't know what's becoming of this place.

[opihimoimoi]

118. It would be a serious breach of Party, common sense, and logical Rules

I vote NO to said proposal....However, should Hagel give a mea culpa on the GOP..denounce them...quit...then reborn as a registered DEM...that might be a diff story...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

120. ANYBODY who believes this jackassshit is Certifiably Delusional.

Or, you know, pretending.

[karynnj]

121. This is idiotic - Hagel is the Ranking member of the NE and ME SFRC subcommittee

and Reed is a West Point educated senior member of the Armed Services Committee. (Kerry, who is the Chair of the SFRC subcommittee just went to the middle east earlier this month) It is true that HRC is on the Armed Services Committee, but having joined it in 2002, she is an extremely junior member.

My guess for why he is with Hagel is most SFRC fact finding missions are bipartisan and he will need bipartisan support for the major policy changes he intends to make. I watched the Iran (not Iraq) hearing in the SFRC recently. What was interesting was that there was a huge amount of common ground between Kerry, Biden, Lugar and Hagel (Bill Nelson was there too but said little). Part of healing the country is to make foreign policy bipartisan again.

[JTFrog]

122. Fuck Sludge and the OP it rode it on. n/t