Funny how progressives are taking ownership of Obama just because he won. Newsflash...

[onetwo]

...the same man who has continually said things like this for the past 4 years:

"...there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there's the United States of America... The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America."

...was never YOUR candidate. He never spoke to YOU exclusively. Stop acting like YOU were in some way "betrayed."

"Progressives..."

Everyone appreciates the help you offered in getting him the nomination. But "help" is what it was. YOU did not build him up by yourselves, not by a longshot -- his coalition is not comprised solely of YOU, not by a longshot. So stop behaving as if YOU wield the ultimate power to destroy him simply because he disagrees with you on an issue or three -- you DON'T.

Still, your help is needed. It saddens me that Democrats were responsible for letting the FISA and faith-based initiatives stories become stories, allowing the Repubs to resuscitate the tired "flip-flop" narrative based on the outrage of progressives who apparently misunderstood where Obama has been coming from since his splash onto the national scene in 2004. The sooner you realize that electing someone that you agree with 80% or even only 50% of the time is FAR superior to... McCain, the sooner we'll all unify around the goal of putting a good Democrat in the Oval Office.

[grantcart]

1. sure find some obscure talk he gave in a junior high or something to make your point

(and welcome to DU)

[Undercurrent]

4. Huh?

You think his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention was obscure?

[grantcart]

7. they don't have a smilie for sardonic understatement

and I just don't think :sarcasm: captures the full effect. lol

[Undercurrent]

15. LOL Well it went right over my head.

[NYC_SKP]

8. I believe grantcart was being "obscure".

He is one of the most authoritative and valuable posters here.

I was going to suggest that Obama wrote it in Kindergarten.

:hi:

[Undercurrent]

16. I see that now. I was slow on the uptake.

[high density]

47. lol

It's so funny how our candidate make senses when you listen to what he's saying instead of just feeling blind outrage 24/7.

[skooooo]

51. Obama said this over and over again...

Wake up!!!!

[NYC_SKP]

2. Nice post...K&R

Well said, nothing to add except:

Grab a pastrami sandwich from Katz's for me if you get down to E. Houston.

And welcome to DU!

:thumbsup:

[onetwo]

12. I'm a Quiznos kind of guy. Yeah... sad ;)

Thanks for the welcome :)

[NattPang]

3. Didn't he also said that he wasn't going to be perfect?

and that sometimes, we would disagree?

The people still going on about FISA
are gutting any hopes to restore
my constitutional rights.

They are helping John McCain get elected.
They are no better than those they criticize.

[tblue]

5. I wanted Edwards, but I'll take OB over any (R) any day.

The lost opportunity with FISA is a major blow.

Obama is, if not a HUMONGOUS step in the right direction, at least a significant step out of the bowels of hell. He is not yet beyond redemption. And he may yet evolve to be the one "we've been waiting for."

[EFerrari]

6. This forum should be renamed GD: Authoritarians.

For every post with information that is interesting, there are twenty five telling other posters what to do.

:rant:

[jobycom]

13. It's a good bet that when the thread title says "Newsflash,"

the tone of the post will generally by somewhat, shall we say, assertive.

I like reading these types of posts, though. It reminds me of why I eventually grew up and left home.

[stimbox]

14. Be careful Beth. You might end up in GD: Thought Crime.

Or GD: Reeducation Camp.

[QC]

43. Comrade, it's not a Reeducation Camp! It's a worker's resort,

where we go to rest and engage in soothing chants and have such mental disorders as "hate" and "concern" treated. You might end up there yourself if you continue to speak against the party like this! (For your own good, of course.)

[stimbox]

54. Da, tovarich GD: worker's resort. n/t

[QC]

55. Excellent, comrade. Please clap harder. n/t

[stimbox]

9. A lot of us progressives knew better... n/t

[NYC_SKP]

10. Have you met our Purity Squad?

Don't worry--they'll find you.

They seem to just hate "hope", it makes them hopeless.

:rofl:

[depakid]

11. Nice. Put down the most important set of voters who CLEARLY got him the nomination

over Clinton.

Speaking of Clinton- a LOT of the far right enabling and legitimizing actions under his aministration (and DINO's in Congress ) are EVERY BIT as responsible for the debacle the US finds itself in today as anything Republicans have done- aided and abetted by admonishments like we're hearing in the OP.

[onetwo]

19. See... This is the revisionist history I'm talking about.

I think near unanimous AA support and the mobilization of the large anti-war segment of the population had far more to do with pushing Obama over the edge versus Clinton.

And you've proven my point that you don't have to agree with the choice 100% -- as long as you agree on more than you disagree, put him in office and let him do good. And, despite the problems over those 8 years, Bill Clinton did a lot of good during his tenure. Certainly, his 8 were better than the last 8.

[NYC_SKP]

21. Precisely...the purity squad is also delusional...

....they think that what they've given they can take away...

Isn't that special?

More than one good democratic nominee has been sunk due to the division of such attitudes and actions. That's a fact.

Good on you, onetwo!

[onetwo]

26. Exactly. Not to mention the hypocrisy of complaining about putting down a voting bloc...

...when many progressives have been doing the same to the other 80% of the population with whom they don't completely see eye-to-eye (you're right, that includes former candidates) since the word "progressive" entered the lexicon of politics ;)

[depakid]

29. Yep, We're delusional alright

We go around pulling facts and percentages right out of our asses, with no data to back it up- and we never engage in critical thinking or objective analysis.

And we name call too!

Fact is, in poll after poll on issue after issue, the American electorate agrees with progressive positions- as in, traditional Democratic valuess (i'll cite sources if you wish).

That said, a substantial portion of the electorate finds it MORE IMPORTANT that a candidate is percieved to STAND UP for what they believe in (or what they're expected to believe in). That's why over the past 15 years, Republicans have won on the national level time and time again, despite holding what are (sometimes profoundly) unpopular positions.

Unfortunately, some like a poster in this thread are unble to grasp that fairly simple dynamic, preferring to ridicule others for purity, while promoting a proven LOSING strategy.


Again, there are multiple sources on this contention, too- from expeienced and credible observers and analysists. Why they aren't listened to will be a curious question for historians.

[onetwo]

32. Repubs can afford to stand up for their beliefs because Dems are too busy going after their own.

Anyway, please cite your sources (serious request).

[NYC_SKP]

45. Oh, SNAP! nt

[depakid]

38. A few sources

It's Time to Recognize America's Huge Progressive Majority

You can cross reference the quoted studies:

http://www.alternet.org/story/54409/

And the latest from George Lakoff (deconstucting the oft repeated "must move to the center" blunder):

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/07/10162/

Glen Greenwald- showing specific examples of how the dynamic works:

The Baseless, and Failed, ‘Move to the Center’ Cliche

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/30/9990/

[onetwo]

53. Thank you.

Reading...

[depakid]

23. It's hardly revisionist history

Of course African Americans were a key group of supporters. But the choice ultimately came down to a referrendum on Clinton style triangulation. And progressives didn't want a repeat performance (despite the contrast with Bush).

[NanceGreggs]

17. Brilliant!!!

I had the same reaction when I started seeing posts pop up along the lines of "WE put him where he is today, so he'd best do our bidding."

The problem is that the "we" who have supported Obama from day one span the political spectrum from moderates to progressives, from centrists to far leftists, etc.

It seems that too many who consider themselves to be the more powerful part of the collective honestly believe that Obama is totally owned by their version of "we" - which, in turn, actually means "me".

Welcome to DU - :hi:

[snowbear]

18. I don't care what type of supporters join if they really want to pitch in...

It's the fake (PUMA avatar types) that have no business here..

For many of our DU'ers, they've been with Obama since day one --- for others, it's been a process, but they're getting there

It doesn't matter how lefty, how contrist, how conservative our Obama supporters originate from.

What matters is that they are here for a valid/honest reason and that they care about getting him elected. ~

It's the one proudly displaying his filthy PUMA avatar and claiming it's his private joke (although he's already been outed by his so-called close friend)

Ok. I'm rambling.

I just completely agree with you that the name of the game is UNIFYING!

YES WE CAN -----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY


xoxoxoxoxoxo HUGS !!

[Undercurrent]

22. Yes.

What drew me to Obama was the idea that he could bring disparate folks together. No just appeal to core Democrats, liberals or progressives, but people from across a broader spectrum.


That is exactly what he is doing, and I welcome them all.

:: edited for typos ::

[Jim Lane]

20. Agreed. I felt the same way about Bill Clinton.

I wasn't disappointed in his administration because I didn't have unreasonably high expectations going in. I knew there'd be stuff like welfare "reform" that would infuriate me. I knew that he'd often choose to back down or compromise on something where I would've rather seen him fight. And so it proved.

I never thought Clinton was a true-blue progressive... and I never regretted having voted for him anyway.

If Obama is elected, I'll often disagree with his actions. So what? He'll do an incomparably better job than McSame would. End of story.

And don't get me STARTED on the chowderheads who still think about voting for Nader.

[vaberella]

24. Great Post, OP. K&R

:kick:

[NattPang]

25. I think Obama is doing great

considering the type of media that we have.

He can win, as long as the circular firing squad
don't lose it for the rest of us.

[onetwo]

27. Exactly. nt

[Demit]

28. ...who apparently misunderstood where Obama has been coming from?

I guess we misheard him say he would "support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies." Or maybe he misspoke? Or was misquoted?

You can lecture all you want, but when the candidate does a 180 on something as important as FISA, it's not the people around him who make it a story. It's the man himself. Your disdain is misplaced.

[NattPang]

30. Criticism about Obama's stance on the FISA compromise Bill

It has been stated to no end since June 20th.
That was fine, but the vote has now occurred.

The lectures coming from those disappointed by
Obama's vote, are not longer constructive,
but have become destructive.

Those still criticizing today are officially
now helping elect McCain
and helping gut our constitutional rights
that much deeper.

You are no longer part of the solution
so you are now part of the problem.

You are becoming that which you criticize;
a hinder in the restoration of our rights.
because you can be certain that McCain
will not restore your rights.

[MyNameGoesHere]

34. Hey this little line sounds a lot like

"you are helping the terrorist" line we get from bushco. Fear monger much?

"Those still criticizing today are officially
now helping elect McCain
and helping gut our constitutional rights
that much deeper."

[Demit]

37. No, I am not officially helping McCain. You need to get a better understanding of the word official

What in the world are you people afraid of? That the magic will all come crashing down if Obama is criticized?

If he is a real phenomenon he will withstand the criticism. If he needs the pixie dust of nothing but approval, no matter what he does, then he is not the real thing, and you are propping up a dream.

I'm a 'hinder in the restoration of our rights'? OMG, gag me. OBAMA VOTED FOR THE BILL THAT TOOK AWAY THOSE RIGHTS. If he had voted against it, I might be more inclined to believe he wants to restore them. As it stands, I am very skeptical. And not inclined at the moment to go along with all this 'clap harder' nonsense.

[John Q. Citizen]

56. Let me ask you this. Was Obama's switch on FISA a political mistake? Or do you feel it

wasn't a political mistake?

You have the right to your opinion.

But so do others.

My opinion is that you would help Obama far more by giving up DU from now until the election and spending your time actually helping Obama get elected.

Posting on DU is lots of fun and always makes me feel really good getting my opinion out there but it does absolutely nothing to get Obama elected.

Pretending it does is just denial.

[vaberella]

31. I believe there needs to be a certain number of votes to get the floor to

filibuster. However, the Dems never had that number and were never going to have that number from the get go and that can be seen in the votes to strike the "immunity" clause. Filibuster, then never happens and then we have posters like you who call 180.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/25/congress.surveillance/

He supports filibuster if it got to filibustering, but if the vote count would never meet the required quota well then it won't pass. Please gather your facts.

Because he also stated in the quote your mentioned that he would vote for the bill however fight against the so-called "retro-active immunity" which he did. So explain to me again the 180.

[onetwo]

33. There is no 180.

I've said this in a previous post -- some Americans just don't do "nuance."

[vaberella]

35. Exactly. Added with a strong dose of misinformation and lazy research. ^_^

[truthisfreedom]

36. Support the man. He's a fucking genius.

[Doremus]

40. I support him. Paraphrasing the DLC, what choice do I have?

But make no mistake. FISA is NOT okay and will NEVER be okay.

I will cut some slack now but next year, after we've given him a majority in both houses, we had better see some action from President Obama or I'm finished with him and this party for good.

Corporatism is corporatism. Just because a (D) does it does not make it all right.

[NYC_SKP]

46. It takes one to know one. Some apparently are neither....Good on you!

The arrogance of some people--as if only they are responsible for his success.

Freepers, disgruntled HRC supporters, disruptors, I don't know, but certainly not geniuses these purists.

[iconicgnom]

39. It says a lot that "progressives" has become a dirty word, for many, on DU.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. Sure does. As always the Democratic invitation to progressives remains,

"Shut up! We don't want you, just your votes!"

[Runcible Spoon]

57. no shit! a bunch of people criticized Slate and Mother Jones article as "too leftist"

:wtf:

[skooooo]

58. where??

linky?

[Peacetrain]

41. Iowa here, proud of it, Obama supporter since

200 were considered a huge crowd. I am not late to this dance. Senator Obama took a huge lead in Iowa, precisely because he spoke to "the people". In other words, everyone. No one part of the party is going to get everything they want from an Obama administration. But as the op said, if I can get 80% of my point of view in there, then I am taking it.

For those who post "we put him in there an we will take him out" (paraphrasing).. sorry bucko, but WE put him in there. You were not even in hall taking tickets, when we put him in there.

Does that mean, he is above criticism when he gets off track (as a human being will) of course not. But I will take Senator Obama any day, any 1000 days over the republicans.

[JoFerret]

42. The betrayal

- such as there is one - is the abandonment of some ver some basic democratic positions/ assumptions held over the last few decades. Positions that many have worked hard to make mainstream and take for granted.
It was the same with Clinton.
It'll probably be the same next time around too.
Disappointing?
Of course it's disappointing.
But you are dead right. Obama has been talking this way for ever. Why some people heard a different message is testimony to their desire to see change and their willingness to suspend judgment.

[demokatgurrl]

44. No one "owns" him, but he would not have won

without progressives, or their dollars.

[rg302200]

48. I support Obama no matter what

I will support him on any stanch he takes on a bill, or measure or position because I am sure that he will know more about it then I would. I am a progressive...have been since I started voting when I was 18. I worked as County Coordinator for Sherrod Brown in '06 and I understand what Obama is doing, I know where he is coming from. I would rather have a man who supports me 85% of the time (his voting record on progressive.org) than McCain who is in single digits when it comes to progressive votes. Also would you not rather have a man willing to compromise to get things done than threaten to veto everything if he doesn't like it, like Dubya does?

Obama is going to be great...so lets give him the chance!

[Ian David]

50. Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)

Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3390982&mesg_id=3390982

[Ian David]

52. Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)

Obama Says His Critics Haven’t Been Listening (‘I am someone who is no doubt progressive’)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3390982&mesg_id=3390982

[mix]

59. why progressives like Obama and will vote for him

no he never did speak solely for progressive causes, but he's fought for them enough as a community organizer and senator to make support from this group plausible...yes, he has not fully won over progressives and has angered many for supporting FISA and more neoliberalism

but what makes progressive support for Obama inevitable despite his flaws is his inclusive ethos regarding politics

you should follow the wisdom of your Obama quotation ("We are one people.") and stop dividing his supporters

[onetwo]

60. "Still, your help is needed." - Doesn't sound divisive to me ;) -nt-