Flexibility And Nuanced Seem To Be Code Words For Capitulation & Surrender To Bush!

[Better Believe It]

I'm really getting tired of hearing lame excuses used to justify voting in favor of Bush's legislation and appointments over the past several years.

I'm sure that Republicans are finding it harder to attack Democrats who are Bush enablers with their votes. It's called the "loyal opposition".

And we sure don't want them to criticize Democrats now, do we?

Perhaps if we more farther to the right, let's call it the political center, Bush and the other right-wing Republicans may even have some nice things to say about Democratic bi-partisanship.

Bush had kind things to say about bi-partisanship after the spying legislation was passed and that was wonderful.

See, it works!

I think we can all celebrate this great bi-partisanship victory tonight!

We so happy!

Hip Hip Hooray!

[NattPang]

1. I'm getting tired too

Of those who bring knives to the gunfight
and end up slitting our collective own throats.

Your constitutional rights were bargained away
in 2001, and again in 2003, and again in 2004.

One senator's vote wasn't going to change that,
only give the appearance of fighting for
what was given to the Bush Administration
years ago.

If the principle at this point is not winning
than you will never have your rights restored.

[Ytzak]

3. We weren't asking Obama to change the outcome of the bill...

only to fulfill his oath of office and protect and defend the Constitution.

I know the oath is meaningless to the Republican's in office, and many of the Democrats. Now we know that the oath is meaningless to Obama. If he is willing to allow Bush to violate the rule of law and to violate the Constitution then we must assume that Obama will chose to use the power of the Presidency in the same way.

When something is wrong you have to take a stand against it, even if you loose. The Constitution is worth fighting for.

[NattPang]

5. Obama is fighting the media and the GOP.

So please, it is not close to a fair fight.

Don't tell me about meaningless
because even before today,
the constitution has been raped, pillaged,
and beaten.

Winning this battle symbolically
will not win us the war,
which is the only way
we get our constitutional rights back;
by winning the election.

Everything else is horse shit till then.

[Ytzak]

12. And by his vote Obama's joined the rape.

He pledged to filibuster retroactive immunity. Since he is running for President, it appears he has decided that the right for the President to abuse power and subvert the law must be protected over the Constitution. I can only assume that he is salivating to abuse power.

This is not symbolic, it is betrayal.

If he changed his vote because it wasn't a fair fight and he would loose, that just reveals that, along with being a liar, he is a coward.

When we fail to protect the rights granted us by the Constitution, the Constitution becomes meaningless. Those who betray their oath to protect and defend the Constitution do not have our interest at hear, only their own.

We will not get our Constitution back until we elect people who will defend those rights, no matter what they face, and against any odds. Obama is just another politician willing to betray the trust of the American people for his temporary political gain.

Obama = McCain = Bush = Republican = Democrat

[high density]

14. Many DUers don't understand battles vs wars

That's the ultimate problem for many people here.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. Capitulation and surrender are code words for

I'm not happy, and Obama is my scapegoat.

Sorry, - your opinion is as valid is mine. I happen to think mine has actual merit though.

:evilgrin:

peace~

[Better Believe It]

4. I'm Not Happy With The Bush Governments Attacks On Our Civil Rights And Liberties

What about you?

I don't know what your opinion is on government attacks on our civil liberties and rights.

However, I do support the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

How can any Senator in good conscience turn their back on our Constitution and betray their oath to defend that Constitution by voting in favor of Bush's proposal to expand wireless wiretapping on the general population?

I take such matters seriously.

Obama isn't a scapegoat anymore than the other Democrats and Republicans who voted in support of Bush's domestic spying.

They just did the wrong thing and helped undermine our rights and liberties in this nation.

Do you really believe this is an almost irrelevant matter, perhaps it's just a minor issue which doesn't warrant much attention from progressives and the American people in general?

I sincerely hope not.

And do you actually believe that President Obama will have the FISA law and all other laws attacking our liberties and freedoms repealed once he takes office?

I hope so. But, I haven't read anything yet indicating that President Obama intends to do that.

If you have some hard information in this regard, please link it.

[NattPang]

6. I haven't been "happy" since 2000

That's why symbolic gestures
like casting a losing vote
are no longer enough.

[Hoof Hearted]

10. He didn't HAVE to cast a vote at all. He could have been at a campaign event

But he chose to go out of his way to cast a yea vote for this. I'm sick of our Democrats giving that lame duck bastard giggling in the oval office everything he wants on a silver platter with a cookie. Those who seek to be our leaders should LEAD on this issue, not capitulate.

He had three choices.
1) Lead well and vote no
2) Avoid damage and do as McCain did - find something else to do when the vote was on the floor
3) Cave in, go back on his word, and betray the trust placed in him

[calimary]

13. I know what you mean. Sigh...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6479824

[MarjorieG]

7. Feingold just said tonight he has faith he will. Knows he will revisit this and other abuses.

Mentioned he knows Obama's beliefs and that he's a Constitutional scholar.

I am tired that every election, the people who seem to want change the most don't understand their abilities to lose this. No one person's outrage is worth losing this presidency for us, on their sense of principle, just because there is herd outrage giving legitimacy and talking points they wouldn't otherwise have. Save the Constitution. That's simple. Now amplified by self-serving blogmeisters.

What about the people who are suffering, who need Obama's help? Worth jeopardizing?

[Bluerthanblue]

8. hell no I'm not- but neither is Obama-

and anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

Our 'rights' have been undermined since bush was selected. You want the party of people who accomplished that to slide right into place again? Then get on board with all the others who are pretending to support the Democratic nominee, and find one of any number of "principaled stands" which will justify your helping mccain do what should be simply impossible.

I DO believe this election is SO important that our nation will not survive another republican administration. It's not very likely I'm going to see another presidential election beyond this Nov.- I sure as hell would like to be able to entertain hope that my kids- your kids- everyone, at least have a chance to have a future.-

I believe that Obama understands the stakes far better than many people here on DU. And that he isn't going to be ANYTHING like bush- OR McCain.

What hope does all this outsized outrage give anyone?
It only feeds on itself.

:shrug:
peace~

[Better Believe It]

9. So Explain Why Obama Supported Bush On Warrantless Wiretaps

So he can win the election?

I think he has a better chance of winning if he defends the Constitution rather than undermine it.

[Bluerthanblue]

11. ya well, I'm sorry, but I don't have the faith in

the willingness of the American people to pay close enough attention to the facts to trust this election to that.

Obama's vote would have been symbolic- not significant. And just as the McMedia has tried to destroy and distort his church, his wife, his race, his childhood, his voting record, his schooling, his African heritage- they would have loved the chance to play the "fear-security" factor on him.

If his vote was the critical vote- if it was even 'close'- then yeah, all this 'outrage' would be understandable- but all I'm seeing are people using this FISA vote as another poorly disguised opportunity to bash and undermine the candidate they didn't want to see win-

Tell me this- is what you and the other FISA flamers are doing helping us win the election?????

peace~