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OMFG!!! * was awarded NO Texas National Guard Medals!!!

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:15 PM
Original message
OMFG!!! * was awarded NO Texas National Guard Medals!!!
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 02:16 PM by Walt Starr
There are two medals awarded to members of the Texas National Guard basically for showing up:



Texas Govt Code 431.134 Para 1
Texas Faithful Service Medal

The Texas Faithful Service Medal shall be awarded to a member of the state military forces who has completed five years of honorable service during which the person has shown fidelity to duty, efficient service, and great loyalty to the state.

and



Texas Govt Code 431.134 Para 5
Texas State Guard Service Medal

The Texas State Guard Service Medal, shall be awarded to a person completing three consecutive years of honorable service in the Texas State Guard during which the person has shown fidelity to duty, efficient service, and great loyalty to the state.

According to his ANG22 (The Air National Guard discharge papers), * Received *NO* Texas National Guard Medals. This means he did not faithfully execute his duty for five years in the TANG. He also did not even faithfully execute his duty for *three* years in the TANG. This supports the AWOL charges.

Furthermore, in the following photograph he wears two Air Force ribbons, Air Force Outstanding Unit Award, and the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon :



Neither of which show up on this line of his ARG22:



They *may* be listed in Bush's DD214, however, he REFUSES TO RELEASE HIS DD214 which everybody with military experience knows could reveal precisely under what circumstances Bush was released from service under. Even an "honorable discharge" could be shown to be questionable given the codes contained in a DD214.

Assuming Bush was wearing authorized awards, here is a comparison of Kerry and Bush's awards records:

Kerry

Kerry' s




Dubya*



I have verified the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award and Air Force Small Arms Expert Marksmanship ribbon only via a photograph of George W. Bush. Other Air Force awards can only be verified if Bush releases his DD214.

Top to bottom, left to right as you look at them

Kerry:

Silver Star (Verified via DD214)
Bronze Star (Should have Bronze Combat "V" Device, Verified via DD214)
Purple Heart (Should have two Gold Star devices for subsequent awards, Verified via DD214)
Combat Action Ribbon (Verified via DD214)
Presidential Unit Citation (Verified via DD215, worn above left pocket per Navy regs)
Navy Unit Commendation (Verified via DD215)
National Defense Service Medal (Verified via DD214)
Vietnam Service Medal(Verified via DD214, w/four bronze star devices verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation (Verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation (Verified via DD215)
Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal (Verified via DD215)

Dubya:

Air Force Outstanding Unit Award (verified via photograph only)
Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon (verified via photograph only)

Comparing in order of precedence, The Air Force Outstanding Unit Award falls below Kerry's Navy Unit Commendation and above his National Defense Service Medal. The Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon falls between Kerry's Vietnam Service Medal and his Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation.

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A_Possum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Reporter should ask him to display his medals
That way you don't need the record, and he has to say he "lost" them.
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
91. Here is George's medals
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 12:22 PM by vetwife
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
120. (Insert of "medals" image for broken original image link)
(grabbed from Walt's post further down in the thread)

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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you
Now we know. How do we get this out to the regular folk?


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Send to Kerry Campaign NOW!!
GREAT FIND!!
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't the DD214 available via the FOIA?
I thought several newspapers requested W's records under the FOIA. Wouldn't this DD214 have been among them?
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artfan Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The DD214
Is in many the most important paper in a person's military record. When my hubby retired he was told to file a copy with a local courthouse so that he would be able to get an 'official' copy if he ever needed it quickly because it can take months to get one from the federal gvt.

Both bush and Kerry need to release this document so the American people can compare.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Kerry *HAS* released *ALL* of his military records
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_reco...

That was how I was able to put together Kerry's fruit salad.

I've been poking about since yesterday trying to put together *'s awards. I *ASSUMED* he got the Texas Air National Guard medals for showing up, until I went over his ARG22 thoroughly and discovered HE DID NOT RECEIVE TANG MEDALS AWARDED FOR SHWING UP!
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. No *automatic* promotion to Captain either
that was a gimme for completing Guard service in those days. EVERYONE got out with it---why's Chimpo a 1st Lt??????? A Congressman's son with "honorable" service and NO terminal captaincy? hmmmmm


there's another little clue.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. *edit* - replied to wrong post
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 06:19 PM by Stephanie
.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
101. why does the media keep saying Kerry hasn't released all his records
Does anyone know what the media expects Kerry to still release regarding his war records? Even the Washinton Post is still saying they haven't gotten all the records and can't completely clarify the incidents in Vietnam as a result.
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artfan Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. You NEED to send a copy of this to
the media local and national and to anyone else you can think of. If it is OK with you I would like to copy it and 'forget' it the next time I go to the base.

great job
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. I'm hoping other DUers can help spread this for me
I'm doing more research on the records right now.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nice work, Walt!
That's homepage material.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. It took a lot of digging
and I'm still not sure exactly what awards Bush may or may not have had. All I can conclude without a DD214 or DD215 is that Bush was wearing awards in that photograph that he did not earn.

And even with a DD214, it's still questionable because all military awards are now questionable. After all, Kerry's are listed in his DD214, but the Smear Boat Liars for Bush want to question them anyway!
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
78. Thank you!!!!!
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Do you think Bush lied about the two bars he's wearing? After all
as I remember, all you had to do was go the the PX and buy those things. On one ever questioned you.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. Come on John Kerry
Make the Dim-son BRING IT ON :bounce:

Nice going Walt :thumbsup:
Saved and Nominated.
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. That is priceless. n/t
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here are some pics with the right devices:

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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. Great detective work Walt!
But my god, you could have warned us about the disturbing image. Excuse me now while I go wash my eyes out with soap.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Sorry about that
It was the only picture I could find with awards.

:shrug:
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. He did have somewhat of an eyebrow problem
President Monobrow.
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. I was joking about the warning...
I wouldn't want you to think I was criticizing you. :hi:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I know, I was kidding back!
:silly:
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
97. that in itself is interesting, isn't it ...
I don't recall seeing him wearing them when meeting veterans, even when he's wearing the hat ...
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fishface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not true...
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 03:07 PM by fishface
He got the Obnoxious Drunk with Oak Cluster

(made ya look hehehe)
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Does that come with a V device?
;)
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. No, It Comes with V.S.O.P. Device
And crossed bottles.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. ***spew***
There went some wine onto the keyboard! V.S.O.P! Too funny!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent.
Send to PeteNYC.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. did he earn those medals, or not??
The marksman medal and the other one.

It's time to send up a hue and cry about this.

The medals Bush is wearing in the photo are not listed on the service records he supplied to the media.

The medals Bush is wearing in the photo are not listed on the service records he supplied to the media.

The medals Bush is wearing in the photo are not listed on the service records he supplied to the media.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. I wonder if he's wearing his DADDY'S medals???????
Wouldn't that be JUST like him?
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Bush Snr. has a Distinguished Flying Cross and 3 Air medals
I couldn't find any others.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
93. What about the medals bush I received for...
deserting his plane and leaving his crew behind?
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charlie105 Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Beautiful. Now if this can be vetted, mainstream media, here
we come!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. Maybe those ribbons are cheerleading awards he won in high school.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. BRAVO WALT!!
OMG...YOU ROCK!!

Watch out Lying Liars -- your gig is up!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. ARE THOSE MEDALS HE'S WEARING THAT HE WASN'T AWARDED????
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 04:00 PM by Beetwasher
Who's are they? I think the public deserves to know!!! I don't think we can assume that they were authorized!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Didn't an officer commit suicide when they found he wore unearned medals?
.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
84. Adm. Jeremy M. Boorda
The admiral was the first enlisted man to rise to become top salt.

Jeremy Michael Boorda
Admiral, United States Navy
Chief of Naval Operations


From a comtemporary news report:

The nation's top Navy officer, distraught after some of his military awards were called into question, died Thursday, May 16, 1996, from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Adm. Jeremy Boorda was to have met about the time of the shooting with the Washington bureau chief of Newsweek magazine, which was working on a story concerning his medals. Administration officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said there was no evidence the shooting was accidental and no suspicion of foul play. Two notes were found at Boorda's residence; they were sealed by investigating police.

At the White House, President Clinton praised Boorda, the first enlisted sailor in the history of the Navy to rise to its top position, as a man of ''extraordinary energy, dedication and good humor.''

Navy Secretary John Dalton said he had met with Boorda a day earlier. ''He was in great spirits,'' Dalton said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/borda.htm
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. *'s ARG22
Look at the bottom, 5 years 0 months, 28 days, yet no award of the Texas Faithful Service Medal, not even the TSG Service Medal awarded for three years, which would coincide with an AWOL period:




No mention of the two awards he is wearing in the picture.

This begs the question, did * EARN the ribbons he is wearing in the photograph? We have no documentation to verify it!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I'm kinda confused
So the TAFMS and TAFCS listed on the form are the "just showing up" awards, but he's not wearing them in the photo?

And the photo shows him wearing things that aren't on the form?

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Nope, I had to dig on that. Those are *NOT* Awards
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 06:01 PM by Walt Starr
TAFMS = TOTAL ACTIVE FEDERAL MILITARY SERVICE

TAFCS = TOTAL ACTIVE FEDERAL COMMISSION SERVICE

There is *NOTHINT* listed from either service. According to his ARG22, George W. Bush received NO AWARDS. That means no Texas Guard Medals for just showing up for three and five years.

Now, the DD214 is the final listing and since both awards he is wearing are Air Force awards and not Guard awards, they *COULD* be listed on his DD214, BUT HE WILL NOT RELEASE HIS DD214!!!
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kurtyboy Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
74. I gotta go check my separation papers
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 01:35 AM by kurtyboy
I don't think the state awards show up at all on the DD-214, in fact, I don't know if I posess ANY record of my state awards (marksman, commendations, etc...)

I was a VERY decorated air guardsman in the early eighties, earning more than three full rows of ribbons in less than six years, all without a war.

I am not saying GW Bush was medal-less---only that the official records may not be the best place to start investigating a person's valor-----

Trust me, I believe that * got a free ride in the Guard and He dishonors all of us who ACTUALLY served--but we need REAL evidence to fight this fight.

On Edit---------I was part of two AF UNIT citations in the eighties--and I actually participated in neither--I was just a member when they were awarded. Nonetheless, I was required to wear them since I was an active member when the awared period occured. This could explain half of the ribbons in Bush's photo.......
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. ANG22 IS the National Guard Discharge
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 01:54 AM by Walt Starr
NG equivalent of a DD214. If he had Guard awards, they would be on this document.

No guard awards in any document Bush released. Not one.

Read post 67. I did an exhaustive search for ANY indication that ANY unit * was in was awarded the AFOUA while * was assigned to it. NONE!

There is one, and only one, record of the SAEMR in an AF11 document. There's an "alleged" military biography that was released by the Bush asdministration this year. It is NOT an offical military document. It lists an NDSM and an SAEMR as the offical awards, but NO AFOUA.

The only conclusion that can be made is * wore a ribbon he was not authorized to wear.

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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
28. WOW
Just nominated for homepage...GREAT FIND!!
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. Kicked and nominated. Good show, Walt!
:thumbsup: :hug:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. OMFG!!! HE *WAS* WEARING UNEARNED RIBBONS!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 06:18 PM by Walt Starr
As of May 16, 1971, *'s AF11 lists NO MILITARY DECORATIONS OR AWARDS!!!!!

It's in the following packet released by his campaign in 2000:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/10-5_2000_Personn...
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Walt, You Kick Some SERIOUS ASS BUD!
This is phenomenal! Spread it FAR AND WIDE!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Thanks, Beetwasher, I'm still scouring the internet
for more information.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Same AF11 form listing NO DECORATIONS OR AWARDS
From May 16, 1971 was in this packet released by the white house in 2004:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-3_2004_Personn...

It seems Bush has been releasing and re-releasing the same records over and over again, but still no DD214!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Clearer copy of AF11, he earned the SAEMR, but NOT the AFOUA
Only *ONE* can be verified. He earned the Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon. I now concede it, unlees you take into account that even the records are now to be taken into doubt under the standard set by the Smear Boat Liars for Bush.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-4_2004_Personn...

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
36. My favorite old thread, in which EVERY DU VETERAN confirms
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 06:20 PM by Stephanie


that they know EXACTLY where to find their DD214:

BOSSHOG - A Question for my Fellow Veterans
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
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GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
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This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. KICK KICK KICK We Love You Walt!
Wow...no wonder they are after Kerry's military record, huh?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
41. Okay, it now gets officially WEIRD!
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 06:37 PM by Walt Starr
In a packet released in 2004, there is a "military biography" which lists the following two awards:

Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon
National Defense Service Medal

It DOES NOT list the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award.

* would have been eligible for the National Defense Service Medal *ONLY* if he had served ACTIVE DUTY during his enlistment. Bush IS NOT WEARING the NDSM in the above photograph.

This "military biography" is NOT an offical military document and has no Air Force, National Guard, or Department of Defense designation. It lists his dates of service as 27 MAY 1968 to 21 November 1974, thus was *CLEARLY* written after his seperation. It's inclusion in the following packet of personnel information remains a mystery:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-1_2004_Personn...

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. WEIRDER YET, AF form 1712 dated May 10, 1973 shows NO AWARDS!
It's in this packet released this year by the White House:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-5_2004_Personn...

Clearly, with the discrepancies I've uncoverd about Bush's military awards, he MUST release his DD214 to verify he wore ribbons he earned.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. How Can He Be Wearing USAF Awards
if he was not in the Air Force? Is that possible?

So let me get this straigh:

He's wearing 2 Air Force Medals in the pic, none of which there's a record of him receiving.

There's no OFFICIAL record of him receiving anything.

An unofficial bio lists two awards but they are NOT the awards being worn.

Is this correct?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Air force National Guard members are eligible for Air Force awards
Unfortunately, the only record of any award I can find is in an obscure AF11 form and only for the SAEMR. This award is NOT listed on his Air National Guard seperation document, the ANG22. The AFOUA (which he wears in that photograph) is listed nowhere. There is a "military biography" that is in no way an offical document lists a NDSM and a SAEMR, but Bush is wearing the AFOUA and not the NDSM. Also, the NDSM requires that he be Active Duty in order for him to be eligible, he was a Guardsman and his unit was never activated during his enlistment period. If anything, the NDSM listing is damning as he would have been considered Active Duty while transferred to the Denver organization as shown in some documents.

IIRC, the AFOUA is the ribbon a general ended up committing suicide over when it was discovered he was not eligible to wear the award.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. You are sooooo way ahead of me
It'll take me awhile to understand it. But just wanted to be sure you've seen this site, in case it helps:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I've seen all of those documents on other sites
and then some.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. OK, figured you had
but wanted to make sure. :)
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
80. Found the criteria for the NDSM
And Bush was definitely INELIGIBLE for the NDSM:

http://honours.homestead.com/usndsm.html

General :
Qualifying Periods :
27June 1950 to 27 July 1954 - The Korean War.
1 January 1961 to 14 Aug 1974 - The Vietnam War
2 August 1990 to 30 November 1995 - The Gulf War.
1 May 2002 to (to be decided) - The Global War on Terrorism
Subsequent Awards :
If a service member earned the medal during one of the first two periods and who again
became entitled to the medal will wear a bronze star on the ribbon to denote the second
award of the medal.
Criteria :
a The medal is awarded for honorurable, active, service for any period during the abovenamed
qualifying periods
b For the purpose of this award, the following persons shall not be considered as performing
active service:
1 Army National Guard and US Army Reserve forces personnel on short tours of duty to
fulfill training obligations under an inactive duty training programme.
2 Any service member on temporary duty or tempoaray active duty to serve on boards,
courts, commissions, and like organisations.
3 Any service member on active duty for the sole purpose of undergoing a physical examination

c In addition to the conditions listed in b. above, Executive Order 12776 extended the award of
the NDSM to all members of the Army National Guard and the US Army Reserve who were
part of the selected Reservein good standing during the period 2 August 1990 to 30 November
1995. During this period, soldiers in the following catagories will not be considered eliglble
1 Any soldier of the inividual ready reserve, Inactive National Guard, or the standby or
retired Reserve whose active duty service was for the sole purpose of undergoing a
physical \examination.
2 Any soldier of the Individual Ready Reserve, Inactive National Guard, or the standy or
retired reserve whose active duty service was for training only, or to serve on Boards, Courts, Commissions and like orgasnisations.
d Any Member of the Army National Guard or US Army Reserves who after 31 December 1960,
becomes eligible for the award of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or the Vietnam
Servce Medal, Is also eligible for the award of the NDSM. The NDSM may awarded to
members of the Reserve Component who are ordered to Federal active duty regardless of the
duration (except for catagories listed in 'b' above.


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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
46. I DARE you to post this on the Swiftnuts message board
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 07:02 PM by RatTerrier
Awesome research!

YOU DA MAN!!!

:toast:
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cidliz2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
54. I hope that you don't mind
but I forwarded this to Keith Obermann on MSNBC, he has been one of the best on the news shows and I hope that he picks this up and runs with it!

Thanks for the GREAT information!

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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. self-delete
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 08:51 PM by NightOwwl
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Um, ........................................See post #26 please
:headbang: :dem:
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NightOwwl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Sorry about that. I deleted my post. n/t
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. You're a doll
:hug: Thanks :pals:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
57. Great Stuff, Walt Starr!
You da man! :thumbsup: :hi:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
59. He probably borrowed someone else's jacket.
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 08:19 PM by cat_girl25
What a liar!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
60. Kick
:kick: for a great investigative job!!!
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
64. Bush = Slacker
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
65. Actually he tossed them over the fence at the "Up With People" concert...
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 09:02 PM by farmbo
...at the 1972 Republican National Convention. During the excitement over the arrival of BeBe Rabozo's limousine.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
66. Outstanding Research, Excellent Reporting
You're a hero, Walt Starr. Thanks.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
67. Okay, after much research, some conclusions
Edited on Sat Aug-21-04 10:42 PM by Walt Starr
One obscure AF document, an AF11 dated May 16, 1971, shows Bush was awarded the SAEMR.

A "military biography" released by the Bush administration this year lists a NDSM and a SAEMR as awards. There is no mention of the AFOUA and this alleged "military biography" was prepared after Bush was discharged as it includes his dates of service. This is not an official document.

There is no record of Bush being awarded the Texas National Guard service medals listed above. I am unsure as to when exactly Texas began the awarding of the Texas State Guard Service Medal, however, apparently the Texas Faithful Service Award has been awarded since before World War II.

I cannot find any document anywhere that shows Bush was awarded the AFOUA he is wearing in the picture. I cannot find any biography of any person to have served with Bush at the same time who was awarded the AFOUA. I cannot find any record of any unit in which Bush served that was awarded the AFOUA while Bush served. I have found a second hand source which claims the unit Bush would join in 1968 was awarded the AFOUA in 1966. Bush would not be eligible to wear this award, however, as he was not a member of the Unit during the specified time. I cannot, however, confirm the veracity of this claim about the unit award in 1966, although the point is moot as Bush was not a member at the time.

Final conclusion, Bush wore an award he was not entitled to wear in the picture above. This can be proven to be a false conclusion, but only by providing the DD214 that would clear this up.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Great Job, Walt..
Kick back up to the top.

Sid
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Question about uncovering the DD214
I was just talking to my husband about this -- he's a Vietnam-era Navy vet. Like everybody else here, he says he knows where his DD214 is, and thinks anybody would know where theirs was, too.

Given the benefits veterans of that era were entitled to, and the fact that the DD214 was required in order to get them, wouldn't even a wealthy person have taken advantage of this -- say, for example, in applying to Harvard Business School, for tuition reimbursement? Or getting a business loan? Or getting a mortgage? Why leave money you're entitled to on the table?

If so, there are copies out there, in dusty files of the school or the bank... I don't know how they'd be uncovered, but hubby suggests if somebody like George Soros offered a million bucks for a copy, clerks everywhere would start searching the files!

What do you think?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Oh I guarantee you, it's out there somewhere
And wearing an award he was not entitled to may be enough to get some enterprising young reporter to dig up a copy!

But given ALL of the documentation released, George W. Bush was photographed wearing an award he is not entitled to.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #71
76. Someone
needs to ask him about this little "discrepancy." :evilgrin:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #69
113. Yes, if you'd go to the base to get a couple of fillings in your teeth,

I'd bet you'd grab any $$$ you could!

Remember, John Kerry has shrapnel from Nam in his leg. . .

and George W.Bush has fillings from Bama in his teeth. What a Rambo!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
70. Walt, you did it again., I SALUTE YOU,
sending fish and poi, wine and caviar, smoked salmon and Tony Roma Ribs, beer and cheer....You iz da MAN.

:kick:
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
72. Would W get DD214 or NGB22?
I've seen some claims by alleged ex-NG that you didn't get a DD214 for Vietnam-era Nat'l Guard service, that it's covered by the NGB22 instead. But I don't know for sure.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Well, he had an ANG22, see post 23
The ANG22 lists ABSOLUTELY NO AWARDS!!!
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muchacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
77. wow
nice work
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
79. OMG! **I** was awarded more medals than W (zero for the shrubster)
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
81. This is great, Walt. What can we do to make sure it doesn't die?
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 08:52 AM by Karmadillo
n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Get the information to the media!
I'll work on a compiled verion of everything today!
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
83. This is really great
Would be great if this info could be posted on its own website so that we could refer people to it.
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Brister2 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
85. Way to go guys!
Edited on Sun Aug-22-04 10:53 AM by Brister2
I've been vigorously defending Kerry on the ultra conservative military.com forums (I'm a vet) and you guys just made a fool of me!!!!!!!!

PLEASE, PLEASE take the time to check out your facts! I took this post and AWOLbush's word and got burned.

The ANG does NOT issue DD-214's, they issue 22's, which is what is in Bush's records.

It really doesn't do the fight any good at all when we get things wrong.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. Then Bush wore awards he did not earn
because he has no listing of the AFOUA in any documentation anywehere.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
86. Great Work, unfortunately the mainstream press could care less.
bush* single-handedly won the vietnam war.
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Brister2 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
87. Whoa...
Slow down people. I've been around the Air Force 24 years and scanning through this thread there's a fair bit of stuff off the mark.

It doesn't do the cause any good unless we get it right.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. Put it up
Present what's wrong with the following:

FACT: Bush was wearing an AFOUA and SAEMR in the above photograph.
FACT: Bush was a National Guardsman for Five years zero months and 28 days according to his ARG22.
FACT: Bush's ARG22 lists NO medals or awards.
FACT: IF Bush had faithfully executed his oligation under his enlistment in the Texas Air National Guard for the term of his enlistment, he would have qualified for the Texas Faithful Service Medal.
FACT: A Form AF11 dated May 16, 1971 lists ONLY the SAEMR as an award received by George W. Bush.
FACT: Form AF 1712 dated May 10, 1973 lists NO Awards.
FACT: A "military biography" of dubious origin released by the White House contains his enlisment dates, the units he was attached to, and lists the NDSM and SAEMR as his awards, but NOT the AFOUA.
FACT: No document provided by the Bush team lists the AFOUA as one of his awards, by comparison both the DD214 and DD215 provided by John Kerry lists multiple Unit awards.
FACT: To date, no document has been presented to demonstrate Bush earned the AFOUA he was wearing in the picture above.
FACT: No document has been presented that any unit Bush served in was awarded the AFOUA during the period of time in which Bush served.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
88. Don't know about medals, but Poppy pinned him


and the accompanying article tells how he was admitted into the Guard despite his lousy driving record.


Bush's driving records disclosed
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-02-12-bush...
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
92. Here's Kerry's salad bowl
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
94. Need clarification...
Texas Govt Code 431.134 Para 1 and Texas Govt Code 431.134 Para 5

Was that language in the Texas Code in existence at the time of gw*s discharge?

It should indicate when the code was modified/revised if at all. If it was revised after his discharge then the language at the time of the discharge needs to be used. Hopefully, it was the same or similar that he everyone would had received a similar medal.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. That's not even the important issue, wearing an unauthorized ribbon is
Bush wore the AFOUA, but no document shows he was eligible to wear the AFOUA, not even the "military biography" bushco wrote for him!
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Good point. Where's WestLaw when you need it?
n/t
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
95. kick
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
99. Why Has Dumya's Picture Disappeared?
All I get is the little red x where the photo ought to be. I know I saw the picture last night. Did the source website pull the picture down?

I hope somebody has, or can get a copy before it gets doctored. :scared:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. The site I found it at has stopped allowing it to be linked to
I saved it to another site, though:

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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Excellent!
And, may I say with all due respect, as one data analyst to another:

You put the anal in analyst!

Good Job! :toast:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. Thanks for the kind words
but it does no good if nobody in the mainstream media picks it up.

Hopefully the emails that have gone out will have some results.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
100. Kick
n/t
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Keirsey Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #100
105. I saved it
and uploaded it

http://tinypic.com/34f2c

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RadiDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
102. Kick ! Anybody save the pic of Sasquatch the Deserter ?
I hope so
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
104. Kicking a great post...
thanks Walt!
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
106. Kick!
n/t
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
109. Kick, and suggestion
Walt Starr, I think you've uncovered some info that's really useful. Not only is it possible that there are problems with Bush's medals, at the very least your info could be used to put pressure on Bush to release more military details. Further, some of the questions you raise really point to the heart of the matter: That Bush did not serve his country while others were dying for it in Vietnam.

I gather a few of the posts have led you to raise some new questions and possibly drop some. Perhaps here or in a new thread, you could update the status of your findings. I think your post and this thread is the most newsworthy thing I've seen on DU in a very long time, and your timing couldn't be better.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. I've made sort of a report
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
110. kick
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No Mandate Here. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
111. One more time... Great Find! <nt>
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #111
114. Has this all been verified....
if yes, it should be sent to Chris Matthews...

:kick:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #114
116. I have verified that Bush wore a ribbon he did not earn!
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timerigger Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #116
119. more questions...
posted by "bushsux" over at dailyKos


there is a DIFFERENCE between the Texas STATE Guard, and the
Texas NATIONAL Guard.  Believe it or not, Texas actually does
have its own "army" separate and distinct from the
Texas National Guard.  The failure of Bush to be get
ribbons/medals that were awarded to members of the Texas STATE
guard (i.e. the Texas Faithful Service Medal and the Texas
State Guard Service Medal) is of no consequence.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
115. Great work, Walt!
Any idea when W's picture was taken? That would be an interesting fact to know.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. I've been researching it, no date as of yet...
Developing....
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. there's new info in the other thread, folks
This story is getting huge, considering the fact that George's grandfather lied about his WW1 medals, too.

I've been tipping reporters for half an hour now. Daily Kos has linked to DU.

Let's create the whirlwind for this that we did for Ken Cordier.

Spread out. Post the link to Walt's other thread everywhere you can.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-23-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
121. Kick Again.
:kick:
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