"McCain backhanded her"

[ConsAreLiars]

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977250105

This testimony was also broadcast on the 6/19/08 broadcast of I.N.N. on FSTV on DishTV ch 9415.

During the November 1992 Hearings of the Senate Select Committee on POW-MIA Affairs, my sister, Dolores Alfond, Chairperson for the National Alliance of Families for the Return of America's Missing Servicemen and Women was testifying. In the course of her testimony, Senator McCain burst into the hearings, interrupted Dolores' testimony--vehemently chastising her, and just as quickly he left the proceedings--leaving my sister in tears! WHY WOULD JOHN MC CAIN TREAT AN MIA FAMILY MEMBER IN THIS MANNER?

During June 1996 at the National Alliance of Families Annual Conference in Washington, DC, a group of approximately two-dozen people went to the Senate Building hoping to meet with McCain about the Missing Service Personnel Act of 1996. He refused to meet or to even schedule a meeting while the family conference was in session. As we were contemplating our next move, the Senator and a young, attractive female aide came from his office in our direction. Our spokesperson, John Parsels, a former POW of Vietnam, stepped toward McCain, asking if he would talk with us. McCain denied any knowledge of the Act and brushed past Parsels. As he approached the niece of Charles Duke, Jr. (missing civilian, 05-30-70, South Vietnam), she stepped forward to speak and McCain backhanded her, causing her to hit the wall.
As McCain and the aide continued walking, I then saw Jane Duke Gaylor, mother of Charles Duke Jr., who was in her mid-80's and wheelchair bound, stretch her arms toward McCain saying, "Please talk with us." "Please talk with us." McCain raised his left arm ready to strike her, controlled himself, and pushed the wheelchair away from him. McCain and the aide continued down the hall and I saw Carol Hrdlicka (wife of Capt David L. Hrdlicka, USAF, POW, 05-18-65, Laos), John Parsels, and others follow McCain. The remainder of us looked at each other in total shock as to what we witnessed in those few minutes. It was later learned that Jane Duke Gaylor and her niece had gone to the Senate Police to file a complaint--the police refused to help them. John McCain is personally and single handily responsible for gutting the Missing Service Personnel Act of 1996. WHY? WHY DOES MC CAIN TREAT THE POW-MIA FAMILIES IN THIS MANNER?

(edit to note that this was on Free Speech TV on Dish TV -- if you don't have it you are missing a lot that is informative.)

[Tigress DEM]

1. Good question. K & R

KICK

[FrenchieCat]

2. Yuk! Now that's scary!

Ms. Harriet "2nd class citizen" Christian better watch out! :scared:

[autorank]

3. What a Rogues Gallery k*r

[ConsAreLiars]

4. Yeah, it's the backstory.

Schmoozes well with the rich and/or powerful, like the money men, an heiress, and the media, but totally PTSD when the real world is encountered. If anyone wants to vote for for someone even more deranged and fucked up than The Ultimately Deranged Chimpanzee (who would have ever thought that might be imaginable), well, here's a real contender.

(edit trivial typo)

[autorank]

5. This is why there was such a tussle for the nomination.

McCain will implode or the story/ stories like this will get out and spread. He's finished before
things get started. Therefore, if you're his Democratic opponent, you're going to win, almost by
default.

So many opportunities for a melt down.

The MIA issue is huge, however. I wonder if Perot is going to do something given that this is one
of his favorite issues.

[beachmom]

27. You do know that you are furthering Karl Rove's attack on McCain from 2000

with this line of attack? Please provide evidence that McCain has PTSD. We do know that he has a temper, but heck, so did Bill Clinton.

You guys do know that the org called "Vietnam veterans against John Kerry" is now called "Vietnam veterans against John McCain", right? I mean, a lot of shady groups preyed on the families of POW/MIAs to cash in on their grief. I think the work done on the POW/MIA committee was excellent, and the right thing to do.

[genna]

35. Do you have a place to start researching for these specific people's allegations?

I'm not talking about PTSD.

I'm talking about the specific allegations by the same named people above that correspond to the same people in the Karl Rove spots taking John Kerry apart.


If there is double dealing going on and there are specific factual differences, then these people need to be held up in court as making libelous or slanderous allegations. It is one thing to be wrong in opinion but it is another to be wrong in fact.

[anonymous171]

6. Holy shit! K&R

:kick:

[DangerousRhythm]

7. Wow, what the hell!

"...she stepped forward to speak and McCain backhanded her, causing her to hit the wall."

Someone ought to get this to a cable news network. I suggest someone at MSNBC as it seems more likely they'd cover this than say, CNN. This is crazy! I wonder if she'd come forward with this story on say... Countdown? I watched the videos on Youtube of McCain and Ms. Alfond and those were bad enough.

[Jackpine Radical]

87. That kind of aggressive bullshit is not part of PTSD.

I can well imagine that McCain has PTSD, but this is something else. If you must have a clinical name for it, call it Intermittent Explosive Disorder.

[orleans]

91. i call it battery and he should have fucking been ARRESTED! n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

92. Yup.

But that never happens to the ones with $$ or power.

[Epiphany4z]

8. I found this on the same site

according to Mrs.Carol Hrdlicka, when POW/MIA family members confronted Sen. John McCain in the halls of Congress after the conclusion of the Committee's Report, he shoved the wheelchair of handicapped POW mother Jane Gaylord out of his way knocking it into her niece who was behind the chair attending to her aunt and she was pushed up against a wall.


http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977249267

I don't know a the backhand bit seems to not ring true.its just to out there
..
maybe its a bit of an
exaggeration. The letter looks in part to be based on this other article and ramped up a bit ...or maybe the other article ramped down...but backhanding someone just does not ring true to me...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. This would have more credibility...

...if it didn't go off on a tangent about the Keating Five and his wife's drug theft issues.

[roguevalley]

33. he's a complete bastard and he's earned every hurt he has. he

will be crushed in this next election and it will be good. he won't be fun to be around for the rest of his life after that but its Cindy's punishment for being a rednecked hypocrite and buffoon.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

99. What does any of that have to do with this?

As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for him to do what has been alleged, considering his range of motion.

I'm all for going after him on legitimate things, but this smacks of the Larry Sinclair bullshit about Obama.

[hokies4ever]

10. Any theories as to why we haven't seen McCain's temper on the campaign trail

I find it quite odd.

[fasttense]

11. I think they have him on drugs to keep his anger/PTSD issues

muted.

It is interesting that he seems most prone to lash out at women.

[hokies4ever]

12. Funny, but I don't think that's the case

his medical reports would have showed it. I think he's making a conscious effort to control his anger. Hopefully Obama finds ways to get under his skin. God what I wouldn't pay to have McCain lunge at Obama during a national debate. :rofl:

[madaboutharry]

14. I have had the same thought, as much as I

am a little uncomfortable even thinking it. But I have thought what a great moment it would be if Obama said something that caused McCain to implode right on live television.

[hokies4ever]

15. I think it might happen

McCain has proven to have thin skin on certain issues. Obama ought to accuse McCain of not taking care of veterans and that ought to do it.

[blondeatlast]

20. Local word is immigration will push his buttons. He cursed at two other

Republican senators recently during a caucus on the issue. Here's video of a Phoenix news report from the local Fox affiliate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCAqm286eAM

[beachmom]

28. Well, actually he is more with liberals on immigration than the Right.

You'd think people here would commend him for speaking up on behalf of immigrants. What a bizarre thread this is.

And, obviously, I think McCain would be a terrible president and Obama would be a great president. But let's win on that, not smears against McCain. Unless I see video, this story is suspect.

[Major Hogwash]

47. McCain is from Arizona, so his fake position on immigration is just that - fake.

It makes for a good story, but McCain knows that there are enough Republicans in Congress today to thwart any attempt to pass any meaningful legislation on immigration.

And this story is true, yet there is no video.

This story about McCain was first written about shortly after it happened on a veteran's forum for missing MIAs and POWs from the Vietnam war.

[beachmom]

55. I am sorry but this is the SAME CROWD that smeared John Kerry

You have got to be kidding if you are going to lend credence to them now. This is not the SBVT but the guy who sells things on the Mall near the Vietnam Wall. He went after McCain especially because McCain wanted to normalize relations with Vietnam. Then in '04 they went full out after John Kerry. Same group.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org/

The guy's name is Ted Sampley

There is anti-McCain stuff on the anti-Kerry site.

SURPRISE!!! Same exact group, different senator:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

[Major Hogwash]

61. No, it's not.

You don't have clue 1 to what you are talking about.

SURPRISE!

[beachmom]

83. I gave links, now it's your turn. It is a fact that McCain was given an incredibly

rough time for doing what he felt was right. It is also a fact that Kerry, who is a far calmer individual, chaired the special committee to settle the POW/MIA situation in Vietnam.

So I would like to know what it is that I have wrong here. That McCain was intentionally and maliciously attacked for this. I would like to know why I should believe this story when I know about the false Newsweek story and the despicable things Sampley did. They CALLED McCain a Manchurian Candidate.

So please enlighten me, instead of saying "I have no clue" while explaining nothing.

[Major Hogwash]

95. You didn't prove shit. These aren't the same people no matter how many times you claim they are.

You can go back to whining about DU'ers not being reverant enough to dead news reporters now.

[beachmom]

100. I have given you what I know of the history of the POW/MIA committee

and how John McCain was called a Manchurian candidate. THEREFORE, I am highly doubtful of these stories, unless there is more corroboration. Was it covered in the Wash. Post or elsewhere? You have provided no links, and I have.

If you think the Swiftboat attacks on John Kerry were dishonorable, then you should be damned sure about attacks on McCain that they are TRUE before just throwing them on a Democratic site. NO CARE has been taken here, and I will continue to bring up the fact that McCain was unfairly targeted during that time, and I find a story saying he hit a woman and tried to hit an elderly woman in a wheel chair EXPLOSIVE and EXTRAORDINARY. THEREFORE, corroborating proof should be provided before everyone STUPIDLY accepts it as the truth.

[TheWraith]

67. I'd be a little surprised if McCain doesn't blow up at some point.

The man's got a short fuse, and Obama's just the right kind of unflappable cool that would probably piss McCain off. Hell, if you watch his speeches McCain's barely keeping himself together in front of a friendly audience, being pitched softball questions.

[caledesi]

115. I agree! NT

[bunny planet]

24. All he has to do apparently is suggest Grandpa's hair is getting a little thin on top.

That should get it started.

[Politicalboi]

65. Yes that should do it

But instead of the C word it would be the N word.

:nuke:

[EOTE]

66. Definitely a conscious effort.

I know his mannerisms, I've definitely seen them before. In people who are normally assholes and tyrants, when they want to appear calm, they often take it way overboard. That's why the McCain we see always talks at about 30 words a minute and why he always does it in that creepy, sing-songy type voice. He knows that he can't begin to show real emotion, because when he does, that's when he'll lose it. The closest I've seen to him doing that was when at one of his town hall meetings, someone asked if he really called his wife a c*nt. He came damn close to losing it and then managed to compose himself (after all, he had to), then he said: "That type of language really shouldn't be repeated in a family atmosphere like this meeting, I won't dignify that with a response." In other words, "Yeah, I called my wife a c*nt. But I'll just pretend you didn't ask that question because if I answered how I want to, I'd wring your fucking neck, you little peon!"

[AspenRose]

29. Does anyone remember when he lashed out at Maria Shriver

when she was working for NBC?

From Youtube:

March 7, 2000 incident where McCain snaps at Maria Shriver (NBC correspondent at the time). You can hear him say "You are a...What?" Maria first asks "How do you feel?" then she asks something inaudible (What do you hear? Please post in the comments).

McCain - clearly offended - stops, turns to her and says "Please get outta here".

Maria Shriver said that the incident "was really shocking to (her)" and is still unresolved during an April 24, 2008 interview on the Colbert Report. Colbert described the incident as "McCain famously bit your head off...like Ozzy Osbourne with a dove". Maria stated that she just asked McCain "What is your reaction to these results (of the 2000 primary)".

Here is how it was reported a few days later back in 2000:

McCain Terminates Interview With Shriver

Maria Shriver was still smarting yesterday over the curt retort by presidential candidate John McCain when she asked him how he felt as he prepared to concede the California primary to rival George W. Bush Tuesday night. "Please get out of here, " he replied testily, a remark that was caught on camera by MSNBC. Said Shriver moments later, "All I did was ask ... I doubt I'll be speaking to him again in the future." She told today's (Thursday) Washington Post: "I was doing my job. And I did what any other reporter would do." A McCain spokesperson said that the candidate was simply reacting to his 9-year-old daughter being jostled by Shriver's camera crew, a claim that MSNBC later denied.

Here's what McCain said about the incident on Larry King Live in 2000:

KING: What happened with Maria Shriver?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, we were walking down this very narrow area in order to give the speech of the night of Super Tuesday, and she jumped out in front of my wife and bumped into my daughter and yelled, how do you feel? And I said, please, please, let us alone, I think is somewhat along the line. I did say please.

I just thought that it was not appropriate the way that she approached it.

But look, I'm sure that Ms. Shriver was trying to do her job, and I hope she understood that I was trying to go down at a very difficult moment. And I obviously didn't -- hope she appreciated I didn't appreciate one of my children being bumped into."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYsFabidw3I

[genna]

37. Manhandling women: manhandling irritating female reporters

Well, I think of paparazzi trailing celebrities and causing accidents. I contrast that to political reporters trying to press an interview at the wrong time.


I think in order for most Americans to believe McCain is unstable, they are going to need video footage along the lines of Tusla that suggest McCain's characterization does not hold with reality.

McCain could probably slap 50 women off camera until they see one woman on air getting smacked. Otherwise, the claim is just too extraordinary to hold. If McCain is menancing to a particular woman politician like Lazio with Hillary maybe...

Otherwise, the allegation feels too heavy handed.

[AspenRose]

39. Agreed

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened, knowing the history of his abusiveness and temper...but this serious of an allegation needs irrefutable proof, else it makes our side look desperate.

Isn't it odd that people are still talking about this eight years later? Colbert likened it to Ozzy biting off the bat's head!

[1Hippiechick]

59. Lobotomy? Body Snatchers?

[madaboutharry]

13. I think his colleagues know that he

is unstable and that it frightens them. I also have to wonder what it is like in the McCain home when no one is around. I have a feeling that the scene goes way beyond typical family disagreements.

[Vinca]

16. This would have a huge impact if there was more credibility to it.

It's a shame the police didn't take a report.

[Joe Chi Minh]

19. You mean, if If McCain had some credibility to begin with.

[symbolman]

17. Sorry, but I dont buy the "backhanded" part..

not that I dont find the guy to be Vile, and a Liar.. I just dont believe he could Physically Do It..

He can't even put on a shirt or comb his own hair because his arms are so fucked up from being a POW.. Bodyslammed maybe, but he cannot Raise his arm enough to backhand someone..

As for calling his wife a C**T, that I totally believe...

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. He didn't have to raise his hand above his head, moving his comb

backwards over his head.

Is it not more improbable that a person we've no reason to believe is flakey would lie about something as outrageous and indeed criminal as that, to the extent of trying to lay a charge against him with the police?

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Well, we can't know, so it will be a matter of opinion, unless there were

witnesses who were prepared to testify. And in any case it's sad as well as regrettable, because it could only be the kind of uncontrolled anger that his torturing might have caused.

I'm a little puzzled though by this use of the word, "hero" to describe McCain. Any half-decent human being would feel compassion for him and others for the ordeals they underwent at the hands of torturers, and in that regard, respect him (the fact that he, himself, countenances an official policy of torture suggests to me - after initial feelings of angry contempt - another aspect of a generalised kind of breakdown, as evinced by his anger-management problem).

But in terms of actual bravery, the fact that he kept trying to fly and not crash-land his planes, after so many "missteps", that to me is more like physical bravery of a high order, but perhaps prudence and a career-"adjustment" would have been a more appropriate virtue in those circumstances. I'm not suggesting McCain was "high", but that his aviation skills might have been looked upon by other pilots almost as deficient as if he had been. Alas, my wife is a better driver than me, but for some reason she's the one who lacks confidence in her driving skills.

[Joe Chi Minh]

101. I'm not saying that volunteering to fly war-planes over combat zones

isn't courageous, but not more courageous than a host of his fellow servicemen and servicewomen in that war without a front.

In any case, it's puzzling that they should want to draw attention to McCain's physical courage in combat, when it stands in such stark contrast to the imaginative ways in which almost all his Republican colleagues managed to evade serving their country in Vietnam; and for that matter, in stark to contrast to the record of their Democratic colleagues on Capitol Hill. It's safer and more fun to swan around in a warry-looking humvee at home.

[symbolman]

51. Ive seen his range of motion

and its just flat impossible.

After Nam I went to work at a VA hospital which existed for the sole purpose of serving the Shell Shocked from many Wars. My job was to read their case histories and observe them for signs of pain or distress. Then I would "diagnose" one of my 300 patients and send them to the proper physician for treatment.. These vets were mostly non-communicative, so I became a sort of "empath".. I still have problems in large crowds as in the background my mind is searching for pain and thinking of the cause..

So, oddly enough I'm qualified to say that McCain doesnt have enough radial motion in his range to backhand anyone..

As for calling the cops, trying to press charges for no reason stuff.. I had an Ex Wife who was more than happy to call cops. But they always left my home empty handed.. :)

[merh]

22. I don't think he can physically back hand anyone either.

His arms just don't work right.

and I don't care who you are or what your cause, if a senator back hands or physically attacks you in the presence of others you are going to press charges.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. don't let him kid you- he has better movement

in his arms than many other 70yr old people.

But I agree, charges would have been pressed.

peace~

[symbolman]

49. Oh yeah..

if he back handed a WOMAN in Front of me there would be a Serious problem, though I imagine *I* would be the one taken off to jail, leaving a number 9 shoe behind, up his ass.. :)

Too radical, he doesnt have that range of motion, as you say ...

[Doctor_J]

21. Bush is a sociopath. McCain is a psychopath.

Repukes are evil and mentally ill people. they're delusional, hateful, self-loathing people who should be either hospitalized or in prison.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

36. Nah, Bush is a narcissist. Cheney is a sociopath.

McCain is a classic case of untreated PTSD.

[NoFederales]

23. Well, let's push his buttons nonstop. Whatta POS. nt

NoFederales

[windoe]

25. My nonprofessional analysis is that this irrational behavior

is a manifestation of his unconscious anger at himself for deciding to compromise his own principles. When his subconscious takes over, he is not in control of these overwhelming feelings of self loathing. This event triggered the inner rage he has at himself and, being unable to see this, he projected this rage outward. Doesn't take a professional to see McCain is emotionally unstable, and has been for quite some time.

He is unfit to be president, wish there was a way a mental health professional had a say in elections!!! Mental and emotional fitness must be a prerequisite to be a leader, have we not learned this? Thanks for posting.

[beachmom]

26. Now hold on a second. I don't know who these people are, but

there were some nasty groups who called McCain "The Manchurian Candidate" because he had been a POW and favored normalizing relations with Vietnam. Really, really ugly stuff. So, I think we need more witnesses before we believe this story.

What I DO know is that McCain would get so angry at these hearings, with the way some of these people treated him, that Kerry would put his hand on McCain's arm to calm him down. This was in McCain's book, and I believe it is true.

[windoe]

30. I wish there were a way to call attention to the importance of mental/emotional health

while still giving dignity and honor to McCain's service. At a time when so many veteran are struggling to maintain themselves, I am not sure how in the world to bring this up. All I know is, this country and this world have catastrophic challenges to work on, which will absolutely require someone who is not inundated with emotional issues. His handlers already know this and try to limit his public speaking time, but they cannot control everything.
Out of respect, he is not fit.

[polichick]

34. McShameful is a ticking time bomb!

[K Gardner]

38. WHAT??!!!

[Fleshdancer]

40. There are enough people named in this story to investigate

I would start with the aide and go from there. :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

41. Backhanded? What, was she three feet tall? He can't lift his arms.

[berni_mccoy]

43. That's not true. He's a photo of him waving:

[Occam Bandage]

44. Right. You'll notice his arm isn't above the horizontal.

[Ghost in the Machine]

102. The last time I backhanded someone, my hand came from waist height to shoulder height..

Do you think he was backhanding a giant? Why would his arm have to reach above the horizontal level?

[Major Hogwash]

48. That's not true, and this incident happened in 1996.

McCain has acted like his arms can't come above his chest for years, and I am sure that there is residual damage accounting for age, but this incident occurred 12 years ago.

And it did take place.
Veterans, especially Vietnam veterans, have heard about this story for years and years.

[berni_mccoy]

42. McCain is a Crazy, Angry Man who has No Place Being In the White House.

[jgraz]

45. Does anyone else think this is another symptom of someone who's been lying about their POW record?

Seriously, how much corroboration do we have of McSame's heroism as a POW? Just his word?

[Triana]

46. They can talk about "angry" Michelle and Barack all they want but NEITHER of them...

...would EVER treat POW-MIA families like this.

E V E R.

Heck, they'd never treat ANYONE like this. But MCSAME can get away with it scot free.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Because McCain is a traitor who crashed 5 planes and helped the VietCong kill Americans.

John McCain hates real American patriots.

[lonestarnot]

52. McSame should be beaten about the head and face for this very act of aggression against women, one

in particular.

[beachmom]

56. "Helped the Vietcong kill americans"? Um, care to back up that

assertion.

[Swamp Rat]

57. Colonel Earl Hopper will do that for me:

Watch all the videos:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hopper_video.htm

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mysticalmccain.htm

[beachmom]

84. That is the same group that went after John Kerry. That is the Sampley group.

I am not a fan. Sorry.

[Swamp Rat]

85. McCain is still a traitor no matter what you think.

[swimmernsecretsea]

53. Ohh, this guy is NOT getting into the White House. Not if I can help it.

So fuck off, Cindy McCain. You'll have to get your status fix elsewhere.

[Mad_Dem_X]

54. Holy crap!

This man has no respect for anyone, least of all women. Jeebus!

[grantcart]

58. This has little credibility for two reasons

1) He has limited arm motion and I don't think he can back hand some one although he would yell at them.

2) There is bad blood between McCain, officials in the government working on the MIA/POW issues and a handful of crackpot POW/MIA folks.

Here is the issue, I know this from personal experience in Vietnam after the war.

After the war the PRV was invaded by China after they invaded Cambodia to get rid of the Khmer Rouge.

They decided that it was in their best interests to simply do everything the United States Government asked them to do. There were two emotional issues - 1)POW/MIAs and 2) Refugees.

The PRV simply gave the Americans a blank check. We could take any refugees out that that US government wanted. Stranded dependents of CIA agents were put on the first flight out (some were children and I had them sleep in my house). I would guess that some extra payments might have been made but in any case all of the former officers anybody - could leave.

The other issue was POWs and MIAs. On the first issue was POWs that the Vietnamese had but never released and the second was finding remains.

The Vietnamese were cooperative on both parts. All of the several hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese refugees were told that if they had a reliable sighting of an American still in Vietnam they went to the head of the line. The USG conducted some 20,000 special interviews with refugees, conducted by former military men with Vietnamese wives who all spoke fluent Vietnamese and were highly motivated to find something.

After 5 years no credible reports were established. All of these folks who were far right wing types came to the conclusions that the Vietnamese Central Government had never kept POWs except for the following;

1)There were a few pilots who ended up parachuting into areas they had been bombed and been killed by locals before the national authorities could save them.

2)There were a dozen or so deserters who still stayed there voluntarily.

3)Other sightings were of Swedes or Russians

4)There may have been a couple of guys who escaped who the Vietnamese executed.

In the end all of these extensive reports did not allay the feeliings of a small minority of POW relatives who believed rumors that their relatives were still alive.

In the meantime the SRV had allowed the MIA recovery team to go anywhere in the country to excavate for remains.

Finally the SRV went to the extraordinary level of allowing the USG to go into any building anywhere in the country without advanced notice to search for POWs.

They were allowed free reign including going into the SRV equivalent of their Pentagon.

Obviously after that there was nothing more to request, some searches were made and a high level of trust was established between the two working groups who had formally been enemies.

In the meantime tensions with the relatives mentioned above and the government officials increased and finally it became impossible for the two to communicate - there was never any evidence that the Vietnamese every had any POWs hidden away except for the exceptions noted above.

Note: There was a group of Americans in Laos - I think it was about 2 dozen that were confirmed alive that never made it out alive and seemed to have vanished the same day.

It is assumed that they were executed in retaliation for a particularly lethal bombing on civilians or something.

Ironically all through the war and afterwards the United States never broke off diplomatic relations with Laos maintaining a small consulate in Vientian.

[McCamy Taylor]

60. Excuse me for questioning your motives, but why would "bad blood" clear McCain in this charge?

"Bad blood" is exactly the kind of thing that would cause John McCain to lose his temper and we all know that he has a bad temper and he has gotten into physical brawls before. Ross Perot, who was active in the MIA movement, helped his wife out financially when McCain was a POW and she was in the bad car wreck. I am guessing that there was probably "bad blood" between McCain and Perot later when McCain dumped his first wife to marry the heiress.

It is kind of funny to see you defending John McCain with the same fervor that you used to bash Hillary.

[grantcart]

63. I defend McCain on two very narrow issues

1) He acted quite nobly on helping the United States and Vietnam re establish diplomatic relations. I believe that this is the reason that the Clintons' have some personal affection for him. His endorsement of Pres. Clinton's actions on Vietnam eliminated all Republican opposition (reasonable opposition) on the Vietnam issue and he deserves credit for it.

2) the McCain's adoption of their daughter in Bengladesh.(I share a similar type of experience and admire the McCains on this instance).

Almost all of the other things he has done in the past that were once admirable he has undone, unfortunately.

I like to think that my vigorous opposition to Hillary was similarly done fairly on issues. There were times when certain attacks on Hillary were unfair that I objected to.

In the last two weeks I have made an effort to search out the fine things Senator Clinton has done to help for the General Election and posted numerous threads which have ironically been attacked by some Obama supporters for being naive and some Clinton supporters who found them duplicitous. You may have noticed some of your colleagues entering to defend some of my statements - lol.


Perot and McCain both have bad tempers. Perot bought into the myth that there were Americans alive in SE Asia against their will. When I was in Thailand he sponsored a number of attempts to "invade" Laos and Vietnam and these were always broken up by the Thais who arrested the con men who were taking Perot for a ride.

If the charges against McCain are true on the POW/MIA issues it means that they are also true against the Vietnamese government.

No one who interacted with the Vietnamese believe that they were anything less than straight forward. The reason was simple - after the American war with Vietnam the Vietnamese had another very bloody war with China and needed friends.

[karynnj]

110. Re-read his post - the POW/MIA committee

managed to negotiate incredible access in another country. How often will a sovereign country give permission for another country to go into every building with no prior notice. CSPAN replayed a LONG program that followed Kerry, Bob Smith and another Senator through one trip to Vietnam - it was fascinating and they explained what they were doing.

If you want to believe these extreme RW people who have been shown to be frauds, you have to believe that the entire committee, headed by John Kerry, all agreed to leave POWs behind. I don't know about the others, but Kerry made 14 trips there negotiating the ground rules and examining many areas - including ones he had been in. From accounts at the time, this was a very tough job for him.

Bob Smith went into the committee (He not McCain was the Ranking member) convinced there were prisoners still held - but signed on with everyone else in the statement that there was no evidence that POWs were held. Kerry gave Smith half the committee staff. Bob Smith, who was defeated by Bush backed Sununu in the primaries, endorsed Kerry, saying he disagreed with him on every issue, but with the Republican majority he would not be to enact liberal legislation.

[Major Hogwash]

111. That was not the topic of the OP.

This isn't about Kerry's work concerning Vietnam POWs.

This thread is about McCain losing his temper and backhanding a civilian whose family member was MIA or POW from the Vietnam War, and whose body was never recovered.

This is NOT about John Kerry.

This is about John McCain, remember him - the guy running for President?

This is about John McCain and his famous temper.

And there is no way - no way in hell - anyone can defend McCain for doing this to a civilian whose family member was a POW or MIA from the Vietnam War.

This bullshit nonsense that these people are somehow right-wingers, so they're story should be dismissed is pure hogwash.
These are Americans.
They were family members of POWs and MIAs from the Vietnam War, who went to Washington and asked McCain for help.

That's what the fucking government is supposed to do, help the people of this country, for Chrissakes!!

McCain is a sick man with an infamous temper.
He should NOT be the next President of the United States.

[karynnj]

112. OOPs - you're right - though there was a connection

in that I think both she and Sampley attacked McCain for his position on the POW/MIA committee - the difference was that she, in spite of her behavior, needed to be treated kindly - though not allowed to disrupt hearings.

But, in McCain's own book written before the 2000 election he spoke of that time period and how Kerry would keep a hand on his arm to keep him from exploding. (In fact, that book would have been Kerry's best recommendation had it been Kerry and McCain. The chapter on that chapter was as much Kerry as McCain. One was Presidential, diplomatic, methodical, rational, calm and cool ... the other was John McCain.

[Major Hogwash]

62. These people were there, asking for help from McCain, grantcart.

They were asking for McCain's help.

This story is absolutely true, whether you believe it or not.

These people have a right to be heard.
This event actually happened.

And, these people are NOT to attached the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that attacked Kerry's service record in 2004.

These are totally separate groups of people.

[grantcart]

64. I am well aware of who they are and they are a very small minority of the POW

MIA dependent community.

The same people who did the SwiftBoat Veterans for Truth have incorporated their charges in a smear against McCain, along with other charges that he was an irresponsible military officer. Some of the latter included charges that he was instrumental in the worst aircraft carrier accident (his plane exploded on deck) although it seems to me that these more outlandish charges were debunked.

As for listening to these people and their right to be heard this is what happened - I know from personal experience.

From 1978 to 1984 a group of gunnery sargents (all very rightwing, Vietnamese speakers and anti communist) conducted 20,000 interviews with refugees. The SRV allowed the USG carte blanche to go anywhere in Vietnam, etc.

All of the results were repeatedly shared with the POW/MIA community and no one believed that the Vietnamese were holding out (as noted above some evidence of one group in Laos was pretty well documented), except this hard core group.

No amount of evidence would appease the final group of diehards. In the meantime there were con men who were bringing back pictures and other shit and bilking Perot and the USG for millions of dollars to try and mount ridiculous rescue attempts (all they had to do was get into a jeep and go where they wanted the Vietnamese allowed the 100% access).

The final breaking point came when these nut cases tried to stop President Clinton from establishing diplomatic relations with the Vietnamese. They got a couple of right wing congressman that couldn't find Vietnam on a map to take up their cause and Senator McCain cut their feet out from under them by coming to the defense of President Clinton.

Either this group is right and everyone else, including all the right wing gunnery's that worked for years on it, the CIA, the PRV, McCain, and President Clinton is wrong.

They were given extraordinary access and courtesy and they wore out their welcome. I wouldn't be surprised if someone lost their temper with them you could not talk to them rationally. I seriously doubt that Senator McCain backhanded somebody and it wasn't well known until now - it was typical of folks in this group to take something out of context and blow it up. That is what they did for years and they justified it by believing that their son was sitting in a Vietnamese prison somewhere and nobody cared.

[SmileyRose]

68. I just want to tell you

I appreciate your level headed informative contribution to this thread. My husband's uncle was MIA in Vietnam. He was a pilot. It changed his family, not in a good way. I was uner 10 when it happened and he and I were already close friends. My late mother in law's family became almost impossible to be around. They were toxic. No amount of any information from the military satisfied them. My husband's grandma, the MIA pilot's mother, flew to Washington several times determined to force the police to arrest her on the grounds of the Capitol or Pentagon so the media would force the military to tell the truth to a poor greiving mother. She was obnoxious to the extreme. We kids felt really bad that the government treated my husband's family so bad.

Since my mother in law died in the 2003 my father in law has told us quite a bit about that time period and my husband and I have come to realize that his mother, grandma and aunt simply could not emotionally accept the loss of the golden boy and reacted accordingly. They meant no harm really.

Anyways, when you say "there was no talking to them" well, I guess I can relate to that - even though I was just a kid.

[grantcart]

72. Yeah eveyone felt sorry for them but they were not open to reason

and what people on DU don't understand is that McCain and Clinton were on the same side.

The reason that they hate McCain on this issue is that he defended the military and President Clinton.

Part of the problem is that Perot and others were offering million dollar rewards and so there was always a stream of people coming out of Laos with hair samples and pictures - it was just like UFOs and all of this doctored evidence.

In the newspapers it was quite funny and sad at the same time.

The Thai police were busy arresting these clowns who kept feeding families wild stories of dungeons. They kept trying 'invade' Laos and the Thais didn't want problems with their neighbors.

Anyway thanks for your nice comments on a painful subject.

[Major Hogwash]

74. You're dead wrong. This is not the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group.

This event took place in 1996.

Long before the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth formed in 2003.

[grantcart]

79. yes you are correct but some of the swiftboat folks have formed a virulent anti McCain website

that includes these charges as well as the Forrestal charges and all of the other charges about his wife and ex wife.

I don't know about the Forrestal but there are some very detailed accounts that seem to debunk it. The POW charges are really aimed at Clinton and McCain is defending Clinton and thats why they hate him.

[grantcart]

69. Here is the former anit Kerry site that now spreads smears about McCain

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm

here is there link to McCain "betrayal of the POWs

http://www.vietnow.com/pagesbooks/anenormous.htm

Here is their home page which is now pure anti McCain

http://usvetdsp.com/

There is another site that specializes in analyzing his military career and attacking him on the Forrestal accident but I can't find it



Here is a so called confrontation between McCain and the chairman of the "National Alliance of POW families"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

the allegations of the committee are aimed not at McCain but everyone inlcuding Gen Vessey and President Clinton -

on the issue of POW/MIA when they are attacking Senator McCain they are also attacking President Clinton - they were on the same side fo the issue they are accusing Clinton of criminal duplicity and McCain is defending him.

[AlCzervik]

70. is this related to Ted Sampley by any chance? He's quite the bastard.

[grantcart]

77. I forgot the names at the time but you can go through the websites above and check them

out. You can also find some really anti-McCain stuff from other Swiftboats on Forestal where there was an accident and they are blaming McCain

I have seen some credible military analysts debunk that however. The pilot jumping out of the plane is McCain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuiyXQKw3I&feature=related

[Major Hogwash]

76. Were you there in 1996? No. End of story.

You don't even know what the hell you are talking about.

You are now engaging in guilt by association.
That's bullshit.

Just because you didn't witness McCain backhand that woman, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[grantcart]

78. Major I love you man but you need to be a little open minded its on youtube.

Here is Delores Alfond in 1992 on CSPAN

and while I wasn't there it is captured on Youtube my friend.

Please bear in mind that Ms Alfond is charging President Clinton of selling the POWs down the river and Senator McCain is defending him when he is defending the honor of General Vessey who was Clinton's emissary on the issue.

As you can see Ms Alfond ends up crying in the end because no one accepts her wild charges - no back handing was done.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

[Major Hogwash]

97. Now you're trying to change the subject. This isn't about President Clinton. This is about McCain.

And when he slapped that woman - backhanded, forehanded, or underhanded - there were articles written about it when it happened.

The problem you seem to be having is that this is not about President Clinton, the normalization of relations with Vietnam, or any lovefest you may want to participate in here.

This is about McCain's reaction to a group of people that went to Washington to ask for McCain's help locating MIAs and POWs that were family members of these people.

It is because of this reaction by McCain that there is a group out there that doesn't like McCain and they don't like the way he treated these people.

That's all there is to it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

71. He did?

k

[grantcart]

73. lol no you can read upthread

here is McCain on youtube

please understand when he is defending Gen Vessey he is by extension defending President Clinton


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

75. Cool glasses!

:rofl:

[Matteon]

80. Evidence or it didn't happen

You gotta back that up with some proof.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

81. K&R

Pure unadulterated evil.

[creeksneakers2]

82. I'm not buying it

If they had any solid evidence McCain backhanded a lady then this would be followed up on by media outlets other than Free Speech TV on Dish TV. I don't trust the group it came from. There are lots of true reasons to vote against McCain. Attacks using falsehoods are likely to backfire, especially if they have anything to do with the military in general.

When disreputable POW/MIA groups attacked Kerry, only one Republican defended Kerry. That Republican was John McCain. On this issue, McCain is owed fair treatment and the benefits of very large doubts.

[grantcart]

90. here is the youtube where he is defending Clinton and his administration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

[ConsAreLiars]

86. A note to the McCain supporters.

This group is made up of people who have suffered a great loss and have dealt with that pain by becoming nearly fanatic on the POW/MIA issue. Crazed, maybe, but not crazy, and not some group of paid liars. Their extremism was fostered by the rightists as a part of their cold war mind gaming. So the encounter was undoubtedly confrontational and this report of that episode is certainly one-sided. But the specific details of each individual interaction are credible from what I saw and read.

When people are describing what they experienced they normally present their point of view at the same time. Those who were not there and make up loony shit like "McCain is incapable of backhanding anyone" are missing the obvious. This was simply a case where he was pushing his way through a hostile crown and got both rude and physical. He showed his temper, and his contempt for those who oppose him, and his basically brutal character. Very few politicians are so unhinged as to act in the way he did, even stripping out whatever exaggeration and one-sidedness you may want to read into the full account.

You can see these same characteristics in his "critiques" of Obama's positions, without the shoving. He is one sick dude.

[grantcart]

89. Here is the Cspan

there sitting across the room at tables


The POW/MIA are the ones that you have described that never accepted the facts. They are accusing the goverment included Clinton and General Vessey - his personal emmisary of colluding with the Vietnamese to cover up the allegations that Americans were still in Vietnam.

McCain after years of this shit gets angry and defends Clinton and Vessey and the woman can accept and cries

its all on the youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

Its unfortunate that the McCain at this time is not the one that is running for office now.

[ConsAreLiars]

94. That McCain, the one you admire so much,

is the same one who showed such contempt to those thoroughly fucked over and fucked up POW/MIA families he encountered in the episode in the OP. Maybe his meds were working better or he had learned to manipulate better in the event you mention.

You are right that a portion of the POW/MIA movements are totally divorced from reality, and that the Vietnamese have been cooperative and helpful and forgiving to degree few in this country could even imagine if in similar circumstances. But the point of the post was not about POW/MIA positions. It was about how McInsane reacted when encountering people who opposed his legislative position. Out of control, bullying, shoving. It shows who he truly is, then and now.

[grantcart]

96. They weren't opposing his legislative position they were accusing the Clinton administration

of selling Americans in captivity down the river for a trade deal with Vietnam.


http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977249267

After reading that portion, you will see that McCain did not sit on the Committee with an open mind but with a methodical agenda, that of giving then President Clinton the necessary cover to re-establish trade with Vietnam at the expense of the full and accurate accounting of our missing servicemen

Now in full fairness he isn't upset because they were accusing Clinton of this but because Clinton had appointed General Vessey as his personal envoy on the issue and the finest people in the military said that after 21 years and tens of thousands of interviews there was no more reason to continue. 99% of the POW MIAs accepted the reality but some just were completely unreasonable. One of the relatives of one of those unreasonable ones posted a reply upthread. Senator's frustration in trying to get through to these folks is, in effect, a defense of President Clinton.

These people have an equally deep hatred of Senator Kerry.

Also, she was critical of the committee, and in particular Kerry and McCain, for having "discredited the overhead satellite symbol pictures, arguing there is no way to be sure that the symbols were made by U.S. POWs

I consider Senator McCain the most dangerous man in America http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/95

Simply passing along clearly fabricated accounts of him bitch slapping a POW/MIA dependent is not going to advance our cause - it makes us look nutty. Moreover I have no intention to lay down with the same monsters that attacked Kerry and while the people in the story are not swiftboaters they are the ones that are spreading the story.

[ConsAreLiars]

98. Again, I am not supporting those he attacked, simply

pointing out his unstable temperament Just because this group were nutters does not automatically invalidate their account of that encounter. That does not mean they fabricated this encounter, that it was totally invented. Exaggerated a bit, surely. Use it or not, it is one more bit of data. And the consensus is there. McCrazy is one irrational and barely self-controlled psychopath. Indeed, "the most dangerous man in America." as you say.

[happygoluckytoyou]

88. did somebody say McAsshole.... guess it must be that temper thing

[orleans]

93. too bad there are no real investigative reporters anymore.

i'd be interested in hearing if this really happened.

[beachmom]

103. The writer of this article was tied to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth:

From the link in the OP:

Here is an article written by Eleanor Apodaca about John McCain:

As the sister of a missing man from the Vietnam Conflict, I am appalled at the possibility that John McCain could become the next President of the United States.

I googled Ms. Apodaca's name, and here she pops up on this military site:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-19581.html

The topic of discussion was a new smear ad against John Kerry by the SBVT:

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_video2.html

It attacks Kerry for testifying before the SFRC against the Vietnam War, and shows POWs saying how it was a betrayal to them. A lot of POWs AND POW/MIA families were on board with this attack:

http://www.powmiafamiliesagainstjohnkerry.com/betrayed/betrayed.htm

The site no longer functions, but a commenter on the military site listed all the names associated with the anti-Kerry site:

POW/MIA FAMILIES AGAINST JOHN KERRY

Eleanor Apodaca, Sister Major Victor Joe Apodaca, USAF North Vietnam 08 June 1967
Joyce Apodaca, sister Major Victor J. Apodaca USAF No. Vietnam June 8, 1967
Dolores Apodaca Alfond, sister Major Victor J. Apodaca USAF No. Vietnam June 8, 1967

Dolores Alfond is seen in this YouTube video with John McCain:

http://youtube.com/user/4powfreedom

McCain was defending the Clinton administration and the committee, chaired by John Kerry.

Oh, and just to refute the ad I linked to above:

Phil Butler, who spent eight years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, took issue with suggestions by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that Kerry's antiwar protests caused the POWs to be treated badly. "I lived with two of the POWs who are now in that group -- Mr. Courdier and Mr. Gallanti -- and I am telling you, they are full of it. We never heard a blooming thing about John Kerry while we were there," said Butler, who contacted the campaign months ago to support Kerry and only recently heard back from Kerry's veterans coordinator, John Hurley.

Butler said that while he was tortured and mistreated until 1969, by the time Kerry was protesting the war and speaking before the Senate Armed Services Committee in 1971, the POWs were better treated.

As to what McCain was going through, when he was doing the right thing on the POW/MIA issue, some history:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1996/10/21/1996_10_21_130_TNY_CARDS_000377420

Kerry and McCain, by "pulling in the same harness," in the words of one staff member, were able to get the Vietnamese to turn over troves of P.O.W. evidence; one batch included McCain's old flight helmet. What was perhaps more amazing, they were able to get the Department of Defense to declassify a million pages of documents. Every conceivable theory was aired, every charge levelled, and every hope given expression. And what this investigation revealed, in the words of its final report—twelve hundred and twenty-three pages long—was that "while the Committee has some evidence suggesting the possibility a POW may have survived to the present, and while some information remains yet to be investigated, there is, at this time, no compelling evidence that proves that any American remains alive in captivity in Southeast Asia."

The judicious phrasing of this conclusion did not conceal its meaning from those who were never going to surrender the issue. They became enraged, and aimed their anger at the one person whose participation was undermining their cause: John McCain, the man who'd gone to sleep reciting the names of P.O.W.s. I saw this not long ago, at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, in Washington. There visitors can buy T-shirts, decals, and other souvenirs, and they can pick up free copies of a bimonthly broadsheet, The U.S. Veteran Dispatch. On the front page of the June-July, 1996, issue is a photograph of a young John McCain, purportedly as a prisoner in Hanoi. The headline reads "PW SONGBIRD MC CAIN," and the caption explains, "McCain earned the title 'PW Songbird' because of the propaganda broadcasts he made for the Reds during the Vietnam War." The article elaborating the charge was written by a former Green Beret, a decorated Vietnam veteran. An article in a previous issue was headlined "JOHN MC CAIN: 'THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.' "

"Listen," Kerry said to me, sitting forward in his chair at his Washington home. "I defended him in those hearings when some stupid-ass right-wing idiot accused him of being the Manchurian Candidate, that somehow the Vietnamese had brainwashed him. This is the most unbelievably callous, degrading, nonsensical piece of crap I've ever heard in my life, coming from some chicken hawk out there, to hurl at somebody who spent as long as he did being tortured and standing up for his country, and caring about it as much as he did. It's incredible that people would behave like that, absolutely stunning."

Sometimes McCain was attacked by his fellow-senators and sometimes by witnesses. He was the lightning rod. I was told by a member of the committee staff that when Kerry and McCain were sitting near each other on the senators' dais, Kerry would, at such moments, unobtrusively move his hand over to McCain and place it on his arm and leave it there, a quiet gesture of what was becoming absolute mutual support. I asked McCain if he had been aware of Kerry's touch. "Yes," he replied. "He did that several times, and I'm glad he did. I'm grateful to him."

Stop giving these idiots oxygen. They are not credible.

[Major Hogwash]

104. McCain is the one that lacks oxygen and has no credibility. He's a piece of dawg shit.

McCain has no credibility whatsoever.
He's a lying two-faced asswipe.

[beachmom]

107. I just proved that the woman alleging these things was tied to the SBVT

I think this event did not happen, or not in the way it was described. The other example is that YouTube where they claim McCain "loses his temper". Um, not really.

Look, I don't disagree with you that McCain is two faced. But I am telling you that this is a smear on McCain, and if we Democrats are supposedly better than the Republicans, then we don't try to win elections with lies and smears. This is an example of something uncorroborated by a questionable source who has had a long term grudge against McCain, because he wouldn't indulge her conspiracy theories.

Go after McCain on the lobbyists running his campaign or his Iraq policy. But I advise everyone to leave the POW/MIA issue alone. Because you end up smearing Democrats as well as McCain, who also worked tirelessly on this issue and normalized relations with Vietnam.

[Major Hogwash]

108. John McCain even called his wife "a cunt". He is famous for having a bad temper.

By the way, you have no idea how stupid this sounds to me when you said this -
"But I advise everyone to leave the POW/MIA issue alone."

First of all, just because you don't like the people that are spoken of in the OP, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
So, I could care less if you think it didn't happen.

John McCain is not John Kerry.
The problem you seem to be having is separating the two men.
Kerry and McCain used to be good friends.

They no longer are.

[beachmom]

113. Although it's a good laugh, we have NO IDEA if he really called his wife that.

I agree that McCain is not Kerry. McCain had a very hard time keeping his cool. He said right in the New Yorker article that Kerry was "more mature" than he was. I think McCain had trouble with the POW/MIA issue, and Bob Smith of NH (R) who served on that committee & disagreed with McCain a great deal to this day thinks McCain is not fit to be president. They had a lot of fights, from what I read. But I find the people telling this story suspect. They peddled a lot of nonsense during that time. Were there any witnesses there who happened to be walking down the hall? Somebody not involved in the issue? That is what I am interested in before believing this story.

[Breeze54]

106. YOU are a wonderful 'trip', beachmom !!

Awesome research!! :yourock:

Thanks for all of that work and sharing it all!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Breeze54]

105. "McCain backhanded her, causing her to hit the wall.".....

Fucking, male chauvinist pig, low self esteem, controlling, mother focker!!!

Fucking brutal, selfish, abusive, egotistical, woman hater and beater!!! :mad:

I HATE men like this and I've known a few, sadly. Married to one. :( Divorced his ass!

Fuck That!!!! :grr:

McLame is an asshole. 'Nuff said.

[Major Hogwash]

109. The story of the OP is: McCain doesn't support the veterans or their families, just the war.

McCain has voted against, or failed to show up to vote for, the last 9 or 10 bills in Congress dealing with veteran's benefits.
McCain can't run from his record of abusing the troops that way.

It's obvious that some people think that criticizing McCain for being "a loose cannon" or "going off the wall" and backhanding normal, ordinary citizens is something that we shouldn't discuss.

I disagree.
I think these people's story is totally plausible and more than likely just the way they described it.

I think that the story is true mostly because I think that John McCain is a sick, dangerous man with an uncontrollable temper.
We already know about McCain's sick comment about "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" copying the Beach Boys' song. He said that about invading Iran at a time when troops were fighting and dying in Iraq.
He was trying to be funny, he said.
What's so fucking funny about the Iraq War?

This from a veteran, someone who should know better.

If McCain wants to be a standup comic, then he should resign from the Senate and go on the road with his bullshit act.

John McCain doesn't care about the troops serving in Iraq and he doesn't give a shit about them when they get back. His record in the Senate has proven that.
McCain also doesn't give a shit about the families of the troops, and there are many millions more of them than actual troops.

We also already know about McCain's comment that he said it didn't matter how long the troops served over in Iraq - "Let them stay there 5 years, 20 years, 100 years".

These are sick comments made by a very unstable individual.
One who is now the GOP candidate vying to be the next President of the United States.

Unfortunately for McCain many Republican conservatives don't like McCain.
More to the point, some of them detest McCain simply because they know he is a two-faced lying sack of shit that will say anything to try and score points.

If conservative Republicans feel this way about McCain, then I don't see any harm in discussing it amongst other liberals or Democrats.

McCain is famous for having a bad temper.
He shouldn't be anywhere near "the button".
He shouldn't even be allowed around small children.

Thank you for giving me a chance to speak out against McCain, someone I consider one of the biggest bullshit artists in the Senate.
He has consistently run for office on the fact that he is a veteran.

But, in the 28 years he has been in Washington, he hasn't acted like one.
He doesn't give a shit about the troops when they return to civilian life.

[williesgirl]

114. Wow. The bastard. Thanks for getting this out.