Anyone with a CREDIBLE link to the STUDY that 70% of blacks babies born without fathers?

[uponit7771]

I've always thought that was an overly inflated number but I'd like to confirm the study now, all I get are some MOSTLY inconsistent quotes of the 70% number but not ONE link after 4 google pages to the study itself.

I read a thread on a debate on some figures but it was a freeper thread and OWRongly was the source who then sourced a racist study that he took at face value or misquoted (for instance saying 90% of black babies aren't born with fathers present ............in the birth room) etc.

Thank you in advance.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. no fathers? Wow. cloning is really moving along, isn't it?

[Barack_America]

Lol.

My thoughts exactly.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

19. A father is

someone who sticks around.

You are thinking of a sperm donor.

[uponit7771]

24. Right, I don't see any studies of the "father" issue in the black community just the "unmarried" one

...but I can see the conjecture being made because of the CDC study and the racist ass'd PSID study that oversampled poor "women of color".

This issue has been a thorn in my side for a sec or two

[FrenchieCat]

2. here.....

Seventy-five percent of all black children born in the last two decades are likely to live for some portion of their childhood with only their mothers.
Bumpass, L.L. and J.A. Sweet, “Children Experience in Single-Parent Families: Implications of Cohabitation and Marital Transitions.”

“Today only one-third of black children have two parents in the home.”
Dennis A. Ahlburg and Carol J. DeVita, “New Realities of the American Family”

A longitudinal study of the effects of divorce among African-Americans found that women suffered an economic loss of 25 percent and men suffered a 7 percent economic loss.
Pollock, Gene E. and Atlee L. Stroup, “Economic Consequences of Marital Dissolution for Blacks

Black children are only half as likely as white children to be living in a two-parent household and are eight times more likely than white children to live with an unwed mother. For black children under six, the most common arrangement applying to 42 percent of them was to live with a never married mother.
Maggie Gallagher, The Abolition of Marriage

In Hamilton County in 2002, 73 percent of births to African American women were out of wedlock compared to 26.5 percent of unmarried white women.
Tennessee Department of Health
http://firstthings.org/page/research/african-american-family-facts

[uponit7771]

6. Thank you very much, but that's not the study it's someones quote of the study, I'm sourcing up on..

..the study itself, not an analysis.

One of the reason why some people in freeperville wont source up is because they know it's a 12 year old study with 80's data.

Also, here's a contrary review to the oversampling of poor black families

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/45631/1/11199_2004_Article_BF00287401.pdf

[Bucky]

16. Oh my. That first study was conducted by "Bumpass and Sweet"

It took me a couple of seconds after reading those names to be sure this wasn't a parody.

Seriously, "Bumpass and Sweet" sounds too much like a mid 70s R&B duo.

[EFerrari]

3. That number is too high. It's more like 60%. Here are two links.

The first one (from 95) speaks to this demographic (and this number seems to be trending downward since 95), but the second one tells you something about that demographic.

Sixty-three percent of nation's black families were headed by single parents in 1993: Census Bureau
Jet, Jan 30, 1995

There are an increasing number of single parents, particularly Black parents, raising children, Census Bureau information shows.

In fact, 30 percent of all Americans, and a whopping 63 percent of the nation's Black familes were headed by single parents in 1993, the Census Bureau reported.

The last census, in 1990, counted more than 7 million single parent families. The number represents about 28 percent of all families with children. That's up from 13 percent in 1970 and 22 percent in 1980.

The single family statistics include mothers and fathers who are divorced, widowed or never married, and represent all income groups.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n12_v87/ai_16404531

Study on black single moms debunk stereotypes

Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2004
By: MONICA M. LEWIS, BlackAmericaWeb.com

A recent report by the U.S. Census Bureau shows that more than 80 percent of black single mothers have completed high school – an achievement that not only can aid them in raising families but one that goes a long way in debunking the stereotypes of single black mothers as welfare queens and drug abusers.

“We’ve kind of always known that black women had much stronger labor force attachments than white women,” Rutgers University professor William M. Rodgers told BlackAmericaWeb.com.

However, he said, a pay gap still exists between black and white women – as does other hurdles that make managing a one-parent household difficult for women of color.

“Many have challenges due to their surroundings,” Rodgers said, adding that more often than not, black single mothers may face an array of problems, ranging from finding suitable childcare to recovering from domestic violence.

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/singlemoms1221

[theboss]

26. 63 percent is still a terrifying number

And it's close enough to 70 that you can easily get above that barrier by calculating families that were headed by single mothers for a time.

[EFerrari]

43. Depends what you mean by "terrifying".

Diverges from the PR story of who we're supposed to be? Maybe.

But it's just not surprising, given what it's like to be black and poor in America and what huge liars the PR types are.

:shrug:

[ashrob123]

4. FYI

No matter where you get these statistics they are a bit misleading. They usually lump people who are not married (although living together) with single mothers with no father present in the home.

All with a grain of salt.

[uponit7771]

8. Yeap, I'm trying to get some other people to think...this crap has been out for a WHILE and people..

...take the word of poor oversampled racist study at face value.

[FrenchieCat]

5. and

Eugene Cane (an African American writer for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel) tackles the tough social question regarding single parenting in the African-American community. An issue, which he believes has an impact on everything from crime to education to poverty.

"Why are there so many out-of-wedlock births in the African-American community?" He asks, and presents statistics indicating that nearly 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock - surely an incredible figure. http://racerelations.about.com/od/parentingrace/a/outofwedlock.htm

[uponit7771]

Thank you FC, again, I'm trying to source up the study not commentary on the study or analysis.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Read my post #12

as to what the real point was of Obama's speech.

Out of Wedlock births in the Black community can be explained in a variety of reasons.

However, the occurence of Black men not participating in the rearing of the children is not exactly the same issue. This was the issue that Barack was discussing and feels needs to change.

[wvbygod]

7. I doubt Obama just made it up

Perhaps you could query his campaign staff for the source.

[uponit7771]

9. I'm forming an email to his campaign right now, Blacks have an issue with self depreication and this

...racist 1970 data done by the PSID who oversampled poor "women of color" is an example of that.

People who know other blacks should be scratching their heads just from the high figure alone

[FrenchieCat]

12. Regardless of the percentage, it is a huge issue in the Black Community,

as you well know.

And it needs to be discussed.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that Young Black women tend not to get abortions and choose to have their children instead......so there are reason why so many out of wedlock births in the Black community.

But the issue that Barack was stressing are the many young Black men who do not pay child support and/or provide a presence in their children's lives. I believe that this point is germaine, and that there needs to be more Black men participating in the rearing of their children. That was the point of Obama's speech, and it was on point.

There are many young Black men who can't or don't want to pay the child support and go underground in the employment system in order to beat the various District Attorney's offices looking to garnish their wages. These same men tend to stay away from their children due to the fact that they are not contributing. This is a fact.

[uponit7771]

17. The ecumenical apects are huge not the issue of unmarried women have babies. Not everyone is a...

...Jehovah based believer

"believe that this point is germaine, and that there needs to be more Black men participating in the rearing of their children."

The PISD or CDC study doesn't address the issue of absenteeism in black father hood is just "unmarried women"...it can be said that the probability is high but that's not my experience; MOST brothahs I know, my age especially, take care of their kids.

I'd like to see some empirical data on this issue vs. speculation out of the misquoted PSID (which was racist IMHO) or CDC studies.

Also, NO ONE cites the current effect of RayGuns War On Blacks....er uh...Drugs which sent many folk to jail during the 80s and 90s for less drug crimes than whites. RayGuns War On Drugs (vs the sources) was a reason the disparity in drug charges existed.

respect to you

[FrenchieCat]

22. I understand what you are saying......

but the war on drugs, etc.... is not an excuse.

And I know that in my community of Oakland, California and as a minister's wife and member of the largest Black church in Oakland, there is indeed hard evidence of the fact that many young Black men who do not participate actively in the upbringing of their kids and when they do, it is on an irregular basis. It is a problem in the Black community, and if we keep insisting that it is not, or that there are "reasons" for this, we continue to excuse the behavior.

Even in my own family, this issue is relevant. I have a cousin who has fathered 3 children over the years by different mothers, and he has only truly raised the youngest. The other two were raised by their mothers, and my cousin avoided even getting a regular job for years in order to circumvent his wages being garnished. He was a handyman, etc.....getting paid under the table. This is a scenario that occurs over and over again. He would see his children now and then, but when he wanted to, not on a regular basis as should have been more appropriate for the benefit of the children.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T80-46P9YN5-8&_user=10&_origUdi=B6V98-4400F1M-4&_fmt=high&_coverDate=09%2F30%2F2002&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=de1c8bb33bd89cc3e696860a2506ed79

[uponit7771]

23. I think we have a basis of agreement; it's a problem. We might disagree on how BIG the problem is...

...relative to other races though and I'd like to see some empirical evidence on it seeing I know just as many white males who don't want to be bothered with their children as blacks (and that's very few).

Even people in my family who have not taken advantage of what's available aren't absentee while I've witnessed people who are dead beats It hasn't been my over all experience.

I've learned something today, respect to you

[NJObamaWoman]

18. I'm a product of such an environment.

My mom was in her late 20's when she had me and was married to my father. A few months into her pregnancy she divorced my father. I'm 24 now and my mom has never recieved child support. Not a DIME. My mother raised me all on her own at times working 3 jobs to support us. She left me at home by myself at times because she had no one to watch me. So at an early age maybe 9 or 10 I had to take care of myself. Get up, feed myself, wash myself, and walk to school by myself. What could she really do because there was no one to turn to for help. She told me when I was old enough to understand it that it just wasn't worth fighting for child support. She would have to hire a lawyer and all her hard earn money would go to that lawyer then where would we be? Living in an city with nothing. This is a woman who wanted so much more for me and worked 3 jobs to pay high rent in a suburban town so that I wouldn't receive a bad education from an inner city.

These are issues that must be dealt with. My story is one of millions. The black family life is breaking down. Life in America is destroying black families.Again I'm tired of presidential candidates pandering to the black community and then ignoring real issues once they are elected. Paying child support, lack of education, lack of jobs, lack of affordable health & day care are all issues that plaque the black community. I feel that if some of these issues were resolved better. Than we wouldn't see such a high rate of childless fathers.

[goldcanyonaz]

10. Where is the study about white babies born w/o fathers?

i see many unwed white women with babies

[uponit7771]

11. The study that people wont source (they constantly source commentary thought) took a sample of "...

...women of color..." and oversampled poor people.

I'm trying to get people to think and I'm forming an email to the Obama campaign as I type.

[ieoeja]

13. National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS)

From the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) of the Center for Disease Control (CDC)...

Number and Percent of Births to Unmarried Women, by Race and Hispanic Origin: United States, 1940-2002

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/statab/natfinal2002.annvol1_17.pdf


This shows the percentages at 28.5% (White) and 68.2% (Black) for the most recent year reported. Not quite 75%. But in the ballpark.

[uponit7771]

15. That has the study on "Births to Unmarried Women" not babies born without fathers present or no ...

...fathers present in these babies lives.

Not everyone is Jehovah based believers.

I don't like those numbers either but I can't impose my ideals on others and that study doesn't address the question of 70% born without fathers (it's impossible) or even without fathers present or even without fathers present in these babies lives.

Just "unmarried women"...

[Zynx]

25. "Jehovah based believers"? I don't believe I am familiar with that term.

[uponit7771]

27. Jewish, Koran, Bible all have first 3 books of bible in common and concept of marriage is mentioned

...in Genesis.

[theboss]

30. Because Black people are not Christian?

I think it's pretty safe to say, that black people - by incredibly wide margins - are "Jehovah-based."

[Zynx]

31. Religiosity in the African American community, if anything, is higher than among other groups.

Also, my Asian friends are virtually all atheists and I have only known one divorced family, and the girl I knew from that family was probably the most emotionally unstable person I have ever met, among roughly 40-50. Statistics also support that there is a great deal of family cohesion among Asian families.

[theboss]

28. Every statistic puts "single-mother-led" households around 60 percent

Whatever the hell a Jehovah-based believer is, a 16-year-old girl having a baby is probably not in an "unconventional relationship."

[uponit7771]

29. true

[theboss]

32. Which means that there are 60 percent of families without fathers "present"

"Involved" is much harder to calculate. And much harder to define.

[uponit7771]

33. Yeap, that's why I'm asking for empirical data on this. People kinda go of the CDC study as if it...

...doesn't have it's own bias's but my experience has been totally different amongst blacks in all levels of affluence.

[Zynx]

35. If I went off my own experiences rather than data, 85% of marriages never end in divorce.

I know quite few people from broken marriages. However, statistics show that divorce is more common than not so I'll go with that.

[uponit7771]

38. I understand where the conjecture could be made & there some probability to go along with it but we

...all have our bias's and "shoes" that we've walked in depending on what region you live in, experiences etc.

I think a study on involved would be more definitive than leaving it up to the biased CDC study to make conclusions from.

[theboss]

40. 11 percent of black men in their 20s are in prison

That's a pretty high percentage of the bat who probably aren't the most inolved of fathers.

20 percent of blacks are born to teenage mothers. Again, I'm guessing that this is another group with a poor level of "involvement."

[uponit7771]

42. Yeap, RayGuns War On Blacks...er...uh....Drugs was a HUGE contributer to the "unmarried" number...

[theboss]

44. Well, the number spiked to 20 percent in 1980.

Actually, the number may be higher now; I think I was looking at ancient data.

But, yes, the war on drugs was a war on black people.

Still....every number indicates that lack of involved fathers in the black community is a real issue.

[uponit7771]

46. I agree that it's an issue I think were I disagree with some is that this issues is bigger in the...

...black community (issue being fathers absent from their childs life fiscally etc) than any other factoring in RayGuns War On Black folk.

[theboss]

37. I don't know where you are living, but my experience is exactly the opposite for all races

There is also quite a difference between "divorced" dads and dads who abandon their kids.

[Zynx]

34. From what I've seen in all cases of single mother-led households, the odds

are fairly high the father is not involved at all. Even if they are, they are certainly not involved in the healthiest ways possible. A cohesive family unit is simply the best way to raise a child and family formation should be encouraged for that reason.

[uponit7771]

36. See, I have the TOTAL opposite experience. One mother I know is so damn lazy she doesnt want ANYTHIN

...to do with her kids but she's also young and immature.

But the father who is very close in age is totally different TOTALLY.

There's little empirical evidence on the levels of INVOLVEMENT single fathers have in their children's lives.

Matter of fact, I'd go as far to say there are FEW black fathers out there saying "hey, I'm a dead beat and I don't give a damn"

again, this is my experience which I think it'd be good to have some empirical data to go against.

[theboss]

39. This stuff means nothing to me.

I grew up with about 15 really close friends. Only one of them had parents who divorced.

The divorce rate at the time was about 45 percent.

So...does that mean that the statistic is wrong and 14 out of 15 parents stay together? Or was I just experiencing an outlier?

[uponit7771]

41. I'm not saying my experience is proof I am saying that the CDC report leads to conjecture vs...

...hard facts on the metrics I mentioned in the OP.

[Zynx]

45. I will say, from my contact with ministers in Milwaukee, they have always confirmed

what you dismiss as being a stereotype. There is a serious problem with cohesive family formation in the inner cities of this country and I think its effects are seen in the statistics out of the school districts in those cities. Kids growing up in broken homes are not going to do well in their studies.

[uponit7771]

47. I know and I see black pastors etc "confirming" this from the same source I do; my eyes...I dont see

...any empirical data though and trusting someone on this subject leaves my and others people experience MY AGE out of the equation.

It's just me, if something doesn't add up I question it...

[MGKrebs]

20. This is a study that the Urban League did

with data up to 2002.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/311342_B-69.pdf


"In 2002, 22.4 million children had a
parent living elsewhere. That year, 21 percent
of these children, or 4.7 million, lived
apart from their mothers. The living arrangements
of these children are very different
from children who live apart from
their fathers (figure 1). Children who live
apart from their mothers are much more
likely to live with neither parent than children
who live apart from their fathers."

Possibly more stuff here:
http://www.urban.org/family/index.cfm

[uponit7771]

21. Thank you, I've conceded that the PROBABILITY of a child living without their fathers could be high

...giving the CDC numbers of "unmarried" women but I've seen no empirical data of black children living without their fathers in the lives or present at the birth of their child.

I've stated before that the CDC assumes "married" is something to be studied seeing "married" is a Jehovah based institute or one that was assumed children should have but IMVHO a study of children without fathers in their lives would've been more telling.

I'm being very anecdotal on my stance due to the fact that MOST black fathers I know are VERY VERY involved in their children's lives and almost the OPPOSITE for the mothers (my experience).

Thx