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Kerry Wants An Imperial Presidency! Explaining Kerry's IWR answer?

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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:18 PM
Original message
Kerry Wants An Imperial Presidency! Explaining Kerry's IWR answer?
Edited on Tue Aug-17-04 06:54 PM by WiseMen
Only one good explanation exists for John Kerry’s controversial answer to the “knowing what we now know” question. It is Kerry’s belated, perhaps self-serving, support for an “Imperial Presidency.”
John Forbes Kerry would clearly prefer the role of the Roman “Caesar” to that of a senate-hamstrung “Consul.”


FDR created the imperial presidency taking to the executive branch an active role in the economy. He made it business of the president to take care of the U.S. public as well as lead in establishing foreign policy.

Kerry aspires to be an FDR caliber President and knows that the President cannot achieve fundamental change in the direction the country, in the reform of our political process or long-term environmental and energy policy without strong executive authority.

Having followed Kerry and the IWR from the beginning, I strongly disagree with his decision to answer Bush’s provocative hypothetical question. However, below is how I believe Kerry has begun to and will continue to explain his answer:

____________

In a post 9/11 world it is more important than ever for a President to have unfettered command of the armed forces to protect our national security. I voted for Presidential authority because that is the authority I personally would wish to exercise as President.

I know that many of my Democratic colleagues don’t share my support for greater executive power at this time, but for me it is as matter of principle. I supported Bill Clinton’s use of executive authority to deploy military force in Bosnia and Kosovo even in the face of congressional opposition, and would have given him the same authority contained in the IWR to hold Sadaam accountable in the late 90’s had it had been requested.

Now, after a devastating attack on New York and our nation’s Capital, I could not but vote to authorize full presidential authority to execute what was obviously a difficult foreign policy initiative against the dangerous regime of Sadaam Hussein. In my vote, I conditioned my support for Presidential action on promises made by the President to the Senate that he would act under U.N. mandate, and I still believe I did that correctly.

Now it is clear that the intelligence we had on WMD’s in Iraq was way off the mark. But even knowing what I know now about Sadaam incompetence, deceptions and braggadocio does would not make me withdraw my vote. Sadaam was still a threat that sooner or later had to be confronted.

What gives me much greater pause is what we now know about the incompetence, deceptions and braggadocio of George Bush. Knowing what we now know about George Bush few if any Democrats would have voted for the resolution - he likely would not have been gained the Presidency in the first place – but that is what my campaign is all about.


______________


Remember, I am not expressing my opinion above. See my "Kerry Blew It." post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?
az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=607751

And, my "Kerry IWR Vote Was Right" (For Kerry):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=157220
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ummm..."he likely would not have been gained the Presidency ..."?
You lost me somewheres on this one.

But nice effort
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think it can be stated much more simply.
Edited on Tue Aug-17-04 06:29 PM by Hoping4Change
"Bush betrayed the trust of those of us who voted for the IWR. When I supported resolution, I trusted that those in command would be competent and honest."
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No that would just sound stupid. If Kerry EVER trusted Bush he's an idiot
especially after his investigations of cocaine-contra and BCCI.

I like this approach more or less (notreallky any good excuses in my opinion) but it is better NOT to say he trusted Bush.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I agree! "Know what we know now about WMD" destroys other explanation.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. There is nothing idiotic in trusting that Bush and his cohorts
in a matter of war would act responsibly and that there would not be a reckless rush to war. Furthermore if Kerry anticipated that an invasion would occur he would have assumed that others not Bush would be responsible for planning it.

Had Bushco heeded Shenseki and others who argued for a massive post-war troop presence, it is arguable that the US would not be in the present predicament.


No one would have anticipated this level of incompetence.


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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Imperial President OK with me! As long as he is "sensitive."
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Agreed. I don't use the concept in a negative way.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Too long and rambling.
It won't fit on a bumper sticker or in a 15-second sound bite...
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Better to ramble than leave people like Mathews and Hart confused!
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only one good explanation exists?
If that was the case we wouldn't be having this on-going row.

If you want to hear a serious discussion of the subject, here is a link to an audio program from WBUR On Point Radio. I think is does a good job of exploring this issue in depth. There is plenty of material on both sides:



Kerry's Vote on Iraq
Aired: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8-9PM ET

President Bush charged Democrat John Kerry with shifting positions on the Iraq war as he opened a five-day campaign swing in Florida.

The Bush campaign has been pressuring Kerry to say whether he would have still voted for the Iraq war given the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been found. Kerry on Monday said he would have voted to give the president authorization to use force against Iraq "but I would have used that authority effectively."

Bush says it's further evidence of Kerry flip-flopping on the war effort. The Kerry campaign says polling data show Florida veterans are starting to move toward the Democrat's side due to the turmoil in Iraq.

Guests:

Dan Payne, Democratic strategist and media consultant
Peter Canellos, Washington Bureau Chief, The Boston Globe
Ralph Nader, independent candidate for president
Sidney Blumenthal, former advisor to President Clinton, columnist for Salon.Com
Jack Beatty, On Point News Analyst, senior editor for The Atlantic Monthly

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2004/08/20040810_b_main.asp

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Exgeneral Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. "ongoing row"????
Edited on Tue Aug-17-04 06:45 PM by Exgeneral

where are we going?
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Lovely!
Edited on Tue Aug-17-04 07:09 PM by Xipe Totec
The thing about rowing is that you have to do it on both sides at the same time, and in the same direction. Otherwise you just go around in circles.

Beautiful picture. You made me smile!

:hi:

(sorry. syntax)
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Kerry's IWR Vote has been explained. Question is There Were No WMDs, Now
how would have voted!
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The Real Question Is
Why is that question SO important? :think:

It is a hypothetical question; It does not change the past one way or the other, nor does it change who Kerry is one way or the other.

Consider what would have happened if Kerry had said no.

What is the Republican's favorite meme regarding Kerry? Kerry is a Flip-Flopper. If Kerry had even twitched is the direction of changing his vote, they would have rolled out a whole pre-canned parade of "Kerry is a Flip-Flopper" Adds.

The so called "Democratic Wing of The Democratic Party" would have been mollified. Not happy, but mollified. Meanwhile independent voters would have stampeded to the Republican side. Kerry would have joined the ranks of other men who stood on unbending principle. Right between Carter and Dean.





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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Kerry should NEVER have touched the hypothetical question!!
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You Got Me There
Now THAT was a screw up!
:thumbsup:
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Two years later is a great time to come up with the reasons
for the way you vote.

You know, I think we've seen this after-the-fact justification somewhere before.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Think the issue now is our Leader's most recent "knowing what you know now
answer!! I have a problem with it. It is really hard to explain.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Not Really Hard to Explain, Just Hard To Admit
That he was up against the ropes; having to vote on IWR less than a month before coming up for reelection. Voting no would have been suicide.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-18-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Was Kerry up for re-election that year? Did not know his seat has been in
danger since Weld.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Knowing what we now know" answer was shocking. Any explanation
better than nothing.

Repeat of reasons John voted for the IWR in the first place
does not answer the question.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. Would love to hear DemStrategist Opinion. Some idiotic strategy
meeting apparently preceeded decision to answer the stupid hypothetical.
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ItsThePeopleStupid Donating Member (179 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. well, for one thing,
it would have been used in the debates.

Better for Kerry to answer it now, IMO.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Can always sidestep hypothetical question. The questioner looks pushy
Edited on Tue Aug-17-04 09:29 PM by WiseMen
is he insist on pressing hypothetical "what if" question rather
than dealing with real situation the public is dealing with.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-19-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wish Kerry surrogates would take this tact. Folks want a Strong President
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