Was Kerry really absent 76% of the time

[lupita]

from the intelligence committee meetings?

I just saw this nasty add on tv...


Lupita

[Bluebear]

1. No.

[iwantmycountryback]

3. Take a wild guess

Anything you see on Bush's vicious attack ads you pretty much know is a lie.

[Desipient]

18. Where can I go to find proof that the claim is a lie

Is there official documentation that has such information?

[Selwynn]

39. Let's see some proof please? Otherwise, we're no different than them

The thing tha makes democrats more sophisticated is our ability to support true claims and refute false claims with evidence, not supposition, emotionalism or sensationalism.

[jackstraw45]

2. This story has been in the newscycle for over 48 hours....DNC FAILS again

I'm glad to hear that Kerry is bringing in people to the DNC - this is pathetic that this story hasn't been COUNTERED LOUDLY.

Sunday talk shows anyone?

I want to SCREAM!!!!

[lupita]

5. I know!- there is nothing in Kerry's rapid response in his

website... Where are the facts to debunk this?

[Sparkly]

6. Here

http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/archives/002455.html

[w13rd0]

9. That's a great refutation...

...detailed and exhaustive. Of course, the problem is that the GOP takes advantage of the short attention span of the average american. Reading this refutation takes time. Bush's ad was 30 seconds long, but it takes quite a bit of text for a comprehensive refutation. Same thing with all the shit the GOP slings, but that's why they sling so much. There's also some excellent attacks on Bush in there as well. But in this context, they aren't attacks, but part of a refutation.

[Sparkly]

16. Basically, they're counting how many times he made statements

In only selected meetings -- the open meetings. If he didn't make a statement on the record at those particular meetings, they're figuring he wasn't there, and then they figure their percentage from that. At least that's the way I understand it.

[sandnsea]

29. Closed meetings are closed

I don't think they can say anything about anything that happens in them.

[I Claudius]

25. Am I missing something?

I don't see anywhere that it says how many meetings Kerry did attend, only statistics on how many mentings there were.

[Sparkly]

26. I believe the burden of proof is on the accusers

And personally, I don't care how many meetings he attended.

[I Claudius]

28. But then we would have to depend on the Republicans to tell us how many?

Isn't how we got here in the first place?

[Sparkly]

34. Or not

If they have an accusation, they have to prove it.

If they can't prove it, they don't have an accusation.

And they can't prove this, because they're not privy to info from closed meetings. So they have nothing to say.

[rocktivity]

15. You call this debunking?

Ad Text: “As a member of the intelligence committee, Senator Kerry was absent for 76% of the committee’s hearings.”

Selective math and sketchy methods:
The Bush-Cheney Campaign is using misleading numbers and cannot pretend to have the facts. They rely only on whether Sen. Kerry made statements in one of a small number of open hearings. For example from 1993-1998 the Select Intelligence Committee held more than 329 meetings, hearings and markups. Just 65 of these were open meetings.

...The following Republican members also failed to speak at a public hearing that year: John Chaffee; Malcom Wallop, Ted Stevens, Slade Gorton, John Danforth...


It's missing a little something: "Senator Kerry attended XXX meetings, XXX hearings, and XX markups!" They were able to figure out who didn't speak at these meetings, but they can't tell us how many Kerry attended?

I'm really beginning to believe Kerry has a GOP mole on staff...

:headbang:
rocknation

[mememe]

36. It's worse than you think

"I'm really beginning to believe Kerry has a GOP mole on staff..."

Frankly, it's starting to look like the mole is Kerry himself. Witness:

1. Documenting attendance X times out of Y meetings held is not very hard. Including closed meetings requires only that he authorize that data to be released.

2. Claiming to be the Vice Chairman of the Intelligence Committee is stupid when it is easily refutable.

3. The "Christmas in Cambodia" and "CIA hat" stories do nothing but undermine credibility and lend credence to the swift boat guys, keeping them in the news.

Somebody better get their heads screwed on straight or this will take on a life of its own, killing any message the campaign tries to put out.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Do your own research

don't wait for the campaign to tell you what to think!

Gee, we are starting to think like Republicans in here! They are the ones that need a Voter Guide from the Pat Robertson people to see how to vote.

[jackstraw45]

11. You're missing the source of our anger

I don't care if the DNC rebuts the ad to ME...

I want SWING VOTERS to KNOW that the ad is false.

I wanted SWING VOTERS to see a democrat easily REFUTE this latest attack yesterday on EVERY Sunday morning show.

We Democrats deserve better than the DNC gives.

It's time to CLEAN HOUSE.

[IndianaGreen]

13. When was the last time the Republicans told the truth about anything?

Let me think....

:think:

Gee, I guess that was a couple of weeks ago when Bush said that his Administration was working very hard to harm the country and the world.

[PretzelWarrior]

4. probably not. unless they are counting bathroom breaks, lunch breaks,

etc. If it took them this long to roll it out--you know it must be way down the list of things to put ads out on.

Next up: Kerry wears slipons because he doesn't know how to tie his shoes.

Kerry was seen crying once by a guy when he was 6. That means he's too sensitive and can't handle being the BIG MAN in the oval office.

Kerry is too tall.

Kerry looks French (wait--they used that one already).

I know Bush was absent for roughly 70% of his adult life. SO does that factor in?

[Hippo_Tron]

8. LMAO big man in the oval office

[Darkseid69]

10. The 76% percent

http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/archives/002455.html#more

FUZZY MATH AND BAD STATS MISLEAD ON KERRY’S RECORD

Ad Text: “As a member of the intelligence committee, Senator Kerry was absent for 76% of the committee’s hearings.”

Selective math and sketchy methods:
The Bush-Cheney Campaign is using misleading numbers and cannot pretend to have the facts. They rely only on whether Sen. Kerry made statements in one of a small number of open hearings. For example from 1993-1998 the Select Intelligence Committee held more than 329 meetings, hearings and markups. Just 65 of these were open meetings.

[merh]

12. In USA today

Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton responded that Bush had "resumed his misleading negative campaign."

Clanton released an analysis of what the Kerry campaign calls Bush's "fuzzy math" on the senator's attendance at Intelligence Committee meetings. The Bush campaign examined records of the committee's 65 open hearings from 1993 through 1998, when Kerry was a member, and counted him present if the records said he was there or contained a quote from him.

Clanton says the examination ignored the rest of "more than 329" meetings in those years. Only records of the 65 open hearings are available for review.

(snip)

As for the claim that Kerry proposed "slashing" the intelligence budget by $6 billion, the analysis said Bush's campaign co-chairman, former Oregon senator Mark Hatfield, "voted with Kerry" on the issue in 1994. Also, the Kerry campaign said, intelligence budgets "approved by Republicans and Democrats over the next two years were below the level they would have been under Kerry's" plan.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2004-08-15-ad-bush_x.htm

[Snoggera]

14. Were you sleeping

while he voted for the past 19 years?

I have no more tolerance for anti-kerry posts, even if you personally didn't see it as being such.

Read what he voted on in the Senate for the past 20 fucking years. Maybe then you won't have to ask this question.

[lupita]

22. Let's see, I was a little kid in Mexico, 19 years ago...

But this week, I organized a fund raiser that got $2000 dollars this weekend for the Washington COunty Democrats in Oregon.
I filmed a political for Congressman Wu Last Monday. I took care of my kid who got injured at camp. I am a full time engineer. I registered
27 voters this week, and I took my son to a soccer game.

No, I didn't have time to do the research. Oh by the way, I am sponsoring an event on Wednesday for the congressman above...

All of this in a week. It is so nice to hear from fellow democrats like you...

[Snoggera]

27. God Damn, I hate to hear from dems like you

Questionable evidence for your ignorant post.

Why are you a Dem again?

Wake up.

[Egnever]

30. Nice!

:yourock:

I would bet an unamed poster has done nothing but sit on his ass and bitch.

[Sugarbleus]

31. Agree.......geez

someone needs to take a chill pill...or a nap. *growl*

[I Claudius]

33. Kerry was the Vice-Chairman of the Senate Intel Commitee

It's disrespectful to ask for his attendance record.

[I Claudius]

40. I apologize! Kerry wasn't Vice-Chairman of the Senate Intel Commitee.

So, we're back to square one. The Kerry campaign has the burden of clearing this up, and they need to do it yesterday.

[zulchzulu]

17. How ad will be seen by 89% of population

Profile one:

Variable A:
Man and woman with a kid are watching TV.

They are just finishing dinner by the tube.

Eery music comes on and it's obviously another negative Bush ad. Dog barks. Cat runs out of room.

Man yawns and flicks to another channel. Woman asks kid if he wants to go to sleep. Man yawns again 30 seconds later and changes channel back to what he was watching, thus missing commercial.

Neither are registered voters and will skip the election this year since they are too lazy or busy to care.

Variable B: Single mom and child
Variable C: Bachelor with girlfriend who prefers masturbation and ESPN
Variable D: Senior couple with health issues and no money

[PsN2Wind]

19. The Kerry campaign needs to counter with:

The Bush campaign has brought up absenteeism.
Do you really want to talk about absenteeism? Lets look a George Bush's Texas Air National Guard record.

[Sparkly]

20. Or his vacation time as pResident.

[zulchzulu]

21. Bush vacation with August 6 2001 PDB ad

Just do a mini-Fahrenheit 911 ad with Bush playing golf on day that he was REALLY warned about 911.

Simple tagline: Are We Safer with Someone Who Ignores Warnings?

End with latest Bushism quote:
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004


Biotch.......slap

[iwantmycountryback]

23. Or August 2001

Bush was on vacation while terrorists were about to make the largest attack on U.S. soil in the history of the country.

[iwantmycountryback]

24. We all thought of the same thing

At least we know what we're up against. We need more people like us on TV speaking for Kerry.:headbang:

[AngryAmish]

32. A filthy lie from the shit-eaters

John Kerry cares about this country. Senate Intelligence Committee is about the most important committee. Being absent that much would be gross negligence. There is no way Kerry would do that - the country comes first, not his career. He has proven that.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our third quarter 2004 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.