There is not one documented incident of a misogynistic Obama supporter.

[LoZoccolo]

I've asked for them, but all I've gotten so far are the "ha ha" and "you are blind" responses. I can give then Hillary-supporter racism and religious bigotry right on YouTube, but so far they have produced nothing other than vague speculations about someone's "real" intentions.

[papau]

1. I documented many - use the search function or use google

[LoZoccolo]

3. For everyone else's reference, this is the type of response I've been getting. n/t

[TahitiNut]

11. It's ipsedixitism ... especially laughable (pathetic?) on an anonymous message board.

:shrug: Sadly, we humans often elevate our own opinions to the ex cathedra level.

[northernsoul]

65. Mad props for use of the term "ipse dixit"

It's true because I say it's true, dammit.

[TahitiNut]

152. If I can use it 9 more times in the next 6 months, the vocabulary Gods say it's mine.

All mine! (Heh-hehe-he) All mine! :rofl:

[jgraz]

118. Damn, and here I thought I knew all the words.

[frickaline]

136. Nice!

I had to look those both up ><

Thank you for the vocabulary lesson of the day.

[TahitiNut]

150. I have to admit a certain childish delight in the chance to use those terms.

I'm particularly gleeful when I can allude to Papal infallibility with the circumlocution 'ex cathedra.' It's more satisfying than merely saying 'pontification.'
:silly: :party:

[Jazzgirl]

139. I admit it!

I had to go to the dictionary to find out what it meant but it is "apropo". :-)

[Maraya1969]

143. I have to look up words a lot from this forum. But I suppose that is a good thing.

[TexasObserver]

151. I wish I was in ipse dixit, hooray! hooray!

Southern Strategery

[msallied]

173. Whether it's ipsedixitism or just plain sophism, it's incredibly annoying. lol

[endarkenment]

12. WTF: it is against the rules to call out other posters directly.

The search button is right up at the top there. use it.

[LoZoccolo]

13. I don't think I broke any rules though.

I was just pointing out that I'm typically told to go look for them myself and giving an example to show that.

[endarkenment]

20. In this case there is a reason why you have to go look yourself.

Go look yourself. Your thesis is wrong.

[LoZoccolo]

23. I just looked and I wasn't able to find anything.

Now I'm really confident in what I said, because I looked on all of Google for it and there was still none.

[endarkenment]

37. Fine. Your theory is false.

"What are we going to do about this? I'm all for big tent and all, but I don't share much with those who will deliberately sell the country down the river over a cult of personality being actively waged by a desperate egomaniac.

Bill's legacy is all but gone, and that is a crime. I guess this was the ultimate way for her to get back at Bill for his philandering. What a bitch.

Personally, I think this campaign will hamper any and all women who may wish to run for president for a generation or two."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3333816&mesg_id=3333851

[Runcible Spoon]

166. WOW is that the best you can do?!

it's dubious and highly contested whether or not using the word "bitch" is sexist. Most people with half a brain will tell you it is context, context, context. The usual response is to talk about the word "nigger" and compare it to bitch. Ensuing arguments about whether or not it's racist to type "nigger" instead of "ni**er" continue and someone points out the use of the word "nigger" by communities of color and say that it has been reappropriated to dismantle its power. others point out that you could write "Hillary is a bitch" while it would be extremely taboo to type "Obama is a nigger". Poster responds that "bitch" is not a blanket insult against all women, it is used to devalue a woman who does not fit standard ideals about femininity; "nigger" is term that denigrates African Americans because the term signifies that being black is low and bad de facto. And so and so on.

However, calling her a bitch is NOT just plain sexist. Especially coming from a poster who obviously cares about women's rights as signified by the sentiment that Clinton is doing a misservive to all future women who wish to run for high office.

If you felt so strongly about this. I'm hoping you can dig up better examples. If you make a statement, the burden of proof is upon YOU to prove them when challenged. Someone who is skilled in arguments will provide the proof in conjunction with the initial statement.

[grantcart]

88. did your really really really look hard lol I just wanted to save the idiots the time

if it was so easy they could find it themselves.

[havocmom]

44. There IS a difference between calling out and pointing out the evidence someone provides by themself

When some clown takes the bait and proves the point, not the same as calling out specific clowns without their willing participation.

[endarkenment]

52. The OP is not interested in proof.

His mind's made up and that is that.


"What are we going to do about this? I'm all for big tent and all, but I don't share much with those who will deliberately sell the country down the river over a cult of personality being actively waged by a desperate egomaniac.

Bill's legacy is all but gone, and that is a crime. I guess this was the ultimate way for her to get back at Bill for his philandering. What a bitch.

Personally, I think this campaign will hamper any and all women who may wish to run for president for a generation or two."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[havocmom]

56. OP pointing out no one has offered proof of real sexism

And I agree with you that Hillary has thwarted many women's political futures by running a bad campaign then blaming others for her problems.

[endarkenment]

57. Whatever.

This just devolves into what is real sexism and that is a matter of opinion. There were lots of nasty gender specific remarks made about Clinton. Proof has been offered.

[Runcible Spoon]

169. Sexism really has nothing to do with the essentialism of gender, ya know.

it's OK, it's a common misperception. I think your heart is in the right place, but you're making mountains from molehills.

Sexism, as any "ism" is about power constructs and social hierarchies of relationships. I do not think that calling Clinton a "bitch" is sexist unless it is done by someone who has a position of power over her. I can't think of a single person in the world that has real power over her; perhaps her father or her husband do but I don't know much of their personal relationships. Now if Clinton called a lowly staffer a bitch, she would be bringing a power dynamic into the situation.

As such, it is meaningfully empty. That's why a black man may call another black man "nigger/nigga" and it is largely socially acceptable, whereas a white man would rightfully be called a racist. It is intimately tied to issues of power and social position, NOT gender and ethnicity.

[ClassWarrior]

172. Thanks. Well said.

:toast:

NGU.

[sakura]

131. Is this sexist?

Those feminists at Bitch magazine are in trouble, then.

Seems to me there's a generational divide with respect to the B word. Some third wave feminists are doing their best to take back the word, as homosexuals did with the word "gay." Tina Fey's expression "Bitch is the new black," is a good example. The word "bitch" connotes power. The negative connotation is that many still don't believe women should have power. Therefore a woman with power is threatening and needs to be put down. The positive connotation is this-- "Call me a bitch if you like. All you are doing is acknowledging that I have power and I won't play by the traditional rules for females you expect."

Personally, I have no problem with the B word. In fact, I rather like it.

[Runcible Spoon]

170. exactly.

that's very close to how I feel about it too.

[grantcart]

85. he simply said that was a typical response

its only 'calling out' if you accept that it was a dumb ass statement.

Are you calling that statement 'dumb ass'?

If you are you would

a) be correct and

b) be calling that poster out

[dchill]

177. "he said it himself"

:shrug:

[Barack_America]

2. I've seen some pretty nasty threads...

From "Obama supporters"

But rarely do I recognize the names, and strongly suspect that most of them are trolls.

[jgraz]

119. In fairness, there have been more than a few sexist epithets thrown around

I think "bitch" is inherently sexist, but I'll allow for a few slip-ups during the heat of the campaign. Sadly, that word is so common in our culture that it comes to the fore pretty easily when someone is pissed off at a woman. Doesn't make it right, just makes it understandable. My standard response is to alert the post and ask the offender to calm down and choose their words more carefully.

On the other hand, I've yet to see any sexist code words being thrown about that even come close to the race-baiting we've seen on this board. No one has accused Hillary of hating men the way people have accused the Obamas of hating "whitey". Hillary has not been accused having stereotypical "female" traits anywhere near as often as Obama has been accused of being a trickster, a bamboozler, being lazy or even "uppity". It's disgraceful, and I look forward to the day when DU's serial race-baiters either get with the program or get a granite pizza.

[Bake]

124. Wrong. I've seen "uppity" used EXCLUSIVELY by Obama supporters

Trying to bait someone into an ehtnic slur. In fact, I seem to recall YOU doing that.

On the other hand, I have seen two extremely offensive terms used in connection with HRC: C***T and Clintoris. Both times, the posts were deleted by the mods, but stayed up long enough for many to see. OP conveniently ignores those, and I pointed them out in the thread in which he originally made his challenge. He has yet to respond.

Bake

[jgraz]

127. I guess you're the definitive expert on the totality of DU posts

Most Obama haters don't have the stones to come right out and use the word. That doesn't stop them from hinting at it.

[Bake]

134. Nobody has said that! Hinting or otherwise

Much as you'd like for someone to have called him "uppity," no one has. Further, no one but Obama supporters has used the N word, and the ones that did (and these are damn few, fortunately) were doing it as flamebait.

Hillary, on the other hand, has been called outright every name in the book and some that aren't even IN the book.

Tell me I'm lying. You know it's true.

Bake

[jgraz]

137. You're not lying, you're just wrong

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5733746&mesg_id=5741147

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4777209&mesg_id=4777381

On the second link, note the :-) from one of our most prominent Hillary supporters. He gets the meaning.

[emilyg]

164. Some of those nasty threads were from

the "regulars."

[LTR]

4. That's not true

Geraldine Ferraro told me so.

[endarkenment]

5. There have been some nasty sexist attacks here on DU.

Just not a lot, and certainly no organized effort from the Obama campaign to dogwhistle about her gender and electability.

The remarks of a few internet idiots are conflated here deliberately with the Obama campaign. They have to do this as the Clinton campaign really did attempt to make the argument that Obama's race was going to lose the election, and they weren't exactly subtle about it either.

[LoZoccolo]

6. No there hasn't.

There has not been one.

[havocmom]

8. Some still do not grasp that criticism of HRC is NOT sexism

Thanks for trying to point it out, but we beat our heads against the wall of failure at critical thinking on the part of the 21%ers.

[endarkenment]

10. There has been name calling and it has been ugly.

That is a form of criticism that is generally indefensible.

[havocmom]

36. Yep, name calling from both groups

still not the same as sexism

HRC supporters using that label for everyone who didn't agree with them has done REAL damage. Throwing words around capriciously diminishes meaning. HRC supporters who compared her loses to blacks being sent to back of the bus was ludicrous AND dismissive of the real victims of racism and public tacit acceptance of it. When they drew an analogy between her loses and the Holocaust, that was just too much and they deserved every bit of crap thrown at them for that heinous and ridiculous attempt to make their hurt feelings seem more than what they really were.

Hillary said it: if you can't take the heat.... She should practice what she preaches and some of her rabid supporters need to get a dose of reality. THEY are not like Rosa Park nor are they Holocaust victims.

[endarkenment]

39. I partially agree with that.

Most of the threads (that still exist) are from Clinton supporters complaining about the use of bitch and cunt. Very few threads appear to actually use those terms against Clinton. On the other hand, Ferraro appears to be an acceptible target. However I think that calling a woman political candidate a bitch in a public forum is a minor sexist abuse best avoided, and certainly calling a woman a cunt is just plain unacceptable, at least outside the British Isles. Claiming, as the OP did, that nothing like this ever happened is obtuse at best.

[polmaven]

34. Just as

criticism of Senator Obama is not automatically racism.

[havocmom]

43. Correct. Also, groundless charges of racism not as common as the sexism charge has been

Have seen threads were a handful of shills branded every single remark made showing disfavor of HRC as sexist. That is just plain STOOOOPID. And makes the word meaningless.

Don't call rape unless there's been a real attack. It makes live harder for the real victims of rape. Same goes with calling sexism over every perceived disagreement. Too many of us have dealt with REAL sexism in life to put up with having our experiences disparaged by misuse of the charge.

[polmaven]

54. In the past couple of months

there is barely a thread here that does not, at some point, make a charge of racism.

I actually see many fewer charges of sexism in GD-P.

[endarkenment]

9. Sure there have.

She certainly has been called a bitch, and I believe she has been called a cunt. The cunt references have likely been deleted by the mods, so we can't validate that, but bitch is most likely verifiable.

Results 1 - 10 of about 33,800 from democraticunderground.com for clinton bitch

I am sure there is something relevant there.

[LoZoccolo]

15. That is the Internet and also, we don't know the tone of those posts.

The post you just posted right here would show up in the search and it is not misogynist.

[endarkenment]

21. No it is DU. The DU google search can limit itself to DU.

You are now obtusely wallowing in ignorance. Use the tool.

[LoZoccolo]

26. If I searched for "Hillary bitch", your post would show up.

That should tell you that a "Hillary bitch" post is not necessarily misogynist.

[endarkenment]

27. Yes of course - so you have to sample a few to find the falsification

of your thesis. Do a little of the leg work yourself. Sheesh.

[LoZoccolo]

28. I did.

Now I looked on both Google and AltaVista (Ask.com is next) and there was still none anywhere on the Internet.

[emilyg]

165. Yes there has.

I've alerted on quite a few.

[Forkboy]

7. I've seen some ugly shit that's been deleted here.

One ex-DUer, CitizenRob, had a big exchange with MonkeyFunk and I where he kept saying he agreed with people who called Hillary a cunt. He started a thread claiming he was sick of not being able to use words like "bitch" and "cunt" to describe her (then later tried to claim it was a joke, but it was clear from the exchange with MF and I that it wasn't a joke at all). It's what got him tombstoned. And I've seen other stuff here as well.

While there's hasn't been as much sexism as some of her supporters like to claim, acting like there's been none at all is equally foolish.

[Midlodemocrat]

18. Yeah, I remember that. It was pretty horrible.

And, a lot of stuff has been deleted and rightly so.

[niyad]

14. looks like somebody struck a nerve. guilty conscience?

[LoZoccolo]

16. That's not always a valid explanation for people getting sick of baseless inundation. n/t

[niyad]

19. perhaps not, but in many cases, it fits perfectly.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

17. There has been a small handful of them.

Fortunately, most of the posts were deleted and/or the troll was TSed.

[MonkeyFunk]

22. None? Ever?

Not even the person who got TS'ed last night for repeatedly calling Clinton a cunt?

Or the person who said that Ferraro "deserved to be kicked in the cunt"?

Those don't count?

Yet another LoZoccolo specialty - a totally pointless thread based on lies.

[LoZoccolo]

24. That was some anonymous stuff, we don't know if that person was a Republican.

There is no reputation attached to an anonymous Internet user. On the other hand, we have documented taped footage of Hillary supporters saying racist and bigoted things despite what it would do to their reputation.

Men have their own gender-specific curse words directed overwhelmingly at them that mean the same things, such as "prick", but that whole debate is tired.

[SwampG8r]

40. itstrue that men

have genderbased curse words
the difference is women hardly ever need to use genitalia to describe the failures of others
my wife will call another woman a cunt but that other woman has to be sooooo far over the line that bitch wont cut it
and she is always ashamd of herself when she says it even though provoked


i myself have never understood how it became a term of derision
as it is one of my favorite girl parts

[endarkenment]

55. The term prick is commonplace

widely used hardly remarkable. Cunt is used exactly the same way in England. Here we have a huge difference in usage. Call somebody a cunt and everything comes to a screeching halt. I have never quite understood why the difference in usage and meaning exists in our brand of english, but it most certainly does.

[boppers]

168. "the difference is women hardly ever need to use genitalia to describe the failures of others"

I'm not sure that's entirely true:
"He's a prick", "What a wanker", "He's a jerk", "What a jerk-off", "He's a dickhead", to name but a few of the PG-13 ones...

Perhaps I missed your point, or perhaps I hang out with slightly surlier women?

[SwampG8r]

174. maybe i should have said "female genitalia"

and there are NO surlier women than those with which i hang

[SwampG8r]

41. hillary isnt

and ferraro shouldnt

now does my saying that in the same forum carry the same weight with you as the TSed guy?

[MonkeyFunk]

179. The question at hand

was LoZoccolo's absolutely insane assertion that there are NO cases of misogyny by Obama supporters. It's clearly a blatant lie, and I was pointing that out.

But then, I just had to look at who posted it to know that.

[sandnsea]

25. I alerted on one last night

Somebody had a graphic with Hillary and some reference to bitch that was completely gratuitous.

[Marie26]

29. Oh puh-lease.

There's never ever been a misogynist Obama supporter? It's all just delusional? THAT's delusional. There's sexist Obama supporters just as there are sexist people in the general population.

[LoZoccolo]

30. There hasn't. I looked on Google.

Maybe you could point us to something that Google can't find, but I looked on Google.

[Marie26]

32. This is silly

I don't even know what you're trying to prove. Do you mean a google on DU? Or in the media? Or the entire world? People have even tried to point you to Google results, but you'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.

[LoZoccolo]

33. I mean a Google on the entire world.

I'm hoping someone can give me a link. YouTube would be best because we'd know who it is rather than just some anonymous joker. I can give you the Hillary supporters if you want.

[Marie26]

45. Here's a handy guide:

A Brief (But Timely) Guide to Misogyny, by Pamela Troy - http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Pamela%20Troy/35

If you watch a Youtube video of Hillary, the comments are often incredibly misogynistic, w/the b word & the c word & on & on it goes. At this point I'm just concluding that this is OP is just flamebait, not any kind of honest question.

[LoZoccolo]

47. I am talking about Obama supporters. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

31. And AltaVista too. n/t

[crankychatter]

35. I've restrained myself but I've made some inappropriate comments

I'm just a fat old guy, first and foremost

an Obama supporter second

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water... everyone isn't as cranky and unhip as I am

I hope women and other Clinton supporters will forgive and continue to do the fine job they do of pulling my awareness up... of educating the old guy

peace out ya'all

[Forkboy]

38. Anybody else getting tired of worrying about offending feminists?

CitizenRob (834 posts) Tue Apr-01-08 10:34 PM
Original message
Anybody else getting tired of worrying about offending feminists?

You know, a lot of terms accurately describe Hillary that feminists are super easily offended by. Anybody else getting tired of not using these appropriately descriptive words to describe her? I know I am. (I'm referring of course to words like bitch, cunt, whore, etc...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5345512

Now, if you want to shift the goalposts and remove the word "supporters" from your Op you might have a better argument. As it is, you're being foolish, disingenuous, and simply out of touch with reality, something most of us here are already used to.

[endarkenment]

42. Not really. I can adjust my language.

It seems a trivial thing to do to avoid misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

[Forkboy]

50. I agree.

The OP of the post I was quoting didn't.

[endarkenment]

53. Sorry I misunderstood your post.

[mtnsnake]

46. Nice to see you were proven so wrong AGAIN and so quickly

Nice try at adding to the divisiveness as you always do. Your MO is obvious.

[LoZoccolo]

48. Still no one has given me a link.

Yet you and I both know I could give you three links of people staking their reputation by going to the national news and using their real names as Hillary supporters and saying racist, bigoted, or just crazy McCain-supporting things.

[endarkenment]

49. You have got to be kidding.

While the op is just wrong about this, you carrying on about divisiveness is, to put it mildly, more than a bit hypocritical. See your recent OP, for example. Go take the summer off. You need to rethink.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

59. I'm the one who is being divisive? n/t

[Blue-Jay]

51. That's not true and you know it.

That said, there have been posters who have tried to ascribe the few misogynistic posts as being indicative of "Obama Supporters" as a whole. That is also a big fat lie.

[LoZoccolo]

60. Still waiting for someone to post an awesome link that 0wns my assertion. n/t

[Blue-Jay]

61. I'm not your dancing monkey.

I'm guessing that the majority of "bitch" "witch" & "cunt" posts have been scrubbed by the mods, and rightly so.

[LoZoccolo]

62. There is not one documented incident of a misogynistic Obama supporter.

There is real life outside of DU too. I can give you links to racist, bigoted, and McCain-supporting Hillary supporters that have been interviewed on camera.

[Bleacher Creature]

66. This is getting kind of funny. Has anyone pointed to any tangible evidence yet?

[LoZoccolo]

71. I haven't seen any.

Even if these posts didn't get deleted, they are still on the Internet and could have been posted by anyone. On TV, though, we've seen Hillary supporters willing to stake their non-anonymous public reputations on saying racist, bigoted, or McCain-supporting things to whoever happens to be watching.

[MonkeyFunk]

158. How can we?

The actual posts calling her a cunt have been deleted, and LoZoccolo simply says anybody who posted that isn't a real Obama supporter.

it's the No True Scotsman logical fallacy, and by his inane rules, it would be impossible to satisfy his demand. Anything we offer is either dismissed as not misogynistic, or not from an obama supporter.

This is just another one of his flamebait threads. in all the years here, he's never posted anything that wasnt' meant to incite, inflame and divide. it's performance art for him.

[Blue-Jay]

67. OK, Junior.

[apocalypsehow]

70. So, no proof, just blanket assertions, eh? AS USUAL.

:thumbsdown:

[Blue-Jay]

99. Who the fuck are you talking to?

I've been an unapologetic supporter of Sen Obama since the beginning, but I'd be lying if I said that I haven't seen a few bitch/witch/cunt posts directed at her. Stick that "thumbsdown" in your ass.

[apocalypsehow]

120. So, *STILL* no proof, and this time some juvenile personal attacks. Typical.

:eyes:

[Blue-Jay]

123. "juvenile personal attacks"? Like "binky"?

[apocalypsehow]

121. Mommy must have forgotten to warm up someone's binky this morning...

:rofl:

[billyoc]

63. mathogynist!

:rofl:

[LoZoccolo]

64. lol n/t

[apocalypsehow]

68. Last night when the *ignore* function was down, my one *ignored* POS serial liar/stalker was running

around here with a thread that claimed someone used the "C" word last night in GD: P. They hadn't - she'd just made that shit up, as usual - but it was quite amusing to see how calls for proof of this were handled. Not a single link could be provided that proved this so-called wave of misogyny which was supposedly rolling across DU - not one.

Just snide "Google is your friend" and "learn how to use search" was all that could be mustered in response to "link? or "got proof?" I suspect you'll run into much the same here.

[LoZoccolo]

73. The thing is too that I used both Google, AltaVista, AND Ask.com.

I could not find one instance on the entire Internet, so I don't know what they are talking about use Google for.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

69. How about this small sample of some very sexist comments

I got these from a small window of time on this board. They are not even the worst comments I've seen. Some of them may be from women - and in their cases - I guess you would have to term it "self-loathing":


About her supporters:

liars and freaks and socipaths.
Stupid hillarhoids!
don't include me in this sow brigade




About Hillary:

She really is a dumb bitch.
DOUCHEBAG FOR LIBERTY. She's a sick friggin' Ghoul of a person..who I think might just be bordering on a nervous breakdown.

Se 'Ya in the Discount Rack, Toots!
She is such a fucking loathsome human being.
She's totally irrelevant and desparate.

It's about a sociopathic, dangerous quest for power by a delusional woman whose enablers are too afraid to reason with her.

She is Disgusting
You've got the dread disease of CLINTOPHOBIA!
delusional
she was running as a Republican
her arrogance, her hawkishness,and her lies




Bill Clinton:

Bill Clinton is a disappointment and an embarrassment

man I greatly admired and DEFENDED time and time again after he blatantly lied

Maybe Paula , Jennifer,or Monica could help!
He the one talking out the back of pick-up trucks

[apocalypsehow]

72. Not all that surprised that you can't provide a link to those comments. I suspect they were typed

by the person who posted them in this thread. Post a link and prove me wrong.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

74. They are REAL posts. You could do a search yourself in the search function...

I can't blame you for wanting to distance yourself from the comments, however. Shows you must have some measure of decency.

[apocalypsehow]

76. About what I figured. But I'll try again: POST US A LINK AND PROVE ME WRONG.

I won't be holding my breath...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

82. You are not allowed to post links to posts.

n/t

[apocalypsehow]

86. That's a novel way of wiggling out of the requirement for evidence, but it's false. But in any event

you are allowed to post links to threads, so how about linking us up to the threads these (non-existent) posts were supposedly in? :shrug:

I think we know why you won't....

[apocalypsehow]

92. I've just taken a casual look over the relevant DU rules, and don't see a thing about not linking to

posts. How about a link to the section of the rules that states you cannot post a link to a post? And I'm still waiting on a link to the thread(s) in question, which, no matter what the rules on links to individual posts is very much allowed. How about it? :shrug:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

103. I just googled the top two comments that I had listed and they both showed up.

Maybe you need to take some computer classes....

[apocalypsehow]

106. Maybe you need to take some reading classes. I'm not interested in what you "googled": I'm

interested in links. Post some, please. Is that really so hard to comprehend? Do I need to get out my kid's crayons and draw you big 'ole pretty pictures?

POST. LINKS. PLEASE.

:eyes:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

163. Are you slow or just a diva?

Go to google, put the words into the search box and viola - you will see what you need.

[apocalypsehow]

175. So, you *REFUSE* to post proof of your (false) assertions. Gotcha.

Why didn't you just say so to begin with?

:eyes:

[apocalypsehow]

176. And you act like an ass while refusing to provide said proof. Typical.

:thumbsdown:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

are you trying to get me kicked off the board?

n/t

[apocalypsehow]

95. No, I'm trying to get you to post proof of your dubious claims. This you refuse to do, which is very

telling as regards the veracity of your statements. And drop the phony baloney stuff: no one is going to "kick" you off of anything for providing links to proof of your (false) assertions.

[LoZoccolo]

78. I did a search both of DU and of the entire Internet.

Those were nowhere to be found.

[LoZoccolo]

77. Only two of those even approach sexism.

And because you try to pass the rest off as sexism, I do not believe you that the rest were even here.

[apocalypsehow]

81. My thoughts exactly. n/t.

[lightningandsnow]

94. Stupid? Yes. Insulting? Yes. Sexist? Not quite.

I dunno, maybe I'm missing something.

Looks mostly like generic nastiness to me.

[Runcible Spoon]

171. agreed, and I talked about my feelings on "bitch" upthread.

hi Aspie!

[frickaline]

75. absense of proof is not proof of absense.

As the good William Cowper would tell you.

[apocalypsehow]

79. Absinthe isn't good for you - way too stout (not to mention illegal in the U.S.).

Ease up. :crazy:

[frickaline]

87. Yeah that logic stuff always gets in the way doesn't it?

Life is so much easier if we don't need to base our opinions on facts and logic. :sarcasm:

[apocalypsehow]

90. You haven't posted a stitch of evidence - and your silly post was the very definition of

one lacking in "facts" and "logic."

[frickaline]

91. you whole argument is without merit and lacking in logic

why would anyone be tempted to post anything other than this?

[apocalypsehow]

93. I'm not making any "argument": I'm asking for proof that such posts/sentiment exists. And all you

and your pals can do is simper around about "the rules" and insist that everyone just take you at your word, sans concrete evidence/proof. But go ahead and whimper some more: your case gets more laughable with each and every succeeding post.

:nopity:

[frickaline]

97. my pals? who might they be?

Please do enlighten me.

And what "word" might I ask would you be referring to? Please speak all my assertions for me if you dare.

[apocalypsehow]

101. I love it when the "I'm going to feign that I'm totally obtuse" act begins. Still waiting on a link

to some proof - looks like I'll be waiting a good long time.

[frickaline]

105. Wikipedia refers to your argument as "Argument from ignorance"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

That is what I'm trying to tell you, but it seems you are incapable of reason.

What is the use of delivering proof against a flawed argument?

[apocalypsehow]

107. Common sense refers to your posts as "silly": they are unrelated to anything that has been posted

your way. But do keep trying - I'll keep laughing.

[apocalypsehow]

108. And while we're at it, if you have an IQ just large enough to master how to post links, how about a

link to these sexist posts that are supposedly ubiquitous on DU? :eyes:

[frickaline]

109. How is refuting the logic of your OP unrelated?

No really, this is just getting good, please do tell. :popcorn:

[apocalypsehow]

113. You say posting an antiquated quote somehow "refutes" something? LOL!

I'd get that checked out.

:rofl:

[frickaline]

114. No the posting of commonly accepted logic, does.

I'm really sorry that you can't accept when you are wrong. And I'm sorry you can't understand the fallacy you have posted here. You can argue with logic all day if you like, but the end result is the same.

Logic always wins.

[apocalypsehow]

116. "the posting of commonly accepted logic" - LOL. Pitiful.

"Logic always wins"

Yep - and you're on the losing side of it this time out. Do give it anothe whirl sometime.

[apocalypsehow]

111. Ah, I love it: "I won't give you proof because I can't comprehend your argument."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Talk about yer logical fallacies....

[frickaline]

112. I'm afraid it is you that failed to comprehend your own argument.

And I'm more sorry that you cannot figure that out.

[apocalypsehow]

115. I'm afraid it is you that has failed to post one relevant fact on point since this discussion began.

Please try again.

[Mezzo]

80. just brush it off your shoulder and say she's nice enough. No worries. She's just a fucking whore.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

84. Thanks for the proof of misogyny: "She's just a fucking whore"

n/t

[apocalypsehow]

100. Hey genius: that poster is a Hillary supporter. She thinks she's being cute/ironic by posting that

nonsense.

[lightningandsnow]

96. Now that, my dear, IS sexism.

[Mass]

102. So any criticism addressed to a woman is sexist? Come on. The last one is what Bush and Cheney are

called every day here, and the two other ones are definitively not sexist. They may not be nice, but where are they sexist.

There has been sexist attacks on DU, I agree, but none of those you quote are part of that.

[muryan]

155. If you understood what brushing your shoulder off actually meant

you wouldnt attribute it to sexism. Thats just ignorance

[deathdog]

83. Two words: Father Pfleger. nt

[apocalypsehow]

89. I wasn't aware Pfleger posted here. Do you know what nick he posts under?

:eyes:

[lightningandsnow]

98. Ehh, not quite.

I'm an Obama supporter myself, but the "bitch"/"whore"/"skank"/"Shrillary" comments?

Not. Fucking. Okay.

[apocalypsehow]

104. Ehh, quite. Read the OP again. A wee bit slower this time. Then post us some links. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[lightningandsnow]

110. Here ya go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5914423&mesg_id=5916155

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4741016#4741074

[apocalypsehow]

117. Your first post was to a tombstoned troll with a whole 212 post under its belt. The second was to a

female poster from Canada - hardly a bastion of reactionary politics. That's hardly a very impressive "proof" of a wave of misogyny endemic to DU.

:eyes:

[EstimatedProphet]

178. So?

Wasn't the OP that there is no documented sexist attacks on Hillary? Does it matter that the first one was a troll, and the second one was Canadian? It shouldn't, based on he OP language. That was the point of the poster upthread talking about the logical fallacy.

[onehandle]

122. Red Herring. It's against DU rules to call out DUers. nt

[Beaverhausen]

125. A lot of them were deleted as they used lovely language to describe her

[Beaverhausen]

126. here's one whole dang thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4718137

[Beaverhausen]

128. and another

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3963241

[Beaverhausen]

133. and another - not that you will bother to look.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4720038

[apocalypsehow]

148. I appreciate the actual posted content, instead of just blanket claims not backed up with proof.

This one was posted by a female OP, and that makes charges of "misogyny" suspect to me right off the bat. It may be many things - catty, condescending, stereotypical, etc., etc. (and please note I'm not saying it was any of those things, just that a case could perhaps be made) - but I was hard-pressed to find any "misogyny" in the thread. Even most of the replies, though perhaps immature, seemed to me to stay out of an outright sexist groove.

I have now weighed the "misogyny" claims in these threads and have found them wanting. I'll be interested to see if you have any counter-input. And, oh yeah, do you have any newer threads as an example of the topic under discussion? These all stretched back to Jan.-Feb. Thanks.

[apocalypsehow]

146. This thread was much easier to follow for some reason, probably the relative lack of sub-threads.

I remember what this OP was about (or the incident it referred to, I don't remember the specific OP itself). This one turns on how one views the use of such phrases as "shrill" and whether we would call a male acting that way's behavior "crazy." Perhaps not so much on the former point, but for sure on the latter: I see it all the time here referring to any number of male political figures.

I can see how someone sensitive to gender issues might have a problem with that particular OP - and some of the replies certainly did not cover themselves in glory. But "misogynistic"? Let me post the dictionary definition of "misogyny" not to patronize you but just so we all are aware of just what we are accusing someone of when we accuse them of it:

"misogyny


Main Entry:
mi·sog·y·ny Listen to the pronunciation of misogyny
Pronunciation:
\mə-ˈsä-jə-nē\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Greek misogynia, from misein to hate + gynē woman — more at queen
Date:
circa 1656

: a hatred of women"

"A hatred of women."

Do you really think anything in that thread rises to that level?

[Beaverhausen]

153. You don't think there are women who hate other women?

I know plenty. And there was plenty of that in those threads.

[apocalypsehow]

145. Okay, now we're getting somewhere - someone actually posted content. I've just worked my way through

the thread, and here's my observations on this first "proof" that misogyny is running amok at DU:

1. The first two-thirds of that thread is basically chatty banter back and forth about lighting, makeup, etc., etc., with the occasional disapproving post about the entire OP thrown in. Most of the people participating in that part of the thread have profiles that list them as females.

2. The final third of the thread has many more critical comments about the OP being posted in the first place, and here's the funny thing: most of the critical comments are from Obama supporters! My rough count shows the ratio was about five to one in that category.

3. Some of the replies may well have been in poor taste and a bit tacky, but I think it's a stretch to call it misogyny. ***Note I didn't say there wasn't some sexism involved: all misogyny is sexist but not all sexism is misogynistic*** Indeed, the OP himself went to great pains to say he didn't mean the thread as some kind of "slam."

So, tacky, in poor taste, and with some sexist posts in the body of the thread? Sure. Out and out misogynistic? I don't think so.

[McCamy Taylor]

129. Warning this is a Divide and Conquer thread trying to stir up hatred between Dems

Do not fall for the bait by giving him what he wants which is flamebait.

[LoZoccolo]

132. What would you then call the original accusations of sexism?

Sorry, not gonna let that go.

[rodeodance]

138. i call you being too lazy to do your own research. and you look foolish now.

[Beaverhausen]

141. I posted three threads above. Are you going to respond?

doubt it.

[frickaline]

142. Didn't you know?

What he doesn't see, doesn't exist.

[LoZoccolo]

147. That is all Internet junk.

I could give you video footage of people saying things that they were so proud of that they told network and/or cable television. Plus shrill == sexist isn't quite as established as woman-on-TV-saying-she-won't-vote-for-Obama-because-he's-"the other race" == racist as all get-out.

[LoZoccolo]

149. Besides, if Hillary were not trying to impress people with how she dressed...

...she would be wearing a lab coat. The same goes for Obama.

[ccharles000]

130. Most Obama suppoters are very nice.

Some have called Hillary the b and c words.

[Jersey Devil]

135. I confess to being a mashuganist

I can't help it. It's the devil in me.

[rucky]

140. I've seen a couple.

I'm not keeping a scrapbook or anything, and it doesn't take away from the batshit craziness and all-around nastiness of the people who think we're all a part of a frat-boy circle jerk.

[Maddy McCall]

144. Sure there has. And mods quickly delete them, usually. Thanks mods.

And even the most honorable Obama supporters will tell you that there have been, and those good Obama supporters quickly admonish the most deplorable among you.

[KoKo]

154. Well..........

I had you on "ignore" until a glitch took you off. Methinks maybe you were on Ignore..for a reason.

:eyes: not saying...but my suspicions might just be true...

[Geek_Girl]

156. There was one just a minute ago and the Mods locked it

it had to do with Pant suits.

[Buzz Clik]

157. I have it on good authority that I am a misogynist.

A Clinton supporter told me.

[Darth_Kitten]

159. You tube? You tube?

Don't people light their farts on fire on Youtube?

[LoZoccolo]

160. It is a republication of news reports. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

161. Here's some clips that were aired...on the NEWS.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=168561

[Mushroom]

162. I found one in under a minute

"There is not one documented incident of a misogynistic Obama supporter.
Posted by LoZoccolo

I've asked for them, but all I've gotten so far are the "ha ha" and "you are blind" responses. I can give then Hillary-supporter racism and religious bigotry right on YouTube, but so far they have produced nothing other than vague speculations about someone's "real" intentions."

[Asider23]

167. I don't get it

How is that misogny?

[TexasObserver]

180. No, you didn't. Didn't find one, and can't find one.

Are you down to your last sock puppet?!