Let's talk Democratic unity.

[Cascadian]

I have never seen so much mud-slinging and divisiveness within the Democratic Party in the time I have been voting (since 1992). I am really wondering if the party will come together and support the nominee whoever he or she is? Or will it be a ruckus to the end? Who will drop out and endorse the frontrunner?


My biggest concern is that this in-fighting is going to benefit Rove and the Repugnants in the end. I hope that is not the case.

John

[hippiechick]

1. I mentioned this earlier today ....

sorta ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=983356&mesg_id=983356


Discussion didn't go very far. :( Seems we're more content
at this point to tear each other apart than to look toward
the ultimate goal of next November.

:hippie:

[asjr]

4. No,no

I have been against Dem bashing Dem from the first debate. We shouldn't be doing the Republicans work for them. I have liked all the candidates from the beginning and was heart-sick to see this stuff start. I can't figure out why they do it. Civility used to be ours. Abandoning it just makes it harder. If my candidate doesn't get the nomination, I will vote for the one who does. Too much is at stake here. I know I am preaching to the choir and many feel the way I do, but it so disheartening.

[citizen snips]

2. You can blame it on Lieberman.

I feel that Lieberman, Gephardt, and Kerry are the ones to blame. They have always attacked Dean.

[Turtleboy22]

19. Attacks

go both ways, right?

The attacks ON Lieberman are just as bad, right?

[mouse7]

20. BWA-HA-HA-HA... you're kidding right?

Personally, I'd completely ignore the twit. However, responding with both barrels to Lieberman's crap is a legitimate second option.

[Rowdyboy]

3. Not a vote has been cast yet

We'll pick a nominee and then there'll be 5 or 6 months to get united before the convention. I started voting in 1972 and I can assure you, there have been nastier presidential primaries...

However, there will be a few disgruntled losers who refuse to realize how important it is to get rid of Bush. Just learn to accept it and move on. They're beyond our help.

[democratreformed]

5. I appreciate the historical

perspective from those of you who have "been there". It gives me hope to know that this has happened before without disastrous results.

Thanks.

[H2O Man]

13. Actually, it can lead to a disaster......

....in the 1968: there was a president from Texas (yikes!) who actually had a sense of human decency at one time ....but LBJ wanted to win a war on the other side of the globe, and for some reason, he was not able to conceive of the Vietnam war in a larger context ... it took all the $$$ away from his noble plans for a Great Society ... and the country was divided, much like today, really. The young people and a few visionaries on the left got Senator Eugene McCarthy to challenge the "unbeatable" LBJ ... and McCarthy began to show the nation that the Texas giant could be whipped!!! But not by McCarthy. Robert Kennedy joined the race. The intense bitterness between the McCarthy and Kennedy camps was so much like the acrimony between the Dean and Clark folks that it scares me! Because, as we know, the result of the 1968 election was that those people who now run this administration took power. And they have never fully let go. So please listen to me, and listen to me good: we can NOT afford to be divided. I support Clark. But when I saw Dean today, I admired him. Really like Edwards, too! Unity is the state of mind that will help us to beat Bush.

[democratreformed]

17. Thanks for the story n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Interesting...

you posted this while I was typing mine, and I forgot about that particular bit of nastiness.

One other little problem in 1968 was Wallace's run as a third party candidate, and getting 10 million votes.

That was a much bigger split in the Democratic Party than the McCarthy -Kennedy one. Wallace ran in four primaries, and there was a fundamental bitterness in all of them that makes the Dean-Clark folks here look like little kids in the playground. Back then we had Dixiecrats, and they didn't have much in common with the urban northern Democrats except the name. Both sides were thinking of each other as DINOs.

And some think the party is split now?

I hope the DLC/DNC foolishness sorts itself out and that all of the eight losing camps can agree to support the winner, but yeah, we could go into meltdown if one significant camp decides to pick up its marbles and go home.

This will be an interesting year.

On edit--

Johnson didn't run in '68. In March, he stepped down so the Democratic primary battle then no longer involved him directly.

[H2O Man]

37. Yes, he did step down....

...after the great division between the McCarthy & Kennedy camps. The Wallace branch was, of course, significant at that time ... many took a further step to the right, and became the republicans that bush etc appeal to with their racist code words.
The problem was that there were such strong feelings between McCarthy and Kennedy supporters that it allowed Johnson to push Humphrey into the lead... yes, in an under-handed, self-serving way -- Johnson in March and even through April had not completely ruled out being "drafted" -- but of course the re-occuring "lone gunmen" took America off course in early April and June.
My primary concern is that the bitterness between many of the Dean and Clark camps could allow for a weaker candidate to be pushed forward as a compromise. Sorry, Hubert Humphrey, (a decent man), but we are clearly better off with either Dean or Clark. I am convinced that the Rove-types will try to add emotional turmoil to the selection process. Our job is to make sure that doesn't happen. You clearly have a good grasp of history .... I hope that you will continue to educate others on the need for unity!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[democratreformed]

9. BT

[Cascadian]

8. Who do you think will be disgruntled?

I suppose on the front, many of these people who are running will rally around the person who gets ticket, but I believe many will be just chaffing behind the scenes. Especially Lieberman and Kerry in my view.

John

[Rowdyboy]

23. There will be unforgiving supporters

in the camps of all the losing camps. I expect a few Lieberman people will join Zell Miller in Dems for Bush. Some of the Kucinich people will go green. Some of Sharpton's supporters probably won't vote at all.

No particular candidate's supporters are especially likely to desert and I don't think the ones who do will amount to much electorally...

[Cascadian]

27. I have a funny feeling that Lieberman will join Zell Miller.

I honestly think Joe Lieberman would endorse Bush. Of course that would depend on who the Democrats nominate. Anybody else have that feeling?


John

[Rowdyboy]

32. No...I no longer defend Lieberman as I've done in the past

because he has betrayed the party too many times. I do not believe, however, that the vice presidential candidate who lost to Bush/Cheney in 2000 will endorse Bush/Cheney in 2004. If he does, bookmark this pledge, and I'll donate $100 to the candidate of your choice.

[Padraig18]

11. technically not true.

They've been internet voting in Michigan already. :P

[cally]

7. It's worse on DU than

in the real world. I think the party can unify, I wonder about DU. Way too many candidate supporters trash other candidates and worse that candidate's supporters. I would guess that anyone who braves this forum has considered leaving at least a few times this primary season.

I don't think the candidates are doing much more mudslinging than usual. I think it's magnified against Dean since he's the frontrunner and there are 8 other candidates trying to attack him.

[seventhson]

12. The Media is worse than here

But the public is not really fallimg for the claptrap

[dogman]

10. Yes let's unite behind the higher standard of leadership

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Relax...

I've been voting since the '60s, and it's always been like this. Seems worse this year, but that could be an illusion.

The biggest difference this year seems to be the online fighting. Remember, we didn't have this many people online in political forums 11 years ago when Clinton was fighting his way through the primaries. I remember some serious ugliness back when Carter was trying to get the nod, and everyone should remember what Bush did to McCain.

Don't mistake the dozens of extreme partisans here or on other boards with that "silent majority" unheard from. We're pushing 40,000 members here on DU alone, and just how many of them are involved with the battling and sniping?

The candidates are occasionally bashing each other. well, duh! Ever seen a campaign, even a local one, where they didn't go after each others' throats at some point? Politics is a blood sport, and everyone involved expects mud to be slung. Look back into history and see how campaigns were run and see some of the stuff slung aginst FDR, Coolidge, and some of the others. We're actually pretty civilized now, hard as it is to believe.

As far as those comments about us doing the Republicans work for them by bashing candidates here-- don't worry about it. There's nothing we've come up with that they don't already know. They've got paid operatives all over country digging up dirt on these guys, and they'll go into overtime on the winner digging more up. When they start seriously campaigning, it will get uglier than you can imagine.

Just because a slam here shows up on Free Republic a day or two later doesn't mean a thing. Freepers and Republican bloggers by and large are no more tuned into what Republican campaign headquarters is doing than most people here are tuned into Democratic insiders. Lurking here is as good as it gets for them.

Don't worry about the press, either. Back in the good ol' days major chains like Hearst picked a horse and lied regularly to push their candidates and slam the others. Truth be damned in the yellow press. Politics wasn't a place they went to to give us the truth, it was simply a tool to win the circulation wars. Rupert Murdoch is simply adhering to one of the grandest of old journalistic traditions, and the rest of them aren't nearly as bad as they could be.

Lighten up and see it for the game it is. Rugby with audience participation.

[HFishbine]

15. Fear Not the Almighty Rove!

A prediction you can take to the bank, or bet me even money: Rove will have resigned before the republican convention.

Let's do what it takes to field the best candidate now. We'll deal with the aptly named repugnants in the spring.

[laruemtt]

16. guess this is what happens

when dynamic minds meet under a big tent! but much better this than the lockstep repukes. as long as we keep our eyes on the prize and not lose who we are as a party in the process.

[PATRICK]

21. Best field I've ever seen

So the competition is bound to be extreme, as well as nerve wracking for supporters. I have to think back on several primary seasons to assemble a cast to match this one. The smorgasbord of dissatisfaction is the flip side of all this, fueled by the crummy behemoth of the GOP and the freep ress. Candidates are the ones respoinsible for the presentation. Help in "bashing" the other guy is worse than non-productive.

And it's a democratic primary. Work hard to get your candidate presented to the voter(contrast and advantage is inescapable), see how the people decide, back the people's choice, crush Bush and the GOP. The resat is the grumbling of soldiers fighting a common battle, the heartache of loss, the fierce determination to win for what is right. Remember, no one candidate will die as a result of primary destiny, but the lives of all humanity are in the balance if we do not unite.

Get perspective, get focused and relax. Our top candidates should all be president. Pray the people get to choose the best man. It wouldn't hurt to start thinking of our own positive participation: getting out the vote, fund raising(dig deep), newspaper campaigning, canvassing, poll watching, research, etc. etc. etc.

[stickdog]

22. You'd think Democrats would embrace, or at least show some respect for,

a candidate who has broken all previous fundraising records using only small donations from regular Americans.

You'd think Democrats would embrace, or at least show some respect for, a candidate who has generated a large and highly dedicated following of new voters and young voters.

You'd think Democrats would embrace, or at least show some respect for, a candidate who has grown the party a whole new volunteer organization of eager workers in all 50 states.

You'd think Democrats would embrace, or at least show some respect for, a candidate who has already generated the most successful national grassroots campaign in history, completely from scratch, in less than 14 months.

[Rowdyboy]

24. And I'm sure they will

If he wins the primaries and the nomination. Until then, don't expect palm fronds to be laid in front of Dean's donkey. He's not Jebus riding into Jerusalem, he's one of nine candidates. He has made excellent use of the internet and has a dedicated cadre of supporters. Kudo's for that. Now win the nomination and I can join in the joyous adulation, showering him with rose petals and raising ancient anthems to his name.

[stickdog]

25. I'm not talking about Dean worship. I'm talking about crap like comparing

Bush positively to Dean.

You know, whenever some supposed Dem (Lieberman & Kerry come to mind) something that makes you think they'd be happier with four more years of Bush than with Dean as President ...

[Rowdyboy]

33. Both would rather that they were president than Dean

but I can't see why you think they'd prefer Bush to Dean. I don't see that as a fair reading. I am, however, willing to listen..

[Bucky]

26. This year is nothing. The rancor will be forgotten. The party will unify.

I've been hearing the same worries since 1984. The Mondale-Hart-Jackson split was far more divisive than this. We came together and had great turn-out among the base. That's not where our worries should be.

[Zomby Woof]

28. can't we all just get along?

[NV1962]

29. This isn't a WYSIWYG experience

DU isn't "representative" - it's just a plain ole message board, with its inherent dynamics, including flaming, trolls and all.

The jabs among contenders aren't unprecedented, either.

It's all for the top spot: President of the United States of America. If there is an issue worthy of vigorous debate...

Democracy and discrepancy are unavoidable concurrent phenomena. More of one implies strength for the other.

Well, except for acrimony - but that's mostly the realm of desperate people! :)

[arewethereyet]

30. its OK I've seen a lot more and this is not so bad as you think

and better than some.

[flaminbats]

31. The pigs contribute to both parties.

They contribute to the Repukes to acquire our tax dollars, then they spend some of that for a Democratic freak show to get a good laugh from liberals pissing on each other as the voters become even more disillusioned..:(

[Enjolras]

34. The Repugs do the same. It hasn't hurt them

Witness the way the Bush people slandered McCain during the S. Carolina primary. Or even some of Bob Dole's negative ads during the '96 GOP primaries.

There will, of course, be a certain percentage of Dems -- and left-leaning independents like myself -- who would refuse to support what we feel is absolutely the wrong candidate. But fear not, because there always have been. And it's the same on the GOP side. Democracy has survived in spite of it.

How many conservative Repugs stayed home on election day in 1992?

[sandnsea]

35. Let's support the primary process

The only time there's a call for unity is when Dean has made mistakes and is being called on it. That's part of the primary process. Let the primaries work and let people make up their own minds.

[incapsulated]

36. I'm not in the mood

Everybody can fuck off!!! ;)


Besides, DU hardly represents the "real world".

The vast majority of even those on this forum will vote for the nominee, come election day.

The poster who said that there weren't internet forums in primaries before got it right. Go to an online forum discussing the most innocent pastime imaginable, like candlemaking or something, and if it's up long enough, flame wars, cliques, camps and just about everything that goes on here will be there. So, given the fact that there is an actual real-life competition going on, the fighting isn't surprising.