The false assumption that Obama needs to have Clinton as veep in order to win

[Lerkfish]

1. it assumes that democrats will not vote for the nominee in november just because their preferred candidate did not make it to nominee. This is a false premise since if true, all primaries throughout history would have spelled the doom of the party.
2. it presumes that polling for a PRIMARY are analagous to GENERAL ELECTION voting, which is simply not true. The dynamics are vastly different, and are really close to an apple/orange comparison.
3. It presumes that preference for one candidate for president would be equal to preference for that candidate in the veep slot, which is a different position, role and responsibility, and assumes that balancing the ticket is not as important as putting both frontrunners on the ticket. Most people realize that the veep slot is vital in DIFFERENT ways than just rewarding the second place finisher.
4. it presumes that the second place finisher is even compatible with the nominee on issues, personally, or dynamically.

[sfam]

1. Hillary is the only candidate that can divide the Dems and unite the Republicans...

We really shouldn't add her to the ticket. The Republicans would benefit far more than we would. Right now, they just aren't that enthused about McCain. Hillary gives them a reason to come out and vote. Lets let sleeping dogs lie.

[madame defarge]

2. Exactly!

[Mme. Defarge]

9. Couldn't agree more! n/t

[truebrit71]

3. Bingo!!! And at the same time negate EVERYTHING Obama stands for...

...

[blm]

18. Bushprotecting, Closed Government Dems had their decade - they screwed us all over.

Fock them. They can rot with their heads firmly planted up BushInc's ass. It's what they deserve after the betrayed other Democrats and Dem voters for their own miserable need to be aligned with the Bushes.



http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[greguganus]

4. I agree. Hillary needs to slither back to NY. n/t

[Growler]

15. I agree

[XemaSab]

19. Word

n/t

[roguevalley]

20. my thoughts here:

1. women are not a monolith. they are as individual as anyone else and she does not have a monopoly on us. to imply that Hillary controls women or has sway over all the women of America is bullshit. she doesn't. she has the women voting for her, many who do because they recognize her name and many who are because they are voting for a woman in a presidential election campaign. they are no more invested in her, the greater mass of women in this country, than they are in anyone else.

2. people will vote for the nominee no matter who it is. consider that many women voted for hillary because they wanted to vote for a woman president. they were invested in the idea but not to the point of lunacy that you see here and on the blogosphere. This cyberspace we are roaming is not the real world of despair, lost jobs, sick kids, war and no hope. most women have real lives elsewhere and don't see her candidacy as some kind of ovarian crusade. we, here, and probably our families because we are political junkies are not indicative of the rest of America. We are the interested fringe. Women will vote for the nominee because they are dems, independents and know the alternative is disaster. all the screaming in the world doesn't change this FACT. To say otherwise insults millions of women who can think for themselves and will.

3. women got a kick out of voting for a historical candidate but she lost. they will move on in the most profound numbers the same way everyone else has from their first choice. to say otherwise insults their intelligence, maturity and patriotism. the fringes won't but they are numerically insignificant. women who move on will get a chance to vote for ANOTHER HISTORICAL CANDIDATE. and they will. don't let the screechers tell you otherwise. they will. there is NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE.

4. No one I know, even the hillary people are happy with her conduct now and they understand she is trying to kneecap Obama. they have less esteem for Hillary than they had before this started and NONE OF THEM are prepared to vote for her in 2012 if she tries to run again. They find her conduct disgusting, sad and unbecoming of a democrat toward other dems. She won't be forgiven and her place in the senate will be the loneliest place on earth.

5. if by some odd quirk of fate we lose in November, the DEEP and LINGERING analysis will go on and on in the media about the campaigns and SHE WILL GET THE BLAME. Hillary Clinton will get the blame and she will be blamed for every sickening thing that happens in the next four years. She. will. get. the. blame.

6. She will get the blame.

7. She will be blamed.

8. Anyone can moan and whine and scream SEXISM! and LIAR! and DELUSIONAL! but it will be true. Every damned word of it.

Mark my words.

[TexasObserver]

5. All true, but it's exactly the kind of meme that appeals to ignorant, stupid people

And you know who has that constituency in the Democratic primary.

You're right, though, it is a false assumption, and even Senator Pantsuit knows that.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

7. it is a fact

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. it is a fact

[Hola]

10. regional support

If Clinton had run in 2004, she would have won OH, and thus the election. There is a certain segment of the population - in OH, in PA, in FL who like the Clintons, and Hillary. They don't really care for the Dem party or the Dem nominee. The didn't vote for Gore, they didn't vote for Kerry, they won't vote for Obama. They probably didn't vote for Clinton in '92 either, but they did vote for him in '96. They may vote for Obamas second term, but they won't vote for his first.

It's not a huge number, maybe 5-6% of the electorate in those states. But it's enough to swing them. Yes Obama can win without them, but it will be harder. It's a choice - Hillary will hurt him in other parts of the country (West & South), so it depends...

[MattBaggins]

11. I have had a few choice words for Hillary supporters

but the unity ticket is not such a bad idea. Not all of her supporters are the "Obama Haters" that you see on DU and we have to work with her sane supporters. Many ardent Obama folks want to try and dismiss all her voters, but that just ain't gonna happen.

It isn't Obamas VP. It is the Party's and America's VP. If the party decides to give her the nod we need to suck it up just like they do.

That all being said; there is the sad reality that since Texas she has made a complete and utter fool of herself. She may have bit the hand so many times that it is now impossible for to be VP. We also have the problem that in any suggestions of a unity ticket, when her supporters are asked how they intend to repair the damage first, they remain eerily silent. They seem to have the "you have to earn our vote we don't have any responsibility in this mess" attitude. They may actually feel they have the both the right to demand the VP slot; and the audacity to claim that we have to clean up the mess they made as well. (Strange; why am I suddenly getting images of my kids in my head).

[Andy823]

12. Those Clinton supporters

Who put this country ahead of their candidate, will be behind Obama 100%. Those who are not really dems, but republicans who have become dems in order to destroy the party, will continue to make waves and to encourage those who have lost site of the really goal, which is to get the republicans out of office, will continue to try and divide the party, and they will find many who will follow them who have drank the "kool aide" and are to far gone to see the reality of things, but their numbers will not change things.

[Imagevision]

13. I trust and Believe in Obama, I will certainly go with his choice for VP.

[ladjf]

14. I recommend that we remove the Clintons from Democratic

politics.

[WA98296]

16. Thanks for the great points!

[blm]

17. Here's your FIFTH, Lerkfish.

.