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Why Should the Supers go for Obama?

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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:22 AM
Original message
Why Should the Supers go for Obama?
I don't really see any reason why the remaining suppers should go for Obama. He's been getting his clocked clean the last three months. He polls weaker in the general election in the key swing states. He will lose more of HIllary's voters to McCain than Hillary would lose his voters to McCain. Hillary can and would win the general election. Obama probably wouldn't.

So why, exactly, should a self-respecting superdelegate, who wants to see the party win and not go down to defeat, go for Obama?

The original Obama narrative had him sweeping to the nomination with win after win. But he reached a brick wall in Texas and Ohio and has hardly been the same sense. He might not even win South Dakota and Montana. Daschle today on Meet the Press didn't sound at all confident of victory.

Suppose that Obama is beaten twice on Tuesday. What exactly is the argument that the remaining supers should go with him?

My guess is that his post super Tuesday string of victories really impressed he supers and kind of keyed them up to go for him. But that's a LONG time ago. The supers need to take a fresh look at this guy and where this race stands. Almost all of his earlier claims to fame have been undercut.

If they do give him the nomination, it's because they aren't willing to open their eyes and take a fresh look. That way lies defeat!

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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. slowly put down the crack pipe...
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
61. It's Operation Chaos, and it's working. Even sensible Democrats have been affected. (NT)
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InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
91. . . . and the "Hillary - Ready on Day One" sign.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
104. The OP is a freeper. A disabled profile gives you away, that and
your ham handed attempt to post a trouble starter.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Still no profile? n/t
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I've been here since 2001 - the very founding
I never put profiles on internet sites. Too many crazies out there.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So you say
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 02:29 AM by Spider Jerusalem
but we can't tell with no profile, can we?

And you don't have to put much in the way of info there, either.
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Too many crazies is right.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. You don't say.
:rofl:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Because he can win.....
that's why.

Hillary ain't been attacked yet, and she barely can do anything right.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. What's the evidence that he can win?
not much.

Lots and lots of evidence that Hillary is by far the stronger of the two candidates. Now that Obama's "entitlement" meme has been undercut and now that his wave has crested, there isn't really much current rationale for the superdelegates handing this thing to an almost sure loser.
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writes3000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. He will win the delegate race. He will win the fundraising race. He will win the new voter race.
He will win the nomination.

For Hillary to win the nomination, she needed to win the delegate race. She didn't. And all of her attempts to destroy Obama's candidacy didn't work.

She lost.

He ran the better campaign. The smarter campaign. He won. On to the general election.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. I have evidence, the supers have evidence......
the only person who doesn't have evidence is you and Hillary and her camp, obviously.

Considering that the GOP kept Hillary afloat since Texas by voting for her, and she still couldn't catch up, meanwhile Hillary throws the kitchen sink, racism and whatever else she can lay her hands on at Obama, and yet she still lags behind......it means that she won't win under normal GOP circumstances when it will be a kitchen sink thrown at her....while voters that she has offended with her stupid shit will be sitting it out while sitting on their hands.




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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Hillary can't strategize her way out of a paper bag.
Health Care, Iraq War, Presidential Nomination, she has been singularly unimpressive in her planning and execution.

Obama carefully planned and masterfully executed a win against an entrenched machine. He correctly foresaw what a debacle the Iraq War would be. He routed her at the RBC committee with the help of her own supporters, while being gracious and magnanimous.

Obama is a much stronger candidate than Hillary is simply because he is the nominee, but more importantly, he will be a stronger President.

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Youphemism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. Winning is always the best evidence you can win

Hillary keeps trying to make the case she can win as she is losing.

Losing is a losing argument. Losing and arguing you can win while you're losing is an especially losing argument.

If Hillary could only win, her argument that she could win would be a winning argument.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Now THAT'S a winning argument!
:toast:



Hillary's nonsense is starting to remind me of the Monty Python Argument Clinic sketch...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM



...only she's going on a lot longer and not funny.
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Hola Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
59. He's won an election already
Clinton's inability to win a majority of delegates in the contest raises great questions about her viability come Nov. If she can't win against Obama, how is she going to win against McCain and GOP machine?
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
87. Provide PROOF that Obama cannot win the general election or you are a liar
Sorry, just borrowing one of your cohort's tactics...
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. You aren't attempting to use LOGIC are you?
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writes3000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Vanity Fair piece wasn't new news to them. n/t
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Actually the "original Obama narrative" had him far behind
the popular Clinton brand name. But as Operation "fat, drugged, and full of shit" kicked off, many southern voters - those who listen to the hateful gasbag himself - opted to lengthen the Democratic primary by voting for the person who was then trailing behind.

But sure, keep telling yourself that the votes which propelled her in Texas, West Virginia, and Kentucky were all Democrats who weren't part of Limbaugh's plan. You keep telling yourself that while we go ahead and vote for the Democratic nominee against the Republican. Have fun.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Operation "fat, drugged, and full of shit"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. K and R. On to Denver! STILL almost THREE LONG MONTHS AWAY --
and isn't a week supposed to be a lifetime in politics? So what's a whole quarter of a year?

These SuperDs have an inalienable right to change their minds. Given time, they just might do that and go with the ELECTABLE candidate in the interests of the party and of the people who need a President.


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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Do they let Republicans into the Convention?
eom/
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Obama's camp
is banking on supers falling into herd mentality like the press has. They are also banking on the supers being taken in by Obama's implicit claim to some kind of "entitlement" to the nomination. But if the supers take a cold hard political look, they will see that the rationale for Obama's campaign has essentially collapsed. It's really been running on fumes - well-funded fumes, to be sure. The problem is there has been no second act. They had nothing going for them but the vague rhetoric of hope and change, plus Obama's personal narrative.

But the rhetoric got completely stale and the personal narrative was complicated by Wright and Pfleger.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. The only entitlement that Obama claims is that he has more delegates
period.

That's all that is needed.

Before Voting Begins, Clinton Leads
Survey: Before Votes, Clinton Leads Delegate Chase

By KAREN TRAVERS
Dec. 28, 2007

With only six days left before the Iowa caucuses and the race to the Democratic nomination well under way, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton is leading in the important battle for the so-called "Super Delegates"

Throughout the year states jockeyed fiercely to position their primaries and caucuses earlier in the year to play a more significant role in the nominating process.

But even with a bunched-up early primary season, a candidate still needs to accumulate delegates to win the Democratic nomination.

As of today, Clinton has amassed 69 more delegates than her nearest competitor, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, according to an ABC News survey of Democratic super delegates.

Clinton has support from 158 super delegates, Obama has 89 and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards comes in with 26. (Full chart last page).
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4060224

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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
41. Hillary's been running on personally-funded fumes for months now.
Without her millions, she would have been out of it by March.

But you keep on huffin' whatever fumes it is that are giving you these delusional visions, by all means.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
62. They also have the inalienable right to stand pat, and *EJECT THE LOSER*.
Hillary lost. Grieve. Get over it. Vote for Obama in the fall.

Tesha
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yes...yes...the entire nation has been begging for Hillary....
why, every single American believes that only Hillary Clinton can bring this country together.

Not.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. You got it. The entire nation has been begging for Hillary...
...to please, please go away already.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. Because as you reminded us, Flaming Ass-Tard Bill Donohue's "Catholic League" doesn't like him.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. Because she's a complete failure at running a campaign
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Hillary is so electable she can't even win the nomination.
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. Because they don't want to be associated with a loser.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. then they should distance themselves
from Obama. A sure loser if ever there was one.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. What makes him a loser......
considering that he has won?

Why don't you lay it out there. Tell us what is it that you know that the Super Delegates and we don't know.

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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #26
37. *crickets*
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 03:46 AM by papapi
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
45. Based on the fact he won more delegates and states?
Yeah, the supers should distance themselves from a guy who has won the primary based on the rules of the primary. Clearly that would be the best choice.

Similarly the electoral college should always grant the presidency to the candidate with the least won electoral votes. And only those players receiving the least amount of votes to the MLB All Star game should play. And of course only teams with losing records should play in championship series/games in every sport. After all, they're the ones best poised to win the big one, right?

I've seen people on LSD hallucinate less.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
55. Are you even 13 years old yet?
This is an adult forum sweetie, maybe you should try the Nickelodeon talkback page.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. MONEY!!!!! He's raking it in.. She's not.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. The DNC has to give him the nomination no matter what
They chose him, they own him.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. My understanding is that WE will be owning the DNC.......
at least 1.5 million of us....and there will be more soon.

It is the DNC that missed their funding deadline, and Hillary who is giving her campaign loans. Obama and 1.5 of us are in the Black.

Now, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #29
56. works for me
Obama can keep it. They are a laughing stock right now
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Daley, Axelrod and Soros own Obama
and for that matter the DNC
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. They "own" him, do they?
Considering that Axelrod works for Obama, then I guess I "own" the Change to Win Coalition inasmuch as I work for them. It's an interesting concept, one I'll be sure to bring up to my boss (or my "property" as you'd argue) come raise time!!! Can't wait! Thanks!

It's curious though that some of you never seemed to mind George Soros until he backed a candidate you don't like even though that candidate is in our party.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
97. Axelrod works for Daley
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
77. You're voting for McCain as you proclaimed proudly on You Tube comments..so why hang here?
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
75. Uh the voters chose him...
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
30. Doesn't matter anymore, the party is screwed either way
lose the blacks or lose white females, either way we lose
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. You know these things will happen for a fact, do you?
Will you go to Vegas with me and help me win millions? I'll split it with ya ....
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
31. dude, those are some rose colored glasses you have on
Hillary has been under-performing and losing key states since her delegate loss in TX!

She lost her 20 point lead in PA down to single digits, her 12 point lead in IN reduced to a tie, and got BLOWN OUT in NC and OR the last few months. MT and SD will be big wins for Obama to close it out.

She held her leads in TRADITION RED STATES where her narrow / one-issue "base" is concentrated.

Obama has blown her away in $$$ and every other demographic. You should get out more.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Don't forget the "Operation Chaos" votes that helped come as far
as she has. They were key to wins in all states starting in Texas. Had she lost Texas, as she finally did but too late for it to matter to OBama, she would have been in a different situation altogether.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
33. Dream on. Tuesday will be like Oregon. Obama will clean Hill's clock twice
Why do you think she's barely set foot in either state? Why do you think she's not going there today or tomorrow? Hillykins is a loser. She lost more states than Obama. He leads in every metric including the so-called popular vote. He has an excellent chance of winning over McCain. Judging from the past, better than that loser Hilly.

Why on earth would the SDs go for that ugly, disruptive, lying, broke, loser, Hilly?
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. i suspect that many of them may want time to step back and reasses. O's #s will only go down from n
now until nov. the supers will be wise to go with hillary and pick a candidate who can actually win. nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. She cannot win unless the Rush Voters do what they did again....
and they will not.

Plus, she's down further than Obama will ever go.

Just because his supporters have been "patient" simply because he has been winning, don't think that we won't get crazy if some fucked up shit happens and Hillary's camp is at the bottom of it.

When Obama asked that his supporters stay calm and not protest on Saturday, don't think it didn't happen because it couldn't....because it could have very easily. Meanwhile, Hillary was able to scour up 300 rag tag supporters who didnt even know how to act.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
44. nope - wrong
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. Man DU sure is full of clairvoyant soothsayers these days
Those who absolutely KNOW who will win the election and such. I'm betting you're all wildly rich owing to all of your lottery/Vegas winnings, right?
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Hola Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
43. Becasue he has proved himself the stronger candidate
who'se more in touch with the voters and the base of the Democratic party and the mood of the nation.

If Clinton was any of those things, she would be the front runner and the presumptive nominee, but she's not. Having failed to win in her own party, after being far 'ahead in the polls' - her ability to win a GE must be seriously questioned.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
47. He didn't hit a brick wall in Texas, he WON the most Delegates here
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 05:04 AM by MagickMuffin
and only lost the popular vote by 3%.

I think he can WIN the GE. He has brought new voters to the process. He has energized a lot of people. I'm sorry you refuse to open your eyes and acknowledge the fact he has won over people of ALL races. I watch every rally he has held that C-SPAN airs, and the crowds are amazing.

Maybe you need to take a fresh look, without your blinders.

Edit: typo





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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. Dittoheads put Hillary ahead in TX and IN. nt
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
48. He won the delegate count which means he won the election. Period.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message
50. Dre-ee-eam, dream, dream dream......
Sorry, but I don't think it's gonna happen, the supers all switching enmass to Clinton.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
51. Because Billary has run a disgusting, devisive campaign of "identity politics."
They have divided white women against blacks. Latinos/hispanics against blacks. Jews against black and po' white folk against blacks. Their evil deeds should not be rewarded. They should be forever shunned by every decent Democrat.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
53. You are delusional.
Did you forget MS, NC, WY, and OR? he only brick wall was the financial and superdelegate support wall Hillary hit.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
54. Either they think they can stop the Obama trainwreck...or they actually want to lose.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Two weeks
In two weeks, when Clinton is out of the race, Obama's numbers will go up substantially. What will you say then?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
58. what a ridiculous post.
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 06:27 AM by bowens43
Obama is winning by every measure there is. Why would the SD take the nomination from the clear winner and give it to the loser? Obama earned the nomination and he will be president. Get used to it.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. Obama is "winning" only because
of stupid things like the Texas two-step, undemocratic caucuses, and stiff-arming the voters of Florida and Michigan. The supposedly presumptive nominee the self-declared messiah of a new politics gets his clocked cleaned regularly in the past month by the candidate that everybody in the media says has no chance. He loses by 35 here, 40, there and then another 36. Real impressive.

And the supers should just hand this divisive loser the nomination because of what, now?

I don't get it.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #63
79. You don't have to get it. Only thing you need to understand is that he is the Dem Nominee...
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #63
85. Hillary is down by almost 200 delegates by the way
You're going to have to put together a much bigger list than that. :rofl:
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #63
93. He's winning because..
he is winning! Hillary got her clock cleaned.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
96. Here's an idea.
Why don't you stick the phrase "undemocratic caucuses" as far up your ass as you can, you pathetic fucking stooge.

And self-declared messiah of new politics? Are you fucking kidding me? Obama said "I am the messiah of new politics"? You are completely delusional. You've lost it.

Jeez, either learn to argue your case coherently or go away.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #63
99. Indeed, you don't get it!!
The next couple of days should be interesting but I wish it was already Friday, Obama had a solid 50 or so lead, and we can stop with all this BS already. I don't particularly care what somebody says on a message board, but the problem is that the "official" Clinton camp, some of them at least (a big thank you Gov. Vilsack for the sanity) are spouting the same Alice in Wonderland absurdities, making assumptions and claiming them as facts (remember Bill's "she IS WINNING" the general election?), or are plain distorting facts. I'VE HAD IT!!:banghead:
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
60. There was a great description of Clinton "supporters" in another thread.
as opposed to a real supporter.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
64. Admit that you don't see why over 17 Million people have voted for Obama.
That's all your post shows.

Clearly, most of the superdelegates, and most of the voters in America see a very good reason to vote for Obama.

Admit that you cannot see things objectively, and move on. It's over.

I had to do the same when Wes Clark didn't win. It's painful, but not everyone can win.

We have the right person. He didn't vote for the Iraq War, and he is not one of the leaders who has brought our country to the miserable point at which it finds itself.

He's the right person at the right time. Millions feel this way, as do the superdelegates. He will win handily in November.

Ask yourself why the Republicans desperately want Clinton on the ticket.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
65. He won Texas. Where have YOU been? n/t
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #65
84. Hasn't left the denial stage yet.
:eyes:
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mohc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
66. He does not need to win all the supers
I do not understand this mentality that allows one to think that whatever number of remaining superdelegates there are there is a potential for that group to break 100% one way or the other. This "winner-take-all" mindset is exactly what burned Clinton in the first place, and it will continue to do so. There are good solid arguments for both candidates to make to superdelegates to try and win over their support. These arguments are really not that much different than arguments made to voters during the primaries. Looking at how the pledged delegates have split, and the rate at which the superdelegates are splitting, you have to really reach to see a way for Clinton to get more than say 60% of the remaining superdelegates. Clinton could win this or a greater number, "winning" the remaining superdelegates significantly, and she will still lose the nomination. Right now there are 21 add-on superdelegates from Obama states, and he is likely to win at least 16 delegates tomorrow. The current number to win for him is 44, so with those 37 delegates that are basically assured to him, he only needs 7 more superdelegates. Without getting some Edwards delegates, which are far more likely to break for Obama, there is no way for Clinton to overtake Obama even if she gets all the other superdelegates. Obama does not need to make an argument to win all or even most of the superdelegates, he only needs to make an argument to 10 or so and he has the nomination.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
67. I'm sure the SDs are paying more attention to what is going on than you,
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 07:50 AM by Window
since they are the one's who will actually make the decision.

"The supers need to take a fresh look at this guy and where this race stands. Almost all of his earlier claims to fame have been undercut.

If they do give him the nomination, it's because they aren't willing to open their eyes and take a fresh look. That way lies defeat!"



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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
68. Hmmm...if he's getting his "clocked cleaned" then why aren't the supers
switching in all swiftness to Hillary?

That's what I don't understand about The Enablers. They come here and post these asasinine threads applying "Clintonian logic" that makes no sense.

If Obama were so bad and is getting his ass kicked, then why are the supers endorsing him, and in some cases, leaving Hillary's camp for his?

Please explain this, Enablers.
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Because they are not rethinking this
and are letting themselves be pressured by a dev eloping herd mentality.

But you know, they could have put him over the top a long time ago. They haven't. So there is still hope that they will wake up and see the light. Two more wins on Tuesday for Hillary may help a bit.
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #69
78. They haven't been flocking to him because they want the process to
continue until all the primaries have completed and the voters have their say. It's out of respect for Senator Clinton, and despite the lie that Obama has asked her to drop out, he has stated repeatedly that she has the right to stay in the race as long as she wants...even to the convention. She reserves that right.

But I ask again, if Hillary's case that she is the stronger, better candidate were convincing, then shouldn't the supers forget about the "herd mentality" and support her. Why aren't they. The "herd mentality" doesn't work here. Why? Because the supers in WV--Rockefeller and Byrd--went for Obama, not Hillary. They are risking their political careers because they are doing what they feel is right for the party, not Hillary and Bill Clinton.

Perhaps The Enablers should get on board, too, and stop putting their love and affection for their candidate above the best interests of the party...and the country!
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #69
80. Hillary won't get any wins on Tuesday. Wake up!
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
70. If so many voters had buyers' remorse, why does Obama continue to lead in tracking polls?
If his support had collapsed since February and a lot of people who voted for him had buyers' remorse, wouldn't he be significantly behind in national tracking polls? And would 2 different polls show that if California voters had it to do over again they'd go for Obama by double digits?
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. National tracking polls don't mean much
look at the state by state polls that show Hillary cleaning McCain's clock and Obama essentially tied with him. Look a the substantial rise in Obama's negatives. He's on a serious downward trend.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #72
81. Lol don't look at National polls only state polls..gosh you sound like McAuliffe, Ickes, Davis and
Wolfson!

Polls are polls, either you take them or you don't.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
71. From my observations, Hillary has become a national joke. For some time now, she has been using
tortured logic. Logic that is so utterly disturbing, that a 5 year old can see through it. Many people in the country have lost respect for the Clintons. Open your eyes and see it for what it is.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
73. Okay...
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
74. To answer your question: Because they love the USA!
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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Then they should want to save it from the Repugnants
The best way to do that is to back Hillary. Obama is a loser.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #76
82. It's not going to happen. SD's are on the move. I think Obama picked up 5 today already..
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #76
102. Obama is NOT a loser. He has a much better chance of winning the GE than Hillary!
Hillary will bring out the R/W Clinton haters just to knock her down. They don't care about the USA, all they care about is hating the Clintons. The future of the USA can't afford having another republican in office. Senator Obama is our best choice at this point. Hopefully he'll have the foresight to name John Edwards as his VP!
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
83. You're in the denial/anger phase right now. Don't worry, it'll pass.
Sounds like a little bit more anger than denial though. At least you're further along than Hillary, who is still stuck in the denial phase. :rofl:
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
86. take a look
# The bipartisan George Washington University "Battleground Poll" conducted May 11 through May 14 showed McCain trouncing Clinton 51 to 43. Obama did better, leading McCain 49 to 47.

# The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll had Clinton exactly tied with McCain for 10 of the last 16 days, and leading on only 5 days. Furthermore her lead was never more than 4 points, while the poll's statistical margin of error is plus or minus 4 points. The poll had McCain leading 47 to 44 on May 22.

# The Reuters/Zogby Poll released May 21 showed Clinton and McCain "essentially tied." Clinton led by 41 to 40, but that one-point lead was well within the poll's three-point margin of error.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
88. It's quite clear to me the clintons have lost a lot of friends over the years Obama wins this.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
89. Obama will eviscerate McW.
That's why the wingnuts all want to run against Smellary.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
90. Notice how you didn't ask why the supers should go for Hillary
Pretty much says it all. :rofl:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
92. "He's been getting his clocked clean the last three months."
Since March:

Ohio C
Rhode Island C
Texas O
Vermont O
Wyoming O
Mississippi O
Pennsylvania C
Guam O
Indiana C
North Carolina O
West Virginia C
Kentucky C
Oregon O
Puerto Rico C

7-7 does not a clocked clean make.
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
94. Get it all outta your system, kid...
Romp about your room. Kick the stuffed animals. Blacken the bottoms of your footie pajamas while madly dashing around.

Scream a little.

Get it all out.

Nap-time's almost here.


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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
95. The story is as follows,
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 09:14 AM by FlaGranny
sort of, from my recollection.

A year and a half ago, Hillary was the nominee. Everyone said she was sure to win the nomination. Obama came into the picture and quickly caught up to her and passed her. So the Clinton campaign started to sling the mud and slowed him down some, but he maintained his lead. Then came the manipulations and goalpost moving from the Clinton campaign. Obama still ahead. Anyone with brain enough to follow the sequence can see that Clinton's campaign was playing catch up and was financially unprepared. All (including superdelegates) can see their manipulations and Obama's measured responses. The only time I think he was unprepared was for the Wright controversy, but then he handled it beautifully. Clinton pissed off a lot of voters with some of her statements. Obama pissed off a lot of voters because of his blackness and his audacity to run against a woman. They're about even there. In the GE Obama will pull in those newly registered young voters, most of the independents, and a few disgruntled Republicans. Clinton would pull in her base for sure and most Democrats, but many fewer independents, and she will bring out the GOP like nobody's business.

THAT'S why.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
98. "He polls weaker in the general election in the key swing states." False.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. Of course, but who cares? n/t
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
101. Obama has been easy on Hillary lately. And he polls better then Hillary and McCain.
And dont look for him to lose Tuesday night.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
103. BTW - Sense should be since
Supers can pick whoever they want. There will be a hit with them picking Clinton or Obama. The hit they would take over-turning the delegate total would be much greater though (picking Clinton).

I wouldn't mind it having worked out that it was a Clinton/Obama ticket. As that would be unbeatable by the Repub's and it would be a serious shot at 16 years of Dem Executive rule. Didn't work out that way though.
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