Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

And So, It Ends

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:40 AM
Original message
And So, It Ends
With the decision by the Rules & Bylaws Committee, Hillary now has three options:

1) Bow out gracefully. Well, for a given value of "graceful" anyway. No-one would blame her at this point, it's been a bruising fight and she gave it everything she had but lost to teh better contender. No shame in that.

2) Hang around until the convention. I'd call this the Huckabee approach but I don't want to insult Hillary. If she wants to stay in to steer the debate or for the sake of her supporters or even just for the sake of going the distance and she does so without tearing down Obama, I don't think anyone would begrudge her that. It would help if she endorses Obama when the time comes.

3) Keep campaigning. This is the worst case scenario and really, there would be no excuse for it. The RBC compromise was more than generous, the superdelegates won't back her (and a great many of them now publically back Obama). Campaigning in the manner she has been all the way to the convention (or even after) would be nothing more than kneecapping Obama and we would have a right to call it what it would be, sabotage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. take option number one, Hillary, I beg you
And option number two is an insult to Huckabee, not to Hillary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. "It would help if she endorses Obama when the time comes"?
and when would that be? After that gigantic ass Kitchen Sink?

Should be, like....tommorrow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Somehow I'm on the campaign mailing list - I got this message:
Hillary has consistently stood up for the voters of Michigan and Florida. She, like you, has insisted that the voice of all Americans be heard. Today, the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee announced their decision on seating Florida and Michigan's delegations. In recent days, almost 350,000 of Hillary's supporters wrote in to the committee to make clear what an important principle it is for our party to count every vote.

Our campaign has released an official statement about the results of the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting and I'd like to share it with blogHillary readers. I know how passionate Hillary's supporters are about the importance of counting every vote cast in Florida and Michigan and I hope that they continue to express their feelings with the respect and thoughtfulness they've shown during the course of this campaign.

Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy made the following statement:

Todays results are a victory for the people of Florida who will have a voice in selecting our Partys nominee and will see its delegates seated at our partys convention. The decision by the Rules and Bylaws Committee honors the votes that were cast by the people of Florida and allocates the delegates accordingly.

We strongly object to the Committees decision to undercut its own rules in seating Michigans delegates without reflecting the votes of the people of Michigan.

The Committee awarded to Senator Obama not only the delegates won by Uncommitted, but four of the delegates won by Senator Clinton. This decision violates the bedrock principles of our democracy and our Party.
We reserve the right to challenge this decision before the Credentials Committee and appeal for a fair allocation of Michigans delegates that actually reflect the votes as they were cast.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, we'll see
If they do appeal it, it's sabotage, plain and simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. They have no standing to make a challenge. The challenge has to come from
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 04:24 AM by scarletwoman
the Michigan delegates themselves.

There were at least two threads earlier that explained this in great detail, my apologies that I'm too tired to find them right now.

But from what I've read, it's hogwash, they have no standing. Plus, they're delusional.

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Not real classy IMO
She picked up 23 delegates on Saturday, and she got them for free. If anyone should be complaining about the outcome, it should be Obama. The rules were bent in her favor. To complain that she wasn't given the whole pie rather than a sizable majority of it is a little on the poor behavior side of things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Michigan and FL
had no delegates. At the beginning of the meeting, Senator Clinton had no MI delegates, now she has some. The RBC agreed to settlements that give these states and the candidates some delegates.

There is no way to accurately reflect the will of voters who did not vote on the basis that the contest "did not count".

The Michigan Democratic Party did the best it could with this mess. BTW most polling indicates that if a contest were held today, which would count under the rules, Hillary would lose it. Most analysis indicates if the Michigan primary were held early within the approved window, it would have been a 2 or 3 percent race that could have gone either way.

No matter how one dices it, Hillary benefitted from the timing violation, but not enough to make any difference in the outcome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ashy Larry Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hey, you never know.
She only needs 83% of the remaining delegates. She could still pull this thing out!


:sarcasm: :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. There's always the Third Party option.
Hillary and Bill and the Lanny Davis-types have spent a lot of energy building the necessary "Founding Myth" for a third-party (should I call it "third way"?) stab at this.

There are a lot of folks out there who have bought into every victim, sexist, popular-vote scam they've been sold.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I thought about that
But in all honesty, I think that would come later. If Obama loses the GE, Obama supporters will blame Hillary cutting him down right up to the convention (and, in my view, they'd be right). The Hillary zealots, meanwhile, who have brought into the whole idea that Hillary lost entirely due to sexism, ran an entirely clean campaign, etc, would shout "told you so" and accept zero responsibility. I'm sure you've seen them around here just as I have and if Obama loses, I honestly think the party may split. The progressives go off in one direction, led by Obama; the DLC faction go in the other, under the Clintons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. And the few remaining moderate GOP could split off with McCain
And fuse with the Clintons and presto, a new third party where Clinton is king.

Sounds terrifyingly possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Don't you mean, "turd party"? You know, Lieberman's party.
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sabateuse
People keep giving her the benefit of the doubt, or acting as if she's just trying to win.
Maybe they just can't believe she's actually doing it. Maybe they still think if they're really, really
nice she will stop sabotaging the party.

But it has become clear,

Clinton's goal is to make Obama lose to McCain, she is no longer trying to win for herself.

It's shocking, but it's true and it's time to treat her like the sabateuse she is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 21st 2018, 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC