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Can Hillary still claim pop vote count after today?

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platosrepublic Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:37 PM
Original message
Can Hillary still claim pop vote count after today?
As we all know Hillary has no chance at this point to win in the delegate math; she has been claiming that she has the popular vote if you count Michigan (where Obama wasnt on the ballot) and not count caucus states.

After today, can she still claim this in Michigan?
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Muttocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think someone answered this on your other post about it a few minutes ago. nt
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. .....
:)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. There was no popular vote to begin with
So she can claim it all she wants.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary can CLAIM whatever she wants..
she's been doing it for months now. Her campaign seems to have mastered Bush's "Fuzzy Math" strategy and perfected it frankly.

So, can her campaign CLAIM that they have the popular vote? Sure... just like Obama can Claim just the opposite.

Hillary does not have the popular vote, but her die hard supporters really don't care. They are fine with creating false facts to support what they need to support to justify her staying in the race, and possibly voting for McCain if she doesn't win the nomination. It's just pathetic that Senator Clinton is spearheading this line of thinking instead of party unity. Notice, I said pathetic.. but not surprising.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. she says lots of stuff
Mark Steel: You couldn't make it up (unless you're Hillary, that is)

Traditionally, Democrat candidates for President start slightly radical, then try to reassure Conservative America, get in a tangle and look like idiots. But this time may be different, because Barack Obama has stuck by his friend the militant preacher, refusing to disown him, and Hillary Clinton has gone mental.

Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."


And auctioneers say, "Three-fifty, three-sixty, three-seventy, three-seventy man in the hat three-eighty here, my dad invented cornflakes, going once going twice, and magnets, he invented them straight up gone."


Anyone can make a mistake about what happened on a trip, she said, and she's right. You might forget the name of the couple you met on the beach, or whether Thursday was the day you came under sustained mortar attack and had to dive behind sandbags and shoot your way out to safety, or was it the day you went to the dolphinarium.


This wasn't just a politician's lie, it was the pointless lie of someone who sits on their own in pubs and leans across to grab you and lie compulsively. Her next round of soft-focus adverts will probably feature her soothingly saying, "My fellow Americans, I drank a pint of walrus milk once for a bet. I speak fluent Eskimo. I once ate all the gherkins in Belgium. My brother's got a yak in his loft. I fell asleep on a night bus once and woke up in Munich, and had to get a lift back on a camel. I used to live on an iceberg. I've got a waffle-maker that works underwater."


If she became President it would be brilliant, as she stood on the White House lawn before the world's press and said, "I would like to thank the King of Morocco for his thoughtful remarks, and would add that I used to play professional darts. I went to a party once that went on for three weeks without stopping, and there was so many people dancing that the floor collapsed and we all landed downstairs which turned out to be an off-licence so it went on for another month."


Presumably she thought the sniper fire story would impress the audience of soldiers. So her campaign team should book her in to speak to other professions to see what she comes out with. If she addresses lumberjacks she'll start, "Hey, that's a tough job you folks do. And I should know because I once spent two days dangling from a cedar tree. Then my chainsaw slipped and sawed me down the middle, but luckily my right half put my left half in a nearby freezer that kept it fresh until the doctor arrived to sew me back together. But hey, let's turn to the economy."


Maybe it's part of a pact. Her husband only seems reasonable now because the idiot that followed him is so much worse. So to even things up, as president she'll talk such twaddle that in a couple of years people start pining for Bush.


Because someone who routinely lies like she does, then dismisses it as a consequence of the number of words she says has severe psychological problems. Perhaps her disorder is a result of the sort of politician she is. Like Blair, neither she nor Bill stand for anything priding themselves in being tied to no "ideology". So a normal politician might set out with a set of principles, then lie as they compromise and betray them. But a Blair or Clinton is a politician with no purpose but their own standing, like celebrities who are nothing but celebrities. So they say whatever they feel will make them look best to the audience they're with, regardless of whether it's true, until they probably don't know themselves what's real and what's not.


And the daft thing with Hillary is her real life is ridiculous enough. So when she ends up in a home, muttering "I've got the biggest peanut in the world. I sang backing vocals on 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'. I went right along the Great Wall of China in a wheelbarrow," the nurses will say "Poor old thing. This morning she was jibbering that her husband was president and had affairs in the back room and denied it but got caught cos he sploshed on an intern's dress. She's getting worse isn't she, it's such a shame.

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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. Thank you, thank you
Edited on Mon Jun-02-08 03:58 AM by beac
for a MUCH needed laugh... actually quite a few of them!

Just BRILLIANT!! :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. I think that's when the Dem leaders knew for sure she had gone round the bend.
When she started trying to sell the popular vote meme. No one ever accepted it an iota, other than her rabid Clinton scouts.
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ruby slippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. as Chuck Todd said....only with her fuzzy math and if she
counts out the caucus votes and counts in all of Michigan and Florida and then counts Puerto Rico which does not count in the General Election....or something like that.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Todd is an open Obama supporter
Puerto Rico counts at the Convention and Obama agreed to that rule when he entered the race.
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ruby slippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
45. but he is still a very good mathematician......no matter who he supports
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. You are ACTUALLY bringing up RULES that people AGREED to
when they entered the race????

You mean like the RULE that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count? Like that RULE?

:rofl:
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes. Also, she can claim the endorsement of the Jedi Knights and Mary Poppins.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. the jedi have selected obama
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 12:34 AM by swampg8r
the jedi have selected obama
the force is strong is this one
as for mary poppins?who knows
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. She is in her own Primary now
not this one. This one has ended.
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. She has been campaigning alone since NC and IN
so nothing changes, I am sure after PR she will lose her mind with Glee over her hollow victory.

Let's keep in mind PR can't vote in the GE. Of course I heard a rumor she was trying to change the rule as well. sadly the only ones who can change that are Puerto Ricans and from what I have been told, half say yes to state hood, the other half say no.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Again...no.
The delegates did not represent the split from the primary like it did in Florida. It was a compromise number between the two camps. She can claim victory in Michigan, but she cannot claim the popular vote.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. Currently, she is down 275,000 votes.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. Since her claim is a LIE, yes, she can continue lying about the popular vote
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Democratic nomination is not based on popular vote.
It's based on a system of delegates from both primaries and caucuses.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's all well and good but she didn't win the pop vote either. People have to know this.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 12:01 AM by MidwestTransplant
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. True! n/t
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. She is ahead and tomorrow she wil smash Obama
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Only the most twisted math puts her ahead. Under similar logic you could say that
Hillary has won non states. Both claims are equally ridiculously.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Right. Just as the electoral college is not based on popular vote
and we did not like it back in 2000.

Why would Democrats who were robbed by a similar system in 2000 are willing to accept it now?

And since in some states the black districts got more delegates per capita than rural ones, one can see how some would see this is preferential treatment for blacks and this is how Obama won.
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. NEWS FLASH: Hillary Clinton claims pigs can fly! Still doesn't earn nomination.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 12:04 AM by papapi
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. She should claim she invented the question mark.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. no its too obvious
she needs to go with the tilde ~
lesser known
she needs a relative with a name you can make tilde from too
like matilda


see ?if i was in charge of her stories she would have had one!
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. No, but if she still has her ticket...
she can claim her baggage on the way out!

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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
50. ,
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Good one!
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. The primary-based popular vote is a figment of Hillary's imagination.
Edited on Sun Jun-01-08 12:52 AM by rocknation
As she herself admits, not all the states had primaries. In addition, not all the states had open primaries, one state had a caucus PLUS a primary, and four of the states which had caucuses never released their popular vote totals. Also, if the popular votes of the caucus states shouldn't be included, neither should those of Puerto Rico or the U.S. territories because they don't get to vote in November.

The object of primaries and caucuses is not the majority of the votes, but the majority of the delegates those votes generate. The caucus/primary popular vote is therefore a desperate, degrading, oxymoronic fantasy--with the accent on "moronic."

:headbang:
rocknation
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
21. Only if she doesn't count the caucus states.
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Wizard777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. Hillary needs to talk to Al Gore about what winning the popular vote gets you.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. No, she can't. The delegation apportionment in Michigan wasn't based on her popular vote
so she loses that argument.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
25. She never could
Her campaign conveniently left out some of the caucus states, and we all know how well Obama did there and how poorly she did.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
26. Her website has popular vote totals on the front page. Nothing about delegates.
nt
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. They don't count votes cast in caucuses in their totals n/t
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I know. It's a complete scam. And on the website of someone who wants to be taken seriously.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
28. If she wants to she can claim a delegate lead...
it won't be any less true that her pop vote argument ever was.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. She couldn't have claimed it even if they'd done 100%
Can't count all caucus states.

And it wouldn't have mattered anyways. Pop vote is just a statistic.
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AZ Criminal JD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Why did Obama say he was ahead in the popular vote earlier when he was?
If it it just a statistic? He mentioned it in speeches and on TV appearances.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. link?
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. To highlight the fact that he was winning completely
Not to claim victory in spite of the fact that he was losing in every measurable factor like HRC has been doing.

And when he did so he wasn't lying.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. It has no relevance. None.
You can't have a popular vote where all the votes from all the states are not tabulated. This is a non sequitur.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. It's so crazy anyway, since she leaves out four states.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
41. CAN she? Yes. WILL she? Most assuredly.
Is it true?

weeelllll.....
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. She can only claim it if you count Michigan and even then you're discounting 6 contests listed
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. She can not. Here's the proof.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. She can claim Alpha Centauri and the Land of Nod
if she wants. It still won't make it a valid argument.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
46. yes
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
47. NEWS FLASH: Hillary Clinton claims pigs can fly! Still doesn't earn nomination.
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