Obama and race

[gorfle]

OK, I've been told some things by some of my Republican buddies that are giving me pause on Obama.

After the whole Wright scandal, I watched Obama's response and I found it to be refreshingly candid, and as it is said he wrote it himself I believed what he said in it.

But I have heard that in fact he was a member of Wright's church for many many years, and that Wright baptized his children and performed his marriage. I heard that just last year he had donated something like $27,000 to Wright's church.

It is seeming less and less likely that Obama did not know what Wright was preaching. Why did he stay on at that church for so long?

Either he is racist and agrees with Wright, but is lying and telling us all he doesn't, or he is not a racist, but stayed in the church for some reason, or he didn't know that Wright was a racist.

None of these answers are very satisfactory to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Who, exactly, are you trying to kid?

Jee-sus, this is pathetic.

[gorfle]

5. I swear I'm not trying to kid.

Read my posts on this forum. I voted straight Democratic in the 2006 election because of the war, and I'm going to do so again in November.

It just disappoints me to read this kind of stuff and find that the criticism is valid and I don't have a reasonable response to offer.

What is the reasonable response?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Quit playing dumb.

You're out of your league, kid.

You're not fooling anybody.

[gorfle]

18. You are wrong.

I am not trying to fool anyone, I swear. You would not believe the heat I get from my family since I switched from Republican to Democrat. These kinds of questions are what I got pummeled with over a Memorial Day cookout, and all I could say is, "Well, I'm voting for him anyway".

I believe Obama is this generation's Kennedy. I think he is eloquent and intelligent. I believe his speech on race was the most candid discussion of race that I have ever heard a politician utter.

And yet I still have no response when someone asks me how Obama could associate for 20 years so closely with Wright, and it bugs me.

[Occam Bandage]

9. "the criticism is valid."

Wright said nothing that was racist. He said, over the course of twenty years, a handful of things that are really stupid out of context. And Obama said that he didn't pick his church because of his pastor's political views.

So what criticism, exactly, is valid? That Obama should have been politically smart enough to realize 20 years ago that this guy might say things that might embarrass him when he was twice his age? Or that he should have been cold enough to cut ties with his church the minute he found his pastor said some politically incorrect things?

You're not remotely convincing.

[Occam Bandage]

2. You're too transparent.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Oh oh, Obama must be close to wrapping this up. Here come all the

"Obama supporters" with their newly-found "concerns".

[knixphan]

45. LOL!

[gcomeau]

4. You can't possibly seriously be under the impression

...that Wright stood up in that church every single week and said things that are comparable to the worst few minutes people were able to dredge out of endless hours of video of him delivering sermons. And that THAT is what Obama was sitting through whenever he attended.

Please use some common sense.

[AtomicKitten]

6. Maybe we have no business poking our noses in candidate's place of worship.

Just a thought.

[gorfle]

11. No, I can't agree with that.

The fact of the matter is, who people associate with matters. If you associate with racists, while it is quite possible you are not a racist odds are not good in your favor.

Obama was married by this guy, had him baptize his children, and supposedly wrote a book titled using one of Wright's quotes. This means he associates himself quite closely with Wright. And given Wright's track record, I find myself wondering how Obama could have become so closely associated with Wright and not know about his racist side.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Well, if you are verklempt about this,

I assume you feel the same about McCain's guys, the Revs Parsley and Hagee.

I guess you'll be organizing the Obama/McCain Pastor-Off cage match to ascertain the lesser of two evils. Good luck on all that.

[gorfle]

22. No...

No, I won't be agonizing, as I'm voting Democratic no matter what, as I'm sick of this war.

I brought up the Hagee thing, to which I was told, "McCain doesn't go to Hagee's church, didn't have Hagee perform his wedding or baptize his kids. McCain didn't write a book titled with a Hagee quote. McCain hasn't equated Hagee with a member of his family that he could not disown."

And he's right. Hagee may love McCain, but McCain hasn't associated himself personally with Hagee as Obama did with Wright.

[Skidmore]

39. You sound just like Pat Buchanan right now on Hardball. Word for word.

And he's a consummate bigot.

[Mooney]

41. What did Wright say that was racist?

[Shakespeare]

8. So....you're concerned....

[H2O Man]

10. Oh dear!

[buff2]

12. I don't believe Obama is racist

But I am wondering why he has surrounded himself with those nut jobs. They seem like back stabbers to me. I'm voting for Obama no matter what. I really like the guy. :patriot:

[gorfle]

13. Me too, buff.

I knew when I asked this question I'd get jumped on by a million people questioning my loyalty.

I'm voting for Obama in November.

[buff2]

27. I figured that,already

:hi:

[Muttocracy]

14. error #1 = asking us to analyze the insights of your Republican buddies. nt

[Thrill]

15. YAWN you heard Wright say one little clip. And you assume he's been saying it for yrs

[gorfle]

19. From what they are telling me

From what my friends said, he's been going on like this for years. I will have to go find examples now to see if it is true.

[Occam Bandage]

21. Well, it's not like they'd exaggerate to make a political point.

The media showed the three or four worst moments in the twenty years Obama knew him.

[gorfle]

23. OK.

OK are we sure that is the case? Because that makes me feel a lot better.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. Here's my hit:

Obama; his Church, our People
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6184178&mesg_id=6184178

See if it helps you.

[gorfle]

32. Thank you, Tom.

Thanks Tom. I agree with what you said, and it was basically the conclusion I had come to as well after Obama's speech on race.

But basically you are saying that he turned a blind eye to the prejudice of his pastor, choosing other battles to fight against closer associates. But it seems he was quite close to Wright - being married by him, having his children baptized by him, and naming a book after one of his quotes. How can we be certain that he doesn't instead actually agree with his pastor? How long had Wright been spouting this stuff over 20 years? Was it a recent thing, or has this been going on for 20 years?

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. I wouldn't boil a summary of what I wrote down to that

For the record I still have prejudices, and chances are you do also. And I agree with some of the things Reverend Wright says also. Black and white is seldom black and white. I sincerely believe it will advance racial harmony in America if Barack Obama is elected President. I hope you feel that way also, and at the least I hope you support this historic opportunity to see what it can bring us. We have gotten only so far with an unbroken string of dozens of white Presidents.

[gorfle]

49. Absolutely!

I sincerely believe it will advance racial harmony in America if Barack Obama is elected President. I hope you feel that way also, and at the least I hope you support this historic opportunity to see what it can bring us.

I agree 100% I am very excited to be having our first black president. I think it will go a long way to demonstrating that black people can advance in this country even to the highest office in the land.

[canucksawbones]

50. you have GOP friends

that are still your friends, but you don't agree with them about everything, do you.

Because Wright has said some stupid things has been only relevant because he's the pastor at Obama's church. The fact of the matter is that Wright has received presidential commendations, helped LBJ during his time as a marine, was involved in counselling Clinton during the Lewinsky years.

Further Wright really speaks more of empowerment of the blacks, not dissing whites, although he has made some stupid remarks regarding government conspiracies. Let's face it, unless you go and look at several hours of Wright's sermons, you can't make a judgement on Wright, and you certainly can't make an assessment of his relationship with Obama.

[Rosemary2205]

20. So don't vote for him.

If you really can't understand why a man would consider the whole array of what an entire church family offers rather than a few words spoken by just one guy on one day, then run vote with your Republican friends for Grandpa.

God help you if one of your own kids ever says anything less than perfection itself. It will be painful for both of you when you disown them and never have anything to do with them again.

Sarcastic but serious

[gorfle]

26. No, I'm voting for him.

I am going to vote Democratic this election no matter what. I am sick of this war and the trillions of dollars being sunk into it when we are constantly told we won't have any Social Security when we retire.

I'm just tired of having to shrug my shoulders around my friends and say, "Welp, I'm voting for him anyway even though he associated with a racist, America-hating pastor for 20 years."

It makes me feel like an idiot to not have a response better than that.

[Rosemary2205]

30. Then maybe

you should spend some time finding out what Obama's church is all about and what all the Rev has done other than badmouth the white folks of his own generation (who generally deserve it).

Less than one nanosecond on google scored this - the church's website - knock yourself out.

http://www.tucc.org/pastor.htm

[gorfle]

33. I will.

I will research the church and Wright more but at this point I have no reason to doubt what I've already been told about him - that he has been issuing forth racist and anti-American rhetoric for a long time.

Also I strongly doubt that the church's own web site will be an impartial source of information on this issue.

[Rosemary2205]

34. May I just say

you probably fit right in with your Republican friends.

:)

[gorfle]

48. Actually, no I don't.

I spent a good portion of Memorial Day bantering with my family about Obama.

[ErinBerin84]

36. Then do some more research, by all means

Though, try and stay away from the right wing blogs. Honestly, I've always found it really easy to debate the notions of "Anti-Americanism" expressed by associates of the Democratic party, as compared to what I consider to be true "Anti-Americanism" as expressed by associates of the right wing. But again, it's a personal thing, and after your research I hope you can come to some conclusions about your particular feelings towards this issue.

[ann_american2004]

44. uh oh gorfle

then you are not going to like my link below. What is going on with that church????
I know a lot of people here hate Hillary but never in a million years would I go to a church that preached racism like that. It is horrible. That man has no place in the 21st century!
I am talking about the new preacher Obama is associated with that's on YouTube. Not just Wright. What is going on!!!???????!!!!! Someone help!

Obama '08

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. Yes. He is racist against himself.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Wow - you made it to 900 - kudos!

[AspenRose]

28. Thank you for your concern.

.

[RC]

29. How is Rev Wright a raciest?

Quotes? Links? Sources?

Am I a raciest because I prefer to date white women? Am I a raciest because my work place is lily white? Am I a raciest because I plan to vote for Obama regardless of what Rev Wright says? Wright is old news anyway. And BTY, I agree with most, but not all, of what I have heard and read about what Rev Wright has said. The truth upsets some people. People aren't used to the truth since Nixon. Hopefully Obama will change that.

[Forkboy]

31. Get some new buddies, and then a better act.

[izzybeans]

35. Wow.

Just wow. Not even trying to hide it are ya?

[crickets]

37. The 'hide thread' button is just smokin' today.

:eyes:

[lxlxlxl]

38. There is another answer you are missing...

Most educated people are aware of extremist takes on ideology and theology...some people are afraid of listening to these views, and some people use those views to prove their own extreme ideological viewpoints.

You should have respect for people that directly experience desperate explanations for the distress they live in, and overcome those views to stand up and try to lead people to a better place.

There is absolutely no truth to the idea that hearing someone talk directly influences everything you do.

Also, people need to start asking why they don't hear that type of talk in other churches. Sometimes you get nutjob evangelicals, but for the most part, white suburban churches simply do not have to talk about issues of poverty, race, or god's role in inequality. There is that special type of privilege that comes from comfort where you do not have to ask or think about questions or problems that other people are forced to live with.

[Mooney]

40. Christ not this shit again.

[ann_american2004]

43. Oh dear

Our man is running out of preachers:.

wow did they bury this one fast:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/30/obama.pfleger/index.html?iref=topnews

"A video making the rounds on YouTube shows the Rev. Michael Pfleger mocking Clinton for becoming teary-eyed before the New Hampshire primary in January.

In the video, Pfleger wipes his eyes with a handkerchief and suggests Clinton wept because she thought that as a white person and the wife of a former president, she was entitled to the presidency.

"And then, out of nowhere, came 'Hey, I'm Barack Obama,' " Pfleger said during a sermon Sunday at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Illinois. "And said, 'Oh damn, where did you come from? I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!' "


It goes on, as the congregation cheers. I find this deeeeeeeepppply offensive. This preacher later apologized for this but I dont believe him anymore than Wright. I hope there aren't anymore divisive crazies in Obama's closet. And for God' sake I am not putting this out there to get the usual 'conform or hear every possible insult, dont complain or question, etc" rhetoric. This has me troubled and I am looking for advice/opinions here! Come on fellow Dem's I need some feedback. Quick!!!

Obama '08

[NYCGirl]

47. FYI, that guy is a Catholic priest with his own congregation. Obama does not

go to that church.

[knixphan]

46. for your republican buddies.

Keating. Five.
Prescott. Bush.

Which candidate, which PARTY - gives more pause?

[dethl]

51. So if any priest says anything that can be used against anybody....

Then how on earth does anyone get elected to public office?

Your 'publican buds need to go sit on it and rotate. Guilt by association is a failed tactic. Go read up on McCarthyism.