Am I the only idiot on this board? Let's share.

[msallied]

I'll be the first to admit that I had forgotten the names of the battles won by the south in the Civil War. I remember learning but now can't recall exactly everything accomplished by Archimedes or the exact philosophies of Plato without looking them up first. I can't remember the names of all the Nazis prosecuted in Nuremberg. I can't for the life of me recall the words or parameters of the Treaty of Versailles, and I just might not have remembered that Auschwitz was liberated by Russia.

Why? Probably because I'm not paid to teach those things and keep them within easy reach in my long-term memory. I was taught these things at one time and retained them long enough to ace a test and gain a general understanding of world conflict. If you want details, it doesn't matter how high my IQ is. Chances are, I might have to do some research and get back to you. If I'm talking on the spot and trying to make a point by the trauma of war, I might screw up a historic fact. For instance, I could quote the Millgram Experiment in order to illustrate exactly why the troops in Abu Ghraib did what they did to those prisoners or why even the Nazis cooperated with Hitler to the degree that they did, but if I hadn't been recently been studying Psychology, I might have accidentally referenced the Stanford Prison Study instead. It would have been wrong and I might have taken some shit by experts in the field, but I would have admitted it, corrected myself (like Obama did), and moved on. I'm no less knowledgeable about Psychology because of the mistake. It's just that in my experiences in speaking off the cuff, I too have been known (especially if I'm particularly tired or talked out as I'm sure almost all of these people are by now) to fudge something irrelevant. You know, like Obama did.

It's called being human.

[monmouth]

1. Great post and of course, you are correct. When people have nothing,

well, they just have nothing. Desperation.

[kenny blankenship]

2. Also, if you asked Americans to identify where Auschwitz was on a map

with only national borders drawn on it, with the names of the countries, then probably 99.9% of Americans would get it wrong.

[WinkyDink]

5. Don't hurt your arm with that patting.

[msallied]

7. Shit, ask most Americans what Auschwitz even IS and they'll get it wrong.

[kenny blankenship]

29. I may be optimistic but I think most Americans recognize the name Auschwitz

and they know who did what to whom there, and they know it was wrong on a cosmic scale, even if they are wrong about where Auschwitz is actually located. All right let's narrow that down to people who watch the news and/or people who vote. Most of the electorate knows - they know the important part. The first two points --the who and the why--are the important facts, while the fact that Auschwitz was located in Poland only becomes newsworthy in America if you then say something like: "Back when my Grandfather marched into Germany to liberate the inmates of the Auschwitz concentration camp..." Then all of a sudden you are in for huge criticism because a vanishingly small percentage of people know you made a factual error, even without any intention to mislead.

[msallied]

32. I used to be optimistic as well, but then I saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0RH0cYs4lw&feature=related

[kenny blankenship]

46. Well that certainly shut me up.

that's too painful to watch all the way through.

[msallied]

53. I know. It's nauseating and embarrassing.

[PermanentRevolution]

57. Yeah, but you gotta remember...

You don't know how many people they interviewed who got those questions right. They set out to do a humor piece on stupid Americans and, while there's plenty of available fodder, I'll put money that they got just as many, or more, sensible and correct answers that were left on the editing room floor. So don't get TOO nauseated...

[JuniperLea]

59. Exactly

People are too willing to believe what they find on the YouTubes... or in the newspapers... or on the TV... or on the InterTubes.

[msallied]

69. When you couple that with national averages in Americans' knowledge

or lackthereof in things like geography and world events, things that have been statistically measured, and the fact that our educational system compared to other nations is severely lacking, I'd say that Americans (as a whole, mind you... there are brilliant individuals in this country and a lot of generally smart folks, as this board alone tends to prove more often than not) are... well... not that smart. In fact, our culture's mostly implicit disdain toward academia proves that.

I guess what I'm saying is, perhaps we're somewhere in between the two extremes. The previous poster was, I think, too optimistic, and maybe I was being too pessimistic. I'm thinking that we could be doing a hell of a lot better in this country.

[Gore1FL]

70. Its a party game!

where you try to ausch witz your opponents!

right?

[msallied]

71. *rimshot*

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

3. Non-issue. The mistake was acknowledged and correct. Time to move on.

[WinkyDink]

4. Speaking of one's family ought to mean more to one than a mere academic study.

Nobody forced the anecdote on Obama.

That said, I admire his great-uncle.

[msallied]

6. Oh come the hell off it.

It was at least a relevant anecdote. Not like, say, referencing the assassination of RFK when trying to justify running a late campaign.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

8. I had been lied to

purposefully about many "facts" regarding my family. Because I parroted some of these until a young adult does that make me evil? It was not until a family member did all the heavy lifting in the genealogy department that I found out I had been sold some pretty strange "facts."

Obama had been told stories by family and somehow got the facts wrong. It happens. He did not try to mislead anyone.

[msallied]

9. Exactly. I had been told that my grandfather fought in the Korean war most of my life

by certain relatives when he actually never left stateside during the war, but was merely enlisted. That's a huge mistake and/or lie. At least Obama's story can actually be verified as truthful even if a couple of the details were wrong.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

15. My stepfather's

grave marker has WWII and Korean War Veteran on it.

Fact - Dad did not leave the US to fight in Korea and he was a few years too young to be in WWII. He did serve stateside during the Korean Conflict. I pointed this out but was told to shut up.

I know he would have never wanted that on his tombstone but there it is. And I am the bad person for pointing it out.

:shrug:

[msallied]

21. That really sucks. :(

[Withywindle]

74. Ain't that the truth.

It was also pointed out very eloquently in a lot of threads last night that a lot of people who have experienced nightmarish things in war, like Obama's great-uncle, don't necessarily want to chit-chat about it all the time, and might have only told the relevant details once or twice if at all, and family history is a game of intergenerational "telephone" anyway.

[eppur_se_muova]

83. "Daddy said a LOT of things."

This is how one of my uncles let us know not to believe everything we had heard. :)

[grace0418]

31. My own father was a WWII vet. I do not recall all the places he went and things he did.

If I were to tell a story about him, the details might not be exact but the important parts would be correct. At least Obama isn't claiming something that didn't happen at all, just the wrong camp. Anyone remember a little story about sniper fire?

[cliffordu]

54. Will you get the fuck off this??

"Any slime we can find"

Kitchen sink indeed.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

10. Oh...

BTW - there are plenty of idiots on this board.

[msallied]

11. Yes, but how many are actually willing to admit it? lol n/t

[QueenOfCalifornia]

18. I am not admitting it

never....


ever.


:rofl:

[sandnsea]

12. Some of us weren't taught an awful lot about Russia & WWII

I know I wasn't. Oh sure, they were there, doing something or other, but that was about it. If we acknowledged the role of Russia - why how could we hold this over the heads of Europeans for decades. You know, the old, you'd all be speaking German routine. That kind of goes lame when you teach that Russia liberated the first concentration camp.

I was certainly taught about Auschwitz. I don't know that I was ever taught Russia liberated it. And I took college history too.

[msallied]

16. You make a great point. History is often taught with a slant on it, that's for sure.

Besides, Russia was one of our allies at the time. Whether they liberated it or we did to me is moot. They were liberated by the "good" guys. Nuff said. I might miss the question on Jeopardy, but at least a lot of us are learning something from this faux debacle. lol

[sniffa]

13. Oooh, a Civil War trivia thread?

I'm game! :bounce:

A recent question I gave about the American Revolution: Where was the Battle Of Bunker Hill fought?

[msallied]

20. It actually occurred on

Breed's Hill.

Of course I just looked that up. lol I feel like I'm learning so much lately! :)

My Civil and Revolutionary War history is really rusty. I haven't taken been schooled on it in years.

[sniffa]

25. CHEATER!!1! (here's a Civil War one)

What song was played at Abraham Lincoln's inauguration, and what song was played at Jefferson Davis's inauguration (first one for each)?

[msallied]

30. Ummm... Don't Stop Believin by Journey?

It's gotta be either that or Hollaback Girl by Gwen Stefani.

[sniffa]

39. Dixie (for both)

Not from the Mason-Dixon Line as commonly, and mistakenly believed.

The best guess is that it comes from the Louisiana currency of the ten dollar bill, Dix.

[PermanentRevolution]

22. Breed's Hill!

Do I win?

[sniffa]

24. You win 2nd prize

But really, you win first prize since the winner admitted to cheating.

:D

[PermanentRevolution]

26. Yay!

I swear I didn't actually have to Google. When your parents are a National Park Ranger and a history teacher, you learn these things...

[msallied]

27. Cheating is harsh! I merely sought academic reinforcement! LOL!

[sniffa]

28. Well, there's more for you to be reinforced with

What was Stonewall Jackson's favorite fruit (hint: his soldiers would bring him one or more to curry favor)?

[msallied]

34. Oh that's easy!

Peaches!

Phew... I was really worried for myself there for a second. lol

[sniffa]

40. Do you want the real answer?

:D

ps: I'm enjoying this subthread.

[msallied]

43. You mean I got it wrong? Crap! lol

[Zynx]

36. Breed's Hill, though the British did continue to rout the Americans through Bunker Hill.

[sniffa]

50. Very true

I salute you.

:patriot:

Name at least 2 meals that Benedict Arnold's ragged bunch of recruits were forced to eat on their poorly thought out land crossing through Maine to Canada?

[Zynx]

66. I know they ate a dog and I think their own shoes at one point.

[sniffa]

75. Wow, you're good

Again, :patriot:

They also turned their shoes into two meals - boiled shoe, and shoe broth.

[onehandle]

14. I remember everything.

As long as I have the Google at my fingertips.

That's why I got an iPhone.

[msallied]

17. Hear hear! I'm a friggen genius behind the laptop. lol

[Coexist]

19. I am constantly trying to spell independent with an a.

thank you spell check.

[msallied]

23. As long as you don't spell "definitely" with an "a."

That is one misspelling that just irks me to no end. lol

[grannylib]

33. I'm in: I'm an idiot. I've been known to mess up family lore many

times; one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't have a tape recorder going more often when I was talking with my folks about "the good old days" and listening to them reminisce. It would have been great to have those stories in their voices, for my kids and grandkids to listen to, and I'd have the reference to straighten out, "Was it this uncle or that who got his finger cut off in the boxcar door?" or "Which one of the great-grand-aunts gave birth on the walk from Michigan to Iowa, and whose child was one of the 23 survivors out of a group of over 40 who set out on that journey?"

The stories I now tell my grandkids are true in their essence, but I'm sure I've botched details many times.

[msallied]

42. I could have said this almost exactly.

There are so many stories shared in families, as that "telephone game" we all played in childhood teaches all of us, facts usually end up being distorted as stories as passed down from person to person.

[JuniperLea]

35. IQ doesn't mean you know everything...

It just means you have the ability to figure things out... like looking up those facts.

I honestly think this was a very minor slip, as were most of the dumbass things both candidates have said. The only thing that bothers me at all is that at this late in the game, with all the fighting and mud slinging that has gone on before, you'd think both candidates would be more cautious. There is no excuse for lack of caution.

[msallied]

37. It's hard to be cautious when you truly believe the anecdote you're using is accurate.

[JuniperLea]

41. No excuse...

Even your own words should be self-vetted at this point... which isn't easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

[msallied]

44. I think we put some pretty unrealistic expectations on politicians as it is.

They are not perfect, as we all know. Expecting perfection usually results in disappointment.

[JuniperLea]

47. Pft... we don't do half of what...

"The Other Side" will do to them! This is the school of hard knocks... thinking on your feet is critical.

I don't expect perfection, but I do expect the truth.

[msallied]

52. He did tell the truth.

[JuniperLea]

61. After the fact

He should have known the truth full well before he said anything.

[JuniperLea]

45. This reminds me of all the stories my great granny told

About how she was a Mayflower descendant. We all just figured it was one of "those" family stories, so when she and her daughter (my grandmother) wanted me to help them research, I drug my feet, thinking their old timey story would be put to death by the truth. Well, a few months later, with the help of the LDS, Granny was proved right. I was shocked. Still, I wouldn't have told that story to my kids unless I knew full well that they were indeed Mayflower descendants.

[sandnsea]

48. If his uncle hadn't been in the war at all

it would have been comparable to some of the "dumbass things" said in this campaign. Let's not pretend this is a serious error, it's not.

[JuniperLea]

62. It is every bit as serious as any other issue

That the public, or the Republicans might question. Sorry, the rest of the world doesn't carry around your little sliding scale of what is worse than the next.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

65. I'm sorry the world doesn't too

I apparently have a lot higher standards than I ever realized. I can at least recognize the difference between lying about sniper fire and mixing up an historic event that really took place. Maybe if more people could, this world wouldn't be in such a damn mess.

[JuniperLea]

81. Hillary's stupidity doesn't help Obama

Or your argument. It only makes the whole deal petty.

[cyndensco]

49. I agree.

I am an Obama supporter and was upset when I heard that he had made this blunder. It is not a biggie, not a deal-breaker, and personally, I am not concerned that his uncle served in any capacity (though I guess some would consider it a plus for his candidacy).

I just wish he or his staff could check all of his facts. The PTB are waiting to pounce on him for any and everything. He is only human, and mistakes are bound to be made, but he does not have to give anyone any fodder to use against him.

[JuniperLea]

58. Well said...

My point exactly, but you said it so much better.

I'm a Dem supporter... I'll vote for the Dem in the GE, but that's it.

One thing I have really appreciated about Obama is that he is moving on to the real battle... he is going toe to toe with McCain, and that's exactly as it should be, IMHO. Going after anything about Clinton at this point is a huge waste of time. Fighting the real fight now, with McCain, gives him a leg up and it SHOULD help to refocus.

[yellerpup]

38. Libraries and the internet are there for that very reason.

Nobody remembers everything. Good points, well said. :kick:

[lisa58]

51. Not while I'm here!

[IsItJustMe]

55. I was told many stories by family members about relatives of old and went around repeating them.

Later on I often found out that the gist of the stories were correct, but the dates and locations were not. This is common as hell and I bet everyone here has a similar story.

[AZ Criminal JD]

56. Are you running for president?

And creating stories to get people to vote for you? No, I didn't think so.

[Gore1FL]

73. He didn;t create a storey... he got the location wrong

and his point was medical treatment for soldiers.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. no: it is only called being human and a mistake if Obama does it

If clinton does it, she is an evil lying bitch who should drop out and give up her Senate seat.

[Richard Steele]

67. Sorry, I can't hear you over all the sniper fire.

:eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

68. That is exactly what I mean.

Had Obama been treated the same way Clinton is treated, it would be a different race.

She must do everything he does, but backwards and in high heels.

[Richard Steele]

72. You mean Hillary should get a free pass for BLATANTLY LYING. That's what you mean.

You mean Obama must be pilloried for every honest mistake
and simple slip of the tongue. That's what you mean.

See? I'm already well aware of "what you mean".
You've made it so very clear, time and time again,
how could I not be?

[Evergreen Emerald]

77. That's it...when Clinton does it--you call her a "liar." When Obama does it

you call it a "mistake."

[Richard Steele]

78. No, I call her a liar when she deliberately says things she knows to be untrue. Different.

That's quite different from "making a mistake", as Obama did
in this instance. Mistakes and lies are not the same thing,
as any sane and intelligent person knows.

When Hillary has made mistakes, I've called her MISTAKEN. Her claim
regarding "sniper fire" was no mistake. (Unless you're arguing
that she has some mental impairment which caused her to genuinely
believe she dodged sniper fire on that occasion, of course.)

[Evergreen Emerald]

79. You are spinning.

That is the difference. You spin for Obama and forgive him. You spin against Clinton and hate her.

[Richard Steele]

80. Spinning? If we got you into some diamond-tipped shoes, you'd be in Beijing by Saturday.

The things you post are a wonder to behold.

[Raejeanowl]

63. I Forget How Many U.S. States We Have All The Time

:sarcasm:

[oxbow]

64. hell, i'll admit it. i forget my cousins names sometimes. I have 50 em though...

on my mom's side, just as many on my pa's. Guess i'm just another fellow idiot for obama, msallied :hi:

[shadowknows69]

76. Oooh oooh I know one!!!

Bull Run? I think maybe Antietam as well. Without googling.

[Iceburg]

82. But ... if you were asked to deliver a speech and given several weeks

if not months in advance to prepare for it, AND you had a team on salary to help you research and edit that speech, I would hope that you not only could name the battle won but know whether or not it was your uncle, great uncle or cousin 2nd removed who had participated in which battle.

I find Obama and his supporters dreadfully uninformed about geography, and history. He's only marginally better than Bush in his knowledge on those subjects. My my my ...the bar has been permanently lowered.

Where are the "smart people" who claim to be propping him up --- they are not writing his speeches, and they sure as hell aren't at DU.