Many intelligent, liberal, and decent Americans were fooled by * over Iraq

[MoonRiver]

Most of US on DU were not among their midst. But, within the larger population of Americans, I personally experienced, in all its angst, an example of one who was: my husband. Let me explain as much as I dare on a public Internet board about this man. He is probably the smartest individual I have ever intimately known. He is internationally renowned in his particular academic niche. (I won't state exactly what that is, but I can tell you it involves incredibly advanced math.) He is also progressive and despises * as much as I.

Anyway, brilliant as this man is he was completely bamboozled by *'s arguments for invading Iraq. I, of course, even with my more modest intellectual claims to fame, knew, after reading information on the Internet, what the truth was. I understood from the get go that "Niger" was a false and even crude rational for the invasion. I tried to beat some sense, :D, into this otherwise brilliant mind, but to no avail. He was fixated on the idea that Saddam was the worst threat to the world and must be taken out. I sometimes, though not really seriously, worried that our arguments, which were often incredibly intense, might actually split us up. At some point, I stfu for the sake of my marriage, and instead just ranted on DU (thanks guys for being here!)

He changed after it became abundantly clear that there were no WMD, and the truth started coming out about the con job that had been played on him and many others. Now we can talk Iraq and hold hands at the same time!

I guess my point to this long rant is that we shouldn't be too hard on Kerry. More people than we on this board can even imagine were completely convinced that Saddam was the devil incarnate. They felt that because *I, Clinton, and *II all labeled Saddam as world enemy numero uno, he must be. And, as I have testified, even within the most intellectual and progressive academic elite, this occurred.

[MadHound]

1. Well there is one caveat to your story

Your husband wasn't charged with the duty to represent the will, the wishes of the people who elected him, his constituency. Kerry was, and he failed miserably in that, his prime job duty.

Messages were running 280-1 against the IWR, major polls were showing that people wanted to hold up with force until the inspectors finished their job, millions of people across the country, and worldwide protested widely and repeatedly against it. And yet Kerry abdicated his duties as Senator, and made a politically expedient vote, based on his wish to run for the highest office, rather than the wishes of his employers. Sorry, but that is bullshit, Kerry should have done his job, instead of worrying about future job opportunities.

[yardwork]

4. Remember that the vote took place in October

and it was contingent on Saddam Hussein not complying. As a result of the vote, Hussein did start to comply.

The fault lies with BushCo for going ahead and invading the following March.

[MoonRiver]

5. I forgot to mention that my husband is Jewish.

That was actually a big factor regarding his Irai delusion. Isn't Kerry Jewish? Aren't many Northeasterners Jewish? I know there were incredible numbers of protestors in this country and around the world. I was among them, and wish Kerry hadn't voted the way he had. But, I do have a personal understanding about the dynamics behind why he did.

[Classical_Liberal]

10. The majority of Jews were against the Iraq war.

so I don't see what that had to do with it actually. Though the Jewish leadership does seem to like it more than ordinary Jews do. Many Jewish organizations like ADL, AIPAC and Simon Weisonthal, are as neocon stacked as the pundit pages.

[MoonRiver]

12. All I can do is relate my personal experience.

Obviously my husband does not represent all Jews in this matter.

[Warpy]

13. Agreed, but the pressure inside the Beltway was intense.

Not only that, but Congress was bamboozled into thinking that all the combined intelligence agencies of the mighty US and UK knew more than a bunch of rabble on the internet. Face it, it was quite a persuasive argument, that insiders with state of the art listening devices and other gadgetry would know more than a bunch of unwashed geeks sitting at keyboards.

No, I don't fault Kerry for that vote. He really didn't think Bush would go charging in half cocked and with no plan for the peace, nobody did. Bush's monstrous arrogance and incompetence has surprised even his severest critics.

I do know that Bush hasn't a clue what to do about it now. I hope Kerry won't fall prey to the type of hubris that kept us pouring more men and money into Vietnam over 10 years, trying to win that unwinnable war. The point is that we know what Bush will do. We can still hope for Kerry to do better.

[Sequoia]

2. My family/friend back east was the same way

and called me all sorts of vile names, like hippie, tree-hugger, and liberal, oh..and NAIVE. My real smart "Masters degree" brother. I told them they were in Bush blacked-out land and I was the one who actually served in the military, not them.

[yardwork]

3. I agree with you.

I didn't believe Shrub at the time but that is because I already had him pegged as a liar. Many decent and intelligent people preferred to give him the benefit of the doubt, and it is to their credit that they have high expectations of our elected (or nearly elected) leaders.

In any case, a vote against allowing the president the option of invading as-needed (which is what that vote was about) would have been political suicide for most senators and congressmen during that post 9/11 period of hysteria. Only mavericks representing maverick constituencies could get away with it, or politicians who already planned to retire soon.

I personally suspect that Kerry knew it was a lot of hooey at the time, but being a consummate politician who was already running for president, he was not about to commit political suicide.

We should not expect politicians to be more than politicians. We can and should expect them to be forthright, but we can't expect them to change their spots.

[Classical_Liberal]

7. I don't believe it would have been suicide

Most Americans were against it. More would have been against if Dems had spines, and spoke out earlier. Kerry said today he would have voted for it even with out a wmd threat, so there is a very good reason people are pissed.

[soothsayer]

6. I think it's what Teresa H. meant by not showing our face of fear, but

of hope (ok, i've sort of forgotten what she said, but she DEFINITELY implied that we've acted irrationally as a country---and some, like your hubby, supported our aggression---cuz we became so afraid of the world after 9-11).

That's what I've maintained, too, that we are just acting SCARED, not brave. Preemptive wars are for sissies.

But i wonder why so many of us knew this was phony war with phony evidence, and that powell's diagram's looked like someone's first grader drew them...?

[MoonRiver]

11. Had I not been part of this Internet community,

which I only joined after Selection 2000, I would not have known either. I should be mad, I guess, that my husband didn't listen to me or read the many links I sent him. But, I believe that his Jewishness took over in a totally irrational manner regarding Saddam. He felt that Saddam was the greatest threat to Israel in this world. I being a goyim, :D, couldn't quite relate (although I used to wish I were Jewish as a kid, go figure).

[cynatnite]

8. Doubtful

I can understand it.

I never supported the invasion at all. I couldn't find a rational reason to support it. But I had doubts. The State of the Union, Powell's UN statement and the 'evidence' and talking to my uncle who is an avid Bush supporter. He's one of the smartest people I know. Two B.A.'s and a Master's degree. He went on and on about why it was a good thing...used some philosophy and between that and the other stuff, I was having doubts about my own arguments against it.

But then Bush went and gave the finger to the international community. That did it. I was completely against the invasion all the way.

Everything I thought would come true, has except for one thing. Destabilization of the entire region which the verdict is still out on that one.

With the recent talk of Iran, it looks like I was completely right when this whole thing started.

I do wish I was wrong. This fucking war on terror has cost too much and Bush fed it more fuel.

Cyn:)

[Classical_Liberal]

9. Intelligent maybe, well informed no.

also Kerry isn't sorry, and is in trouble today because he said he would have voted for it even without the threat of WMD.

[Selwynn]

14. Not that many were actually fooled...

...but a lot chose collaboration with the "enemy" rather than standing up for what they knew to be right.

[MoonRiver]

15. Well, that was definitely NOT my husband's position!

He adamantly believed it was not just right, but necessary, to destroy Saddam.

[Selwynn]

16. Yeah, it happens... :) Hopefully he knows how wrong he was.

[MoonRiver]

17. He does!

:bounce:

[Stuckinthebush]

18. I have mixed feelings about this

Yes, a number of intelligent, decent people were fooled, but many, many more were not. Most academicians I know were not fooled from the beginning because they did their homework on this one. This is not to say that your husband was lazy, but that he accepted that the American media post 9/11 was still doing their job - they weren't.

I also know some intelligent, decent people who were fooled and now are angry at the administration for playing them and the world like they did.

Too many people died and are dying, too much money has been spent, and too much goodwill has been lost to simply do a group hug over this. I know it does absolutely no good to rub people's noses in this failure, but the lesson needs to be learned - never, ever, ever trust the reasons given to you by an administration. Do your homework and insist that the media do their jobs. I pray to every god out there that this never happens again.

[MoonRiver]

19. Let me explain something that might seem irrational to many.

My husband's paternal and maternal grandparents fled Russia because of persecution. He had relatives who were murdered in WWII concentration camps. Because of these factors, I think he just turned a blind eye to reality regarding Iraq. It was frustrating to me in the extreme. But, I do understand something about what led him to take the pro-war stance.

He understands what went down now, and is doing everything he can to educate others about this scam * perpetrated on US.

[Stuckinthebush]

20. Proud of him for becoming an activist on this thing

You know what? It takes guts to say, "Damn, I was very, very wrong about that.", and then go out and work hard to educate people on it.

Good for him.

[MoonRiver]

21. Yeah, that's my guy!

:loveya:

[VirginiaDem]

23. I was fooled

I'll admit it. I'm new here but I've been lurking for quite awhile. I didn't want to post because I'm just not as left as most here (and I'm not using that term perjoratively). As a PhD student, I'm a semi-academic. As an International Studies PhD student, I've been right in the thick of it.

I was a lukewarm-only supporter of Dems for a while there because of Iraq. But as it became overwhelmingly obvious that the Iraq war was a mistake, that Bush didn't tell the truth, that Bush et al made terrible decisions throughout, and then refused to admit that they had screwed up, my lukewarm-only support for Kerry was upgraded to redhot. Sometimes a little black-and-white perspective is useful and sometimes nuance is more in order. Obviously in Iraq Kerry's nuance is a far wiser approach than Bush's black-and-white (and incorrect)dichotomy.

Add that to my whole-hearted support for abortion rights, gay rights, progressive taxes and fiscal responsibility and my decision became easy.

Go ahead and flame me if you want but I represent a lot of people who we need/want on board to take back the White House.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

24. Welcome to the board!

[MoonRiver]

25. Thanks for sharing that.

I can completely relate, not because of my opinions former and present, on Iraq, but due to a loved one's perspective. I've learned, through proximity to one, that being an academician is an all consuming job. People doing serious research are passionate and completely focused on their fields of interest. It leaves little time for extracurricular activities such as decoding BFEE's antics. But the bottom line is, we're all in this world together!

:grouphug:

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

22. I have never believed anything Bush Jr. has had to say from

day one. I remember thinking when he got "elected" that he was probably going to go after Iraq, just like his daddy.


BTW
That rocks that your husband has a career in Mathematics! I love Math, which is why I was an engineering major in college. If could afford to go back to school for a master's or ph.d., I'd love to study mathematics.