I'm sorry, but there is no Redemption for Hillary on her Racially Divisive Tactics

[berni_mccoy]

She's now coming out and claiming to take the high-road by saying she doesn't want your vote if you are voting against Obama because he's black (see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6073799&mesg_id=6073799). There's only 86 more delegates at stake from a very small number of primaries. NOW SHE SAYS THIS? Why didn't she say this in Ohio, in Pennsylvania, in West Virginia and Kentucky? She's only exposing herself as an opportunist who used Rovian, racially divisive tactics and then blamed Obama with it by saying he played the race-card.

I'm sorry, when she's wallowed in the manure with the pigs and then tries to wash it off to look like she never did, she still stinks to high-heaven. There is no redemption for Hillary on this from me.

[Ian David]

1. I disagree. If she's the nominee, she's still less racist and divisive than Insane McCain. n/t

[berni_mccoy]

2. She's used the same tactics on Obama that Bush used on McCain in 2000 (remember the "black babies")

[papau]

16. What a bunch of bull - Obama played the race card to benefit himself - and it worked

[berni_mccoy]

18. Nobody but desperate hillbots believe that.

[MethuenProgressive]

26. Only Barack worshipers deny it.

Race Man
by Sean Wilentz
How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton.
Post Date Wednesday, February 27, 2008

More than any other maneuver, this one has brought Clinton into disrepute with important portions of the Democratic Party. A review of what actually happened shows that the charges that the Clintons played the "race card" were not simply false; they were deliberately manufactured by the Obama camp and trumpeted by a credulous and/or compliant press corps in order to strip away her once formidable majority among black voters and to outrage affluent, college-educated white liberals as well as college students. The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so. Rather the Obama campaign and its supporters, well-prepared to play the "race-baiter card" before the primaries began, launched it with a vengeance when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada--and thereby created a campaign myth that has turned into an incontrovertible truth among political pundits, reporters, and various Obama supporters. This development is the latest sad commentary on the malign power of the press, hyping its own favorites and tearing down those it dislikes, to create pseudo-scandals of the sort that hounded Al Gore during the 2000 campaign. It is also a commentary on how race can make American politics go haywire. Above all, it is a commentary on the cutthroat, fraudulent politics that lie at the foundation of Obama's supposedly uplifting campaign.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

[SIMPLYB1980]

43. And they wonder why we are mad.

:shrug:

[Hamlette]

58. You're mad? As in angry?

I am so lost here. I supported Hillary first, last year. Then she started to lie. Yesterday was the absolute lowest any dem has gone in my life time and you are angry at Obama?

She is willing to deligitimize this election to win. Costing us what? A war in Iran? More deaths? Trillions of debt under McCain? Roe v Wade? And for what?

She changed her position. She supported the ban of FL and MI when it happened.

Now, because she is going to lose, she is against it.

How can anyone be more dishonest than that?

I am sick of my politicians lying to me.

I am so over the Clintons and there is no way in hell, after yesterday, I will vote for her.

No

Way

In

Hell.

She doesn't care about anyone but herself. As John Cole said, it's like she and Bill made a bet, how much bullshit can they make the American citizens swallow on their way to the presidency.

Too much for me. When you get your fill, come on over. Honesty and reality is rather nice.

[Raineyb]

74. The author of that piece is a blatant Clinton supporter

And as you well know that makes his conclusions suspect. You expect this to be taken seriously?

Regards

[jonestonesusa]

83. OK - let's talk about this editorial...

and it makes sense to keep in mind first that it is an editorial, a particular interpretation of the actual facts that is favorable to the charges, beat to death, that Obama "played the race card," an outworn phrase.

The first part of it is focused on how Obama responded to Clinton's health care plan and the issue of NAFTA. None of this has anything to do with race.

Then the article gets philosophical, relating the race-baiter card to a Phillip Roth novel.

The second part of the article discusses the incident where the Clinton campaign staff brought up youthful drug use, so the origin of the dust-up is 100% attributable to the Clinton campaign staff member. The editorial make no sincere effort to speculate on why Clinton's campaign staff would bring this up - it's treated as a random, accidental statement. ???

After that, we get lots of editorializing and philosophizing about the preparation of Obama to do damage control when it came to these issues. Of course they would prepare to do damage control! They are in a competitive campaign against an opponent that does not hesitate to use attack politics and negative campaigning. And, is it unsound to prepare to face issues that will predictably come up, such as Obama's race? The editorial goes on with some of the original conversation about the same INTERNAL campaign memo that came out around South Carolina (this editorial is from February 28). And that's about it except for the one-sided slant that the author gives to this topic.

Instead of speculation and partisan spin on "the race card," I have a better alternative: if you're interested in why black voters and white "elites" turned away from Clinton, why not ask them? There are plenty of such voters right here on DU. If you are open to hearing them, they have mentioned in numerous threads why they do not support Clinton. My take? I really don't think there's a lot of interest among Clinton dead-enders in why so many turned away from this candidate, so at this point, I won't even bother repeating my own explanation. But it's outrageous to keep digging for reasons for Clinton's failed campaign when dozens of posters could provide you an explanation from their own perspective, not to mention exit polling and sounder journalism from many sources other than this TNR piece.

[bvar22]

99. Your source is not credible.

Sean Wilentz endorsed Hillary way back in Nov 2007, and has been a partisan Hillary cheerleader ever since. Even others on the staff at TNR question his credibility.

While searchuing for links disputing your post, I found this wonderful compilation by DUer dailykoff which he/she posted on March 30.

Now that uber-racist and Clinton partisan Sean Wilentz is being relaunched as a World Famous Historian, it might be instructive to see how his fellow New Republic hacks assess two of his TNR articles, including his infamous "Race Man" article of Feb. 27:

1. Wilentz's first article: "The Delusional Style in American Punditry"
by Sean Wilentz, TNR, Post Date Wednesday, December 19, 2007:

Forget experience: Opinion-slingers are mooning over Barack Obama's instincts. Don't they remember how badly that worked out last time? Every now and then in American politics, normally balanced people get swept up by delusions of greatness about a presidential candidate, based on an emotional attachment to the candidate's oratory or image.

link: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1f22d28c-ced2...


2. Cass Sunstein's denunciation: "A Mere Smear: Sean Wilentz's unfair attack on Barack Obama and his supporters"
by Cass R. Sunstein, TNR, Post Date Thursday, December 27, 2007:

Wilentz does deserve considerable credit--this is one impressive smear. Saying nothing about Obama's career or positions, Wilentz announces that there is a "delusional style" in American political punditry, typified by support for inexperienced, unqualified candidates on the basis of the delusional belief that those candidates have good "instincts." In Wilentz' view, the presidential candidacy of George W. Bush was merely the latest beneficiary of the delusional style.

link: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=129d0545-4db1...
................................

3. Wilentz's notorious "Race Man" article: "Race Man: How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton"
by Sean Wilentz, TNR, Post Date Wednesday, February 27, 2008:

After several weeks of swooning, news reports are finally being filed about the gap between Senator Barack Obama's promises of a pure, soul-cleansing "new" politics and the calculated, deeply dishonest conduct of his actually-existing campaign. But it remains to be seen whether the latest ploy by the Obama camp--over allegations about the circulation of a photograph of Obama in ceremonial Somali dress--will be exposed by the press as the manipulative illusion that it is.

link: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2...


4. Jason Zengerle's rebuttal: "Did Obama Play the Race Card?"
by Jason Zengerle, TNR, 27.02.2008:

Over on the home page, you can find Sean Wilentz's long brief trying to make the case that Obama has played the race card in his campaign--by accusing the Clintons of playing the race card. Or, as Wilentz puts it, by "deliberately, falsely, and successfully portray Clinton and her campaign as unscrupulous race-baiters." I'm unconvinced. To see why, let's take one of Wilentz's examples:

link: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/0...
................................

The New Republic is not exactly famous for objectivity, so for two of its writers to accuse Wilentz of manufacturing racist propaganda is pretty damning.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5314720

Racist or not, there can be no doubt that Hillary was more than willing to use racism to advance her political agenda. Instead of confronting Racism in Appalachia, Hillary fanned the flames...Her choice.

Obama has repeatedly challenged Americans to rise above the remaining vestiges of Racism.

Hillary has already LOST this election and any lingering respect.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Swamp Rat]

100. You beat me to it.

Operation Chaos dittoheads are already long in the tooth. ;)

[Political Heretic]

120. This will now be the 87th time that I've asked someone for specific examples of how he did this

Yes, I've kept track. It is a point in and of itself.

So far, I've never gotten a response. Would you like to give some specific examples of how Obama "played the race card" - maybe first define what "the race card" is - so that I can take a look at them?

[Carolina]

130. oh puhleeze

what a load of manure. Go bathe, maybe you'll wash away some of that Shrillary scum.

[Skidmore]

17. Right now, Hillary Clinton is the Democratic Party's weakest link.

In her quest for power, she has opened the doors to admit elements that the party had fought decades against. She has made it permissible to for the language of prejudice to be used within the party and does not promote constructive dialogue to further eliminate this type of bigotry from our culture. I see no difference between the wink-wink and nod to the Southern strategy as a campaign tactic in this party than when it was used by Nixon.

[Cha]

52. hilary's a dino..a Dino Losers' Club rep and I think

it's time to realize she has no Democratic Principles. She's a lieman, a zellout, and a mccain lover.

[Darth_Kitten]

72. You sure were raised by gracious individuals, huh?

n/t

[FredScuttle]

84. We were raised to recognize con men (and women), liars and craven egomaniacs

n/t

[hendo]

53. Hillary Clinton, "You are the Weakest Link"

[Duke Newcombe]

19. Seeing as that's such a low threshold to me, I don't think that comparison...

...is something to be embraced by Hillary or her supporters.

Duke

[berni_mccoy]

20. Well Said!

[Cha]

49. She's already lost or hasn't that entered

your brainwaves yet? Ergo, she won't be the nominee.

[me b zola]

55. If she's the nominee...of what?

Seriously, she's done.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[otohara]

71. Ambassador of Appalachia

she can start the healing there.

[Prophet 451]

65. McCain's a lot of things but he's not racist n/t

[Ian David]

66. Start with googling "McCain" and "Gook." n/t

[Prophet 451]

70. I'm not sure that's fair

Look, I can't stand McCain but he spent years being tortured by the Vietnamese. He'd have to be some kind of fucking saint to not bear a grudge over that.

[Ian David]

81. What if he'd been tortured in Somalia? n/t

[Prophet 451]

89. Huh?

Sorry, I don't follow your arguement.

[Ian David]

90. What if he'd been captured and tortured in Somalia? Where his captors would have been black?

Would it be okay for him to use "The N Word?"

[Prophet 451]

92. No and I'm not saying it's ok for him to use "gook"

I AM saying that, no matter how unpleasent it may be, it's somewhat understandable. Human nature is rarely as forgiving or as reasonable as we'd like it to be.

[FredScuttle]

94. Racism is never "understandable"

For him to use the word "gook" in this day and age is beyond the pale. I don't how much the man was tortured....Adm Stockdale seemed to get by without using a vicious, ugly epithet to describe his captors.

[Ian David]

104. Considering what he calls his wife, I wonder how badly SHE tortured him?

"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you c*nt."-- John McCain to his pill-stealing, home-wrecking, ex-mistress/second wife, Cindy McCain

[Prophet 451]

127. Alright, conceded n/t

[eridani]

103. He would be dead if a Vietnamese villager hadn't pulled him out of the water

--and convinced his fellow villagers not to beat him to death.

[Ian David]

105. And then when he went back to Vietnam, he was a total dick to the guy. n/t

[Prophet 451]

126. Alright, conceded n/t

[Ian David]

128. The Google is your friend. Insane McCain is a racist.

John McCain's racist remarks watch!
— John McCain's racist remarks. Watch him smile and blink as he proudly mocks and ridicules the entire civilization of Islam.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gjGpM4C62-c

Published on Thursday, March 2, 2000 in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
John McCain's Racist Remark Very Troubling
by Katie Hong
http://www.commondreams.org/views/030200-104.htm

John McCain Makes Racist Comment to an African-American Father
http://michigandemocrat.typepad.com/michigandemocratnet/2008/02/john-mccain-mak.html


McCain’s Racist Ties
http://www.stopjohnmccain2008.com/category/racism/


More:
http://www.google.com/search?q=mccain+racist

[Prophet 451]

137. I already conceded this one n/t

[Ian David]

138. Oh, yeah. Thanks. n/t

[WA98296]

3. I AGREE. She is NO BETTER than the worst of the GOP tactics.

[IndianaJones]

4. is the redemption for Obama's homphobic tactics the fact that it is more widely accepted bigotry? nt

[berni_mccoy]

5. That's up to you. Why don't you write a post about it.

[s0ulablaze]

25. You're misinformed and/or misguided

Obama is the only candidate running for president who wants to
extend equal rights to All people, including gays and
lesbians!  On what are you basing your comment?  

[QC]

78. Well, except for marriage. That would offend his chosen deity,

so he can't extend that right to us. But he is willing to give us "a basic set of rights" (sounds like a training bra or a tricycle, doesn't it?), so that makes everything OK.

[MethuenProgressive]

54. "It's not bigotry if it's Obama endorsed bigotry."

And after all, the gay-haters have more money to contribute than the gays.

[bigtree]

6. oh, but there is. Maybe not for you. But, you'll see. We're in a bubble here.

Most folks understand that she's not a racist. Funny how even her appeal here is being portrayed as racism. Weird stuff on the internet.

[berni_mccoy]

7. I never said she was a racist. I said she's only used racially divisive tactics. She's *using*

people's racism as a means to garner support where she wouldn't normally have it.

[ellacott]

10. It's sad that people don't understand the difference

People have been trying to tell them that there's a difference between being a racist and using racially divisive tactics.

[berni_mccoy]

11. They see what they want to see and will not see or hear the truth.

[bigtree]

14. you just can't accept that folks can have different opinions

about whether racially divisive tactics were used by the Clinton campaign. I don't see any evidence that they used racially divisive tactics. I don't agree with the characterizations that have been presented.

And, if I employed your standard in this argument, I would conclude that YOU are refusing to see the 'truth' of MY view. How absurd. We just disagree.

[berni_mccoy]

15. It's not an opinion, but a well-documented pattern of tactics used by her campaign

It's been reported as well, so don't try to excuse it as a differing of opinion.

[bigtree]

21. you can't get away with citing 'documentation' of those statements

they are still open to interpretation and I'll be damned if you or anyone else will decide how I feel about them. If you want to decide I'm just not as smart or as truthful as you because we disagree that's your loss. I can't control that and I don't want to. I can't believe how many folks here believe they have a lock on the 'truth' surrounding disputed statements in this election. What a crock.

[berni_mccoy]

22. I never said anything about your feelings. Stop putting words or opinions into my posts.

The truth is what it is. You certainly have turned a blind eye to it.

[bigtree]

107. what a joke. You own the truth? YOU'VE turned a blind eye to MY interpretation of her statements

Yet you call your opinion TRUTH. What utter bullshit. You don't need a discussion group, you need a board of worshipers who will kow tow to whatever you declare as TRUTH.

[JohnnyLib2]

30. I sure agree with the "open to interpretation" comment.

Webb gave his yesterday.

The books written about this year will probably focus on which candidate was more effective in reaching parts of the population--underline effective--and put "charges of racist tactics" as a footnote. Time will tell.

[bvar22]

101. Yes. There is a big difference!

Racism is a product of ignorance.

Using Racism to further you own personal interests is FAR WORSE.
Hillary KNOWS better, but chooses to follow selfish interests by fanning the flames of Racism is a backward part of America, injuring them and America as a whole.

[VotesForWomen]

115. so you're saying people who vote for her are racists? that's even better.

[MethuenProgressive]

62. It's the Plan. That's what the Obama Camp's memo on how to Swiftboat the Clintons was all about.

No normal person thinks the Clintons are racists.

[JohnnyLib2]

8. Thank God we don't have stoning or burning at the stake.

I'm only being partially sarcastic. The great evil powers attributed to HRC don't have any recent parallels in the U.S., IMO. Historically, well,
we all read about it in school.

[berni_mccoy]

9. Talk about Overreacting. Stoning or Burning at the stake? WTF?

[JohnnyLib2]

12. In some quarters, any word or campaign strategy is perceived

as unacceptable if coming from HRC, with overtones of outright evil/manipulation/deviousness and all the rest. The only parallel in my 50 or so years of Democratic affiliation is Rove--and he wasn't a candidate.

[berni_mccoy]

13. I'm not pointing out *any word or campaign strategy*... just one... and it's one no Dem should use

nor any American for that matter. Using race to divide us is just unacceptable.

[JohnnyLib2]

27. I think "beyond redemption" keyed me off.

Overall, I see a need to postpone the dissection of the campaign until we have the Democrat in the White House. In the larger sense, it seems mighty important to hold every Democratic voter possible. We agree on that, yes?

[JohnnyLib2]

28. delete--dupe

[emilyg]

69. Using constant hate to divide us is

just as unacceptable.

[FrenchieCat]

24. She has lost "certain" voters forever. Nothing she can say this week or ever again

will make up for her words and tactics. My children will remember who she really is, no matter what she does to obscure her previous words.

[JohnnyLib2]

29. I don't find any joy in the loss of D votes.

If you are referring to her personal reputation, that's up to you.

We walk a thin line in this area, eh?

[MethuenProgressive]

50. That's true. She's lost the victims of Obama's Swiftboat attacks.

He played the race card, blamed Hillary, and his Followers fell to their knees.

[jonestonesusa]

88. So black voters are automatons that fall to their knees when Obama speaks...

This is what you think and you have "progressive" in your handle?

[MethuenProgressive]

121. Nice Swiftboat tactic. Pretend something was said, and then express outrage.

You think the only victims of Obama's Swiftboat attacks were "black voters"?
Please tell me more about "black voters".

[Carolina]

132. well she is a witch

lol

[MethuenProgressive]

23. How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton

Even before the first caucus met in Iowa, the Obama campaign was ready to play a similar game. In mid-December 2007, one of the Clinton campaign's co-chairs in New Hampshire, Bill Shaheen, remarked entirely on his own on how the Republicans might make mischievous and damaging political use of Obama's admitted use of marijuana and cocaine during his youth. The observation was not especially astute: Since George W. Bush, both the electorate and the press have seemed to be forgiving of a candidate's youthful substance abuse, so long as says he has reformed himself. Nor had the Clinton campaign prompted Shaheen to make his comment. But it was not a harebrained remark, given how the Republicans had once tried to exploit the cocaine addiction of Bill Clinton's brother, Roger, and even manufactured lurid falsehoods about Clinton himself as the member of a cocaine smuggling ring during his years as governor in Arkansas. And it was not in the least a racist comment, as cocaine abuse has afflicted Americans of all colors as well as classes. Indeed, there have been persistent rumors that Bush abused cocaine as well as alcohol during his younger days--charges he addressed in the 2000 campaign by saying that when "he was young and foolish" he had done "foolish" things.

None of the reports at the time about Shaheen's miscue (and the Clinton campaign's decision to relieve him of his ceremonial duties) mentioned anything about racial overtones. Yet the Obama campaign kept stirring things up. After being questioned for ten minutes about the drug allegation on cable television--and repeatedly denying that the national campaign had anything to do with it--Clinton campaign pollster Mark Penn mentioned the word "cocaine" (which was difficult to avoid in the context of the repeated questioning about drugs). "I think we've made clear that the issue related to cocaine use is not something that the campaign was in any way raising, and I think that's been made clear," he said. Obama's campaign aides (as well as John Edwards's) immediately leapt on Penn and chastised him as an inflammatory demagogue for using the word that Obama himself referred to in his memoir as "blow." Since then, Obama's strategists and supporters in the press have whipped the story into a full racialist subtext, as if Shaheen and Penn were the executors of a well-plotted Clinton master plan to turn Obama into a stereotypical black street hoodlum--or, in the words of the fervently pro-Obama and anti-Clinton columnist Frank Rich of the New York Times, "ghettoized as a cocaine user."

The racial innuendo seemed to fade when Obama won his remarkable victory in the Iowa caucuses. With the polling data on the upcoming New Hampshire primary auguring a large Obama triumph, it looked as if the candidate's own appeal might sweep away everything before it. But at the last minute (as sometimes happens in statewide primaries), there was a sudden movement among the voters, this time toward Clinton. Many ascribed it to an appearance by Clinton in a Portsmouth coffee shop on the eve of the vote, where, with emotion, she spoke from the heart about why she is running for president. Others said that misogyny directed at Clinton on the campaign trail as well as on cable television and the Internet turned off women voters. The uprising was certainly sudden: As late as 6 p.m. on primary day, Clinton staff members with whom I spoke were saying that they would consider a loss by ten percentage points or less as a kind of moral victory. But instead, Clinton won outright, amazing her own delighted supporters and galling the Obama campaign.

That evening, the Democratic campaign became truly tangled up in racial politics--directly and forcefully introduced by the pro-Obama forces. In order to explain away the shocking loss, Obama backers vigorously spread the claim that the so-called Bradley Effect had kicked in. First used to account for the surprising defeat of Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley in the California gubernatorial race in 1982, the Bradley Effect supposedly takes hold when white voters tell opinion pollsters that they plan to vote for a black candidate but instead, driven by racial fears, pull the lever for a white candidate. Senior Clinton campaign officials later told me that reporters contacted them saying that the Obama camp was pushing them very hard to spin Clinton's victory as the latest Bradley Effect result. Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson, a cheerleading advocate for Obama, went on television to suggest the Bradley Effect explained the New Hampshire outcome, then backed off--only then to write a column, "Echoes of Tom Bradley," in which he claimed he could not be sure but that, nevertheless, "embarrassed pollsters and pundits had better be vigilant for signs that the Bradley effect, unseen in recent years, has crept back."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

[atufal1c]

31. Obama's campaign aides (as well as John Edwards's) immediately leapt on Penn"

This Sean Wilentz article is bullshit. And becomes more obviously bullshitic every time I look at it. The writer is a Hillary Clinton supporter and Clinton friend, a fact that he rarely brings up on his own.

"Obama's campaign aides (as well as John Edwards's) immediately leapt on Penn and chastised him as an inflammatory demagogue for using the word that Obama himself referred to in his memoir as "blow."

So both Obama's campaign AND his political opponent BOTH say it's bullshit. So really it isn't just the Obama campaign, it is also considered inflammatory by people who would might possibly benefit from the statement?

And can someone explain to me how invoking the Bradley Effect actually HELPS any black candidate, since it essentially says "ignore the positive polls for the black guy, he's going to lose anyway"?

By its very nature, isn't it difficult to make up for the Bradley Effect with sympathy votes?

[berni_mccoy]

33. That article uses absolutely zero facts. The fact is Shaheen painted Obama as a drug dealer

The fact is Bill Clinton blamed Hillary's loss in SC on Black Voters.
The fact is Hillary blamed her loss in LA on Black Voters.
The fact is Ferraro said Obama is "lucky to be black" and she was only forced to resign "because she is white".
The fact is Clinton used religiously divisive tactics, just like she used racially divisive tactics (Muslim emails and "as far as we know")
The fact is that we can go on and on with the facts, but you'll only spout b.s.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. You post spin, distortions, and slurs and cry they are "facts"...

How Axelrod of you.
Billy Shaheen was right, not racist.

Shaheen also expressed his personal misgivings about whether Obama or Edwards would be electable if they became the party's nominee.

Among his concerns about Obama as the nominee, he said in an interview here today, is that his background is so relatively unknown and that the Republicans would do their best to unearth negative aspects of it, or concoct mistruths about it. Shaheen, a lawyer and influential state power broker, mentioned as an example Obama's use of cocaine and marijuana as a young man, which Obama has been open about in his memoir and on the trail.

"The Republicans are not going to give up without a fight ... and one of the things they're certainly going to jump on is his drug use," said Shaheen, the husband of former N.H. governor Jeanne Shaheen, who is planning to run for the Senate next year. Billy Shaheen contrasted Obama's openness about his past drug use -- which Obama mentioned again at a recent campaign appearance in New Hampshire -- with the approach taken by George W. Bush in 1999 and 2000, when he ruled out questions about his behavior when he was "young and irresponsible."

Shaheen said Obama's candor on the subject would "open the door" to further questions. "It'll be, 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?'" Shaheen said. "There are so many openings for Republican dirty tricks. It's hard to overcome."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/12/post_235.html

[berni_mccoy]

35. I'm sorry, but the only fact-challenged individuals here are HRC supporters.

[MethuenProgressive]

36. "The fact is Shaheen painted Obama as a drug dealer" see post above.

[berni_mccoy]

41. Here's a link for you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6075180&mesg_id=6076489

[MethuenProgressive]

45. Sorry, I never click on links from questionable sources.

And there's no source on DU as questionable as you.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Overseas]

59. Because golly gee, he was only warning that OTHER PEOPLE could raise the issue

See, it was just a friendly little three paragraph warning that those awful Republicans might jump on the issue of drug use which Obama had been open about. I remember thinking when that talking point was raised at the time-- "way to float the image, guys." Guess we'd better choose Mrs. Didn't Inhale then.

[SeaLyons]

63. Thanks for posting....

though at this point, our presence and posts seem invisible.

[Raineyb]

77. Bullshit from a bullshit source

is still bullshit.

Regards

[Terri S]

32. I agree 1000%

She truly believes we're all as ill-informed as her base

[DemVet]

37. Racially Divisive Tactics = Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

40. Absolutely. BO's bamboozeled the Believers.

He played the race card and blamed Clinton.

[berni_mccoy]

44. When DemVet responds to a post, it's usually an indicator that the truth hurts

But when MP responds multiple times to a post desperately trying to shut it down, then that's the defacto proof the truth hurts.

[DemVet]

51. "Jump, my Kool-Aid drinkers...I said jump" - Barack Obama

[BlooInBloo]

76. To some, the mere fact of a black man running is itself racially divisive.

[FredScuttle]

86. And the idea that black people would vote for him must mean they're voting on race alone

I mean, look at all the primaries won by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes, Carol Moseley Braun and Shirley Chisolm. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

87. Obviously the history of America is the history of black folks being racist against white folks.

[FredScuttle]

95. And black folks not giving white women the opportunity they alone deserve

especially since white women, particularly SOME white women, have done so much for the po' black folk. Gasp and swoon at the ingratitude!

[BlooInBloo]

96. Indeed. Black men should stop lynching white women!

LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!!!

[FredScuttle]

97. There was but one direction to take it

and you did....brilliant.

[BlooInBloo]

98. :)) It was a team effort.

[indimuse]

124. more like..

[VotesForWomen]

117. yep, and if he gets the nom he will lose because of it.

[emilyg]

38. New day and your

hate filled posts continue.

[MethuenProgressive]

61. Does the sun really ever set on them?

24/7/365.
If only they hated the GOP as much as they Hate Senator Clinton.

[emilyg]

68. I guess they don't have that

much good to post about Obama.

[Bullet1987]

39. She's saying it now because there's no more of the redneck vote

to contend for.

[MethuenProgressive]

42. Look again - there's no proof she said it. The OP links to a DU post about a rumor.

And calls it "fact"...

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[berni_mccoy]

64. Here's your proof:

http://tv.telemundo.yahoo.com/alrojovivo/fotos/1/21052008/71/alrojovivo-conoce-cerca-hillary-clinton.html

And don't try your idiotic refutement of this source that you did in the original post.

[Cha]

56. There's no hilary clinton anymore..just fragments

of different personalities she portrayed to sell herself for the most votes.

Bye hilary.

[SoCalDem]

131. That's exactly right.. the Queen of Appalachia is done with her peeps now

and she's out of ammo, so of course she wants to "make nice" now..:puke:

[Cha]

46. That's right..she's fucked.

And she did it to herself with her own petard.

[ecstatic]

60. She really takes blacks for fools. She's trying to mend fences for 2012

Whoa...too late, lady. You didn't stand with us when it REALLY mattered.

[Darth_Kitten]

73. LOL, if it make you feel happy to play the race card.

The World yawns.

[ecstatic]

75. Right. Maybe I should play the gender card then?

I'm female too! :eyes:

[Raineyb]

80. Didn't you get the memo?

Apparently you can't be both. At least according to the hard core Clinton supporters since they constantly talk about how women won't vote for Obama while forgetting that many of already have. But we're black so it doesn't count.

:crazy:

Regards

[billyoc]

67. Her actions are pure primary challenger GOLD for '12.

I will personally guarantee that every New Yorker will relive every excruciating moment of this vile performance of hers during the 2012 Senate primary here. They will hear her cackling in their sleep.

[NanceGreggs]

110. Just had that very discussion with the husband ...

... a few hours ago. Talking about how many politically-ambitious NY Dems are thinking how easy it will now be to run against her, and take her down with reminders of her own words and actions.

[billyoc]

112. We got 19% of the primary vote from her with an unknown in '06.

I promise it won't be that lopsided in '12. :hi:

[NanceGreggs]

116. And as a born-and-raised NYer ...

... still registered to vote in NY state, I'm more than willing to assist when needed.

:hi:

[Carolina]

134. yes, please get rid of her in 2012

she only used NY for her selfish egotistical quest for power.

[Major Hogwash]

79. Don't worry, man.

People out here in the West, especially in South Dakota and Montana, know what bullshit smells like.

She ain't going to win another primary.

To date, Obama has won 34 primaries/caucuses, Hillary has only won 18.

On June 4th, Obama will have won 37 primaries/caucuses and Hillary will still only have won 18.

She can go to the rules committee, she can even go to the Supreme Court, she lost.
That's really all there is to it.

[Mme. Defarge]

82. Don't leave out OR, WA , ID & AK!

(I think he won Alaska)

[Major Hogwash]

106. We already voted.

I'm talking about the last 3 primaries.

Hillary lost in Idaho big time. She didn't even open an office here.
"It will all be over by February 5th."

Christ, she has no clue how stupid, ignorant, or downright idiotic that sounds now.

[StevieM]

85. Sure there's redemption--you're lying. She never used racially divisive tactics, that was a false

charge made by bad human beings who wanted to smear her in order to secure the nomination for Sen. Obama. And it worked. It's also the reason why so many Clinton backers won't support him. The way he used race to divide our country is unforgivable.

Steve

[Stephanie]

91. She allowed these signs to be displayed at her rallies

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080512/480/1fcae0701d964ffeab2123ec7c13ae65/



http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/cue-the-banjo.html#more

[Jen-MI]

122. Agree!

[TheDonkey]

93. i will donate to a candidate that runs against her in the senate primary

i want her out of office. she is a dispicable person.

[AspenRose]

135. Me too.

.

[Perry Logan]

102. Reality check: Obama the Uniter has got half the party threatening to walk out.

The best way to discover the truth about Obama's campaign is to listen to the accusations his surrogates make against Hillary and then apply them to Obama.

It was, in fact, Obama's gang who practised--not a new style of politics--but old-fashioned Chicago-style politics.

This is pretty easy to verify if you get away from DU.

If Hillary were a tenth the villain her enemies paint her as, she would have no support. But, far from losing a following, she has been kicking Obama's butt--as McCain will likely kick his butt if we nominate the Bammer.

[FredScuttle]

108. "accusations his surrogates make against Hillary..."

Name one. A non-DU one, of course. Name one.

[Political Heretic]

119. What surrogates and what accusations?

[indimuse]

125. GOD... this sounds so Bush like.

I have always used that argument while trying to expose Bush to my RW side of the family! Unreal! including...NOT counting the votes...who knew?

[ccharles000]

109. I disagree I think Hillary has run a great campaign.

[TexasObserver]

111. Agreed.

She won't wash that pig shit out of her clothes and hair THIS election cycle.

[AuntPatsy]

113. I'm curious, do you believe that there are individuals who will not vote

for Obama simply because he is black regardless if he is fully able to handle the job at hand? Your argument is pretty weak to be uspet with Sen Clinton if you do not believe she is dead on that that is a very real possibility and she is not putting it in minds that have not already thought it, I think she is just letting them know she doesn't like it

[Jen-MI]

123. I believe that there are people out there who will not vote for Obama...

not because of race, but because of Obama supporters like many on DU that constantly attack Hillary when it really is not needed! I have not seen as many attacks on Obama as there have been on Hillary. I think many people see how unfair this has really been and will decide not to vote, but instead stay home! What many of these Obama supporters don't realize is that about half of the party supports Hillary and these votes will be needed in November if we want to win. Why do we continue to attack people of our own party?? Aren't we supposed to be on the same team?? I know some will try the, well she started it first bit. Come on...are we in kindergarden? Sometimes I feel like we are stuck there!

and don't start the Hillary lies business...Obama doesn't tell the truth all the time either. Go to factcheck.com and I think you will be surprised! Remember they are both politicians. I think some of us have forgotten that!

[VotesForWomen]

114. you can put that where the sun doesn't shine. O will lose the GE because of this race-baiting.

[Political Heretic]

118. I'm for whatever the Obama campaign decides helps them most in the GE.

If that's Clinton as VP, then so be it!

A little worried about an Obama administration trying to govern with the clinton's over his shoulder, but that's not my call either! :)

[Carolina]

129. no redemption on this

or on IWR

Really, her behavior as well as that of her surrogates is lower than the ocean floor. There is absolutely no redemption.

[Mike L]

133. What race card did Obama play to get 91% of the African American vote? em

[Lilith Velkor]

136. ...