Obama supporters, why are you falling for the Clinton campaign nonsense?

[Tatiana]

Hillary advisers have publicly said that they expect a Dem nominee to be chosen by early June, but it looks like http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080521/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_florida;_ylt=Ak7bmuSTFEl9d0zr4TPE4hGyFz4D">Hillary is envisioning a scenario under which this contest could go all the way to the convention, after all:

BOCA RATON, Fla. - Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is willing to take her fight to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to the convention if the two states want to go that far. In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton was asked whether she would support the states if they continue the fight.

The presidential candidate said Wednesday, "Yes I will. I will, because I feel very strongly about this."

Could this really happen? Could Hillary take the battle over Florida and Michigan all the way to the convention? It's possible, but unlikely.

The next major step along the way is May 31st, when the Rules and Bylaws Committee meets to consider what to do about Florida and Michigan. For reasons that we'll explain here in more detail tomorrow, it's likely that the RBC will successfully vote on some sort of solution to get them seated in some fashion.

If that doesn't happen, the next stop is the Credentials Committee in late June. Hillary supporters are outnumbered on the Cred Committee by Obama supporters. DNC chair Howard Dean also controls a bloc of members. In theory, if the Cred Committee didn't reach a solution to Hillary's liking, her backers could introduce a minority report at the convention.

But this is unlikely to happen in reality. She says she'll take it this far if the state delegations want to, which seems unlikely. And without the states as cover, her backers on the committee seem unlikely to take this step, too, because such an effort would almost certainly fail, and her backers -- some of whom have their own careers to think about -- would take the blame for the ensuing chaos.

In short, it's highly unlikely that this will come down to the convention. But it's not impossible. More on this in some detail tomorrow.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/hillary_i_will_take_fight_over.php

So to recap:

May 31st: RBC will vote on a solution for seating Michigan and Florida delegations.

Late June: Hillary disagrees with the RBC's decision and goes to the Credentials committee (which is stacked with Obama supporters). The Credentials committee will not overturn what the RBC voted on.

Democrats, please don't fall for the threats and innuendo. This race is over, the remaining states and commonwealth will vote, and the FL and MI delegations will be seated. The Michigan state Democratic Party is NOT going to allow her to use Michigan as an issue. They've already proposed a solution. Hillary vetoed it, but the RBC can still vote on it and approve it. As far as Florida is concerned, you could seat them as is and Hillary will still not have enough delegates to win the nomination.

Don't be fooled and don't give the Clinton campaign the power to think that they can actually steal this thing.

[JuniperLea]

1. yep

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6067792

[Tatiana]

8. I will go rec that. We've got to be calm, cool, collected and steady like our nominee.

:toast:

[KittyWampus]

15. Heh, I just kicked your thread. You're right, even if not really too well spoken in that particular

instance. :)

[BayouBengal07]

2. Why does the RBC have to decide again?

They made their decision and the two candidates agreed. Why should they have to go back on that ruling?

[grantcart]

3. The problem is not that we have fallen for it.

The problem is that the MSM cable shows have accepted parts of it as gospel. Despite having won major victories in 20 all white states by large margins it is being repeated ad naseum that Obama has a problem with 'working white voters'.

[Tatiana]

13. Keith Olbermann suggested tonight that the media is feeding this thing

and wondered aloud whether they share some blame for this whole "working class white voter" nonsense. He even suggested that covering for hours on end primaries like WV and KY where Clinton won in blowouts was disingenuous because Clinton literally does not have a chance at winning the nomination.

So I think he agrees with what you say. I do too. But the problem is, we are not filtering the media hackery through the correct lens. However, the party leaders that I have heard speak in the media ARE... and that's a good thing. Yes, they are cowards, but a way will be found that gives them cover to come out and endorse in numbers that will effectively end this thing after the FL and MI situation is neutralized.

If you don't believe that, then in effect, you don't believe in Dean as a party leader. His record in '06 should inspire some confidence. He'll make sure what needs to be done is done.

Hillary will not be pushed, but she will be firmly nudged out of the picture.

[scarletwoman]

4. Good post. Thank you. k&r (nt)

[Barack_America]

5. I was just headed to the liquor cabinet...

But I think you may have diverted me.

Thanks.




Hmmm, maybe just ONE glass of wine?... ;)

[habitual]

11. cheeeeers to that.....

although i'll be drinking whiskey!

:toast:

[Cha]

6. Because they love hearing

"I told you so" the next time she moves the goal post? It's getting kinda pathetic.

[rateyes]

7. Thanks.

I feel better now. :hi:

[Tatiana]

17. It's hard, but we just need to wait till May 31st for the RBC's decision.

:hug:

We can do this. Remember, Obama told us this wouldn't be easy. It never is went you are going up against the most powerful interests in the country (and the world, to some extent).

:hi:

[PoliticalAmazon]

9. The issue isn't Hillary so much as it is the DNC bending and spreading for her...

I think there is a lot of justfied rage building towards the DNC for their coddling of her.

We saw the DNC cave to Bush Jr TWICE over election stealing, and, IMO, I can see the DNC caving to another Republican, Hillary Clinton.

She's WORSE than Bush Jr, and will shove her way where ever she is allowed to go. The DNC hasn't stood up to her and stopped the bullshit, and people like me see a repeat of previous election theft.

Obama is taking the high road, which is what he needs to do. But, understand, we have already been screwed out of our votes twice, and are loathe to allow it to happen again.

[Tatiana]

22. The DNC is walking a fine line. They are trying to hold steady until the hand-off to Obama.

Let's see what happens May 31st.

I do have faith in Dean. I also think Donna Brazille, milquetoast as she has been in the past, is re-energized as never before and will not let the Clintons steal this one or harm the party.

[PoliticalAmazon]

24. I HAD faith in Dean until he became DNC chair. There has been no...

difference in DNC policies between McAuliff and Dean's terms.

The fact that he promised voting reform and the DNC did SHIT speaks volumes for either what Dean is willing to do, or what he is capable of doing in that position.

If it is largely a figurehead, fundraising position (which I think it is) then why is Dean in that position? If it's just for the money and the prestige, then he's no better than a corporate CEO who does little for the company, rakes in the money, enjoys the prestige, while the investor masses suffer.

I don't hold much hope for the 31st. I truly, truly, TRULY hope I am wrong, but the patterns don't indicate that Hillary will quit of her own volition or the DNC will use their power to allow us to move on.

[Tatiana]

27. How can you say that there has been no difference?

We have a 50-state strategy. We are opening up offices across the nation and have won three special elections in a row in very red, conservative districts (IL, LA, and now MS).

We reversed the Democratic losses in 2006.

Let's look at things realistically, please.

[4themind]

10. I really don't think it matters what WE think

In terms of getting this race over with relatively quickly. So I don't think it's a matter of us giving her the power to think she can keep going. She can think that on her own, it really only matters what SHE thinks because she's the only one who can end this before the convention.now one may assume that an incoming torrent of dissent(from voters and superdelegates) from all sides might affect her reasoning, but to be honest I have serious doubts that it will either way. She's helping to foment this uproar, we're just reacting to it.

I think the concern that many of us have are not her realistic chances of winning, but the effect that a divided democratic electorate and a candidate that seems to be only fostering those divisions, will have for a chances of winning in november, especially when juxtaposing this scenario to a June solution/concession.

[Yael]

12. Tatiana, for me it is a lack of trust

She has sunk to depths during this primary that I once thought unimaginable.

Now, she is relegated to the Sith Lord image with me, and I do not underestimate her, nor do I put anything past her, no matter how Rovian it gets.

She has out-Roved Rove.

(Edit to note -- but his shit actually worked. She is just making a mockery...)

[Barack_America]

14. I guess the only thing I worry about is whether they could clog up the Rules Committee somehow?

Drag it out longer?

:shrug:

[Yael]

Count on it.

:(

[Tatiana]

21. Hey, sis... you should NOT underestimate her. None of us should.

She (really THEY... as in the Clintons) is desperate. I've listened to her and become increasingly disturbed. She has literally killed herself fighting for this nomination. There is an element of fear in her tone.

"He won't debate me!"

We've written it off as insanity, as Hillary losing it, as her just being crazy... but THAT would be underestimating what we are dealing with here. It's not ego. It's not pride. (Think Monicagate.) We are dealing with fear and desperation. She CAN'T lose. It's NOT an option, for whatever reason. I don't know who the Clintons owe or what price they've paid or what they've promised other powerful entities, but it's become clear that they will do WHATEVER is necessary to either

a) get the Democratic nomination; or
b) ensure a McCain victory

This is not about issues. This is not about Florida or Michigan. This is not about health care mandates or gas tax holidays or any other issues. It's about survival for her. Clinton is in survival mode. That's why she's getting no sleep, that's why they are appealing to racist voters who will never vote for a Democrat in a general election, that's why Clinton has talked herself hoarse, that's why McAuliffe doesn't care that he makes no sense and looks like a buffoon, that's why Penn didn't give a damn about advocating for a trade deal that the candidate he worked for purportedly opposed. It is good for us to be vigilant.

But I refuse to succumb to anymore fearmongering. I just won't. And I won't legitimize Clinton's actions by pretending that there's a chance for her to do anything except exit.

[Aloha Spirit]

16. Hey, good points all, but while Obama will be the nominee, I'm so frustrated at the missed opportun-

ities to bring the party together.
She and Bill are willfully promoting her supporters to feel wronged by the party and by Obama.
She still believes she can win, and I can barely distinguish my frustration from hate anymore.

BUT............ What if... What if he does win Puerto Rico? Now that would be worth it.

[grannylib]

19. Wouldn't that be great? Never say never.

I don't want to be a basher of Senator Clinton, but I really am saddened by the actions she's taken at times during this campaign, and what I perceive to be as total bankruptcy to her ever-changing arguments and moving of the goalposts. It's so transparent...I'm tired of being treated as though I'm too stupid to see through this shit; we've lived through damn near eight years of the Little Imbecile and Cheney the Dick and they think we're stupid, or at least sheeple, and I'm not takin' that shit from anyone anymore.

[apocalypsehow]

18. K & R.

[AtomicKitten]

20. This power struggle has already been decided. Barack will be the nominee.

Regardless of how ugly ClintonCo gets, rest assured Barack is not going to back down. He's lawyered up and is not going to allow Clinton's propaganda campaign in the press persuade him to bend over. Hillary doesn't have a legal or moral leg to stand on. Her people wrote the agreement regarding the disposition of FL and MI, and she signed onto it months ago documented in various media in various news outlets. It's done. She will not get the delegates seated the way she insists.

Barack has won fair and square and is now the party's standard-bearer. His coattails are wide. Three red seats turned blue in spite of the GOP's best gutter shot. It's over. The Clintons have nothing except bullshit and an attitude. Barack has won and will lead the Democratic Party to a stunning victory in November.

[Froward69]

23. I wonder if she is beating the dead horse

too stall towards the GE.


or that she is a traitor to the Democratic party, and its rules. :shrug:

[ProSense]

25. Is anyone listening to Hillary?

That's the biggest problem with her campaign tactic, which is to cast doubt on the legitimacy of Obama's nomination. All the talk about FL, MI and the popular vote is designed to position her as the legitimate candidate. That will bolster her claim that she, the legitimate candidate, was denied the nomination (problably accusing the Dem Party of sexism in the end). Can she steal the nomination? Not likely, but she will create an extremely bitter group of voters (she already has) who will hate what was done to her. If no one see a problem with that, then let her keep going.

I find it despicable, and others do too.

[Darth_Kitten]

26. Well, isn't it the Obamabots falling over themselves for somebody with....

little experience?

They are rather used to working themselves up over, well, anything it seems.