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Florida would give its 27 electoral votes to Hillary, while Obama loses by 10

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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:26 PM
Original message
Florida would give its 27 electoral votes to Hillary, while Obama loses by 10
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:27 PM by NJSecularist
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/florida/election_2008_florida_presidential_election


McCain: 50
Obama: 40


Hillary: 47
McCain: 41


Barack Obama is heading to Florida this week and has a lot of catching up to do in the race for the Sunshine State’s twenty-seven Electoral College votes.

The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Florida shows McCain attracting 50% of the vote while Obama earns 40%. Last month, McCain led by fifteen points. This is the third Florida poll in four months to show McCain with a double digit lead. Just 57% of Florida Democrats say they will vote for Obama while 27% plan to vote for McCain. The two candidates are essentially even among unaffiliated voters.

McCain leads among voters who earn more than $40,000 annually while Obama leads among lower income voters. In most states, McCain does well among middle income voters while Obama leads among those at both the lower-and-upper income brackets. In a trend seen in other states, Obama leads among those who rarely or never attend church while McCain leads among churchgoers.

Obama also leads by twenty-two percentage points among voters under thirty. However, voters 30 and older, McCain has a comfortable lead.


McCain is viewed favorably by 50% of the state’s voters, Obama by 48%. Compared to a month ago, that’s a twelve-point decline for McCain and a six-point gain for Obama.

Fifty-eight percent (58%) of Florida voters say it’s more important to bring troops home from Iraq than to win the War in that troubled country. Thirty-five percent (35%) say victory is the higher priority. Nationally, voters place somewhat more importance on winning the War.

In Florida, 43% believe the U.S. is likely to win in Iraq if McCain is elected. Just 24% say victory is likely if Obama is the next President. However, 59% say a President Obama is likely to get the troops home during his first term. Just 38% see such an outcome in McCain is elected.

Forty-eight percent (48%) of Florida voters believe Hillary Clinton would be a stronger general election candidate than Obama. Forty-two percent (42%) see Obama as the stronger candidate. Among Democrats, the results are very similar—48% see Clinton as the stronger candidate while 45% say that label applies to Obama.

Although Barack Obama is virtually assured of being the Democratic nominee, 28% of Florida Democrats want him to drop out of the race. Just 36% say Clinton should withdraw.

In the unlikely event that Clinton wins the Democratic Presidential Nomination, she leads John McCain by six percentage points in Florida, 47% to 41%.


Another 27 electoral votes down the tubes with Obama as our nominee? Aren't you guys excited!!! :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

If a candidate is more electable, shouldn't more states be in play for that supposed "more electable candidate"? With Obama, we are writing off Florida, West Virginia, Arkansas, Kentucky and perhaps even Ohio. Obama stands very little chance of winning a state that Hillary can't win.

In a terrible year for the GOP, the Obama gives them the best gift they could ask for: 27 free electoral votes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. blah blah blah...........(meaningless drivel at this point)
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. With the Clintons and hacks trashing Obama to Floridians, I'm not surprised. Aren't you really
proud of the Clintons? What a pair.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It is Obama that wants to disenfranchise Florida voters.
Not Hillary.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. And Hillary want to dienfranchise voters in MI - be honest dude.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
79. you need to check the definition of disenfranchise... cause i dont think it means what you think it
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:01 PM by Texas Hill Country
means...
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gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. They both agreed that Florida would not count.
But we all know now that Clinton is a liar, so when she promises to do something you clearly cannot trust her to keep that promise.
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wileedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. She opposed a re-vote a couple of weeks ago
She only wants certain votes to count a certain way
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Bitterly wrong much?
:shrug:
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. You failed Reading Comprehension, didn't you?
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
60. Why didn't Hillary oppose the "disenfranchisement" before she "disenfranchised" them?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
73. "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything" - HRC
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
105. No, it's the Florida Democratic Party that wants to disenfranchise Florida
voters.

THEY refused a re-vote. Not Obama.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
152. And you don't provide any evidence to back up that assertion because...?
Are you going to support the Democratic nominee in the general election?

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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
140. Yep that's my thought on this...
The Clintons have been going around Florida bashing Obama and lying through their teeth to blame them for "disenfranchising Florida voters" of course she would win currently.

Rp
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Changenow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. If the election were held today or
if she continues to campaign for McCain.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. more irrelevent bullshit.
The bottom line is hillary lost. She lost because she's the weaker candidate. Hillary is unelecatble.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Losing Florida is irrelevant?
Tell Al Gore that.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Was there a Florida primary this year?
I don't recall one this year....well, one that counts anyway.

You have those supreme idiots in the Florida legislature on the Democratic side to thank for this fuck-up. Instead of staying put and getting all the attention, they moved up in the calendar just to watch Montana and North Dakota decide the nominee.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
77. What does the (non) primary have to do with
electoral votes? :shrug:
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #77
93. I was responding to the OP who was conflating the 2000 presidential election and the 2008 Democratic
primaries with regard to Florida....as if there was any parallel.

You may want to direct your question to the secularist from the Garden State.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. the poll is irrelvent.
there are no electoral votes up for grabs at this point. Completely meaningless.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
86. So, this poll is irrelevant, too, right?
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6061408

Forgive me...I'm expecting you to agree that it is. I am "using" you, shamelessly, I admit, to make a point to those who will flock to that thread, but will mock this one.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #86
114. Polls in states where nobody campaigned are worthless.
Without campaigning, it's just a name-recognition beauty contest.

That said - NEITHER of them are going to win Florida. Diebold et al will see to that.
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. uh
"Although Barack Obama is virtually assured of being the Democratic nominee, 28% of Florida Democrats want him to drop out of the race. Just 36% say Clinton should withdraw."
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
117. LOL
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #117
131. Yeah, it's interesting
that it doesn't address that potion of the article that it holds up as "evidence."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Obama does need either Ohio or Florida.
Or else President Kerry would be running for re-election.

The math doesn't work without Ohio or Florida.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. guess we'll find out, won't we.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:38 PM
Original message
Whatever troll. Obama doesn't need those Diebold States.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:38 PM by prodn2000
Oh, wait...

Maybe he does.

Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, and Alaska all together have less than the electoral votes of Florida.

But Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Alaska, and Idaho = Ohio.

So there is hope after all.


:rofl:
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. Don't forget about North Carolina and Virginia!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. South Carolina and Mississippi were HUGE for Obama.
Maybe those will translate into GE victories!
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
94. Don't forget about Kentucky!
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Math lessons from Hillary
Are like dressage lessons taught by a tuna.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Did you happen to read any of the FEC report threads late last night/early this morning?
:rofl:

And it isn't math, its "Math."
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
100. Kerry lost Iowa and New Mexico
So add those to his total.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
158. But...but...but ... he'll turn Virginia BLUE!!!!
At least that's what I keep hearing. We don't need W.Va. (Bill won it), we don't need Ohio, or Michigan, or Wisconsin, or any of the rust belt states. We don't need the South. We sure as hell don't need Florida.

But we'll get Virginia.

Let's see how that works out.

:sarcasm:

Bake
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
99. was that sarcasm?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. He has some work to do in FL. That's why he's there. How hilly
matches up against McCain is now irrelevant- in FL or anyplace else.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. 10% is virtually impossible to make up at this point.
Meanwhile, Hillary would win Ohio and Florida running away and practically guarentee we would take the White House.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. that's completely absurd,
It's over 5 months until November. As virtually everyone knows, a week is a life time in politics. You say an awful lot of very silly things, and this ranks right up there with your ridiculous assertion that hilly had a chance of catching Obama in Oregon.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Why are you still arguing about hillary ... it is over even if you and
hillary won't admit it...
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You're wrong Cali! Hillary matches up with McCain well!
Excelent actually she matches up great with McCain right across the aisle in the Senate.
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
75. Al Gore matches up to him good as well!
But he isn't running against him either....:)
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why have elections at all, just sit in front of supers and let them determine who is more electable
Your plan sounds great..
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. if you think a poll predicts the future i have some cheap real estate for ya...
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. The nominating process is essentially over: he won, she lost. Get over it. n/t.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. It's not over.
And thank goodness Hillary is still in the race to save us from a sure-fire 300+ electoral vote blowout for McCain.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. It is over. Face it. Over. Over. Over.
Your denial doesn't make it any less true.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
151. Um...Obama has the delegates, the votes and the supers...That is known as GAME OVER.
...stick a fork in the pantsuit....it's over...
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. Florida is important but it's NOT THE WHOLE ELECTION ...
And how reliable are these infamous *polls* after all? We
don't select our nominee based on *polls* -- we do it based
upon DELEGATES (not *poopular vote* or any other faux metric
the Clintonistas care to come up with).
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. If Gore or Kerry would Florida, they would have won the election.
It is a vitally important state. To say otherwise just because Obama is uncompetitive in the state is absurd.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
67. If Gore had won TENNESSEE he wouldn't have needed Florida!
If Kerry had been a better campaigner, Florida wouldn't have mattered
as much, either. I think we overemphasize Florida (and discount other
potential battleground states) at our peril. This is 2008, not 2004
or 2000 ... Don't fight the last war; fight THIS ONE.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
153. Or New Hampshire
considering how the electoral votes were in 2000. That has changed now of course since the census redistribution of congressional seats.

Just a fraction of Nader's votes in either state would have prevented the Bush nightmare.
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lsusteel Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. See link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6063483

While Hillary may be performing better in the typical battlegrounds and has a better chance to win along the conventional path (Flipping OH and/or Florida from Kerry's map), Obama puts more states in play meaning our election hopes don't hinge on one or two states (which is easier for the Republicans to combat).


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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:44 PM
Original message
Obama is putting states with 5 electoral votes in play like New Mexico.
Hillary puts states with 27 electoral votes (Florida) and 20 electoral votes (Ohio) into play.
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lsusteel Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
44. What's your point?
IA, NM, CO = Obama wins.

It may not be the traditional method of winning for the Dems, but does that matter?

Hillary plays the old game best, but when our election hopes hinge on one or two states, where do you think 90% of the Republican money and time goes?

Obama dilutes them. Spreads them out. It's no longer CQC, where the Republicans constantly whoop the Dems' asses.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. My point is that Obama doesn't win with just IA, New Mexico and Colorado.
He needs a state with a large amount of electoral votes. Like Ohio or Florida.
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lsusteel Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Uh, yes he does
Keeping Kerry's map intact and simply adding IA, NM, and CO, Obama wins. Even if you subtract NH, which Obama will probably lose, Obama wins.

Check for yourself:

http://www.ez-calculators.com/electoral_calculator.htm
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. You are right. My bad.
However, it is very unlikely that Obama turns 3 states blue that all went to Bush in 2004. If that is the electability argument Obama is using, then we are in trouble.
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lsusteel Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #69
89. Here are some scenarios excluding Florida
Before I do that, though, keep in mind Obama has a solid lead in both IA and CO. In NM, the last two polls have been +9 and tied. In NV, which hasn't been polled since April, Obama trails by 0.3% in the average of polls. And NM only went to Bush by 1%, CO by 5%, and NV by 2%.

Here a few plausible scenarios that don't involve winning Florida and assuming he keeps his solid lead in Iowa (all based on Kerry's map minus New Hampshire):

1. Win Ohio

2. Win CO, and NM or NV

3. Win MO (Obama only trails by 2 in the latest poll), and one of CO, NM, NV

I think #2 is the most likely and most plausible.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #69
156. Two of which went Gore in 2000
Not as unthinkable as it looks.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
125. Like California?
Oh, that's right - california voted for Hillary which means he can't win california.

:crazy:
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
80. Explain your reasoning....
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
118. Explain my reasoning of what? n/t
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
34. Does anyone else notice
that *more* FL Democrats want Clinton to drop out? We have to support the will of the voters! :eyes:
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is all you have anymore.
Your delusions and conjecture have found previously to not only be highly inaccurate, but they are edging on boring.

As soon as you're right about something, I'll consider changing my mind about this.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. He'll win Florida; he's only just started campaigning there. Oh, and
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:44 PM by Occam Bandage
Clinton's already lost the nomination.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. No, he won't win Florida.
Sorry, it's not happening. Florida voters are not convinced that he's anything more than an empty suit.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Sure he will. He's only ten down, and that's including:
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:49 PM by Occam Bandage
1. Tantrum-throwing HRC supporters who will come around shortly, just as 2nd-place supporters always do.

2. The fact that he hasn't campaigned there yet.

3. John McCain's free ride.

If just 6% of the electorate is comprised of a combination of HRC supporters throwing short-term fits, people who will be convinced by him actually being allowed to campaign there, and people who will be convinced McCain is actually a jackass, then Obama wins handily.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Those are an awful lot of assumptions.
Have fun losing Florida by more than Kerry did. As long as we can rid ourselves of white guilt, who cares about winning the election!
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. "Those are an awful lost of assumptions."
Which is the PERFECT way to describe 100% of your posts here. Assumptions. And ones that are more often than not proven to be incorrect. Give it up.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Assuming in politics that there are no factors at play but the poll numbers
is one of the biggest--and stupidest--assumptions you can make.
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Nice. n/t
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
161. No, Florida's out of play for Barack. There's no way he could win it.
Ten down now in a state like that, he'll never make up enough to win. He needs to go to where the low-hanging fruit is. It's not anywhere in the South right now.

Independents in Florida are not moving towards him like they are in New Mexico or Colorado.

He'll end up losing it by more than Kerry did.
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pdx_prog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
83. Wow....I wasn't aware that you spoke for the state of Florida.....
that changes everything by God...:)
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
129. That's what EVERY state said
before he campaigned there.

That's why Hillary beat him by 20 points in NC, and by 25 in NH. And by 15pts in IA - but of course, Edwards won that state.

Without campaigning, the polls are worthless.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
147. I guess there is just no arguing with you,
being that you know each voter personally and know exactly how they would vote.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
154. That says everything about your comittment to the Democratic party's nominee
and your uncanny ability to speak for an entire state that you don't even live in.

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stahbrett Donating Member (855 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
37. Bill Clinton was in 3rd place in the polls in June of 1992
Just sayin'... third place, behind 1st place Ross Perot, and 2nd place incumbent George H. W. Bush.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. Shhhh! The polls that are coming out right this second are gospel. GOSPEL!
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. Six months.
Six months ago polls had Hillary winning the primary in a landslide.
And six months from now this poll will be as useless as those.

Pathetic.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Just as useless as those polls in May 2004 that said Bush would win Florida and Ohio right?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 02:47 PM by NJSecularist
:rofl: :rofl:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Yes. Exactly as useless. Kerry could have won both or either if he had run a competent campaign.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Hey, stay on track here. Are you trying to deny that
all polls had Hillary blowing OBama out of the water six months ago?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. It is irrelevant.
That was a primary campaign. There were around 15 candidates on both sides.

Now there are two candidates, one on each side, who focus on ripping each others throats out for the last 5 months of the campaign. Numbers stay relatively static.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Yes, there are now two candidates, and Hillary's popularity has never increased
as the candidate pool decreased. Meanwhile, Obama's popularity has continued to trend upward. What does that tell you?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. It tells me that Hillary's ceiling is just below Obama's floor.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. Bingo! You're in touch with reality.
Not that I ever had any doubts, mind you.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
76. It tells you nothing.
Hillary wins important states. Obama wins favorability contests. Hillary wins the White House. Obama goes back to the Senate.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. No, it tells me that she's capped her support. She hasn't been able to budge her numbers since Q4
2007, while Obama's still gaining ground. She's at her ceiling; he's still trending north. She's at her ceiling; his absolute floor is Kerry's performance.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #82
87. Her absolute ceiling is winning Florida and Ohio.
Something Kerry couldn't do.

Her ceiling is higher than Obama's.

You can slice and dice favorability ratings all you want, but elections are won in accumulating electoral votes, not by favorability ratings.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. psssst: We're not in the General Election!
Come back to the primary, where Hillary's numbers have been tumbling along with her money.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #87
98. "Her ceiling is higher than Obama's." Completely ridiculous. Obama has a better shot at
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:15 PM by Occam Bandage
MO, MI, TX, ND, VA, NC, NE, MT, WI, IA, and CO. He'll win at least four of those; Hillary might get WI but no more. He's going to win at least three of MI, OH, PA, and FL, too. Clinton's strategy is Kerry Plus Maybe One, And If Anything Goes Wrong We're Fucked. Obama's is far more robust.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #98
104. Hillary has a better shot in MO, FL, OH, WV and KY.
For a grand total of 71 electoral votes.

Obama has a better chance shot in CO, MI, WI, IA and Colorado. For a grand total of 43 electoral votes.

Can we stop saying that any Republican has a chance of winning NC, VA, ND, TX, NE or MT? You have no fucking idea what you are talking about if you think any of those states will go blue. Once again, relatively low-turnout caucuses mean nothing.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. DIdi it ever occur to you that Obama would have a BETTER shot
if everyone got behind him? It's hold out loonies like you who are going to be the reason Obama loses votes.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. So you are saying Hillary would win by more than 6% in Florida if the party rallied around her?
Another great reason to nominate her.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. If Hillary wants to be President of FL, sure.
But she's currently losing the race, so I'm suggesting we rally behind the winner. You know, the one who has the majority of delegates.

Hint: It's not Hillary.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. "Can we stop saying that any Democrat has a chance of winning NC, VA, ND, TX, NE or MT?"
No. Because Obama does. Keep in mind that Team Clinton thought Dean had "no fucking idea what he was talking about" when he sent organizational teams to Mississippi. That worked out all right, now didn't it?

Oh, and Clinton doesn't have a prayer in KY.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #109
113. Congressional races are different than national races.
How long have you been following politics for? Is this your first election?

Obama has no chance to win North Carolina, Virginia, North Dakota, Texas, Nebraska or Montana. As I have said many times, low turnout caucuses are indicative of nothing.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #113
119. Of course they are. And Obama has a strong chance at NC, VA, and ND,
an outside chance at MT and NE, and a slim but possible (similar to HRC's WV chance) at TX.

"I refuse to believe anything but that late-primary opinion polling will hold steady for six months" is not a convincing counterargument.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. No, he doesn't have a chance in any of those states.
You are going to need to prove it.

I'll be waiting.

You've yet to put forth any compelling argument for the reason why any of those states will be in play given their electoral history.

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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. Put forth your proof.
Your arguments are no more compelling. The only thing you have on your side in this is your blind zeal. The rest of us have is Obama as our nominee and will happily work to help him win against McCain.

Exactly what do YOU plan on doing?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. Go look at their electoral history for starters.
You can start there.

I'm not doing your own research for you.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #128
135. And I'm not doing yours. "Oh, they haven't voted Dem in a while" isn't convincing when
Obama is polling six points down to three points up during a contested primary in a Democratic year, with an infrastructure that plans on badly outspending McCain and competing in states that Democrats have frankly ignored until recently, with a pack of foot-stomping HRC tantrumers slowly making their way back to the party, with a sound message advantage over McCain, and with a better GOTV operation than the Republicans have.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #135
138. You can simply look at their electoral history and see that none of them are going to be won
by Obama.

I could say "Obama is going to win Oklahoma and Arizona because I said so" and it would be just as compelling of an argument as yours.

So when are you going to show proof?

I'll be waiting. Quit dodging my question.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #138
141. And again, "electoral history" is meaningless when Dems haven't
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:41 PM by Occam Bandage
contested those states and ran candidates favorable to those states. Oh, and I did just make the argument, albeit in a highly abbreviated form. I'm certainly not going to go through the spreadsheets and show you each poll, each paper on the effectiveness of GOTV dollars to advertisement dollars, and each projected fundraising/spending graph--and then defend each figure listed, and each conclusion drawn.

I've played the DU "escalating burden of proof" game enough times to know it's a rhetorical trap.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #141
144. So you have no proof?
It's only your wishful thinking?

As I thought.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. Note: Opposite of what I said. But if you'd rather stick your head in the sand, or rather play
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:48 PM by Occam Bandage
rhetorical games, then by all means go for it.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #113
123. And why do you believe he has no chance there?
Yet believe she actually has a chance in WV, KY, and states that have generally been out of the national playbook for Democrats for years?

And your TP of "low-turnout caucuses" is getting pretty fucking old. Caucuses have had record turn-out all over the country with this election.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #104
142. What makes you think you know anything about any state west of
Jersey?

Hillary CANNOT take MO. I lived there for two decades, and I guarantee, she'll never take MO. Neither of them are going to take KY - that's hardcore redstate. I don't think either is going to take FL, though in an HONEST election Obama would have a shot - but since there hasn't been an honest election there in the last decade I don't see that happening. And he certainly DOES have a shot at NC - but Hillary never would. The military loathe her.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
155. Actually, there were many questions about Ohio
and the 2004 election.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. How can you be "electable" if you're not "favorable?" LOL
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Yet Hillary still leads in Florida and Ohio.
What does that say about how bad Obama's electability is?
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. It tells me that you're using an inappropriate measuring stick.
Because GE polls right now are irrelevant when the nominee has not been chosen.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Quit moving the goalposts.
Hillary leads in Florida by a big margin without there being a nominee. Obama is just unelectable.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Because he's trailing in Florida while still running against a fellow Democrat
six months before the election??

Alright. You win. OBama should just drop out.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Hillary is winning by 5 points despite running against a fellow Democrat.
Same thing in Ohio.

What's your point?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. She's losing. Her supporters are therefore more defensive, and more likely to claim
"hell no, I'm never voting for Obama." Obama supporters are more confident, and thus more generous with Sen. Clinton. Were their fortunes reversed, the polling would look different.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. You have no proof for that assertion.
Some day the Obamites are going to come to the conclusion that the votes that Hillary has received are not guarenteed Obama votes in the Fall.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. And you have no proof of YOUR assertions!
And you've been wrong on numerous occasions, which proves to me that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about! What the hell is the matter with you? Really?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Oh, not all of them. Just the overwhelming majority of them. You might feel like
holding your breath forever right now, but the number of holdouts will continue to dwindle. Have you seen the in-party polling recently? She's losing support rapidly--by a point or two per day. Claiming that half of the party is going to throw a six-month tantrum is about as believable as when a toddler claims the same thing.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. You have no proof that the overwhelming majority will vote for Obama.
Just because you think it will happen doesn't make it true. Obama's slash and burn campaign has left alot of people unwilling to vote for him. Some day within the next few months the Obamites will begin to realize that.

You referring to these people as engaging in a "temper tantrum" is another reason why these voters won't vote for Obama.

Have fun losing Florida by 10 points and Ohio by 5 points in the Fall.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. I demand you hand over your Magic 8-Ball.
It is clouding your mind and making you into a false prophet.

And you keep ignoring this, but how did your Oregon prediction go again? Just curious.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #95
103. "You referring to these people as engaging in a 'temper tantrum...'"
...is completely correct. They are. This is common. Hurt feelings mend, and disappointment doesn't last forever.

Look at the Gallup tracking polls. She's losing support every day. He's gaining support every day. There might be a few holdouts, sure--but six months is a long, long time. Even the most committed three-year-old can't hold his breath forever.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. So you tell me that state polls such as Florida are meaningless 5 months away.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:17 PM by NJSecularist
But then you use a Gallup poll as the bible?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're becoming a parody of yourself. Stop like you are ahead, before you embarass yourself more than you already have.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. You're the one using GE polls during a primary, dolt.
It's not the same as a daily tracking poll.

So... how did Oregon turn out, NJ? Just wondering.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #107
115. Nope. I tell you that state polls are meaningless five months away, and then say that
Gallup polls are useful to show you that the holdout you're proposing is evaporating at this very moment.

Five months away =/= this very moment. It's a pretty simple distinction.

(Oh, and you just violated Occam's Corollary to Godwin's Law: He who spams Mr. Rofl first has admitted lack of counterargument.)
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. I exposed your double standard.
Sorry you don't want to hear it. You can twist and turn around your words as much as you'd like, but it doesn't matter.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. There's no double standard. Polls of something five months out are worthless. Polls of something
happening today are not. You are proposing that FL polls are going to remain constant through November. That's dumb.

You also propose that HRC holdouts are going to remain constant to November. A look at a daily tracking poll will show that is not happening.

If you can't see a difference, it's because your eyes are closed, your fingers are in your ears, and you're rolling on the ground crying.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Polls of something happening today?
You realize the election is 5 months away?

Your double standard is laughable, and the fact that you can't see that is stunning.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #124
130. Yes. HRC holdout-ism is unraveling today. Do you think that HRC ex-supporters
are going to jump back off Obama's bandwagon? A sort of rallying away from the candidate?

You aren't even thinking any more.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. A one day tracking poll isn't indicative of anything.
Sorry.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #133
137. A two-week trend over every day of it is. The mass holdout you're relying on is breaking day by day.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #137
139. Show me the two week trend.
From multiple sources.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. Sure.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:47 PM by Occam Bandage





Hillary is slowly bleeding support, on all fronts. The holdouts are giving up at this moment. There won't be the mass six-month tantrum your arguments demand.
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justinaforjustice Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #95
164. Slashing and Burning the Facts.
What is your factual basis for claiming that Obama has run a "slash and burn campaign"? You must be confusing him with a candidate named Clinton, who seems to be deliberately burning down the Democratic Party's "Big Tent", using race-baiting and reverse sex-baiting to do it.

Obama is the sane, reasonable, rule-abiding candidate, in case you hadn't noticed.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. Absolutely. If the delegate totals were reversed, Obama supporters would be throwing fits,
and Hillary would be looking like a lemon in comparison to him.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Dumbest. Argument. Ever.
Bookmarking. See ya in Nov.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
40. Oh yeah... and how did that Oregon squeaker work out for ya, NJ?
:rofl:
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. YAWN. The man has never even campaigned there. This Poll is irrelevant
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Buck Rabbit Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
116. True, and Hillary has not been vetted anywhere
on the main issue that the GOP and Media and 527's will be talk about in the General if she were the nominee.

Her General Election "electability" is a pipe dream until she faces what her Democratic rivals and the press spared her with in the primary.

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haymakeragain Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
47. Hillary's done, Obama will be the nominee, start helping or
get the fuck out of the way. Get it? She got beat, deal.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
102. that's all that matters to O-ists, isn't? who cares if dems lose the GE? at least you beat the bitch
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. You won't even help us GET to the GE!
Nor will you rally behind the winner of the fricken primary, so you have no business complaining about "losing the GE" when you won't even lift your petulant little finger to help us win.

We'll be over here helping our nominee once you decide to get off your whiney, sore-losing ass.

And stop gender-baiting.
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haymakeragain Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #102
136. You said "bitch" not me, I said he won and she should quit helping McSame
I understand that your latest scheme is to repeatedly, ala Roviarians, make some bullshit claim about sexism in order to push up her vote totals to give her some kind of whine to cling to at the convention. Those votes combined with Rush's idiots who are helping her out as well, will not add up to enough. She should drop out and let him have his shot. That's what the Democratic Party process has produced.

Get the fuck out of the way.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #102
148. Why are you calling your candidate a bitch? Again?
Do you hate women?
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #102
149. Now who's the sexist?
Are you going to support the Democratic nominee?

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my3boyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
49. Meet ignore! I'm so sick of reading your stupid posts that you post only to start shit! nt
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Mooney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
63. While you're at it, what are the Lotto numbers for tonight?
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
65. Don't preach to us. Go to the Super Delegates with that theory.
Do you not expect the SD's to give voters the credit to have thought about who might make the stronger general election candidate and to vote accordingly? The elected delegates have been chosen. Let's see if the SD's vote against them.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
81. Where are all the HILLARY stickers?
Are they ashamed to show their support. I live in a very "red" part of Florida and all I see are Obama stickers, specifically the Obama Mama ones. For what it is worth, the women in these cars have all been white women.

There are at least three cars every day (Mass) in the Catholic Church parking lot across from where I work. They are parked right next to loads of Choose Life plates. Apparemtly, they have not gotten the "word". Or maybe, they are not one issue voters?

Anyway, I am in an area where registered Republicans outnumber Democrats nearly 2 to one, where are all the other candidate (Hillary or McCain) supporters?

As far as Michigan, how can Hillary possibly claim she won there? Obama was not even on the ballot.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
92. The State of Florida rendered its Democratic primary election
and the votes cast therein illegitimate when it broke the rules. Exactly how many presidential elections does one state get to decide?
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OneAmerica Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
97. I must admit, NJSecularist makes some good, important points.
But they are still moot. We need to rally behind the nominee and do everything we can to ensure he wins whatever he needs to win in November. To deny that it's going to be Obama is, at this point, beyond absurd and bordering on offensive. It's time to unite and unfortunately, I just can't see that happening at this point. I do believe we've managed to throw away another election and I can't help but resent Clinton and her fairweather Dems for being the catalyst behind it all.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
101. This is a recording (beep)
:rofl:
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Yanez Houston Jordan Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
126. OMG! Check out the polling which says Edwards would do better than Obama in Ohio. VOTE EDWARDS!!!
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:29 PM by Yanez Houston Jordan
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IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! 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IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!! IT'S NOT TOO LATE, REALLY! VOTE EDWARDS!!!
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
132. We need a special new forum apart from GD-P for these sort of posts.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
134. If your candidate is more electable, wouldn't she have won the nomination?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 03:35 PM by MilesColtrane
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haymakeragain Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #134
146. Stop saying that!
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
150. Glad to see your optimism for our nominee!
Good to know you're working for the Democrats rather than whining about the past!

(sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm dripping dripping dripping)

Obama bots like me are more concerned about hope for the future than lamenting over imagined pasts.

David
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dcindian Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
157. Step one win your partie's primary
I guess it makes you pretty sad you have to deal with the little thing called democracy. You know that really bad vote thing where your candidate was booted out on her fat ass.

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Robbins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #157
159. BS
The radical wing of hillary supporters need to face reality.Obama Is the nominee.Polls from may
do not determine who wins In November.President Kerry,President Perot,and President Dukakis can tell
you that.Quinnpac had a recent florida poll with Mccain only 1 point ahead of Obama.You Hillary supporters love throwing In our faces polls that favor your talking points.Hillary Is the one not being attacked by Mccain,Bush,and the right wing.If you think she will easily win you are deluding yourselves.Hillary has angered Blacks and Young voters.If the young voters say home and some Blacks stay home no democrat can win.Obama can get some Republicans to crossover.Hillary unites the Republican party around Mccain.Those calling Obama another Mcgovern are not In touch with reality.
The sooner she drops out and Obama can concrete on uniting the party and running against Mccain the better.
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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
160. Is Clinton going to campaign for the Dem nominee, then? n/t
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
162. McCain will easily beat Obama in Florida. It's basically over there for BHO.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
163. Who needs FL when you have
Vermont locked up?

:rofl:
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