Obama is the nominee...

[busymom]

but the attacks on Clinton have to stop. I'm sick of reading about her future position being a vicious watchdog on the whitehouse lawn, etc. She is a democrat...she is one of us.

And fyi. She has to let her campaign wear down. Hillary Clinton knows she has lost the nomination. Things have to wind down though because there is such a huge divide between the Obama and Clinton camps. This has been a close race and many of her supporters now say that they won't support Obama (and many Obama supporters also won't support her) She has to give here supporters the feeling that she was not kicked out of the race early. At the end of the day, she will let the delegates and popular vote speak to her supporters...she will say that she gave it her all and lost and then she will rally behind Obama...It is also the reason that the superdelegates haven't rushed over to Obama to end this thing. It is part of trying to unite the party back together. She will lose fair and square and then help her supporters to move forward and towards Obama.

That's the truth...

I think that threads which call out Senator Clinton in such demeaning ways must be closed by the mods.

[onehandle]

1. I agree. nt

[AllentownJake]

2. I'm done

It's over. Sorry if I was bad.

[TheDonkey]

3. tell her to throw her arms down

meaning guns and knives. AS long as she and her supporters are trying to tear down Obama I will not sit back silently.

[busymom]

5. that is not happening anymore.

And this primary season hasn't been any worse than any other.

[Occam Bandage]

14. Which is why we're still hearing about how Obama can't win, about how rural whites hate him, about

how only Clinton can win the important swing states? She's still campaigning. I appreciate that her attacks have toned down, and the anti-Clinton mood here has toned down, too. But you're not realistically going to see a truce until Clinton stops firing entirely.

[enid602]

21. decision

But I think she's campaigning for VP at this point. She'll make her plea, he'll make the decision. He should consider her. I think it would make a ticket we can all eagerly support.

[Pastiche423]

32. What's this "we" shit?

I dearly hope Obama does NOT choose her as his VP. He'll lose too many votes. Plus he has a wide range of people better suited to accept the job.

One president and two (Clintons) vice presidents will not work.

[enid602]

34. 16 mil

16 million who voted for Clinton.

[Pastiche423]

37. So you are excluding all of the Dems

that did not vote for Clinton.

That ain't "we".

[enid602]

69. merge/purge

It's his call; merge or purge. Purge might give him the most personal satisfaction at the moment, but ultimately he needs to broaden the base. His current base is too small, and the publication of more inspirational books probably won't help any more than they already have. Personally, I don't much care, but it would be nice to have dems in government in this, of all years.

[Zhade]

43. Um, fuck no it isn't. I don't support proven unrepentant liars.

That aside, it's STUPID to consider her - all McLame has to do is play two videos:

Tuzla. Ooops, she's proven a liar.

Endorsing McLame over Obama. Ooops, she's an opportunist for accepting the VP slot.

Never going to happen, thankfully. She's not getting back in the White House. Get used to that.

[JuniperLea]

40. That only proves that some here cannot find the high road with both hands

Which is a pity.

Be the change you'd like to see. Take the high road... it's the adult thing to do.

[philk17088]

60. High road?

Is losing the GE to assuage Clinton's ego the responsible, adult thing to do?
She should cease and dissist at once and try to make up for her horrendous attacks on Obama,not for a political reward, just because THAT is the right thing to do.

[JuniperLea]

70. Keeping up the bullshit here is NOT losing the GE...

Jesus you can stretch shit.

[JuniperLea]

39. Try the high road... you know...

Doing the right thing first.

It feels good. Really.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Sure

Just as soon as she quits.

[busymom]

7. duh. You missed the point, didn't you.

If she quits, there will be some dems who will scream foul play and will feel disenfranchised. This way, she loses fair and square and the party can reunite itself around Obama.

[cali]

6. yep. we don't need it. I've long maintained that Hillary will concede

with grace and strongly endorse Obama- at a time and place of her choosing. She's not some cartoon figure of evil. By the same token, it's time for some of the more zealous Clinton supporters to stop slamming Obama in horrible ways.

[busymom]

9. It's too bad that the obama folks won't let her do it...

they want to see her go down in a heap of burning flames...how sad.

[Growler]

12. I don't...

I'm a strong supporter of Obama, and have a lot of respect for Hillary. I would love to see her concede with grace and dignity, and I'm happy to give her the space in which to do that.

[cali]

20. ack. they can't prevent her from leaving on her own terms and

leaving with grace. I think that's what she'll do whatever anyone says.

[spanone]

8. kick and recommended = time to put this gdp to bed imo

[LakeSamish706]

10. I've said some nasty things... and "I'm coming over"... I really mean this...

to all Clinton supporters... I understand your disappointment and hope that we can get beyond that... Lets get our country back by starting with the White House. There is going to be so much work to do to turn this country around, it is very hard to fathom.... I'm sorry for you that your candidate did not succeed, but I hope we can work together (here on DU) to get beyond that and take this country back...

[Occam Bandage]

11. Absolutely--the minute she stops being an active challenger to the Democratic nominee.

Part of being in a campaign is taking the lumps that come with politics. Politics is, after all, a contact sport, and you don't get to tell the opposing team not to tackle you just because you can't win. If you want to stop being hit, you have to leave the field.

Now, I recognize that what is and what ought be are different things. Do we need intra-campaign attack ads? No. Those need to stop, and I'm glad they have. Do we need bickering on message boards? No, probably not, but it's unrealistic to think that kind of behavior is going to stop until she drops.

[elocs]

13. That door swings both ways...

attacks on Obama need to stop as well as the pissy and snarky comments here about him and his supporters since he is the apparent nominee and threads which call out Senator Obama in such demeaning ways must be closed by the mods (although far be it from me to demand what the mods must or must not do).

[iamthebandfanman]

15. I totally agree

and if she were to just suspend and back him up, i really think any wounds and any viciousness left over will be dealt with and squashed.

[Boz]

16. SHe reaps what she sows, if its unity she recieves unity, if its adversary it is also hers to accept

her returns.

[VotesForWomen]

68. back at you, don't you think? and enjoy 4 years of President McCain.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Obama is not the nominee. It is nice of you to speak out against attacks

on Senator Clinton but if you're trying to get us to back Obama, it won't work.

If Howard Dean destroys the party by pushing through Obama's nomination, I, and many others, will write in Hillary Rodham Clinton for president, or vote Green or even GOP.

HRC has won over 16 million votes, not counting those she won in West Virginia. Obama would lose even if we voted for him, but in some polls, nearly 50% of those who voted for HRC would not vote for Obama. Despite that little man at the DNC's big talk, we won't all "fall back in line."

Obama is not ready for prime-time and his recent insults and disrespectful gestures aimed at HRC showed how immature he is. This man shouldn't be anywhere near the nuclear football.

[Occam Bandage]

18. OP is a Clinton supporter. And by the way, BusyMom, this is exactly why

the attacks on Clinton have not stopped.

[JuniperLea]

42. That's a very childish reason

They should just stop. It's what adults do.

[Occam Bandage]

64. So the Clinton line is, "Act like adults, because we refuse to?"

[busymom]

25. Look, I agree with you...and...

If you have read any of my posts in the past you will realize that I was and am a huge supporter of Hillary Clinton. I may just write in Clinton too, so keep your pants on.

All I'm saying is that Barack Obama has won the popular vote and the delegates...and I do believe he will be the nominee. I share your feeling that he's not ready for prime-time...and I didn't vote for him in the primaries...but enough people voted for him to make him the nominee. There's no way around that. We lost...I feel sad about it, but it's true.

[Occam Bandage]

30. Okay, let's take a look at what happened here.

You asked everyone to stop attacking Hillary Clinton for the good of the party. Dembones comes in, and fires off a pack of angry, bitter attacks aimed at Obama (who is the presumptive nominee of the party.) You say that you agree with the attacks, and are considering voting against the Democratic nominee.

Here's an idea: you want people to stop acting petty? Start living the dream.

[Zhade]

45. You're delusional. She's all but mathematically eliminated.

Can't WAIT until you have to leave DU - we don't need the type of "intelligence" that claims a person without a cerebral cortex can recover from a coma.

(Yeah, I haven't forgotten that particular bit of idiocy on your part.)

[cynatnite]

19. Totally agree!

I'm a Hillary supporter and I think Obama has the nomination. It changes nothing by letting it play out. She'll drop out when the timing is right and will get behind Obama. I have no doubt about that.

[last1standing]

22. But you just started another thread attacking Edwards.

Why is it OK for you to attack a popular Dem who has many supporters but not OK for others to do the same with Hillary?

Personally, I'd love to see the attacks on ALL the Dems stop but I have to say that as long as Hillary continues to use coded racism and impeach Obama's electibility, there's not much chance of that happening here.

[busymom]

23. I didn't attack Edwards.

I said that I don't respect him coming out at this late time and I wished he had come out sooner. That is not an attack. He had stated in the past that he didn't want to come out with an endorsement but chose to do it at a politically opportune time. BTW, I have always really liked John Edwards. I'm just capable of being honest about my feelings about a candidate. I have said plenty of critical things about Senator Clinton as well. I don't just huddle around my candidate and pretend that they are infallible.

[Occam Bandage]

24. It's kind of strange to call this a "politically opportune time." The race is over, and in fact

many Clinton supporters are complaining that Edwards is just rubbing it in--you yourself are saying that the race is over, and that Clinton is now harmless. Edwards' timing is good for Obama against McCain, but hardly bad for Clinton.

[busymom]

26. He should have done what he said he would...

and wait. OR..he should have endorsed him before North Carolina.

It's clear that Obama will be the nominee...so since that is clear, he should have just let it ride. There was nothing to gain for Obama politically by the endorsement...only Edwards stands to gain.

[Occam Bandage]

28. So you're saying that he should have done it at a *more* politically-opportune time?

It sounds more like you're just angry, rather than having any particular quibble with timing.

And yeah, there is something for Obama to gain. This helps slam the door on the "white working class" argument Hillary's been pushing--which is an demographic distortion that can indeed be damaging against McCain.

[busymom]

49. no...at a more politically inopportune time for HIM

...when his endorsement mattered.

[Occam Bandage]

62. His endorsement still matters. It's consumed the evening news, and it's killed a bad story just as

it was starting to look like it might have legs. That's a great time.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. His endorsement mattered because it just took the wind out of the last Clinton sails

Meanwhile, imbecile DemBones will be voting for Nader or McCain. The tombstone will be shared with relish. Or parmesan.

[last1standing]

27. Edwards came out to unify the party because this has gone on too long.

You decided to act like a concern troll talking about how sad you were that you couldn't respect him now. Well, a lot of us feel even more saddened by Hillary's campaign and us Edwards supporters don't like it when our candidate is called opportunistic. He was the only major candidate who actually talked issues and had a real plan to combat poverty.

If he decides it's time to get behind Obama then I respect his decision. Your lack of respect notwithstanding.

[slinkerwink]

29. I agree. Senator Clinton was very conciliatory towards Obama in her interviews tonight, and I think

we should let her be. Let her wind down the campaign on her terms.

[Norwood]

31. When her and her supporters attacks stop, so will the attacks on her.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Douglas Carpenter]

35. agree and recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lerrad]

36. Very good post agree! Kick!

[JuniperLea]

38. I agree

Well said.

[Zhade]

41. With all due respect, YOU don't control the discourse. I will not stop pointing out the facts.

Her lies and race-baiting will not be ignored by me. I can't speak for others, of course.

[JuniperLea]

44. So, basically, you can't do the adult thing...

As long as Jimmy and Tommy are hurling insults, I will too! Harrumph!

:eyes:

[Zhade]

46. The adult thing is NOT letting lies go ignored. NOT letting liars prosper.

The immature thing to do is plug your ears, cover your eyes and pretend that just ignoring the bad acts of people in authority will make everything okay.

That's what children do.

Pointing out the undeniable FACT that clinton lied about things like Tuzla and NAFTA (among other things) is not hurling insults, no matter how much you wish it was.

[JuniperLea]

48. So, you think repeating yourself ad nauseum is going to do anyone some good?

You think we don't all know these things already?

There is a time and a season for everything... it's time to put the barbs away and do something constructive... Clinton is toast. What is the point?

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Then Hillary needs to concede. We heard that she wanted to "wait until after WV" to "end on a win"

Then what happened? Exactly what we knew would- she proclaimed it as some kind of game-changing turnaround, just like PA.

She's made it clear she's not getting off the stage until someone pulls out the Vaudeville Hook, unfortunately.

I think the attacks on her -some of which are warranted, some of which are out of line, IMHO- will stop when she drops out of the race and accepts reality.

[busymom]

50. Just let her lose...

What's the big deal? Let the primaries play out, let her finish it up, let the delegate count and popular vote speak for themselves. Where is the problem here?

[jsmirman]

55. Therein lies the problem. She continues to class bait and to try to tear apart the party

with her intellectually dishonest positioning on Michigan and Florida. It was brilliant for the Edwards thing to happen in Michigan. Florida is probably a lost cause for Obama, anyway. But it's contemptible that Hillary has done her damndest to turn Michigan and Florida against Obama with a purely self-motivated and logically indefensible position.

[jsmirman]

51. Can you understand, though, how morally offensive I find her position on MI and FL?

My position on this is not some political game or an act of point scoring or anything of the like. To actually state that the delegates should be seated based on the results as is- and I am still flabbergasted that she actually says this- I *never* thought she would embrace a position so at odds with logic- is so reprehensible to me that I could never describe her as "honorable" as Edwards did tonight.

I am legitimately appalled. As a proud American who believes in the rule of law and that the greatest threat to democracy is for an illegitimate result to be presented as a legitimate result and as a proud Democrat who believes in the embrace of rationality over ignorance and demagoguery, I find Clinton's actions unforgivable. And before I have to hear that 48 states is an illegitimate result, that was the consequence of rules that were clearly laid out, with clear indications of what was going to happen that were brazenly disregarded, in furtherance of a system everyone has participated in willingly for many, many years. There could be nothing more illegitimate than "elections" conducted under such hopelessly flawed conditions as existed in MI and FL.

I find the level of intellectual dishonesty in Hillary's position deeply insulting. Particularly in light of what she agreed to in her words and the clear words of her campaign with regard to these situations before political expediency led to her current course.

[busymom]

53. oh come on

I don't think there should be problem seating Florida, but I would also oppose seating MI as is. Obama didn't even want a revote....but I have a feeling if politically he had thought it would be to his advantage, he woudl have. It's just politics. It isn't personal.

The bottom line is that it is a difference of opinion and not some huge moral argument. We have rallied behind democrats who have had other scandalous crap....and we'll all end up rallying behind Obama despite the Rev. Wright hoo-ha, any financial issues etc...just like we all rallied behind Bill Clinton despite his little debacles.

In the grand scheme of things, this is a straw man issue. Of course she called for the seating of delegates. Any other politician in a race this close would have done the same...including Obama.

I suggest that at some point, if Obama supporters care much about unity they learn a little compassion and understanding...the same compassion and understanding that they hope the voters will have when some of Obama's less fortunate comments come up in the GE courtesy of McCain...when his lapel pin and patriotism, Rev. Wright, Rezko, Cocain use and everything else is brought back up. If you want me to find my way to embrace him and feel a sense of compassion for how he grew up and the mistakes that he made in his past and has made in the Primaries, then I'd politely suggest showing some compassion for the candidate that I supported.

[jsmirman]

54. You're really not hearing me here. This isn't "just politics" to me. Plenty can be let go

as "just politics". This can't. How can there not be a problem with an election held under the specific guidelines and guidance that the results would not count??? How can you seriously hold to such a position? I just don't get it. How can you possibly know how many voters stayed home as a result of those circumstances? And before you get into turnout, you can't possibly know how many more might have participated. Basic good sense dictates more people will vote in an election that counts than one that doesn't.

This is not a moment of moral failing. This is not a difference of opinion. This is a crass, vile carefully thought out decision to embrace something that is disgustingly illegitimate. It is so incredibly offensive that you don't understand how disgusted I would be with Obama if the situation was reversed. I would NEVER be for the seating of delegates based on an election held under those circumstances. Do you really have the presumption to call me a liar when I say this to you with all sincerity???

This is not a matter of compassion or lack thereof. As I said, this is not about overlooking a scandal. This is a case where a candidate was able to look over something, and in my mind, there was a clear right thing and a clear wrong thing to do- and this candidate chose to pound the table and pervert the issue with something that is morally bankrupt. This was a CHOICE not a failing or an unfair association.

This is not a straw man, and I don't think the term means what you think it does. This is not a false argument created simply to be torn down- this is a candidate flying defiantly in the face of her own party that she signed on to be part of and flying directly in the face of her own words and those of her campaign.

If she chose to make an issue about the lack of a revote and tried to make her case to the SDs and the states that were left all that time ago, that might be one thing- if she tried to make her case by saying Obama doesn't want a revote and I do, that would be a place that there could be a legitimate difference of opinion. But to try to insist on this insane 2205 number and on the delegates being seated, can't you understand that this has nothing to do with compassion, but everything to do with the fact that I have morals that are important to me?

If it wasn't for stuff like this, I would have sympathy for not only her supporters, but even for the woman herself.

But to engage in the kind of intellectual dishonesty that has been the Republicans stock trade for all these years is just awful.

[jsmirman]

61. Ok... what? Not enough bogus compassion, too much "this is what I believe in"

for you?

[Cha]

52. hilary's still a liar, though..you can her to stop that

fucking shit.

[lojasmo]

56. When she quits and gets behind the presumptive nominee.

If she keeps up this shit, she keeps arousing my ire.

[flpoljunkie]

57. Hillary Clinton told Brian Williams tonight that she still believes she "will be the nominee."

She also used the number "2210" for the "magic number"of delegates needed to win the nomination, and is confident the DNC Rules Committee will resolve this and include Florida and Michigan.

If she really believes this will happen, I almost feel sorry for her. Terry McAuliffe told Andrea Mitchell today that Hillary Clinton is today ahead in the popular vote--including the votes of Florida and Michigan, of course. Andrea Mitchell just let this pass without comment.

[KamaAina]

58. DING DING DING!!!

:thumbsup:

Of course, there have been a few gratuitous attacks on Pres. Obama, too. Same goes for them.

[New Dawn]

59. She should drop out of the race, if she does not like being criticized

[quakerboy]

63. I think you are right and wrong

I agree that Obama is the nominee. And the attacks on Hillary should be toned down and taken entirely out of the ad hominym spectra. However, she is still technically in the Primary, and this is GD: primaries.

And she does not have to let anything "wear down" And she sure as hell isn't doing anything to help things "wind down". If anything, she is winding the tensions up higher. If she was letting the races play out, ok. But her campaign is bringing the pain, doing their level best to damage Obama. Not to win, mind you, but to damage Obama. That is not OK by me.

[sfam]

65. Agreed - K&R. It's probably a good idea to have a few threads a day saying this...

I feel we're sort of feel like Sir Lancelot in Monty Python and the Holy Grail - every now and then the "moment" just overtakes us and we start killing all the wedding guests again, and then stop and say, "Sorry, sorry, I didn't really mean that..."

(You'd have to know the movie to get the reference of course, but killing the wedding guests is sorta funny)

[VotesForWomen]

67. you're right, but personally i think it's too late to undo the damage, and we're not talking about j

just a few votes; clinton has got almost as many votes as obama, and he should have thought about what his scorched earth tactics were going to do if he got the nomination.