Drudge: Republicans to abolish IRS

[cygy2k]

Drudge:
Republicans to push for end to IRS

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN AUG 01, 2004 21:01:25 ET XXXXX

REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

**Exclusive**

A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.

"People ask me if I’m really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think that’s a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.

"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult. Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad," Hastert declares in SPEAKER: LESSONS FROM FORTY YEARS IN COACHING AND POLITICS.

"“If you own property, stock, or, say, one hundred acres of farmland and tax time is approaching, you don’t want to make a mistake, so you’re almost obliged to go to a certified public accountant, tax preparer, or tax attorney to help you file a correct return. That costs a lot of money. Now multiply the amount you have to pay by the total number of people who are in the same boat. You can’t. No one can because precise numbers don’t exist. But we can stipulate that we’re talking about a huge amount. Now consider that a flat tax, national sales tax, or VAT would not only eliminate the need to do this, it could also eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) itself and make the process of paying taxes much easier."

"By adopting a VAT, sales tax, or some other alternative, we could begin to change productivity. If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years. All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won’t be so daunting anymore. The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."

Developing...

[disgruntled_goat]

1. yeah, that oughta work.

:eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Those wacky Republicans.

Get wackier every year.

[shivaji]

7. Frankly, I will not miss the IRS

IRS is arrogant, inefficient and has no heart.
Good riddance! They have caused me more grief
than all other agencies combined.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. When I was a community activist, they audited me twice.

And they found errors in the accounting. We got money back!

I have no problem with the IRS. It may have needed improvement when the Dems were in control, but the Republicans did not offer a satisfying solution. They made it so anorexic, that too many tax cheats get away. Frankly, I think tax cheats are disgusting and unpatriotic.

Today, we should have the IRS go after the real money. People making more than $200,000. People who can afford to be included in hedge funds.

[leftyandproud]

3. this is bad..

never underestimate the power of GREED. Lots of selfish Americans will like the idea of abolishing it...they have no forsight.

[Webster Green]

4. Have tax payers send money directly to Cheneys bank accounts...

It will be more efficient. Save the taxpayers (and Cheney) some money.

[olddem43]

5. Great idea - let's dump the entire tax burden on those

who can least afford it. No income tax, no corporate tax, no estate tax and no taxes that wealthy people pay. Just tax the hell out of the poor working person that is living paycheck to paycheck. Good luck selling that one to the 90 percent of us that earn less than 200,000 per year.

[jjmalonejr]

6. I wouldn't reject the concept just because it's a Repub plan

Anyone have any serious reactions (not wisecracks, but informed opinions of what such a proposal could mean).

What are the actual pros and cons?

Pitfalls? Possibilities?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Since The Federal Government Is 20% Of GDP

you will have a 20% across the board national sales tax plus a state income tax which is usually 6 or 7%... so a $20,000 car would cost $25,400.00


The incentive to cheat would be enormous....

[quaoar]

18. In Alabama

State and local government are heavily reliant on sales taxes because property taxes are kept so low. In some cities the sales tax is 10 percent.

[lancdem]

9. Replacing the income tax with a VAT tax

would be a disaster. VAT taxes are regressive, meaning they hit the poorest hardest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Xactly-

Because the less you make the more of your income you spend......

[jpgray]

25. Since the poor spend all their income, all their income is taxed

Whereas the rich only spend a part, therefore only a part is taxed. Also, whereas both rich and poor must spend on essentials like food and clothing, a rich person pays the same tax as a poor one, even if the rich person buys designer clothes and the poor one goes to Target. In other words, this is the ultimate tax plan for the rich, and a crushing one for the poor.

[beyurslf]

The pitfalls are the taxes have to made up somewhere...

a national sales tax is a tax on the poor. My sister and her husband make less than 25K a year and have 3 children. They do not pay income taxes. They would a national sales tax though.

[beyurslf]

27. The pitfalls are the taxes have to made up somewhere...

a national sales tax is a tax on the poor. My sister and her husband make less than 25K a year and have 3 children. They do not pay income taxes. They would a national sales tax though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Maybne The Pugs Could Abolish Premature Ejaculation

that's as likely as abolishing the IRS....

[MichiganVote]

13. Sure, I'll believe it when I see it....the repub IQ = 75

[CPops57]

14. Its a good idea if it is structured a certain way.

A national sales tax (not a VAT) is a good idea as long as a certain market basket of goods was kept tax-free (things like basic clothing, basic food, etc). This allows those with financial difficulty to NOT be harmed at all because they could still survive without paying any tax by structuring their purchasing decisions in a certain way.

I very much dislike the IRS and wouldn't be sad to see it replaced.

I'm glad the rich won't be able to hire a high priced tax lawyer to find tons of loophopes in the ultra-complicated tax code anymore. If a rich person wants to live a life of luxury, he's going to definitely be paying the sales tax for it.

But I don't believe that this is a real proposal at all. This is just a carrot from Bush to get the waffling conservatives/libertarian types
to vote for him. Its so blatantly obvious that this isn't a real proposal and is just fluff.

[YellowDawgDemocrat]

15. I would have a hard time fighting that one

I hate the IRS. But, the Devil is always in the details. Let's see the nuts and bolts.

[tandt5044]

31. A lot of folks would

also refer to this as a 'sin tax'. The taxing of non-essential items (food, clothing, etc) in favor of steeper taxes on tobacco, alcohol, etc.

Personally, I would love to have a future without the IRS....

[cprise]

33. Au contraire

It means that those who must make purchases to get ahead are at a disadvantage. Those who inherit their wealth largely bypass sales tax because they receive property.

All Republican politics of the past 35 years can be seen as an attempt to keep 'newcomers' from getting ahead. They want their existing moneybag-set to remain very wealthy, while the rest become increasingly desperate for the former's dollars.

Additinally, it does make a sort of economic sense: America manufactures very little anymore, so a VAT-based revenue would deter most people from buying foreign goods. Churches would become the intended targets of VAT loopholes and cheating: People will feel compelled to join the larger denomincations to receive goods more cheaply or as alms (charity). I hear the Mormons and some others already do this to a small extent. For instance, the govt. may opt to keep VAT for sales of staple food items, but employ mainly "faith-based" organizations for "hunger relief" and they would get the tax break. Conservatives want to return to a peasantry that must demonstrate religious faith as a condition for receiving services and essential items.

[fujiyama]

16. Wouldn't it cause

a huge black market? People may love the idea at first but they will find any way to get around it.

How would internet sales be affected for example?

I'm not a big fan of the IRS but this would be a MAJOR overhaul.

[TheDonkey]

17. bullshit, they know there is no money in that

and rethugs need all the money they can while still driving us into the hole.

[Zidane]

19. This is real

Take a look at the republican platforms in the states this year... A LOT of them are calling for the abolishment of the IRS. (either directly or indirectly) Obviously this is an actual agenda among the repub leadership.

[CaTeacher]

20. We will not be able to

have effective wealth redistribution if we get rid of the IRS. Plain and simple we NEED the IRS. VAT and sales tax will not do enough to redistribute wealth and bring equality to the people. I do not support this! A person who makes money needs to be happy with less--so that he can help out those who are less fortunate in society. That is the ONLY fair way for a society to be run.

Sorry Bush--we do NOT want to keep our money. Money is the root of all evil. If we share our money with society in order to help the poor--we may have less material possessions, but we will find true happiness.

[TXlib]

37. Are you a communist?

Just curious...

[agincourt]

21. If you think,

running up a deficit is bad now, you havn't seen nothing yet. They want to take everything back to before the civil war. Hello currency failure. Ten dollar euros here we come, whopee. I am seriously thinking of putting everything I own in euros now.

[aldian159]

22. Not a bad idea.

Buy real estate in Europe somewhere if you can (most likely no, but I don't know your situation). Pay in U.S and sell in Euro when the time comes.

[flaminbats]

23. Sounds logical to me!!!

Why even have an IRS when they can use the CIA, FBI, and Department of Homeland Security to collect taxes? :shrug:

There will never be a need to officially raise the tax rates if blackmail can be used..

[drfemoe]

24. Backdoor . as usual

All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won’t be so daunting anymore.

Who collects Social Security and Medicare? The IRS. Just another scam to dump Social Security.

Once that's gone, do you actually believe they will drop INCOME TAX?
I think not.

Stop them NOW. Vote Democratic.

[Dems Will Win]

26. They will NEVER get rid of the PAYROLL TAX or the PROPERTY TAX

So with all taxes added together, depending on your state, EVERY poor person will be losing about 45% of their dough to the Gummints.

Rich people will be taxed less than 8% or 9% depending on property tax rates and state income tax rates...

SOUND FAIR??

IT WILL BE BACK TO THE GILDED AGE OF ROBBER BARONS!!

[shivaji]

28. Forget IRS, what we need is abolition of the TAX CODE

the current tax laws are thousands and thosands pages pages
long. Their enforcement requires an army of IRS workers. Have
you ever tried to call the IRS with a question? I have gotten
different answers to the same question by different people
answering the phone.

People are spending way too much time and money just preparing
their taxes each year. This is a gigantic waste of valuable
resources.

I do not like the VAT and sales tax either. It is regressive.
Very unfair to those on lower incomes who will pay higher
percentage.

Instead, we should have a simple, clean and accurate means
of taxing. I am thinking of a "transaction tax" of something
like 2 to 5% (percentage will be decided by detailed analysis)
on every time there is a transaction. Examples would be getting
a paycheck, buying a car, buying a stock, buying of one company
by another, buying a house.....you get the idea. This will
simply record keeping on stock investments by a factor of 99 to
1. There will be a lot less cheating, and the richer will pay
more since they have more transactions. Food & medicines could
be exempt. There will be no need for other taxes of any knd!

[WI_DEM]

29. so this will probably be the centerpiece of Bush's acceptance speech

Will voters fall for this given the high deficits he has created with his previous tax cuts?

[newyawker99]

30. Hi cygy2k!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[yellowcanine]

32. This is the WORST kind of pandering - even if the income tax is replaced

a notional sales tax or VAT tax - there still would have to be a government agency to collect and enforce the tax law. What does the IRS have to do with it? It wouldn' t make any sense to dismantle the IRS and set up a new agency. It is not even clear to me that there would be any savings in collection and enforcement. For one thing, compliance would probably be harder to enforce.

[Retrograde]

34. a VAT sounds so .... European

and old Europe at that. The French VAT is currently 19.6%, but it's embedded in the sticker price so it's not readily noticeable.

In most countries that have one, the VAT covers everything - purchases, food, services. And it doesn't prevent a country from having other forms of taxation on top of that.

BTW, we've been doing our own taxes for getting over 35 years - including IRAs, stock gains and losses, real estate sale, charitable contributions - it's not as scary as most people seem to think it is. The hard part is getting all the supporting documentation in the first place, but once you train yourself to keep accurate records (sales receipts, contemporary mileage records, transaction records) it's mostly just filling in the forms. Hurray for Turbo Tax!

[shivaji]

36. You are right about the horrendous record keeping, such as

when you buy a stock, you have to keep records of
stock splits, stock dividends, dividend re-investments,
FOR EVER until you sell the stock. Even after the sale,
you have to keep all the cocumentation for 7 MORE years.

My idea of a transaction tax (see my previous post) to
replace capital gains tax will completely eliminate the
need for any record keeping.

[Jade Fox]

35. A direct appeal by the Republicans to the idiot vote.....

Let's face it: There are a lot of people out there who, when they hear
about this, will think it means they will no longer have to pay taxes. They're
the same people who like Bush because he gave them a $300 tax refund,
then mortagaged their children's and grandchildren's future with his deficit
spending.