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Hillary around for 16 years: 1200 pages of RNC oppo research; Obama, only 3 years: 1000 pages

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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:07 AM
Original message
Hillary around for 16 years: 1200 pages of RNC oppo research; Obama, only 3 years: 1000 pages
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/08/998470.aspx

From MSNBC's David Shuster
Two Republican officials at the Republican National Committee who are involved in "opposition research efforts" in preparation for the general election say the RNC's oppo research dossier on Sen. Clinton runs more than 1,200 pages in length.

According to these officials, the book includes "previously undisclosed information about Hillary Clinton's connections to the Whitewater scandal, travel office firings, and Democratic fundraising efforts." Given that the book has not been shared with us, we've been unable to confirm this assertion. Furthermore, the Republican officials would not describe the nature of the "new information."

However, I was not directed away from a front-page story in today's Washington Times about memos/documents from the estate of Sam Dash, Ken Starr's ethics adviser during the early stages of the Whitewater investigation. The Dash Whitewater memos and documents have been turned over to the Library of Congress (where they were presumably available to the Washington Times reporter/researcher). The documents reportedly show that prosecutors concluded that Hillary Clinton concealed information and misled a federal grand jury about her work for the Savings and Loan at the heart of the Whitewater investigation. The allegation that she concealed and misled is not new, and was sourced by reporters who covered the investigation in the 1990s (including me) to "attorneys close to Starr" or "sources in the office of the independent counsel."

The documents from Dash's estate, however, mark the first available "documentary evidence" that Ken Starr's office drafted a criminal indictment of Senator Clinton, also known as a "pros memo" and debated verbally and through written memos whether Clinton should actually face charges. The documents indicate, according to the Washington Times, that prosecutors in the end decided not to charge Sen. Clinton because of their concern about the strengths of their evidence and the likelihood of obtaining a conviction of a sitting first lady. But such memos, documents, and etc. about the internal debate in the office of the independent counsel could be a gold mine for negative ads, etc.

By the way, to put the RNC's opposition research effort into context, I'm told the dossier on Senator Obama is 1,000 pages in length and that Republican researchers spent a few weeks in Chicago recently collecting information on Obama's ties to the Weather Underground" and separately to Tony Rezko (who is currently on trial for federal corruption charges).


Let's analyze the facts: Hillary has been in the Republicans' crosshairs for 16 years, ever since Bill's first election in 1992. She has 1,200 pages of opposition research. That is 75 pages per year.

Now, regarding Obama: He has been in the Republicans' crosshairs for three years, ever since he was elected to the Senate. Given that he has 1000 pages of opposition research total, that is 333 pages per year.

What does it say about Obama's shady connections that his enemies have accumulated opposition research at the pace of 333 pages per year? What else do we not know about Barack Obama?

Not to mention that, most likely, a good amount of the opposition research that has been compiled by the RNC against Hillary has already been used and is already well-known considering the Republicans have been attempting a coordinated hit-job on her for almost 2 decades.

How many October Surprises does Obama have for us?
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Your first choice lost. Get over it. Look towards November.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. It would help if you actually READ posts
before your knee jerk dismissal.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Your first choice lost. Get over it. Look towards November.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #104
120. Knee jerk responses help no-one
Never a good idea to follow blindly. Never a good idea to suspend your critical faculties and start lashing out. However strong your emotional impulses and feelings doing so is intellectually weak.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #103
127. He can't comprehend the post....
...because it has no pictures.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. That is a possibility. However
I don't know if that is better or worse than over emotional reactionism and deliberate refusal to engage the brain.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why don't we just ask the Republicans who they'd rather run against.
Republicans are honest, right?
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Well, you watch TV news, so you already know.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Crap was flung and he is STILL winning.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:11 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. That is because the media was easy on him.
They didn't vet him.

The Republicans will, though. 1000 pages of oppo. research in 3 years proves that.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. LMAO! They did hours and hours and hours on Wright!!
Abrams spent the weekend on it!
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Doesn't matter.
He already had an insurmountable delegate lead with the help of sham undemocratic low turnout caucuses by then.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Why weren't the "sham" caucuses a problem BEFORE Obama was winning them?
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
110. Bitter much? Lmao!!!
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AZSlacker Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
125. Jeez. If only you could go back in time and let Penn know that Democratic primaries are proportional
Edited on Fri May-09-08 07:48 AM by AZSlacker
They may have been able to develop a winning strategy, which included a plan on how to win caucuses. It is a shame that Hillary's phenomenal leadership skills don't include the ability to choose competent staff to delegate to, eh?
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
108. Exactly.
It isn't like the Repukes have been shy about telling us who they want to be the Democratic nominee.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. What are the Repukes holding onto for the GE?
You know they've got the goods on him.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Yes they do. 333 pages a year is a staggering number. n/t
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
89. double spaced size 18 font
whoopeee.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #89
122. Do you have any proof of that assertion? n/t
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. Did you read the article? Rezko (trial over IIRC) and Ayers (Obama
was 8 years old). If there was some vicious stuff on him, doncha think it would have been released already? I do.
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
111. Yep and the Clintons would have pushed it out there too...
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Are you trying to get me to switch my support to Hillary from Obama?
Is that why you posted this?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. SELF DELETE - wrong place. nt
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:15 AM by gateley
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Maybe to share information?
:shrug:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. Well, I thank the OP for the effort,
but it's info that doesn't concern me all that much.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. How many pages of oppo research do they have on bill?
If I recall correctly many of the BS scandals of the clinton era involved BOTH of them, so couldn't a large chunk of what they have on her be in bills? Just sayin'
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
79. Zing, and yes! nt
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Obama is the repukes choice.
Pusbutt done said so. :rofl:
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. WTF?
is that creepy little spider in your sig line doing? I don't know why, but it makes me feel like I should look away :rofl:
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
52. That is a fly ...
and he is overjoyed at the thought that there is shit all around him. :rofl:
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
58. Well, as long as its not a spider...
then I love that giddy little fly! :)
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. I think someone described him as "giddy." They think they've wrapped it.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
67. Yup, they are very giddy to run against such a weak candidate. n/t
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #67
112. Tsk Tsk Bitter Bitter Bitter...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. Too bad for the GOP that they've ALREADY thrown the whole 1000 pages of slime at Barak
and yet he keeps WINNING!!

Translation: the GOP's already blown their wad.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
30. The GOP hasn't even started on him yet.
He has a glass jaw and the Republicans are just giddy to get their hands on him. They have a lot of material on him in just 3 years.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
64. ooooh. That sounds really BAD. I'll be switching to Hillary tomorrow!!!
I'm curious, just how would you know about all this?

I'm also noticing a distinct lack of any specifics as to exactly what dastardly deeds Barak has committed.

Oh well, I always trust veiled innuendos from anonymous on-line sources .. so no worries.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. See Clinton, William Jefferson pp. 32,281-58,219
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM by JVS
Fore example. There's probably a shitload of stuff on Whitewater. They don't need to write it over for the HRC file, they just look that up in the Bill file.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Why deflect? Bill Clinton isn't running. n/t
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Yeah, neither was Wright.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:15 AM
Original message
The RNC compiled oppo data on Wright?
What are you talking about?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
34. The media had no problem linking Wright to Obama. You think they won't link Clinton to Clinton?
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:17 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
Especially since he's her number one surrogate.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Bill is the significant other of a presidential candidate.
Is Reverend Wright?

What point are you trying to make?



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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. Her ties with her husband are closer than Obama's ties to Wright.
If you really don't get that or you don't think they would link Hillary to every mistake Bill ever made, well...
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #48
61. I don't know...
she REALLY wants to win, maybe tomorrow she will denounce and reject bill? ;)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. What I was hinting at is that a document about HRC doesn't require completely new information...
they will reference to the pages of research on Bill Clinton that apply to her.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. It says they realized that Obama would be the candidate to beat
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:32 AM by merh
and they have done more writing on him and his connections.

The report on Obama may be 1000 pages in length, but I bet it does not have a bibliography like Hillary's - separate texts, huge bound volumes, that expound upon the footnotes in the report they have on her.

Edited to add: Oh, btw, Hillary has given them plenty of videos and audio statements to work with, not to mention her lovely interviews. She made it easy for them, you know all the lies she couldn't keep up with and the racist statements.

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. What's the point ?
I mean besides sounding like the sour grapes sock puppet??
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
38. The point is that the Rethugs have a lot of opposition research on him in only 3 years.
And they haven't even started on him yet.

1000 pages of opposition research will be revealed about Obama over the next few months if he is the nominee. What do we not know about Barack Obama? 1000 pages is a lot in only 3 years.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. And this is going to change exactly what???
They are going to trash anyone we put up.

Get on board, help where you can.

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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Most of the Rethug opposition research has been used on Hillary.
Apparently you missed 1992-2000? And then 2000-2006 during her Senate term.

What they have on Hillary is nothing compared to what they have on a freshman senator who nobody knows about. 1000 pages of opposition research in only 3 years.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #55
68. Maybe I wasn't clear: SO FUCKING WHAT???
Why are you such a coward?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. Pointing out the facts is being a coward? n/t
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Acting like this makes any difference, like we should fear these things
is a cowardly way to lobby for your "candidate." Which is really all you're doing.

Too little too late, she's

TOAST!



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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. We should fear that in only 3 years the RNC has tons of dirt on Obama
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:49 AM by NJSecularist
that we likely don't know about.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #70
76. You are not pointing out facts - you are pointing out innuendo.
Unless you know what is in those 1000 pages, your post is garbage.

All that the number of pages means is they are desperatly searching for something they can use - it doesn't mean there's one charge per page. Or even one wild guess per page.

You know full well that ten pages of solid fact is more dangerous than a thousand pages of guessing.

If you have no facts, you have nothing.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #76
87. That's right. Nothing

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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #55
113. She's not going to be the nominee get over it and get on board...
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. And how much of that shit is "HE WENT TO A MADRASSA!"
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #38
92. Fearfearfearfearfearfearfear = a REPUKE frame
That is why Clinton is unelectable. Using Repuke framing says that they are right and she is wrong, whatever she does. Nothing she has ever done has stopped them from smearing her. Her strategy seems to be ignoring the smears, which as we all know really worked great for Kerry.

Oppo research is irrelevant bullshit. If the Repukes don't have facts, they'll just make them up.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. So you're saying they have 200 more pages of dirt on HIllary?
Thanks for the warning. I was about to switch to her. :eyes:
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Original message
Hilary has been in their crosshairs for 16 years.
Obama, only 3.

Don't you think that Hillary should have a lot more opposition research against her? She has been around much longer. Yet Obama is just barely behind her and he is bound to pass her soon enough..
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
56. And you think they'll dig up in six months what it took 13 years to get on HIllary?
Maybe, just maybe, the entire file is filled with silly bullshit "issues" like Wright and Ayers. If that means something to you then you go down that road. I'd prefer to reason like an adult.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. Yes lets analyze the facts, shall we?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
24. Obama was born in 2005? nt
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
25. That is such stupid logic
that the # of pages corresponds to the seriousness of the raised in the research.

I would take a friendship with Ayres and Rezko over nearly being indicted by a Special Prosecutor.

What's happened to you? You always seemed like a fairly intelligent kid.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. how big was the font?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
101. bring a magnifing glass..
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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #101
115. Ha Ha..and I know you are in pain...as is all of Hilly 44
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #115
131. If thats what you think...no, we feel YOUR pain..
Out of the box, McCain issues a SMACKDOWN to Obama today?

ewwwh!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
32.  NJ Super D Congressman Payne isn't worried - he just switched from HRC to Obama. nt
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. Fuck what the Republicans do. If you want to choose the candidate based on what Republicans do, then
you are frankly playing on a battlefield of their choosing, not your own.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
36. So how many pages of dirt we got on McCain then?
50 years =?

On another note I can't believe you're trying to spin republican filth...you ever hear the saying you can't polish a turd? Well this is exactly what you are doing.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
37. This has gotta be your worst post yet
So the Dems should select a candidate based on how many pages of opposition research the GOP has on them?

:rofl:


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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I don't know. Did you see the gem on how Obama was winning because of "white guilt"?
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
And the BLACKS!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. Lee Mercer Jr: 3 pages.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
40. great post-you just changed my mind!
GO HILLARY!!!!!!


:woohoo:



:sarcasm:
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:21 AM
Original message
I had a similar revelation today.
I just found out Obama was black and figured that he only won the Idaho caucuses by 80% because all 5 of the democrats in that state are black. I gotta vote my race man.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
45. Well, just speaking logically,
and not speaking to the validity or relevance, wouldn't you expect the first instance of investigation to yeild the most with succesive attempts yielding less and less? I mean, how many pages did they have on Hillary 3 years into it? Maybe 1000. And really what does page count have to do with anything? Maybe they used a bigger font, maybe the double spaced. Maybe they typed Muslim 50,000 times. Who knows.? Who cares? I think we've seen the effect of negative campaigning against Obama.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
46. This is like playing math with delegates and primary/caucus votes
pages per year.... unbelievable....

Then you ask how many October surprises Obama has???


Well, by your mathematic standards approximately 1000/1200 as many as Hillary....

OK, besides the math canard, you know what is most ridiculous about this post?

The desperate grasping of straws that somehow gives your reason to stay in the denial phase.

I'm sorry. Posts like this are tragic. I know what it is like to lose a a favorite candidate in the nomination process. I was for Hart in 84, Babbit in 88, Harkin in 92, Bradley in 2000, Dean in 2004, and Edwards in 2008. I honsestly feel for you.

But seriously dude, making up random mathematical arguments in the face of the delegate math you refuse to comprehnd or at least admit to, is amazing.

Can we please get to anger already? I mean even the DLC is in bargaining mode...

Jeez... Sympathy can only stretch so far.




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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. Let's analyze the facts. There are none.
"Given that the book has not been shared with us, we've been unable to confirm this assertion."
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. You mean a Republican might...lie? NEVER!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
50. The Repigs have jackshit...and besides, the Rezko case closed...
You seem to think that pages of information are of equal "value".

I have compiled NEW unvetted Hillary and Bill scandals that might fit into six pages that would utterly take them down if the mainstream media did their job. Refute ANYTHING there:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/zulchzulu/176

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. Proves nothing except that some Repubs are smart enough to prepare for the GE.
They would have had this much against any of the Dems running.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #53
62. I cant wait until we prepare for the GE. I hope we can start soon. n/t
n/t
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. I suspect the Obama campaign already has their own oppo research.
And that they'll hit the ground running.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
54. Do you really think it's valid to divide pages by years?
That doesn't make much sense to me. Do you really think they put as many man hours into each of those 16 years as they put into each of the three years (or less) that they've been researching Obama?

They probably put a LOT of resources into researching Obama recently whereas their info on Clinton was almost certainly gathered at a more leisurely pace over the longer period.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. Yes. Hillary has been on the national public scene for 16 years.
Obama has been on the national public scene for 3 years.

Yet they nearly compiled enough data in 3 years against Obama than in 16 years against Hillary.

What do we not know about Barack Obama?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #59
81. Do you know the meaning of the word 'research'?
They have spent the past two years gathering all the information they can, going back 30 years, on Obama, all the way back to college. THAT is what is in the 1000 pages. (And how much of that is exerpts from the two books he's written about himself?)

They've been expecting to run against Hillary since 2000, so they've spent the last 8 years gathering all the information they can, going back 40 years, on Hillary, all the way back to college. And they've whittled that down to 1200 pages of the choicest material. Do you really think that Ken Starr could spend 80 million dollars investigating the Clintons and came up with only 1200 pages of material? And the eight years SINCE the Clinton administration just adds to what they already have.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #59
97. You didn't answer my objection.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 04:44 AM by drm604
You just restated your original point without justifying it.
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swishyfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
57. ****BREAKING**** It's fucking over Jersey.
Thanks for carrying water for the RNC.

The Clinton's have just a teensy bit more oppo research? REALLY?
El Rushbo has been digging shit up for the last 20 years.

Really.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
60. Then I guess we better get to work in fighting McCain. I'm ready whenever you are.
n/t
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
63. We are DoOmEd. Shi!. He has more pages than her. Lots more. We are doomed. DoOmEd
Yawn. Are we supposed to care about a page count. Why post this drivel.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
66. Are they consistent on line spacing? Single or double...
Edited on Fri May-09-08 12:38 AM by bhikkhu
That's what I'd like to know.

It would just throw everything into confusion if they were double-spacing Obama and single-spacing Hillary. But that would be just like those guys.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #66
84. Hell, they probably have Obama on doublespaced 16pt bold
with 1 1/2 inch margins, and Hillary single-spaced 8pt with 1/2 inch margins - that's the only way they could fit 80 million dollars of Ken Starr research into only 1200 pages.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #84
91. I hadn't even thought about font size...
The possibilities multiply. Anything with Wright in it is likely 36 pt at the very least. In fact, it works much better on posters than letter size standard.

Come to think of it, do we have any assurance that Obama's file is even on the same size of paper? Do all-caps count the same? Have the margins been unfairly adjusted?

Exactly what sort of evil geniuses are we up against here?
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kirby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
69. Consultants are paid by the page...
Yours would be 1000 pages too if that is what they budgeted.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. it's inflation n/t
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
73. .......what facts?
i am always amazed when people post these articles that have 0 creditable facts...and expect people to believe it.

"Washington Times"? now there`s a creditable news source to include in an article.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #73
77. Washington Times is not a credible news source?
Since when?

Is Keith Olbermann the only credible news source to you guys nowadays?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. i have`t watched ko in weeks.....
and if you think rev moon`s paper is creditable ....

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Washington_Times
Washington Times - SourceWatch

you have no reason to think i watch ko
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #77
85. Ever since it was bought by fucking I'm The New Messiah
Reverend Moon TWENTY FUCKING YEARS AGO.

Do try to keep up.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #77
106. No, it's not. Are you new to this?
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
74. It's OVER, loser
O.V.E.R.

Hillary Clinton will never be President of the United States. It's done.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. Loser? So much for hope and change and unity, huh?
You O-bots are so pleasant, aren't you? :puke:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. Whatever
I never bought into the hope, change, and unity thing. Just want something different.

But you are a loser. And it is absolutely delicious to watch YOU, in particular, flailing around. Hilarious, actually. No, I'm not in the hope and unity crowd. I am in the Fun-to-Watch-Discredited-Loser-NJSEcularist cry and moan crowd, though.

:rofl:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
78. YOU LOST!
lol
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
83. Hehe ... I have to admit, this is actually pretty funny
Nothing but an "I'm told" and we're supposed to panic?

BTW, I love this as a new metric. Can't win the votes or the delegates, so now it's dirt and oppo research. Brilliant!
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DB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. The repukes are truly scared of a man who could landslide them, HRC never will.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
90. Yeah, but
how many of those supposed 1000 pages are just "Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit, HES BLACK, Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit,Oh Shit, Oh Shit"

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #90
94. LOL!!
This is getting to be too much.

Good night.
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
93. ....
Edited on Fri May-09-08 01:36 AM by Bright Eyes
:nopity:

He won, she lost. Let it go.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
95. She's lost, give it up
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
96. 3 problems with that
Firstly, you're assuming a steady flow of information. That rarely happens. What happens more often is that the first "pass" yields most info with each successive pass yielding less and less. Three years in, the file on Hillary may have been 1000 pages with them only finding enough crap in the next 13 years to add 200 more. In other words, if they have 1000 pages on Obama, it may be because that's all there was.

Secondly, the sourcing is dubious. While I'm sure Shuster is telling the truth, he makes it very clear that he was only told about this dossier. He wasn't shown it or allowed to examine it's contents. He may well have been fed misinformation.

Finally, it's fairly irrelevant how many pages of oppo research teh Repugs have because they've proved in the past that if they can't find any actual dirt, they'll just make shit up and their media echo chamber will make sure it sticks. Remember Al Gore claiming to have invented the internet? Which he never said and wouldn't have been that much of a stretch if he had. Or Troopergate? David Brock goes into great detail in Blinded By The Right about how Troopergate was manufactured from wholecloth but that didn't stop the charges being repeated 24/7 for years. If the Repugs were comitted to only using factual charges, the amount of oppo research they have might matter but they aren't so it doesn't.
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Citizen Kang Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
98. I'm gonna miss you....
I hope you still vote for BHO though.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:02 AM
Response to Original message
99. Hillary is not going to be the nominee. Why continue with this?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
100. If I'd authorized or spent the money all those years
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:11 AM by depakid
My guess is that I'd be pretty sure I'd weeded down to 1200 pages what really, really worked, so that I'd get the best return on the investment....

That said, no doubt that there are still some surprises, out there.

Anyone who believes that the far right and their corporate media sycophants didn't have everything on Wright last summer, while Obama basked in positive coverage wasn't paying much attention- or didn't do 5 minutes homework.

Query: If that's so -why did it come out in March?

Blame Hillary, right?

Hmmm.

Something to think about.

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
102. Y'all worry too much. Americans are repulsed by Republicans and their sleazy tactics.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 05:51 AM by Perry Logan
My friends, there's not enough Kool-Aid in the world to make people forget who brought the Republic to its knees in just six years.

Besides the fact that they'll be more concerned with staying alive than with lies about Democrats, I think most Americans have noticed that the people who most malign Democrats tend to be criminals, traitors, child molesters, and drug addicts. Millions of us have turned away from the mass media altogether.

The whole world knows the Republicans blew their shot. They're broke, demoralized, strapped with legal fees, and in a state of organizational disarray. Their power base was decimated at the state level--where the elections are rigged--in 2006.

It's even possible that the Republican power brokers have figured out that being in office is the worst possible thing for them. The Republican thing just can't stand the glare of public examination!

Non-Clintophobes can take heart from the example of Bill Clinton. Despite several multimillion-dollar smear campaigns against him, he wound up tied with FDR as most popular President of the 20th Century. So the smear machine was never that powerful.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
105. It means Obama is the bigger threat to them. nt
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
107. Are you a Republican?
After all, what sort of "ties" could Barack Obama have with the Weather Underground, when the organization was effectively defunct while the candidate was a child? We've already seen much of what the Republicans have to throw - all guilty-by-any-association clumps of poop that, in typical GOP style, are overly exaggerated and repeated like a mantra. The danger here isn't in the creative "research" by Republicans (I think McCain is the one with lots more skeletons in his closet) but in the obviously biased media's love of anything tabloid as 'truth."

Since we've already seen how creative the media can be with anything they can remotely manufacture as titillating, our job is to be ready to go right back at the media with our own investigations - after all, the media's credibility is less than stellar now as well.

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Doityourself Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
109. It's over. Frick the Rethugs...and their Bullshit...and the October surprise. Hillary lost..
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
114. Yes, 1600 on Hillary....you forgot the 20,000 pages on Billl
that come along as bonus baggage.


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Girlieman Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
116. Are you stupid or insane?
Do you really think that the number of pages of "opposition research" that the other sides supposedly has on a candidate is so important? Honestly, it's beyond comprehension that a thinking adult would vote based on such nonsense.

Even if the quantity of opposition research in pages (versus content) were itself significant, look at what you're reacting to:

"I'm told the dossier on Senator Obama is 1,000 pages in length"

Told by whom? Do you really think that Repugs always tell the truth when they "leak" anonymous information to reporters? I don't suppose in the history of GOP dirty politics, there has ever been a single instance of misinformation. No, that has never happened.

Do you honestly believe that there is a single "dossier" out there, neatly typed in numbered pages.

Jeesh, I know you desperately want to cling to straws to get your gal elected, but don't lose your powers of critical thinking in the process.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
117. Well, that's one category in which she leads. nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
118. Within a few days, maybe as much as two weeks: you have a choice to make.
What will it be?
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
119. Faulty Hil-logic
3 years ago is 2005. I guarantee their research goes BEFORE 2005. Why must someone point out this obvious fact to you? Hillary LOST! Get over it. Now go to the corner of your room and cry your eyes out that your messiah is now a national race-baiting disgrace.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
121. Page 1
Barack Obama is a BIG SCARY BLACK MAN....

Page 2: His name is one letter off from Osama..

Page 3: He has big ears

Page 4: He's BLACK

Page 5: His middle name is HUSSEIN

Page 6: "He likes.... chocolate milk" (OK stole that one from Billy Madison...)

Page 7: "Miss Lippy's car... is GREEN" (Had to add that one too)

Page 8: "He's BLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK"
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
123. Soon you won't be able to post this shit anymore.
.
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reflection Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
124. Yes, but Obama's oppo is double spaced. n/t
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
126. Even the RNC is biased toward Obama.
:cry:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
129. Probably 900 pages of it was Rev Wright. Thought they had a lethal winner. n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
130. Number of pages is not the best metric
Consider the situations where we know there is very little - Gore or Kerry. You COULD write many many pages, but nothing on any page would amount to very much in the end. In fact, the need to find something would push the researchers to look harder and deeper than if there are things available lying near the surface.
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