A question for Hillary supporters on her recent "white vote" statements:

[shomino]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-05-07-clintoninterview_N.htm

What exactly is Hillary implying about white voters here? Do any Hillary supporters have a reasonable explanation for why she thinks "working class white voters" won't vote for Obama? What does the voters' race have to do with it, if it's because of Obama's policies and not the color of his skin?

Is she somehow implying that "white working class voters" have a better insight into who will make a better President? If not, what exactly is she lauding about getting their vote?

[TwilightGardener]

1. Plenty of working-class white voters voted for Obama. He doesn't have a problem with them.

She, on the other hand, has a real problem with blacks. But nobody cares about black people, apparently.

[leftofcool]

2. In the same way Obama appeals to Black voters, Hillary

appeals to working class white voters. She has been getting those votes, just like Obama is getting the Black vote. Look at the percentages.

[highplainsdem]

8. Yes. She's simply talking about a voting bloc.

And the hysterical overreactions to that, and the accusations of racism, are as idiotic as the hysteria yesterday when she mentioned RFK and some people spun that into hints that Obama would be assassinated.

It's really disillusioning to see this much irrationality and hysteria here.

[maddiejoan]

3. Continue trying to imply

that Hillary Clinton is a racist

and THIS "working class white voter" will sit her ass at home on election day.

[cali]

5. feel free. I'm so bored with petty little threats not to vote.

I certainly don't care if you sit out on your porch and rock the the day away. That's your choice.

[maddiejoan]

11. You had better take this VERY seriously

because I'm not alone.

Tar and feather her at your peril.

Obama has likey won the nomination --this need to destroy Hillary will kill the chances of Obama to win the Presidency.

[cali]

12. You really should only speak for yourself.

And nothing I do or say on DU is likely to make a difference, though I've been clear that I have no problem with Hillary staying in the race. I feel no need to destroy Hillary, and I'm sure that after she drops out she'll fully support Obama and work to bring her voters over to him. You're being melodramatic.

[Tropics_Dude83]

14. Cali...how can you have no problems with HRC staying in the race?

She's starting a race war and tearing down our likely nominee. This is outrageous.

[cali]

23. more melodrama. She is certainly not starting a race war.

and she's not succeeding at tearing down Obama. It's actually helpful at this point. If she dropped out this week, she'd still, almost certainly, wallop Obama in WV and KY and that would look very bad for him. In addition, many of her supporters would feel that she'd been bullied out of the race and that would further diminish the chance that they'd support Barack.

[highplainsdem]

13. I agree.

[DemGa]

16. Also agree - but this was the gamble of the Obama campaign

Apparently they thought it necessary - Destruction of the Clintons legacy - their complete vilification, and accusations of racism.

It doesn't say much for Team Obama's views of their candidate and the people they manipulate.

[gal]

28. You should take all voters seriously.

Do you honestly think Hillary supporters are the only ones that are commiteed to their candidate?
You can not win by threatening not to vote, no matter which candidate wins the nomination people will be unhappy and there will be some that will not vote or switch parties but, you know what? That's politics. Thank you for playing.

[Texas Hill Country]

6. ditto.... hell, if this meme starts getting pushed by any of his surrogates, ill go out and

campaign for McCain.

[Blue_Roses]

40. whatever,

:eyes: If you're going to let a "meme" decide between McCain and Obama, then I really have to wonder if you really support the Democratic party at all:shrug:

[Shakespeare]

53. Cluephone says: It's not Obama's camp pushing this meme.

It's Hillary's singular excuse for staying in the race right now. It's not racist, but it IS opportunistic, because it plays on the racist attitudes of a certain block of voters. And it's vile.

[Eric Condon]

79. I'd watch what you say on these boards about actively supporting the GOP nominee.

Read the DU rules. I already alerted.

[shomino]

9. I don't need to imply anything

I'm just looking at the statement she made regarding the race makeup of her constituency.

Obama lauds the fact he gets votes from all colors of people, including whites. Obama gets the majority of the black vote, but he's not lauding that, is he? Actually, I don't think he lauds the race of any of his voters as part of his "electability".

You still haven't answered the question as to what exactly SHE is implying by this? Too easy to point the finger at Obama supporters instead of examining her statements, eh?

[hokies4ever]

18. Oh no! Sit at home threat!

You're part of the 'static America' that Obama talked about in his Philadelphia speech. Please step aside while the rest of us pick up your slack and move this country forward.

P.S. Say bye-bye to Roe v. Wade if McCain is elected. Hillary thinks this election is just about her coronation, but some of us other people realize that it's about stopping another 4 years of one of the worst Presidents we've ever had.

[maddiejoan]

19. I don't see Obama making good picks for SC

so that's not a compelling argument.

Hell -- the Party had to talk him out of John Roberts.

[hokies4ever]

22. Obama is as pro-choice as it gets

Do your homework.

[maddiejoan]

25. Then why did he even think about supporting Roberts?

Explain that to me. How did he even consider that to be a viable choice at any point?

[hokies4ever]

30. Did you know that Obama endured criticisms of

being in favor of infanticide by Republicans because of his state Senate abortion rights voting record? A little more respect for his pro-choice position is in order.

On the other hand, do you think that Bush would ever nominate someone pro-choice? You can't just filibuster the judicial nominee for 4 years you know. The President selects judicial nominees, plain and simple. If McCain is the President, Roe v. Wade overturned.

[maddiejoan]

32. I respect his record

I question whether he is a "leader" on it though -- and I worry about his need for compromise.

Will he pick strong liberal SC choices --or will he try and pick mutually agreeable choices?

[hokies4ever]

33. Here's your answer

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ILVLzbBcs8A

From the Chicago branch of NOW. Obama was the ONLY US senator who helped NOW fight against South Dakota's abortion ban bill.

I appreciate you now joining the Obama supporters. :rofl:

[maddiejoan]

34. Don't hold your breath

[hokies4ever]

35. Bye-bye Roe v. Wade

and hello to back alley abortions. I won't beg for your vote. Indecision is the worst decision. As the saying goes, don't complain if you don't vote.

[maddiejoan]

36. fearmongering.

[hokies4ever]

39. McCain-mongering

He was quoted yesterday telling a crowd that he will nominate conservative judges, and pundits pointed out that John Paul Stevens will be 88 when the next President takes office and the Supreme Court is 1 conservative away from overturning Roe v. Wade.

Nothing wrong with Dem 'fear-mongering' when it's just warning that we need to avoid McCain and his 3rd term for Dubya. It's time to bring the troops home and restore a sense of decency to the White House!

[maddiejoan]

42. Okay fine.

Obama will make better SC picks than McCain --no argument.

They won't be as good as the picks Hillary would make.

[hokies4ever]

41. Please don't stay at home

After all, we all know that NY is as red a state as they come. :rofl:

[maddiejoan]

43. laugh it up

I'm not the only woman that will get turned off if Hillary is continually attacked as a racist --ESPECIALLY now that Obama is the likely nominee.

[hokies4ever]

46. Just making sure her baggage was completely rummaged through.

You know that the Republicans would do this if she were the nominee. She'll thank us for this later. If she doesn't have the 'testicular fortitude' to deal with this, then she should stay at home and have tea and bake cookies. :rofl:

I love using Hillary's own words against her. :rofl:

[shomino]

48. I want to reiterate..

That I am not by any means attacking Hillary as being personally racist. I am accusing her of exploiting racism among others for her own political gain.

I know that she would be a much better candidate than McCain, and I do not "despise" her as some other Obama supporters do. I just want to see her more supportive of Obama since as you say, he is the likely nominee.

It's time for us to stop tearing each other down and exploiting divisions, it's time to start unifying our party again.

[maddiejoan]

57. How much more supportive can she be?

She has stated multiple time that if he's the nominee she will "work her heart out for him" and how important it is for us to have a Democratic President.


Truthfully --the ONLY reason at this point that I will vote for Obama is BECAUSE she said that.

[shomino]

59. There is a way to be MUCH more supportive.

Drop out and throw her support behind him. Wouldn't that be "more supportive"?

[maddiejoan]

62. It's supportive of Obama maybe

not very supportive of half the Democratic Party that supports her --or even supportive of what her supporters feels is the right course for our nation.

She's running for President --not Obama's mother.

[shomino]

63. Obama's "mother"!?

I'm speechless at such a statement.

[maddiejoan]

64. Why?

That's what you're asking her to be.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddiejoan]

66. Huh?

where did I do that?

[hokies4ever]

67. I'm finished talking with you

go talk with yourself. Bye.

[maddiejoan]

70. You never started

you were talking AT me

[shomino]

68. I have done no such thing.

I have never brought Hillary Clinton's sex into this debate. Now you bring it up and say she would be "mothering" him by supporting him. This coming from someone who accuses Obama supporters of "sexism". I must say I'm surprised and disappointed.

[maddiejoan]

69. Should I have said it this way?

Why do you want her to be Obama's Daddy?

[shomino]

72. Now you're lampooning yourself.

Imagine your indignation if such a statement were reversed.

[maddiejoan]

73. ...

:shrug:


I save my indignation for real offences, cupcake.

[shomino]

75. Someone needs a "reality" check then.

Save your patronizing comments, I'm not your "cupcake". Your hypocrisy is stunning.

[maddiejoan]

76. ain't it though?

[Bonobo]

86. "I'm not a hater" -what a crock of shit, that was the second I read it.

[maddiejoan]

87. where have I shown hatred?

[cali]

44. hey, Feingold actually did vote for Roberts. So did Leahy

They're both staunchly pro-choice. The fact is that Roberts was eminently qualified and it's not as if bush would ever have nominated anyone better. Roberts replaced an anti-choice Justice. The chance of getting a pro-choice justice to replace Rehnquist was exactly zero. Of course, Obama is pro-choice. It's impossible to take you seriously when you suggest otherwise.

[maddiejoan]

45. I haven't suggested otherwise

so you're basically doing to me what you do to Hillary.

Distort my words.

[hokies4ever]

49. Quit playing the victim card

It's sort of pathetic. Obama is pro-choice, period. What are you complaining about?

[maddiejoan]

52. Where am I playing a victim card?

[cali]

51. Excuse me? I haven't ever distorted HIllary's words. I haven't

been in high dudgeon about her comments about white voters though I do think they were ill chosen. YOU just pulled that false accusation out of a dark place. And YOU are the one that said you don't trust Obama re the Supreme Court. I don't trust people who feel free to make shit up.

[maddiejoan]

56. Cali

You do it all the time.

and what I said is --I don't trust it as much as I trust Hillary's

[cali]

71. you mischaracterize Obama's words all the time

you post right wing hit pieces that get locked. You make false accusations.

[maddiejoan]

78. really?

I've never started an anti-Obama thread ever.

Not even once --and I've never had a thread of mine locked either.

[cali]

81. lol. you've posted scores of them. And the HItchens'

piece was the latest. And it was locked.

[maddiejoan]

82. You're confusing me with another

I'm "maddie" --she's "Maddy"

[TheZug]

24. She's not a racist, anymore than she's a "working class hero" . . .

She just says whatever she thinks is useful at any given time.

And it's gotten progressively weirder and more shameful.

[Window]

47. That's your prerogative. However, this is your country, too, and

you, and those who feel the same, will get the government you deserve.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. It's rather hard to determine without reading the entire interview. However,

since so many of the polls have broken the voting population down into so many different groups based on race, gender, age, etc. she may have been responding to a specific question about a specific voting block. As I said, it's hard to determine when you are just reading excerpts and not the entire interview.

[Enrique]

7. she's saying it's an important group for the general election

[ShortnFiery]

31. And "those little brown people" American Voters MAY "catch a hint" in the interim

The Latinos need to be paying attention, the Clintons will throw US ALL (people who are NOT lily White) "under the bus" if it would glean them more political power. :thumbsdown:

[DemGa]

10. Just stating polling facts

But we must always insist on evil intent with a Clinton - as conditioned by the Obama campaign. What a shame Team Obama took this route for a "win."

[shomino]

15. Then answer a simple question for me.

I am simply asking the question why she thinks she is getting their vote. OK I'll stop beating around the bush and just say it. I think she is inferring that "white working class voters" are racist, which seems insulting to that constituency actually.

Is she saying that Obama's policies won't benefit "white working class voters" and this is why they are not voting for him? Is she saying that "white working class voters" are voting for her because they have a better idea of who will make a good President?

I'm just trying to figure out any way of getting around these statements NOT implying white working class voters are racist. Honestly I would like a reasonable explanation from Clinton supporters as to how these statements are supposed to make her a better candidate for the Presidency. What is it about her POLICIES that is drawing the "white working class vote"?

[leftofcool]

17. She is stating a fact

Polling precentages show she is getting the white working class vote. That does not mean they are racist, it just means she is getting that voting block which is the largest voting block of Dems

[shomino]

20. And she mentioned the race of those voters herself.

Can you imagine the uproar if Obama were to say "I'm getting the black vote."?

Just because polling data indicates something doesn't mean you need to restate it as being important, or make a statement that you are polling stronger among those who share your "race".

[maddiejoan]

21. I don't need to imagine it

He's done it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtwEfl4V3w4

[shomino]

26. He never once implied in that video

That his getting the black vote was a reason NOT to vote for Hillary Clinton. He even mentions how well-liked she is by the black community.

[maddiejoan]

27. She's not saying that

she's saying they haven't been.

[Eric Condon]

83. The point is that she conflated "white Americans" and "hardworking Americans"

into one seemingly mutually exclusive grouping. Even the staunchest Hillary supporter should be able to see how patently offensive that is on its face.

[ShortnFiery]

29. Golly! It's "The Fast Eddy Rendel (Gov-PA) Strategy." White supremacists UNITE!

:grr: :nuke:

[marshall]

37. It's an observation that she believes, that's it

The same as Rush Limbaugh might say his listening base is white middle class.

[bigtree]

38. she says he's losing support. That would imply he has work to do

It's not an original observation

[shomino]

50. So is she going to hinder him...

Or help him? After all he IS now the "presumptive" Democratic nominee.

[bigtree]

54. he's not the 'presumptive nominee until he attains the necessary amount of delegates to nominate

He and his supporters can confidently anticipate the outcome all they want. It still must be decided, either by votes or by the input of the SDs.

Until then, Clinton apparently intends to presume that the SDs will decide on factors other than the amount of pledged delegates, as her campaign has said for some time now. I personally don't think a significant majority will disregard the results of the primaries, but, who knows?

[shomino]

58. "Who knows"!?

C'mon, you're saying her new campaign slogan is "Who knows"? That's a strong reason to not work towards unification of the party?

[bigtree]

61. That's my observation, not hers

You're much too quick to condem an answer which may not be in line with your own thinking. I responded here because you seemed to want a discussion, not to fight the campaign on this thread.

READ where I talk about HER repeated assertions that there may be other factors more important to delegates other than the pledged delegates amassed. I don't think any significant majority will agree with her.

[shomino]

55. I would just like to say that...

It's a sad statement on how much work we have to do in this country if any voter makes their decision based solely on sex or race.

I want to say that I would vote for Hillary Clinton in a NY minute over McCain, but Obama is most probably going to be the nominee. I am extremely happy with that.

Why can't we begin to unify? Is it really "too early"? I really think the people have already "had their say", there are very few primaries left. Why won't Clinton start re-unifying the party now, what is she waiting for? How does her continuing her campaign benefit the party, or the country?

[bigtree]

60. I would like to flesh this out in a larger post, later

But there is a great deal of credibility in voters making an large part of their decision based on these factors since our Democratic candidates have such similar positions and intentions. The 'progress' is that voters have just as much credibility in reaching beyond the historic potential of these two with some confidence that their particular interest won't be ignored.

[casus belli]

74. Someone at Hillaryis44 was calling for a "white unite for Hillary"

Now, knee-jerk reaction to what is surely a disappointing loss is one thing. Openly encouraging racism is quite another. Whether Hillary intended for her comments to be construed as racism or not, clearly some of her supporters are interpreting it in that way and acting on latent racist tendencies.

There is nothing constructive in this for our party.

[bigtree]

77. you can't tell you're being had by that site?

really?

[casus belli]

80. Being had? No.

But there is nothing constructive about that discussion on any level, whether they are all legitimate supporters or not. I've seen quite a few posters with long histories here that are contributors to the site. I would hope that no progressive would be a part of something so heinous.

[bigtree]

84. you obliged them by spreading their contrived crap here on this progressive site

. . . and opening their premise for discussion.

With any due respect, you've been had.

[casus belli]

85. I respectfully disagree

Ignoring racism or pretending it doesn't exist has never been an effective way of dealing with it. If you are convinced that there are no actual Hillary supporters at that site and that the entire thing is a sham, then I don't think you're being entirely honest with yourself. One thing is certain, I don't see any formal objections to the money they are helping raise for Hillary's campaign. And that speaks volumes.

And now I'll bow out so we don't start a long convoluted sub-thread. I respect your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree.