My final word to HRC supporters because I am moving on to McCain

[joeprogressive]

Now that it is really over as far as the math goes, everything that is said here can be potentially used against Obama in the fall. It probably won't make much difference but every now and then some unfounded post ends up in the hands of the right wing talking heads.

Let's face the facts: HRC supporters on DU have been nasty and Obama supporters have been nasty. One side has not been nastier than the other. I used to think it was HRC supporters that were much worse but I realized that was my perception because I was projecting my anger I felt about HRC and her dirty tricks and betrayal to the Democratic party. Both sides of supporters are equal in blame.

The major difference lies with the candidates. Minor policy differences aside, Obama has run one of the cleanest campaigns ever. HRC has changed the rules at every opportunity and run one of the meanest and deceitful campaigns ever. She may be tarnishing her and Bill's reputation forever. However, if you want to go on policy alone, it is really simple, HRC voted for IWR. Iraq will go down as one of the greatest foreign policy disasters in history and she was complicit in that failure.

I know we are supposed to be mending fences now but what I have seen posted since Obama's romp last night disgusts me. Many are posting about how Obama is unelectable. That was your campaign's strategy yesterday so people would vote for HRC and maybe she could sway enough superdelegates to win the nomination. It was a long shot yesterday and it is an impossibility today. HRC may be going on but HRC supporters need to decide where they stand once it is officially over. If you aren't going to support Obama in the fall you mine as well leave now because you won't be conforming to DU rules.

Like HRC, the way you conduct yourself now will have an impact later. Don't go down with your ship when you have a perfectly good ship standing by to jump on to. As far as the questions about what do us Obama supporters have to do to win you over. The answer is absolutely nothing. If you are so childish that you would jeopardize the future of this country, the future of your children the future of the Supreme Court, then you are not someone that can be reasoned with. We owe you nothing, just as you would owe us nothing if the roles were reversed. You vote for the Democrat if you are a Democrat. It is that simple.

I have stated many times that if HRC won the nomination I would vote for her, support her candidacy financially and even volunteer for her. All that despite the hatred I feel for her now. Obama has done nothing for you to feel that kind of hatred toward him except beat your candidate. To some of you, I guess that is enough. Recent polls show that 50% more HRC supporters report they won't support the Democratic candidate if it is Obama compared to Obama supporters claiming they wouldn't cross over. That tells you how much more selfish and childish HRC supporters are. As far as the Obama supporters that stated they wouldn't cross over either, I feel the same about you.

Grow up people and do the right thing and spare me any threats that this post makes you want to vote for McCain even more. Those threats are old and meaningless. If you think by doing something that will harm your own self interests so you can get back at an anonymous poster on DU is smart then go for it, because you may be dumber than the current occupant in the whitehouse.

[joeprogressive]

1. I must be on everyone's ignore list. or The Daily Show is on n/t

[greguganus]

23. We ignore people without stars. lol. n/t

[invictus]

2. K & R

[shraby]

3. How's this? You're right!

[joeprogressive]

6. I know I am about to be flamed but I am beyond caring because it isn't

about any of us here it is about the future of our country and we all need to get over ourselves and move on. Thanks for your support on this.

[ZinZen]

4. Well said

but it is going to take some time for the reality to settle in and for them to grieve the loss of Hillary's chances for the nomination. As a former Deaniac, I understand how difficult it can be to accept the candidate that you think has a lesser chance of winning against McCain. I think most of Hillary's supporters will come around and some will not. That is their choice to make.

[joeprogressive]

7. And I feel for them and want them to be able to grieve.

We should not be rubbing this in their faces. However, stating the obvious like "it is over" is necessary so they will stop tearing down our candidate because they are really tearing down everyone's candidate.

[MindMatter]

9. Obama was not the first choice of most people

when the race started. These campaigns can really suck us into an emotional whirlpool. The stakes keep getting higher and higher in our minds. Anybody who is committed to a candidate is going to have a tough time at the end.

But in the case of all other candidates on both sides, they did not force their supporters to feel like Judas when the campaign reached the point of no return. They did the right thing, for their party, and ESPECIALLY for their supporters. I do feel sorry for those who have been committed to Clinton and who now realize intellectually that it is time to move on. She is not making it easy on you emotionally.

[joeprogressive]

10. Emotionally I am fine. I am just in disbelief regarding the stubbornness and hubris of this woman.

Now, people are questioning her sanity. Does she not see what everyone else does? Does she not listen to anyone except her closest confidantes? That sounds an awful lot like Bush.

[joeprogressive]

8. cool name, are you an enlightened red wine drinker?

[ZinZen]

11. Yes! Oh progressive one

Here in California surrounded by great big Zinfindels. :hi:

[joeprogressive]

12. Love the 2004 dry creek zins. Sonoma is heaven n/t

[TBF]

5. Nice post - K&R

[ZinZen]

14. Agree, nice post K&R

[swishyfeet]

13. K&R Well said! A little too rational

To get a lot of action, I'm afraid. This place is crazy today.

[jillan]

15. joe - I appreciate your post, but you've got to understand.

There are people who aren't ready to let go - yet.

There are people that need time to heal.

There are people that haven't supported Obama as a candidate that now may have to.

If you know anything about human nature, you know that the healing process takes time.


People come to a place like DU to work out their feelings so alot of what is posted here may be just that.

I have a suspicion that alot of people that now say they would rather vote for McCain than Obama will change their mind as they begin to heal and realize what is really at stake.

[joeprogressive]

18. I agree wholeheartedly. The thing I have the biggest problem with is

the continued attacks on Obama when it is over. That isn't doing any good and it is making it harder for Obama supporters to reach across the fence when the dog is still biting them. I pledge I will move on and leave HRC supporters alone so they can have time to grieve and let the defeat sink in. However, I will call out those that are just keeping the negativity alive to spite the person that beat HRC.

[Shae]

16. It is time to move on . . .

I think Obama did that to a great extent in his speech last night.
He seemed to address McCain more than Hillary.

I think most Clinton supporters will support Obama -- even those who now say they will not. Gas prices will rise, food prices will climb, the death toll in Iraq will go up, and McCain will begin to look more and more like Bush.

We need to forget petty differences and pull together for the sake of the country and its people.

[Catherina]

17. Rec'd Not all HRC supporters are being childish

It's a shame the very same loudmouths who were so vicious during the contest are still getting as much attention but in all fairness, many of her supporters have made thoughtful, conciliatory posts that were sincere. They deserve our respect. I'm tired of letting a few loudmouths color my opinion of her supporters.

[joeprogressive]

19. Agreed, I made a generalization that probably only pertains to a minority of her supporters.

I was trying to just call out those that are now stating they won't support Obama in the fall and continue the ridiculous unelectability arguments. They know who they are. To the fair minded HRC supporters, I apologize.

[Catherina]

20. I knew what you mean. I just came back from Slinkerwink's thread

where two in particular are acting like fools. I think Obama's safe enough now to generously use the ignore button so a few troublemakers won't keep the anger levels up. I'm accepting the olive branch Hillary's mature supporters are extending. Fuck the pot stirrers, they're not worth the attention.

[joeprogressive]

21. I stirred the pot too. It was a constant battle around here and you

felt like if you didn't respond to something nasty with more nastiness you were unilaterally disarming yourself. It will be easy to spot the disrupters after this is over and they will be purged from here. But for those that fought hard like me and said the occasional nasty thing like me but are willing to move on, I say sorry if I hurt your feelings and lets move forward together to beat grandpa john.

[Catherina]

24. That was my reasoning too

I don't know how successful I'll be with this new stage but now that Obama's pretty safe, the ignore button is going to be my best friend. Moving forward is already beginning. You can see it like new buds on the Cherry Trees in the Spring :toast: to you and :toast: to the majority of HRC supporters who didn't wallow in filth.

[joeprogressive]

26. I think the healing is beginning. There will be a few stragglers for awhile. n/t

[highplainsdem]

29. Catherina, I wasn't "wallowing in filth" when I objected to some Obama supporters

suggesting that Hillary Clinton might have Obama killed if she was on the ticket as VP. But you posted to disagree and suggest you felt the same way, trying to tell me she's somehow so untrustworthy she has to prove she isn't homicidal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5867411

The mods had deleted those messages I'd pointed out early this morning, and I finally posted a topic about it when I got tired of seeing the same inane Hillary-hating messages posted over and over.

I'm sure you'd never find similar allegations about Obama acceptable. I want you to understand that they're not acceptable when they're directed at Hillary, either.

I want to move on. But you're not going to have much luck building a coalition if you're telling Hillary's supporters that the candidate they supported is a potential murderer.

And I can hardly believe I've having to explain this here. Or that the sort of idiotic rightwing smear we get from Pat Robertson would ever get posted on DU by Democrats.

[bvar22]

22. The great majority of dU are rational, committed Democrats.

You are witnessing the childish rantings of a very small but LOUD minority salted with a few Republican disruptors.

Check the early DU straw polls.

Initially, Dennis Kucinich was strongly favored by a large majority on DU.

When DK dropped out, the sane and rational DU Democrats moved on to the next most progressive candidate...John Edwards.

When John Edwards dropped out, the sane and rational DU Democrats moved their support to the least conservative of the remaining candidates....Barack Obama.

In the early straw polls, Hillary and Obama were the least supported candidates on DU (by far).

This migration to remaining candidates indicates that the great majority of DU members are sane, issues oriented Democrats who will vote for the Democrat who best represents their political orientation.
Barack is the last candidate standing, and the great majority of DUers WILL vote for him in the GE.

Most sane DUers quit posting to GD P a long time ago when it was defaced by a handful of partisan fanatics. It is time to ignore them and move on to supporting our nominee. The Majority of DU members have already decided to do this.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Catherina]

25. What you said

:hi:

[BenDavid]

27. Has anyone besides myself seen how the Obama supporters

are suddenly playing nice to Clinton voters? This is after months of ugly rhetoric and accusations of racism. I guess you now realize that if Obama secures the nomination, he will need the backing of the Clinton voters. Well, you are wasting your time being civil at this late stage. It is too late. The damage has been done.When you accuse the Clinton backers of being racists, well that’s like saying we all use the “N” word when describing obama.Hey, I can tolerate a lot because being a Jew I have been called worse, but I feel for those people that felt as though they were right in supporting HRC and come into this forum and for the last several months they are called bigot, racist for speaking out against obama. With no ill well towards the man, they only stated their views, but to call someone a racist because they support someone else tells me a lot about many of you obama people. SHAME, SHAME,
and to all the HRC supporters that have felt the wrath of these folks, I say, over look them and if you decide to support obama good. If you decide to support McCain, good...If you decide to stay at home and not vote, good. It is your decision and I say stay with your convictions.

To you obama folks,Words once spoken can never be recalled but I assume you could give a care whether are not you called someone a racist and not even knew the person. This is what this has come down to. Anyone against obama is either a bigot or a racist....Well, call me a bigot and racist all you want too, I know who I am. The question is, do you know who you really are?

My regret is having the moderators of this forum tell me that by calling obama, obigot, was against the rules of this forum, but those same moderators allowed the worse vile names and lewd and crude remarks stand when written against HRC. I regret not being able to convince many that obama is a bigot and a racism. PERIOD!

[NanceGreggs]

30. Sometimes the witness simply hangs himself on the stand ...

EXHIBIT A: "This is after months of ugly rhetoric and accusations of racism. Well, you are wasting your time being civil at this late stage. It is too late. The damage has been done. When you accuse the Clinton backers of being racists, well that’s like saying we all use the “N” word when describing obama."

EXHIBIT B: "I regret not being able to convince many that obama is a bigot and a racism (sic or sick, your choice!). PERIOD!"

The prosecution rests.

[democracy1st]

32. What is Hillary Clinton doing,she toned down ?

Please vote for McCain if that makes you happy

[rodeodance]

33. Yes, I have

notices the playing nice posts. a few are sincere but many as they play nice in the next sentence smear Hillary. I just walk away from them.

[joeprogressive]

34. That's your problem, you are blind to the vile equally perpetrated by the HRC supporters

They demeaned the word sexism by invoking it at every opportunity. My point was it is over. It was a bitter fight and if you aren't willing to join forces it is time to leave DU. I don't know how people can take things so personally from something posted on the internet. It doesn't reflect reality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Yes you are correct...

and they don't want to face it


I hope they will soon

[intaglio]

31. Agreed, move on to attack McAnus

but as BenDavid shows there are certain people not willing to do that. People who act as if views are more important than the victory of their party.