“We Are Counting 11000 Absentee Ballots” How to Snatch Divisiveness from the Jaws of Unity

[McCamy Taylor]

Oh man. I was writing a nice journal about how Clinton should probably concede, and then Lake County Indiana happens. Now I have a new all purpose excuse. Whenever someone asks me a question I do not want to answer, I’ll just say I’m counting eleven thousand absentee ballots And if they ask me the same question more slowly in a louder voice, I will repeat my answer in a louder voice.

I. Am. Counting. Eleven. Thousand. Absentee. Ballots

Who knows what was going on in Lake County, Indiana? Maybe they use their fingers to count in that state for religious reasons. Maybe the GOP was conducting psych-ops warfare on Democrats. Maybe somebody decided that if the Clinton victory was delayed she would not be able to raise money off the win. Maybe Lake County Indiana was praying for a miracle in those eleven thousand ballots.

If you watched CNN, you were treated to the spectacle of the mayor of a major city acting like a kid caught with his hand in a cookie jar, then another mayor said “appearance of impropriety” and then the missing votes suddenly appeared (who would have guessed that “appearance of impropriety” were the magic words, someone needs to write that down for the next election) and we all lived happily ever after---

Except maybe for Lake County, Indiana which just caused the entire world to spend four hours with its eyes fixed to a map showing just how close Indiana is to Chicago. As in Wow. How come Obama could not carry a state that is so close to Chicago? Considering that most Americans could not locate Indiana on a map if asked to do so for money, the Obama camp did not need that televised geography lesson. Nor did they need TV news pundits getting noticeably concerned about possible shady election practices during the Democratic Primary.

This too shall pass, as they say. Clinton wisely delivered her victory speech in Indiana and went to bed. I did not bother to watch MSNBC tonight, so I am sure that I missed some embarrassing moments from the good old boys. CNN has better graphics, and Anderson Cooper is so cute. Donna Brazile is pretty cute, too, in a different way. I could see a Hillary/Donna ticket. Would scare the men of this country to death.

However, the ticket that I continue to dream of is the Obama/Clinton ticket. I know that people call it counter-intuitive, since Obama is younger. However, he is the one who is good at looking presidential. He inspires. He facilitates. He mediates. He unites. I can see the old work horse Clinton being perfectly happy rolling up her sleeves and doing all the paper pushing that Obama said he would just as soon leave to someone else. And I will let you in on a little secret. Don’t tell anyone. Is it just you and me? If Obama asked her to leave Bill at home, I am sure she would be delighted to do so. It probably gets to be a drag to have your husband around always telling you “Honey, I think you ought to try my suggestion” or “Sweetie, this is how I used to do it”.

Bill has his own life. He gives speeches. He raises money. He can go be president of the UN or something.

Carl Bernstein, the brains behind the Watergate investigation was on CNN tonight and he agreed that Clinton would take the job of VP. He seemed to think that she wanted the job. There is no glamor in it, but Clinton is not a glamorous kind of woman. I think she mostly wants a chance to get healthcare right and to do some other things that she could not do in the 1990s when America was more conservative and she had less experience and then Newt took over.

Any Democrat will beat McCain, but our two fine Democratic candidates together will attract the same voters who have stood in line—sometimes for hours---to vote in the primaries. And if all these people turn out this fall, McCain is toast, no matter what dirty tricks they pull.

I liked Obama’s speech tonight. I also like the long primary. Each candidate gets lots of free , mostly positive MSM attention. Not like the virtual assault they will have to endure in the GE. Even if one of them choses to concede (meaning Hillary) I would recommend that she keep it secret, and that she and Obama continue to wage a mock primary all the way through Puerto Rico, saying only positive things about themselves and negative things about McCain. The more Democrats participate in the primary---the more register and vote and get invested in a candidate who will be in the final ticket---the better the turnout will be this fall.

Please, just be civil. And upbeat. And for heaven’s sake, do not spend a lot of time counting and recounting eleven thousand absentee ballots. That kind of stuff is just plain silly. It is divisive which benefits no one except John McCain.

[saltpoint]

1. She won Indiana. But in all other respects, she got creamed tonight.

She's cancelled all pubilc appearances tomorrow, all morning media gigs.

She's lost.

She knows it.

Did you see her husband's face during her address tonight at the Murat?

He knows how to read a scoreboard.

[OzarkDem]

16. Dem party lost, too

Too bad Obama can't carry the GE. It will be sad to lose again in November. It will be a bloody, ugly GE race, too.

[tavalon]

17. We, the Democrats, are not going to lose in November

If we ran a fucking cucumber, come November, we would be addressing that cucumber as Mr. or Madame President. Get over your bad self.

[cui bono]

61. Let's run a ficus tree like Michael Moore did!

[Patriot Abroad]

19. Obama can win in November

Despite the smears which have been hurled his way recently.

And he can be more presidential than W.

And he comes across as an outsider and a force for change, which I don't get from Hillary.

The fact that it's McCain seals the deal - how scary would having McCain run the country be? Even the conservatives don't like him . . .

[reddconsole]

33. "...he comes across as an outsider and a force for change..."

So did Jimmy Carter, and he was effectively a lame duck from day one. We need someone tough who knows the ropes.

[oasis]

36. amen.

[catalinacat]

64. you are so right

Barack going to look like a naive idiot IF he wins the presidency. But I don't think we'll have to worry about that, he can't win it.

If Hillary is out, we'll have four more years of bush - that is very disheartening.

[reddconsole]

82. No

If Barack's the nominee, I'm voting for him. He's not Edwards, he's not Hillary, but he's not McCain/Bush/Cheney/Rove either, and that counts the most.

[Gore1FL]

111. You base this on tea leaves?

or sour grapes?

[Gore1FL]

110. Do you know why this happened, specifically?

He took on an energy right out of the box that killed sacred cows of his supporters. Sort of like Bill Clinton did withe Gays in the military.

Both of those are important issues, but neither should have chosen a steep incline as a first issue without getting some momentum on flat ground first.

It isn't the "outsider" that was the problem in either case, both were rookie mistakes.

I don't think it is possible to rule in or out such mistakes for whoever becomes president.

[WCGreen]

91. A pile of steaming shit would be more presidential than W.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Obama can so win the GE. He will do fine. And the Clintons will campaign for him

whether or not she is on the ticket. After Clyburn said that she wants him to lose, they have to campaign for him, just to prove him wrong, even if she really was an evil bitch. That will heal up the rift and undo anything anyone said.

McCain is pathetic. He has brain damage. He can't even talk. And unless he repudiates the war, it is like an albatross.

[marions ghost]

45. yes she will do that

for her own political future and to capitalize on and promote the apparent Dem surge. It's the right political thing to do and she will gain everything by being instrumental in it. She will do it.

I don't think Hill is an evil bitch, but I think she is a smart politician who made a very bad choice --ie. to take the low road in this campaign. It's sad to me that she took that road, more than likely as a result of her excessive political brutalization in the past at the hands of the Rethuglicans. She was so over-promoted by the media that I don't think she needed to go so negative to win. Yes she had to show 'toughness' but that tipped over into ruthlessness of a Rethuglican kind, ie. win at all costs. Obama came off as a more balanced individual by comparison, at least to a certain thinking Dem constituency, which certainly helped him in North Carolina and likely in Indiana as well.

[shadowknows69]

32. Instead of being negative toward our party all the time

Why don't you just get the fuck out please. Either join the team or sit in the stands and cheer.

[greguganus]

38. AMEN! n/t

[Damian the LHP]

56. Re: negativity

Thank god, somebody finally said it.

[kmla]

46. Grapes a little sour today?

[ColonelTom]

52. so, OzarkDem, just out of curiosity...

The OP proposed an Obama/Clinton ticket, or failing that, at least a strong alliance in the GE. Are you opposed to that, if indeed Obama is the nominee? Or do you think that Clinton can't help Obama if he's leading the ticket? (I'm genuinely asking, not trying to be snarky.)

[IsItJustMe]

76. LOL, you sure got a way to make a dem feel good.

[D23MIURG23]

93. Hillary as the experience candidate against McCain?

Have you actually thought about that?

[dogday]

59. that is not exactly true as she has made appearance today

and met with the SD this morning... Something was said to keep her going, I wonder what?

[saltpoint]

86. It was her ego talking.

Had to be the ego.

Hers appears to have a loud voice.

[JoFerret]

83. You did not read the post.

.

[saltpoint]

85. You might be surprised what I read.

[JoFerret]

87. I am sure I would. However

I am also sure you did not read the OP. You gave a knee jerk reaction. You may have scrolled down. But with two minutes to read the post and make your response is insufficient to do any kind of justice to a post of that depth and complexity. You merely rejected it out of the box.

Prejudicial knee jerking.

[saltpoint]

98. JoFerret, you might want to check out the national vibe currently

running heavily against Sen. Clinton.

It has absolutely nothing to do with DU.

It has to do with how badly she fucked up this primary.

She totally failed, and was outflanked demonstrably.

That would be a far more useful starting point for you in your long healing journey.

[JoFerret]

100. You might want to read posts before

giving knee jerk dismissive responses. Reading posts takes a little time...even with people of your indisputable acumen and superior intellectual abilities. It does mean a willingness to learn though and that might be hard.

As for your patronising condescension my friend....Quite unnecessary. Although you may find it is not very effective as a personal style to win friends and influence people.

[saltpoint]

102. Not in the market for either, thanks.

[JoFerret]

104. Commenting dismissively on posts without reading them

is not good practice.

[saltpoint]

105. Nor would I purport that it was.

Lying about sniper fire isn't a very good practice either.

Care to comment?

[JoFerret]

107. How do the two things connect?

Fortunately I have never been under sniper fire and I have never made such a claim.

I also do not make a habit to comment dismissively and derisively on posts I have not actually taken the time to read. (That seems intellectually bankrupt and politically shallow.)

How about you?

[saltpoint]

108. Sniper fire? No. Although my 7th grade math teacher, God rest her

Puritan Authoritarian Stalinist soul, would have happily pinned down half my class if her contract had the in-classroom guns clause.

I read the OP. Have read a solid percentage of the OP's stuff here since the days when John Edwards was still in the race.

Hope you can dig it.

[JoFerret]

109. OP writes interesting stuff very often

I am glad you took the time to read the OP after you responded.

It was long - but well researched and thoughtful.
OP's posts and usually worth the effort even when one disagrees with the conclusion or point of view.

Sorry to hear about your 7th grade math teacher. We all deserve better!

[tiptoe]

103. Arguably, exit poll analysis indicates Limbaugh's Operation Chaos 'won Indiana for Hillary':

Check out the data:
How Operation Chaos Caused Obama to Lose Indiana and Vote Shares Everywhere Else

[highplainsdem]

2. Amen.

Any Democrat will beat McCain, but our two fine Democratic candidates together will attract the same voters who have stood in line—sometimes for hours---to vote in the primaries. And if all these people turn out this fall, McCain is toast, no matter what dirty tricks they pull.

[susankh4]

80. It is a good point.

We cannot afford another close race with the GOP. That is what we had with Al Gore... and we saw how that turned out. He won, but didn't get to take office.

The Dems need a landslide in November. An Obama/Clinton ticket is the most likely route to one.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. Indiana has voted Red since I was a toddler.

So to suggest that Obama should have won it because of its proximity to Illinois is absurd. Granted, some lakeside counties were bound to go for Obama but c'mon... You are really reeeeeeeaching with this line of rhetoric.

In spite of that, he did really well, didn't he?

[truedelphi]

5. I agree with you on the redness being traditional for Indiana.

I was surprised to hear that there would be a Democratic primary in that state.

And when the news casters started making comaprisons to Wisconsin, I was cracking up.

Indiana is to Wisconsin as Dan Quayle is to Al Franken.

[riverdeep]

41. Indiana, especially the southern two-thirds of the state,

is like an extension of Kentucky, without the accent. I live nearby, and have traveled in and through there many times. Actually, once you get outside of the city limits of Chicago, it's a whole other world. The politics, the culture, the music, it all changes. Go south into farm country just out of the burbs, and it'll blow your mind. It's like that with a lot of cities. Liberal in and nearby, scary as hell in the surrounding regions.

[Oldtimeralso]

99. Anything South of I 80 for Indiana and Illinois. n/t

[casus belli]

12. Red for president yes....

But the Governorship and State Legislature has been often Democrat controlled over the last several decades.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. So then the Dem candidate has little effect over that, no?

They must like their local Dems but not the national ones.

IOW, they're Yellow Dogs, DINOs, Reagan Democrats, whatever you want to call them. But they're not Democrats, in the sense that most progressives understand that term.

So who gives a shit about them? They were going to vote repuke in the General, anyway.

[dsc]

18. but let Hillary supporters point that out about the likes of Kansas

North Dakota, Nebraska, Utah, and other states carried by Obama and we are evil.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

48. Not by me.

I know we probably won't win those states in the general. Obama's strategy was to get votes there in the primary. Whereas Clinton supporters insist that Obama can't win big blue states because the racist goobers in the red parts of them won't vote for him. Which is silly because those places never go Dem anyway.

[izzybeans]

63. The national party has been absent from Indiana for years.

Indiana voters like many other states require some interpersonal trust on top of their voter salad.

My mother has been campaigning for Obama in the Southern part of the state-the only blue part. The only reason a democrat ever loses in that district is because they never showed up. It's easier to cut through the media sound machine whenever they do.

[rpannier]

88. The only blue part??? Of Indiana???

Lake County is the ONLY Democratic County in Indiana.
Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, Carter and Kerry all won Lake County

[izzybeans]

101. The only blue part of southern Indiana, deep south. Sorry for not being clear.

From their perspective Bloomington is not southern.

[truedelphi]

4. ALl I have ever known about it is that many counties in California take about three DAYS to

Count their absentee ballots.

And San Francisco CA has this deal where they count about 11,000 ballots, and then if they notice one ballot was folded or spindled, they start all over again. Ballot one, ballot two, ballot three...

CNN is just trying to set it up so that we all go, "The counting should be an instantaneous process."

No.It.Shouldn't.

It should be an accurate process.

I mean what is important, democratic processes, or getting a full eight hours sleep??

[SoCalDem]

7. A whole MONTH after CA voted there were SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND votes

that were still listed as "uncertified"... a TON of them were from my county, so I checked daily :eyes:

[truedelphi]

9. I hear ya. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. Took a full week to count the Democratic primary results in Arizona.

And I'm totally okay with it.

In the end, Sen. Clinton won by 7.5%. The night of the election she was winning by 12%.

I say, count every damn vote. That's why we vote, so it will be counted. Pretty simple.

[woolldog]

11. And don't get me started on New Mexico!

They take forever every single election.

[Coexist]

34. New Mexico and Missouri - I thoght that would never end.

[SlicerDicer-]

50. hey be nice to my state please...

they cant help it if morons run the polling places.. I think IQ of 130+ should be required to run the polls

[Window]

13. CNN and that Hillary supporter mayor pissed me off royally.

They just had to suggest that there had to be some impropriety because "all the other counties votes were in."

[girl gone mad]

23. Did you notice how..

as soon as CNN called it for Hillary, the good Mayor changed his tune to 'everything's just dandy in Indiana'?

[McCamy Taylor]

28. I got the feeling that there is some history we don't know about in the local

government. And I do not think that I want to know. Politics in Texas is dirty enough.

[catalinacat]

66. here's the history

As the county is right next to Chicago, ole Mayor Daley was notorious for holding counties back in a election until the last minute, when it was not going his way, and then changing the votes at the last minute so their candidate could win.

I hoped we would never have another Florida or Chicago fiasco again. Should have known with the desperation of the obama people. They did not win - but they got it up to 1 point difference at the last minute instead of 4. Makes a better case to the superdelegates, doesn't it?

[IsItJustMe]

78. Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a tin foil post here.

[Hutzpa]

97. What are you, some kind of alarm bell.....jeez n/t

[Window]

37. I certainly did. They are so obvious.

[IsItJustMe]

77. Me too. That damn mayor from Hammond was starting conspiracy theories and giving the mayor from

Gary hell, for no damn reason at all. I would never have that mayor in a position of authority. He was unstable and it showed.

[bhikkhu]

6. Good sense and a good post...

One of us has her eye squarely on the ball, and I am male and just a bit too pleased to focus well this evening.

It is a good evening and I agree with the no-hurry-to-concede. Someone said it would be a bit embarrassing if Hillary conceded and then won KY and WV anyway...Hillary ran an excellent campaign in IN and NC, and I for one would welcome its continuation through the next week or two, or a drawn out concession that might end on a high note after a couple of nice wins.

[newmajority]

8. If Hillary won Indiana, so be it.

But why, in God's name would you NOT want them to count the ballots?? :wtf:

[McCamy Taylor]

14. You must not have seen the story. I will elaborate. All the little towns in the county sent in their

votes right at 730 cst. According to the mayors of all the litte towns plus Hammond which add up to about 150k of the 250k population of this county their votes were close but in each little town Clinton won by about a 1000 or so. These are mostly rural communities.

Even though they all had their votes in promptly at 730 pm, election central in this county would not release any results to the press for 4 hours. Now, since this county contained Gary, whose mayor supported Obama and had sworn that he would make the County go for Obama, and since Gary has about 100k people, this meant that the press could not call the race for 4 extra hours. Basically everything was in limbo, because the county election board would not release the votes for the majority of the county that had sent their vote in hours earlier.

Then at 11 pm cst, the county releases the votes for Gary, which is like 65-70% for Obama. This is only 25% of the county vote, so it makes it look like when the rest of the vote comes in, Obama is going to win Indiana easily. However, the people at CNN notice that the only vote totals they were sent were from Gary. They pull up a google map and show that everything else is rural and suburban. Meanwhile more mayors from other towns are swearing that they sent their totals--which favor Clinton---in hours ago and they do not know why it is taking so long for the county to report those totals. From 7 to 11 nothing. Then at 11 only the Gary results. Around 1130 we get some more Gary results, still pretty much in Obama's favor.

The CNN guys call the Mayor of Gary who sounds like he is down at the county election board counting absentee ballots. They keep asking why the county refused to send out the partial results that they had from earlier in the evening from towns that had already tabulated their results and he kept repeating in an increasingly adamant voice that he had to count 11000 absentee ballots from Gary. As if this would have kept someone from reading off numbers from Hammond and other places whose totals were already done to the press. After a while, the CNN guys gave up.

Around midnight they got a conference call going with the mayor of Hammond and the mayor of Gary and the mayor of Hammond persuaded the county to release all but 2% of the county's results---the 2% are probably the absentee ballots they are counting. At that point the percentage for the county went down to O 55 C 45---by doubling the number of votes. So, that suggests that they called out a clump of votes that heavily favored Obama at 11 and withheld a clump of votes that did not heavily favor Obama until they were pressured to release them an hour later. Since the outlying towns in the county reported even votes or votes slightly favoring Clinton at around 730pm, the implication is that the county did not want to report those votes until it was able to report the Gary votes so it sat on them for 4 hours.

Lord only knows why. All they ended up doing was making everyone suspicious. Maybe it was the GOP. The mayor of Gary said that there were Republicans and Democrats counting the vote. This could be some kind of CREEPy dirty trick. It was just a really stupid thing for someone to do on a night that was otherwise perfect.

[IsItJustMe]

79. It was not suspicious to me. It seemed to me that the mayor from Hammond and CNN were pissed

because they were not recieving their instant gratification. If you noticed, there was another county in Indiana that never did post their results, even after Lake county was counted. Let us go on a conspiracy hunt there.

It was all theater in my mind.

[truedelphi]

90. Hard to believe that such total perfection could exist inside a state

Where 1.45 million votes were purged before the Election Day even began.

Something tells me Indiana is the new Ohio.

[Usrename]

20. Hillary would make an excellent Darth Cheney.

Seriously, she would be an excellent VP. There is only one huge problem. She could not govern if anything happened to Obama.

[livingmadness]

21. Nice post. Cheers. n/t

[datopbanana]

22. "As in Wow. How come Obama could not carry a state that is so close to Chicago?" Really?

That's the argument you want to go with?

Sigh...........

[McCamy Taylor]

24. My point is that when people do dumb stuff it backfires. It wasn't anything to do with a loss or win

Clinton did not perform as well as she needed to in Indiana. The race is over. But I would like to see Dems come out to vote in Oregon and West Virginia because these are battleground states we can pick up or lose and if there is a primary we will win them due to the voters feeling invested in the race. Plus, they need to seat Mi and Fl before a winner is crowned to keep those states in play this fall. If SDs start going for Obama, which I think they will, the DNC can graciously decide to seat 1/2 delegates from Mi and Fl with the uncommitteds from Mi going to Obama without changing his win. As long as they do it before the convention, this will allow those states to feel that they were included and the rift will be mended in time for the fall election.

[datopbanana]

25. What backfired?

[McCamy Taylor]

26. The effort to divide and conquer the Dems. All they had to do was communicate

and the problem was solved. I think a lot of problems can be solved when people talk to each other.

[GrimReefa]

29. Stop with the "Dream Ticket" non-sense

It's not going to happen, so discussing it is a waste of time.

Obama/Kaine is where I would lay my money right now. Obama/McCaskill is a possibility, as well.

[RTBerry]

31. The unity ticket may well be her fall-back position.

If so, fighting on to the convention makes for a great story. Just imagine the headlines: Dream Ticket! Democratic Titans Unite!

[leftrightwingnut]

47. Why? Because it is all about message? Dream ticket supporters don't know anything about politics?

Puh-leeze! The VP slot is *not* the "co-President" slot.

True, the "message" doesn't fit Clinton right now -- she's running *against* Obama. She can change it! I believe that she has changed her message or, at least, shifted her message to suit political expediency. She can do it one more time. Obama's message need not change. He has left the door open to Clinton. And it would work -- but only if Clinton embraces his message. (She called herself the "change" candidate once, didn't she?)

Clinton has received nearly half the votes and nearly half the delegates. Clinton tends to win in rural areas where Republicans tend to win. A politically savvy person would say perhaps Obama needs to figure out how to accommodate Clinton supporters in the general election. How to do that? Hmmm. Any ideas? Anyone? Anyone?

That said, Obama could take the calculated risk and pick a virtual unknown (to the average person) for V.P. He can probably squeak it out as long as he gets the full support of Clinton. Possible, as long as Clinton doesn't go nuclear and run with McCain. It would be a highly principled decision for Obama to go this way, and one could only respect it. Certainly, the more difficult path.

On the other hand, I could easily respect his decision to compromise and take on Clinton as the V.P. Compromise means not getting it all your way. I remember learning in grade school that compromise is fundamental to good decision-making. If both parties find the agreement acceptable but neither one is completely happy, then it is probably a good agreement and decision.

How does that song go? "You can't always get what you want..."

[Number23]

30. McCamy...

As in Wow. How come Obama could not carry a state that is so close to Chicago?

Do you honestly believe that this question has any merit or makes any sense whatsoever? What does proximity have to do with what happened on Tuesday?

And I read your earlier piece on Keith Olberman turning into Bill O'Reilly and I wanted to just say that you mentioned that a journalist's greatest cause was to be a voice for the voiceless. Actually, I would think that would be the greatest cause of a politician or an activist of some sort. A journalist's greatest cause is to report the unbiased truth even if it is at great personal risk. Thanks for your posts.

[susankh4]

35. The Obama/Clinton ticket is looking more and more likely....

if you ask me.

And she is acting tougher and tougher to counteract the "soft on terror" image that the GOP will foist on him.

No worries... Rambo can handle that terror stuff. With Wes Clark as her #1 advisor. The script is being written before our eyes...

[Bucky]

39. Count every vote. Every vote counts.

[IndyOp]

40. Early voters - from April 7 thru May 5 - are "absentee" voters even if they vote in person

If you go vote early at your County Clerk's Office then your vote is called an "absentee in person" vote. If you vote by mail then your vote is "absentee by mail".

I hate the language "absentee in person" because it confuses people and people don't want to vote early in Indiana because there are rumors that the votes of people who do vote early won't be counted. All votes should be counted. Period.

[EffieBlack]

42. I was disgusted by this spectacle

of Wolf Blitzer, John King and the Hammond mayor badgering the Gary mayor, even accusing him of criminal activity, because the county was taking what THEY thoght was too long to count the votes.

These inquisitor-prosecutors weren't the least concerned about the fairness of the process or ensuring that every vote was properly counted - they were just pissed because the results were not being reported on their timetable enabling them to call the race in prime time.

It was a sickening display of media hubris and abuse.

[catalinacat]

62. Pure BS by you

the sickening display was by the Mayor of Gary, who for 4 hours repeatedly said - we're counting the absentee ballots. BS... and then when CNN got suspicious, they released only gary votes which heavily favored Obama. Of course you think CNN was the dispecable one, because the mayor was for Obama. You'd felt different if the mayor of Gary was for Clinton, wouldn't you? huh??

[EffieBlack]

75. How old are you? "huh?"

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[rpannier]

92. A little info

Mayor Thomas McDermott the Democratic Mayor of Hammond was formerly a republikkan. His father had been a member of the republikkan party.
He changed parties to run against the republican mayor of Hammond (who, as I recall, Dedelow had been a Democrat and changed parties to run for mayor)

Hammond is a very Democratic city -- not necessarily progressive, but very, very pro-union.

Lake County went for Carter in 80, Mondale in 84, Dukakis 88, Clinton both times, Gore and Kerry.

[fritz1]

43. Sadly the race is already lost ...

It was a stretch to believe America will vote for Obama in the general election, all the wonderful thoughts aside. I think that when people get into the voting booth they will not going to vote what they are saying they will vote. Fasten your seat belts for record exit poll errors this year...
None of the candidates are that great. McCain is vile, Hillary was marginally electable and Obama will end up being very divisive in the end. It is very likely that a large contingent of Hillary supporters WILL NOT vote for Obama and without them he has no chance.

[Missouri Blue]

81. I beg to differ.

McCain is going to say dumb and contradictory things one after another. He has betrayed his reputation as a maverick, which was his only selling point in a campaign where "change" is the theme. In moving toward the center of his party, meaning the right wing, who still aren't enthusiastic.

Dubya could get away with gaffes because they could be dismissed as innocent mistakes by somebody who was generally a very good person (according to the Republican). When John McCain makes a gaffe, as he has, it's going to look more like Alzheimer's. Worse far him, after years of it, Independents are tired of stupid. They aren't going to be willing to grin and bear it when a candidate says idiotic things anymore. Meanwhile, as shown, his speeches are going put supporters so completely asleep, that they might not even get out of bed on election day.

Finally, McCain won by default. He was the last guy left standing after running a horrible primary campaign, only good when compared to the others of his party. He is a weak candidate. Meanwhile, both Obama and Clinton are very strong candidates, at least neither of them dropped out early due to weakness, as was the case with all the Republican candidates.

Don't you worry. I bet you Obama is going to tear McCain apart. The Republican decline will continue.

But we can't be complacent. It's important that we bury the GOP so completely that no rescue is possible.

[tomp]

44. you're dangerous.

"clinton/brazille" and "hillary just wants to get health care right" the "geography lesson"?

oh, and after this you want "civil"?

this is pseudo-graciousness toward obama. it would be much more gracious of you to just shutup.

[Shoelace]

49. how about you try to be a bit more "gracious"

because the story de jour is about how to win in November. Obama NEEDS Clinton's base, seniors, Hispanics, working whites who would vote Republican without her. Not to mention single mothers of all races who did ID with her.

It's time to put all this bickering behind us. I predict that we will see the "olive Branch" being extended on both sides now and that the super delegates will want them both on the same ticket.

Telling somebody to just "shut up" is neither gracious nor is it civil.

Be the change you want to see in this world and follow the graciousness that Obama has displayed in his demeanor. If you do indeed support this man, then try to be his ambassador of unity for our party. We will need it come November or the Neocons will run us down like a freight train.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable!

[catalinacat]

67. they can't

I've never seen one of 'em yet being reasonable. To them HILLARY, is the arch enemy, not McCain, it's unbelievable the hate they project for her, they are even worse then the repugs now attacking Hillary. That's why they are going to lose the general with barack. So barack wants to unify?? Not evidenced by his supporters' attitudes for months on these boards that support barack.

That's what has turned me off of barack, now even in the general. He's a fraud, I can't vote for someone like that. I never voted for bush either, but I voted for Gore and Kerry because I admired them. I have no admiration for barack.

[cui bono]

74. Then you ahven't seen enough or heard enough of him.

Don't judge a person by those who support him. This is the internet after all, you know people say things on message boards they would never say face to face. If you are allowing this to affect the opinion you form of a real person then perhaps you shouldn't frequent internet message boards or read any comments on blogs/stories.

[tomp]

94. who's this "they" you refer to...obama supporters?

not one...nice try...but i am a mccamy taylor opponent.

[tomp]

68. there are certain people on this website that don't deserve....

...to be treated with kid gloves. mccamy taylor is one of them, with her sycophantic long-winded posts and her insidious PRETENSE to graciousness and civility. i find her posts offensive. i call 'em like i see 'em. i think she should shut up, if for no other reason, than to atone for her of just being so wrong AND so long-winded.

[catalinacat]

69. So typical of a barack worshipper

Telling anyone that does not worship their idol, "shud-up"!}(

[bvar22]

84. Soooo, you come here often?

You seem so familiar.
Maybe we knew each other in a past life?

:rofl:

[tomp]

95. not an obama supporter.

please don't tar obama supporters by linking me with them. i'm an independent troublemaker. but it's really interesting to note that my post says nothing about clinton, yet everyone assumes that i'm attacking clinton because i think mccamy taylor's posts are complete bullshit. i don't judge clinton by mccamy taylor.

[frickaline]

51. I think you left out the fact that Hillary Clinton was born in Illinois

interesting read tho, ty for the post

[McCamy Taylor]

57. Hillary is from everywhere...

[frickaline]

58. no, she's from Illinois.

:banghead:

[McCamy Taylor]

89. Sure she is. And she is from Texas and Caifornia and Ohio and Mass. and...

what other states did she win?

Obama may be Jesus but Hillary is a Goddess! Just stick the Holy Ghost on the ticket and we have a Trinity.

[Barb in Atl]

53. Big ups for this...

...I also like the long primary. Each candidate gets lots of free , mostly positive MSM attention. Not like the virtual assault they will have to endure in the GE. Even if one of them chooses to concede (meaning Hillary) I would recommend that she keep it secret, and that she and Obama continue to wage a mock primary all the way through Puerto Rico, saying only positive things about themselves and negative things about McCain. The more Democrats participate in the primary---the more register and vote and get invested in a candidate who will be in the final ticket---the better the turnout will be this fall.

But I disagree with this last part:

And for heaven’s sake, do not spend a lot of time counting and recounting eleven thousand absentee ballots. That kind of stuff is just plain silly. It is divisive which benefits no one except John McCain.

Every vote must be counted, regardless of the eventual victor. Isn't some of Lake County the town of Hammond which is a strong Hillary area? Preferences aside, I have a real beef with not counting all the votes. And those that vote by absentee shouldn't be ignored.

Nice victory speech by Hillary as well. If they follow your plan - continue the primary but rip McCain a new one each chance they get - November 2008 will assuredly be won by the Dems.

[1trackmindGOP]

54. HRC as VP discredits Obama's message..FACT!

I do not think he could offer her the VP spot...she has said lobbyist and special interest have an important voice, the Clinton's have a huge ties with special interests and lobbyist groups. Most of the Obama supporters believe these groups are the root of the problems in our country and if he brings her in as VP it would discredit his campaign and make him stick out as a hypocrite and liar about fighting these groups for the common good of America. We have to choose a VP that has the same philosophy.

[hfojvt]

55. All the way to Puerto Rico? What about the SDs? They get to decide!

The South Dakotans, that is.

I guess Puerto Rico moved their contest up to June 1st, making Montana and South Dakota the final contests, except for the battles in the credentials committee and on the floor in Denver.

[catalinacat]

72. And

Hillary is winning Puerto Rico big time, because the mainstream media there released the video of Larry Sinclair and he had a live interview there in the city which was broadcasted. How many of you know of that little fact, huh? The obama loving media has managed to keep that story crushed so far, but it will be different when barack matches up with the republicans and doesn't have HIllary to blame for it. It's all Hillary's fault...bah wah wah wah. The ABC debate....bah wah wah, the Wright story...bah wah wah.

[cui bono]

60. Wow! So counting votes is divisive????

Um, smearing someone in the hopes that you will ruin his electability is divisive.

Practically endorsing the Republican candidate while saying all your Dem rival has is a speech is divisive.

I could go on and on but you know very well what else I would list.


What does counting every vote have to do with divisiveness???

You are way off the mark.

[catalinacat]

70. what

are you talking about? His post inferred nothing of the sort, that counting votes was divisive.
The manner of the way Lake County's votes were released is very suspicious and is the subject of his thread! Get a grip, open your mind, and read.

[cui bono]

73. I disagree with your interpretation of the OP.

[FlyingSquirrel]

65. Good post, with one caveat

I'm from Washington state - we have a female Governor and two female US Senators. That could not have happened without men like me voting for them. So I think it's a bit stereotypical to say that a female Pres and VP would "scare the men of this country". But I know what you were saying, there are still a lot of neanderthals out there.

[catalinacat]

71. Your awesome

One of the few REAL men that can support a woman in a powerful position politically is a real man indeed and congratulations to Washington!

[Hutzpa]

96. Payback is a bitch

lol!!

:rofl:

I was watching CNN and saw Wolf et al getting pissed at their own game
being played at them....

[mystieus]

106. FINAL INDIANA TALLY — As per Indiana Sec. of State is:

Hillary Clinton: 637,814 / 50.4%

Barack Obama: 626,642 / 49.6%

Diff. = 11,152 votes (less than 1 %)