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Obama Tea Party Memos: How KO. Fed Us Oppo About Clinton’s Foreign Policy Experience

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:31 AM
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Obama Tea Party Memos: How KO. Fed Us Oppo About Clinton’s Foreign Policy Experience
I. In Context: What Came Before
In the ABC debate in Philadelphia, Sen. Obama said something that was untrue. After Hillary was questioned about Bosnia and Sniper fire, this exchange took place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us/politics/16text-debate.html?pagewanted=9&_r=1

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Obama, your campaign has sent out a cascade of e-mails, just about every day, questioning Senator Clinton's credibility. And you yourself have said she hasn't been fully truthful about what she would do as president.
Do you believe that Senator Clinton has been fully truthful about her past?
SENATOR OBAMA: Well, look, I think that Senator Clinton has a strong record to run on. She wouldn't be here if she didn't. And you know, I haven't commented on the issue of Bosnia. You know, I --
MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Your campaign has.
SENATOR OBAMA: Of course, but --
SENATOR CLINTON: (Laughs.)
SENATOR OBAMA: Because we're asked about it.


The truth is that the Obama campaign did not learn its lesson with the "Race Memo"---a document it issued to the press in early January, 2008. Or rather, it learned a lesson other than the one that it pretended to learn.

It learned that dirty tricksters get ahead. And if you issue memos full of lies, overworked journalists will go with whatever cock and bull story you feed them.

The “Race Memo” contained three significant lies about things which Clinton, her husband and Mark Penn had said. It was released to the press in mid January, and it triggered a MSM eruption of misinformation that directly contributed to the rift within the Democratic Party along racial lines.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/203

Above is the journal in which I show the way that MSM stories parroting the lies put forward by the Obama camp cluster around the date of the "Race Memo" release. Here are polling numbers which show that Clinton had higher support within the nation’s African-American community than Obama in mid-January (a few days after the Race Memo was released)

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/obama_clinton_among_africaname.php

Within a month, this had turned around and Obama had the lead among African-American voters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022701030.html

While association does not prove causality, the human mind is conditioned to believe that if something appears to work once, it is worth trying again. So, with the “Race Memo” an apparent success, the Obama camp decided to address another Clinton strength, her superior foreign experience. They did this with a series of memos which again contained lies, this time with one big hook---Clinton herself made one error about one insubstantial detail which the Obama camp could exploit to portray her as a liar.

Since Obama began the attack on Clinton’s foreign policy experience by claiming that his own residence in Indonesia between the ages of 6 and 10 were more important than her years as First Lady---in which all she supposedly did was drink “tea” with foreign officials---I have decided to call these the “Obama Tea Party Memos”.

II. You Will Know Him By His Acts

So what? Every politician tries to define or redefine his opponent’s character. “Forget about it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.” At DU, people suggest that Obama give up throwing the kitchen sink at Clinton and try hurling the whole bathtub. No one here cares if he resorted to dirty oppo. The reasoning goes that no matter what he may have done, she must have done something worse.

That is how rationalization works.

The only problem is that DU is a tiny little community. Most Democrats who are voting for Barack Obama think that they are selecting a candidate who disavows the politics of personal destruction and distractions. He is supposed to represent a new kind of government. No more dirty tricks. No more politics as usual. That is why it was so unforgivable when Rev. Wright called him a politician . The people at DU suggesting that he throw the bathtub know that he is a politician. But they will be damned if anyone is allowed to call him one. No one may speak the truth in American politics. Except Hillary. If she gets one little word wrong, then everything she says is a god damned lie.

I don’t have any patience for people who say one thing and do another. As when Obama said that his campaign has not been propelling the narrative that Clinton is a liar, and yet I can find memos on the internet that are clearly from the Obama campaign in which they attempt to spread that story---and they tell lies in order to do it. That is what the press did to Al Gore. For Obama to stand up before a national audience and claim that his campaign has not attempted to do this is hypocritical. It is just like claiming that he takes no lobby money when he takes lobby money---as long as it is routed through a state capital first. AT&T needs to buy some influence with Obama? No problem. Send the cash through Sacramento. Hypocrisy is the lowest, because it makes it impossible for the truly honest politician—like Dennis Kucinich—to survive. There is too much competition from the phony honest guy with all the corporate cash. At least Clinton does not pretend to be Dennis.

III. The “Obama Tea Party Memos”

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obama_advisor_greg_craig.html

Sweet: Obama advisor Greg Craig rips Clinton foreign police experience. Complete memo.
from the Obama campaign...
To: Interested Parties
From: Greg Craig, former director, Policy Planning Office, U.S. State Department
RE: Senator Clinton’s claim to be experienced in foreign policy: Just words?
DA: March 11, 2008

When your entire campaign is based upon a claim of experience, it is important that you have evidence to support that claim. Hillary Clinton’s argument that she has passed “the Commander- in-Chief test” is simply not supported by her record.
There is no doubt that Hillary Clinton played an important domestic policy role when she was First Lady. It is well known, for example, that she led the failed effort to pass universal health insurance. There is no reason to believe, however, that she was a key player in foreign policy at any time during the Clinton Administration. She did not sit in on National Security Council meetings. She did not have a security clearance. She did not attend meetings in the Situation Room. She did not manage any part of the national security bureaucracy, nor did she have her own national security staff. She did not do any heavy-lifting with foreign governments, whether they were friendly or not. She never managed a foreign policy crisis, and there is no evidence to suggest that she participated in the decision-making that occurred in connection with any such crisis. As far as the record shows, Senator Clinton never answered the phone either to make a decision on any pressing national security issue – not at 3 AM or at any other time of day.
When asked to describe her experience, Senator Clinton has cited a handful of international incidents where she says she played a central role. But any fair-minded and objective judge of these claims – i.e., by someone not affiliated with the Clinton campaign – would conclude that Senator Clinton’s claims of foreign policy experience are exaggerated.
Northern Ireland:
Senator Clinton has said, “I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland.” It is a gross overstatement of the facts for her to claim even partial credit for bringing peace to Northern Ireland. She did travel to Northern Ireland, it is true. First Ladies often travel to places that are a focus of U.S. foreign policy. But at no time did she play any role in the critical negotiations that ultimately produced the peace. As the Associated Press recently reported, “She was not directly involved in negotiating the Good Friday peace accord.” With regard to her main claim that she helped bring women together, she did participate in a meeting with women, but, according to those who know best, she did not play a pivotal role. The person in charge of the negotiations, former Senator George Mitchell, said that “ was one of many people who participated in encouraging women to get involved, not the only one.”
News of Senator Clinton’s claims has raised eyebrows across the ocean. Her reference to an important meeting at the Belfast town hall was debunked. Her only appearance at the Belfast City Hall was to see Christmas lights turned on. She also attended a 50-minute meeting which, according to the Belfast Daily Telegraph’s report at the time, “ a little bit stilted, a little prepared at times." Brian Feeney, an Irish author and former politician, sums it up: “The road to peace was carefully documented, and she wasn’t on it.”
Bosnia:
Senator Clinton has pointed to a March 1996 trip to Bosnia as proof that her foreign travel involved a life-risking mission into a war zone. She has described dodging sniper fire. While she did travel to Bosnia in March 1996, the visit was not a high-stakes mission to a war zone. On March 26, 1996, the New York Times reported that “Hillary Rodham Clinton charmed American troops at a U.S.O. show here, but it didn’t hurt that the singer Sheryl Crow and the comedian Sinbad were also on the stage.”
Kosovo:
Senator Clinton has said, “I negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo.” It is true that, as First Lady, she traveled to Macedonia and visited a Kosovar refugee camp. It is also true that she met with government officials while she was there. First Ladies frequently meet with government officials. Her claim to have “negotiated open borders to let fleeing refugees into safety from Kosovo,” however, is not true. Her trip to Macedonia took place on May 14, 1999. The borders were opened the day before, on May 13, 1999.
The negotiations that led to the opening of the borders were accomplished by the people who ordinarily conduct negotiations with foreign governments – U.S. diplomats. President Clinton’s top envoy to the Balkans, former Ambassador Robert Gelbard, said, “I cannot recall any involvement by Senator Clinton in this issue.” Ivo Daalder worked on the Clinton Administration’s National Security Council and wrote a definitive history of the Kosovo conflict. He recalls that “she had absolutely no role in the dirty work of negotiations.”
Rwanda:
Last year, former President Clinton asserted that his wife pressed him to intervene with U.S. troops to stop the Rwandan genocide. When asked about this assertion, Hillary Clinton said it was true. There is no evidence, however, to suggest that this ever happened. Even those individuals who were advocating a much more robust U.S. effort to stop the genocide did not argue for the use of U.S. troops. No one recalls hearing that Hillary Clinton had any interest in this course of action. Based on a fair and thorough review of National Security Council deliberations during those tragic months, there is no evidence to suggest that U.S. military intervention was ever discussed. Prudence Bushnell, the Assistant Secretary of State with responsibility for Africa, has recalled that there was no consideration of U.S. military intervention.
At no time prior to her campaign for the presidency did Senator Clinton ever make the claim that she supported intervening militarily to stop the Rwandan genocide. It is noteworthy that she failed to mention this anecdote – urging President Clinton to intervene militarily in Rwanda – in her memoirs. President Clinton makes no mention of such a conversation with his wife in his memoirs. And Madeline Albright, who was Ambassador to the United Nations at the time, makes no mention of any such event in her memoirs.
Hillary Clinton did visit Rwanda in March 1998 and, during that visit, her husband apologized for America’s failure to do more to prevent the genocide.
China
Senator Clinton also points to a speech that she delivered in Beijing in 1995 as proof of her ability to answer a 3 AM crisis phone call. It is strange that Senator Clinton would base her own foreign policy experience on a speech that she gave over a decade ago, since she so frequently belittles Barack Obama’s speeches opposing the Iraq War six years ago. Let there be no doubt: she gave a good speech in Beijing, and she stood up for women’s rights. But Senator Obama’s opposition to the War in Iraq in 2002 is relevant to the question of whether he, as Commander-in-Chief, will make wise judgments about the use of military force. Senator Clinton’s speech in Beijing is not.
Senator Obama’s speech opposing the war in Iraq shows independence and courage as well as good judgment. In the speech that Senator Clinton says does not qualify him to be Commander in Chief, Obama criticized what he called “a rash war . . . a war based not on reason, but on passion, not on principle, but on politics.” In that speech, he said prophetically: “ven a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.” He predicted that a U.S. invasion of Iraq would “fan the flames of the Middle East,” and “strengthen the recruitment arm of al Qaeda.” He urged the United States first to “finish the fight with Bin Laden and al Qaeda.”
If the U.S. government had followed Barack Obama’s advice in 2002, we would have avoided one of the greatest foreign policy catastrophes in our nation’s history. Some of the most “experienced” men in national security affairs – Vice President Cheney and Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and others – led this nation into that catastrophe. That lesson should teach us something about the value of judgment over experience. Longevity in Washington, D.C. does not guarantee either wisdom of judgment.
Conclusion:
The Clinton campaign’s argument is nothing more than mere assertion, dramatized in a scary television commercial with a telephone ringing in the middle of the night. There is no support for or substance in the claim that Senator Clinton has passed “the Commander-in-Chief test.” That claim – as the TV ad – consists of nothing more than making the assertion, repeating it frequently to the voters and hoping that they will believe it.
On the most critical foreign policy judgment of our generation – the War in Iraq – Senator Clinton voted in support of a resolution entitled “The Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of U.S. Military Force Against Iraq.” As she cast that vote, she said: “This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make -- any vote that may lead to war should be hard -- but I cast it with conviction.” In this campaign, Senator Clinton has argued – remarkably – that she wasn’t actually voting for war, she was voting for diplomacy. That claim is no more credible than her other claims of foreign policy experience. The real tragedy is that we are still living with the terrible consequences of her misjudgment. The Bush Administration continues to cite that resolution as its authorization – like a blank check – to fight on with no end in sight.
Barack Obama has a very simple case. On the most important commander in chief test of our generation, he got it right, and Senator Clinton got it wrong. In truth, Senator Obama has much more foreign policy experience than either Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan had when they were elected. Senator Obama has worked to confront 21st century challenges like proliferation and genocide on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He possesses the personal attributes of a great leader – an even temperament, an open-minded approach to even the most challenging problems, a willingness to listen to all views, clarity of vision, the ability to inspire, conviction and courage.
And Barack Obama does not use false charges and exaggerated claims to play politics with national security.


No, Obama uses false claims to kneecap another Democrat. Do you have any comment, Gary Hart?

Here is another release from March 24

http://2008central.net/2008/03/25/obama-press-release-misspoke-clintons-prepared-remarks-on-bosnia-join-similar-stretches-on-fmla-schip-and-nafta/

“Misspoke”? Clinton’s Prepared Remarks on Bosnia Join Similar Stretches on FMLA, SCHIP, and NAFTA
CHICAGO, IL—The Clinton campaign claimed today that Senator Clinton “misspoke” when she described a supposedly harrowing landing in Tuzla, Bosnia as First Lady in 1996—despite the fact that the claim appeared in her prepared remarks. The Tuzla story, now thoroughly debunked, joins a growing list of instances in which Senator Clinton has exaggerated her role in foreign and domestic policymaking.
On the campaign trail, Clinton has frequently touted her role in “helping to pass” the Family and Medical Leave Act, claimed to be “a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning,” and says she played a leadership role in the passage of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. All of these claims have been disproved, raising questions about Senator Clinton’s willingness to misrepresent her experience for political gain.
“Senator Clinton said that a planned welcoming ceremony was cancelled because they needed to avoid sniper fire, but news footage shows that she was met by a small child who read her a poem. Contrary to the latest spin from the Clinton campaign, when you make a false claim that’s in your prepared remarks, it’s not misspeaking, it’s misleading, and it’s part of a troubling pattern of Senator Clinton inflating her foreign policy experience,” said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor.
Clinton’s account of the Bosnia landing, repeated most recently in a speech on March 17, earned four Pinocchios from the Washington Post’s Fact Checker, and has been discounted by several other accounts, both in the press and by the comedian Sinbad, who accompanied her on the supposedly death-defying trip.
Her claim to have opposed NAFTA has been disproved by the recent release of her White House schedules, which showed at least four meetings to advocate for its passage. And with respect to her claim to have by “ to create the State Children’s Health Insurance Program,” the Boston Globe recently wrote:
“Hillary Clinton, who has frequently described herself on the campaign trail as playing a pivotal role in forging a children’s health insurance plan, had little to do with crafting the landmark legislation or ushering it through Congress, according to several lawmakers, staffers, and healthcare advocates involved in the issue.”
You can read the full article HERE


And here is another press release here from March 26

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clintons-exaggerations-in-her-domestic-record/

Obama Camp Memo on Clinton’s “Exaggerations” in Her Domestic Record
TO: Interested Parties
FR: Obama Campaign
RE: Clinton’s Exaggerations: The Domestic Record
DA: March 26, 2008
Senator Clinton’s claims about her visit to Tuzla, Bosnia—and the footage disproving her account—have created quite a stir. And with good reason. As the Associated Press wrote <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080325/ap_ca/on_deadline_bosnia> yesterday: “What makes Clinton’s situation unique—and the Bosnia embellishments so damaging—is the fact that the New York senator has built her candidacy on the illusion of experience. Any attack on her credentials is a potential Achilles heel.”
Unfortunately, Clinton’s fantastic invention of a sniper-raked landing is only one in a growing list of instances in which she has exaggerated her role as First Lady, particularly with respect to domestic policy.
Clinton has credited herself with “creating” the State Children’s Health Insurance Program and “helping to pass” the Family and Medical Leave Act.
Like the Tuzla story, both of these claims turn out to false—raising serious questions not just about the rationale for Senator Clinton’s campaign, but about her willingness to adhere to the truth.
“Creating” the State Children’s Health Insurance Program?
Ø Question: Did Hillary Clinton “create” SCHIP as First Lady? That’s what her web site says. But it’s not what the program’s congressional sponsors say.
On her website, Senator Clinton goes so far as to laud <http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/> what she calls “her successful effort to create the SCHIP Children’s Health Insurance program.”
“Create” SCHIP? Once again, Senator Clinton’s claim simply doesn’t hold up.
The Boston Globe recently conducted an investigation <http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/14/clinton_role_in_health_program_disputed?mode=PF> into Clinton’s purported role in the legislation, concluding that: “Hillary Clinton, who has frequently described herself on the campaign trail as playing a pivotal role in forging a children’s health insurance plan, had little to do with crafting the landmark legislation or ushering it through Congress, according to several lawmakers, staffers, and healthcare advocates involved in the issue.”
Not only is Senator Clinton’s claim of authorship false, but the White House actually opposed SCHIP during it’s creation: “But the Clinton White House, while supportive of the idea of expanding children’s health, fought the first SCHIP effort, spearheaded by Senators Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah…”
Representative Henry Waxman, a leader on the bill who remains unaffiliated in the race, said he has no memory of any involvement by Clinton: “It was a bipartisan bill. I don’t remember the role of the White House,” said Representative Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who has not endorsed a candidate in the presidential race and who was the chief Democrat on the Energy and Commerce Committee, which deals with health matters. “It did not originate at the White House.”
And Senator Kennedy, the Senate’s undisputed leader on universal health care and one of the actual creators of SCHIP, does not agree with Clinton’s assessment: “Asked whether Clinton was exaggerating her role in creating SCHIP, Kennedy, stopped in the hallway as he was entering the chamber to vote, half-shrugged. ‘Facts are stubborn things,’ he said, declining to criticize Clinton directly. ‘I think we ought to stay with the facts.’”
Leadership on the Family and Medical Leave Act?
Ø Question: Did Senator Clinton “help to pass” FMLA? Her White House schedules and the timeline of the bill’s passage call that claim into question.
Clinton claims on the trail and on her website <Helping%20to%20pass%20the%20Family%20and%20Medical%20Leave%20Act> that she played a significant role in “helping to pass the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) to enable new parents to take time off without losing their jobs…” But there is no evidence that this is the case.
For starters, the bill was signed into law only 16 days after Bill Clinton took office—not much time for the new First Lady to play much of a role. On top of that, the Associated Press reported that an existing version of the bill that had already been passed “by majorities in the last Congress” was altered only slightly and “recycled for enactment” .
In addition, Senator Clinton’s recently released White House schedules show that she didn’t have a single meeting on the bill she now touts. And in her own autobiography she discusses FMLA without making any mention of having a role in its passage.
Now that she’s running for President, however, the facts seem to have changed. Or at least her allegiance to them has.
Experience: Foundation of the Clinton Candidacy
The refrain that Senator Clinton “has the experience to lead on Day One” has been repeated endlessly since she entered the race. On closer inspection, the claims Senator Clinton makes turn out to be little more than stories.
With the next primary less than a month away, it’s time for Senator Clinton to finally face the “vetting” she’s so fond of discussing. Badly trailing in delegates, votes, and states won, she’s going to need more than a new script to win the nomination. But if she wants to regain the trust of the American people, it would be a good place to start.



IV. Keith Olbermann Gets His News Straight From Obama Press Releases

First, it is a good idea to note something that KO let slip on March 12, 2008

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23611984/
OLBERMANN: Richard, you spend a lot of time with Senator Obama on the campaign trail…


KO is speaking to Richard Wolffe. Anyone who watches the show, knows that Wolffe is the point man for the Obama campaign on Countdown. He was shilling for Barack way back in January, while Olbermann was still neutral. Read the transcripts. They are very enlightening.

Now, here is the March 10, 2008 show. I expect that Richard Wolffe, being so close to the Obama camp, got a first peek at the first “Obama Tea Party Memo.” Maybe he wrote it. He is pretty bright. Almost up to Pat Buchanan level.

Note how he and Keith cover two of the talking points from the memo that will be released the next day. I will describe how the talking points are lies later on in this journal.

OLBERMANN: The Clinton campaign has by its own admission focused on this fundamental question: Is Obama sufficiently experienced to be commander in chief? Does he have foreign policy credentials?
snip
And they have now taken a huge hit, specifically her claimed that, quote, “I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland.” That sentence coming back to haunt her tonight, now that a Nobel Peace Prize winner has called her bluff.
Over the weekend, negotiators who helped broker the Belfast Agreement in 1998, telling the British newspaper, “The Daily Telegraph” that her role there had been peripheral at best. Lord Trimble who shared the Nobel Peace Prize for his work negotiating the Belfast Agreement, saying, she had no direct role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland and it is, quote, “a wee bit silly” for exaggerating the part she played now.
Further quoting the former David Trimble, ex-head of Ulster Unionist Party, “I don‘t know there was much she did apart from accompanying Bill Clinton going around. I don‘t want to rain on the thing for her, but being a cheerleader for something is slightly different from being a principal player.”
As for Senator Clinton‘s claim of gone to Bosnia in 1996, when it was too dangerous to send President Clinton, Susan Rice, the former assistant Secretary of State from the Clinton years, now an Obama campaign adviser, pointing out that singer Sheryl Crow and the comedian Sinbad accompanied Mrs. Clinton on that trip, the purpose of which was to put on a USO show for the troops.
snip
WOLFFE: Yes. It is a wee bit of an exaggeration and if it stretches exaggeration to the breaking point. And if you look how the Northern Ireland peace process really developed, the hands-on grind that it was, there is no way a photo-op, a parachute event that Hillary Clinton was involved, with constitutes helping Northern Ireland to peace.
snip
When you put experience in the White House, at the centerpiece of your campaign, you really end up arguing about things that weren‘t obvious or, in fact, evidential in that time period. So, they have to exaggerate because, frankly, she wasn‘t hands-on in terms of the foreign policy record of her husband‘s administration.


March 24, another Obama memo, another Countdown episode devoted to pushing the contents of that memo. This time KO is joined by Jonathon Alter of Newsweek who may be the biggest, fattest news media liar of them all (I will get to his atrocity if a few minutes after I finish with Countdown )

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23794427/

Olbermann shows the obligatory sniperless video and spends some time hashing out Bosnia, then he and Alter agree that it isn’t an important story (so why show the video?), except…

OLBERMANN: But has anybody look at this in a context and said, what would the Republicans do with this in a general election? I mean, she has said she negotiated to open the borders in Macedonia, the borders turned out to have been opened the day before she got there.
She claimed the critical role in the peace process in Ireland, there‘s two equally weighted testimonies about whether or not that was true. So, that‘s like a 50/50 on that. But there are people involved of the process, David Tremble (ph) who says she‘d never had anything to do with it other that arranging lunches (ph) for people, and now, the Bosnia thing.
Can you treat this as—is there a perception that this will be treated as misstatements, misspeaking now, but will the Republicans not come out and say you, are resume padding, you are lying?
ALTER: Well, you know, who knows what the Republicans might do. But I think that it‘s important to distinguish between the substantive exaggerations on things like her involvement in the Northern Ireland peace process, where I saw her terribly exaggerate her role there. She was involved in helping women on both sides come together, but she was not involved in the actual negotiations. That‘s very clear.
She substantively exaggerated her role in S-CHIP, the children‘s health program. She was not involved in the passage of that. She was involved later on in helping it be implemented by the states. But she was not involved in the passage and she claimed that she was.
She was not involved in the Family and Medical Leave Act passage. She was involved in some follow on, more minor legislation. So, I think it‘s important to look at the substance rather than the exaggerations of whether she made a corkscrew landing or dodged fire in Tuzla. And I do think that there is an issue here where she wants to run as the experienced candidate.



Note that someone has finally told KO that the Obama version of the Northern Ireland story is not the only version When did he get told about it? Why did he never issue a correction on the air? His 50/50 explanation is total bullcrap. I will explain why in a bit. The source that called it a “wee-bit silly” is not reliable, and he knows it. Or he should know it. But even if he did his job as a journalist instead of letting Alter and Wolffe feed him Obama oppo, he would never say anything that would help Clinton. That is why he still has his stupid Special Comment about Ferraro up on his site even, though at the very moment he was giving it, Clinton was apologizing to a group of Black newspaper publishers for Ferrraro and for Bill Clinton’s “Jesse Jackson” remarks and rejecting and denouncing Ferraro’s words. And though she did not reject either person, Obama did not reject Wright two days later when KO asked him to on Countdown, and Olbermann did not do a Special Comment on him. My 16 year old son says that KO is turning into O’Reilly. If by that he means they both operate with a double standard, well yeah, he is right.

Also note that Alter delivers the significant talking points from the March 24 “Obama Tea Party Memo” on Countdown . Wow. Obama sure is lucky. He has the number one prime time liberal news anchor in his pocket reading his talking points as if they are news without any fact checking at all. WTG!

March 26, another “Obama Tea Party Memo” and KO leads with the Sniper story again. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23827282/

I will let you read it yourself. The main things to note are that there is lots of video,today, and then there is a snarky interview with, Margaret Carlson who will go down in journalism history for telling the Rolling Stone that participating in the “Gore is a liar” media atrocity was much more fun than fact checking Bush’s lies.

While researching for this journal, I have stumbled across so many KO media atrocities directed at Sen. Clinton that one has to wonder what on earth got into him in the month of March. Did whatever foul creature crawled up Chris Matthews’ thigh hop onto Olbermann? I am going to save most of it for later, but this takes the cake for projection. Here, from Mr. Tonya Harding himself, is the “I know you are but what I am” of all time:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23848687/

March 27

OLBERMANN: The reported “Tonya Harding” strategy, the idea to kneecap, Senator Obama‘s candidacy, to make him unelectable and thus, force the superdelegates to turn to her at the convention.


Just substitute Clinton for Obama and we have what Olbermann, Alter and Wolffe (along with a whole bunch of other people in the MSM---I do not want to suggest that nuclear energy obsessed GE was the only one that propelled the “Obama Tea Party Memos”) attempting to prove to the Superdelegates that they had better pick Obama, the man who thinks that nukes are green, because Clinton won’t be able to get elected to the post of dog catcher by the time they are through with her.

V. Media Lies

I said that I was going to show that Jonathan Alter was the biggest fattest media liar around. That is probably an exaggeration. There are worse liars than Alter. Dick Morris for example. And Bob Novak. However, of the three stooges for the Obama camp whom I have named in this journal, he is sure the dumbest.

Here is a piece he wrote for Newsweek for April 7, 2008

http://www.newsweek.com/id/129587/page/2

“The Tales Hillary Tells”

Please read the article. Alter claims that Bosnia was not a war zone. That Hillary was not like Eleanor Roosevelt visiting a war zone. That there was no corkscrew landing (was he awake when he wrote this?) That she contributed nothing to the peace process in Northern Ireland. He brings up Watergate. Monica. Travel-gate. Richard-Melon-Scaife. He accuses Clinton of being disappointed that Wright has not sunk Obama’s campaign---clearly projection. Look at the date. He is disappointed that the “Obama Tea Party Memos” which he helped push have not sunk Clinton’s campaign. It probably never entered his pea brain that she might move back to the Democratic base, particularly the poor, unemployed, alienated part of it that distrusts people like Alter and will not believe a damn thing that the corporate media says about Democratic candidates. You can just feel the frustration oozing out from between each line.

VI. Just the Facts

I wish I had known about that Alter piece when I wrote this journal

People Mag 1996, Hillary's Trip Into Bosnia "War Zone" & How Obama Broke the "Final Rule" First
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/189

Here is an actual first person journalist’s account written by someone who accompanied First Lady Hillary Clinton on the journey and who wrote about it at the time (so that we know that no one has persuaded the author to color her story). I found this in about 5 minutes in the public library. I wonder if Alter has a library card.

From People volume 45, April 15, 1996 by Linda Kramer, one of 14 journalists who went along on that trip.

March 25, Bosnia : As our C-17 air transport prepares to land in Bosnia, the flight crew warns passengers to slip on flak vests: “We have entered the combat zone.” Armed GIs in Humvees line the landing strip. The first presidential wife to visit a war zone since Eleanor Roosevelt, Mrs. Clinton comes bearing gifts. For the troops: a 50-inch TV, a VCR, 300 videos and 2,200 phone cards with credit to call home. For Bosnian children: art supplies, toys and cases of candy. The reaction to her visit: “I don’t know about the stuff she’s into, that trouble—not Watergate, what is it?” says Capt. Jonathan Boswell of Nashville later in the day. “It doesn’t matter. It’s really exciting to have her here.”

Unexpectedly, Chelsea proves to be a star attraction several times today. GIs at each stop request photos with the First Daughter. While the First Lady tours an outpost near the badly shelled village of Markovici, Maj. Gen. William Nash, commander of U.S. forces in Bosnia, insists Chelsea chech out an M-1 tank, which he describes as a “mean killing machine.” “That was just great!” says Chelsea afterward, emerging from the belly of the M-1.
Snip

March 26, Ankara, Turkey : After surviving a war zone, the Clintons must now brave the Turkish press…


The author stands by her story, saying that she specifically remembers being told "We have entered the combat zone".

http://www.glamour.com/news/blogs/glamocracy/2008/03/another-view-fr.html

And then there is this.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/26/EDVJVQ9BP.DTL

Bosnia a war zone when Hillary visited in 1996
Richard Rapaport
Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Ten days before the Clinton party arrived in Tuzla, I had flown there on an Air National Guard C-130 with photographer Ed Kashi….


I will leave it up to readers to go to the link for the rest. Basically it confirms that Clinton landed in a war zone---and two easy to locate internet links proved it, one from someone who was actually there with Hillary Clinton. So, I guess Alter does not have Internet or a library card. Poor guy. No wonder he has to rely on campaign oppo to get a story.



That must be why he did not know that Hillary really did play a significant role in Northern Ireland’s Peace Process.

On March 31, a week before Alter wrote his sad little Clinton hit piece, I wrote

Reconstructing Hillary: Ireland, Experience, Bosnia and Nice People

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/178

in response to someone’s journal in which they posted a bunch of pictures of Clinton next to unlikable people. BTW, did you know that the Obama camp circulated a photo of Rev. Wright shaking hands with Bill Clinton at a National Prayer Breakfast?

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012180.php

Back to my journal. I have an entire section devoted to the lie that Clinton was not important in the peace process. The one source, Trimble, is an “Orange”---a North Irish Protestant recently turned Conservative Party member. That makes him the equivalent of a Republican. John Hume, the Irish Catholic liberal and the women who were involved in the peace process all agree that Hillary played a vital role. Be sure to read the NYT articles about how she is treated as a hero in Ireland. And then there is this link.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hume-and-trimble-clash-over-clintons-peace-role-1311181.html

In a statement -- unusually issued by Mrs Clinton's headquarters -- former SDLP leader John Hume insisted Mrs Clinton had played an important role.
Surprised
"I am quite surprised that anyone would suggest that Hillary Clinton did not perform important foreign policy work as first lady," Mr Hume said.
"I can state from first-hand experience that she played a positive role for over a decade in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland. She visited Northern Ireland, met with very many people and gave very decisive support to the peace process.
"In private she made countless calls and contacts, speaking to leaders and opinion makers on all sides, urging them to keep moving forward."
snip
Central to Mrs Clinton's claim of an important role is a meeting she attended in Belfast with a group of women from cross-community groups.
"I remember a meeting that I pulled together in Belfast, in the town hall there, bringing together for the first time Catholics and Protestants from both traditions, having them sitting a room where they had never been before with each other because they don't go to school together, they don't live together; and it was only in large measure because I really asked them to come that they were there."
Mary Fox, the wife of a former IRA prisoner and one of the seven women at the meeting, said she had been there on behalf of the Footprints community centre...


Even if journalists are too lazy to read international newspapers, there was this Clinton camp memo dated the same day that cited Sen. George Mitchell with an opposing view. It also included rebuttals of the charges that she had done nothing more than “drink tea” in Bosnia, Rwanda and China.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=6467

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/10/eveningnews/main3923206.shtml

George Mitchell: She was helpful and supportive, very much involved in the issues, knew all of the delegates. She accompanied President Clinton on each visit he made to Northern Ireland, made several visits of her own. Her greatest focus was on encouraging women in Northern Ireland to get in and stay in the political process, the peace process. And I have said publicly many times and wrote in my book, the role of women in the peace process in Northern Ireland was significant. It did make a difference in the process, so as I said I think it was a helpful and supportive role.


I presume that this is the evidence which made KO say there was a 50/50 split. So, why did he initially say that Clinton was a liar if both memos came out the same day? Because he only reads Obama memos? Oh, wait. That first day was before the memos came out. Richard Wolffe must have gotten an advance sneak peak at at the Obama memo, because he follows them around so much. And I guess KO just takes Wolffe's word for it.

If Olbermann did his job, he would have had someone do what I do---get on the internet and find the John Hume interview and the NYT stories about Hillary in Ireland, and he would have smelled an Obama camp rat in that Northern Ireland story and avoided airing a lie that made him look like a fool--or an Obama tool. What ever happened to Bloggerman? And why on earth did Alter ignore Mitchell and go with the original lie?

Shame on both of them.

As for the charge that Clinton accomplished nothing in Bosnia, the Clinton Memo issued on March 11 has testimonials and links to news articles which tell exactly what she was doing. You can read them here. Maybe she did not run through sniper fire. But she was engaged in meetings whose goal was to secure the safety of refugees to ensure that another Rwanda did not happen. Those who have complained that she and her daughter should not have flown into a war zone have conveniently forgotten that the lives of thousands of people were at risk, and that this was a humanitarian mission. In a situation like that, the good will gesture of sending the First Lady and Daughter counted for a lot.

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=6431

The Obama camp lucked out when they caught Clinton embellishing one trivial aspect of her visit to Bosnia, but that did not change the fact that she had had much more real foreign policy experience that her opponent. The only thing at which Obama apparently excels is getting the news media to repeat his oppo word for word. That is because his campaign knows how to frame stories into the kind of meaningless narratives that are short on substance---and substantiation---but long on outrage or laughs or some other emotion that will get the suckers at home to watch but not think, because no one wants voters to think about what they are doing when they enter the voting booth. Certainly not General Electric. If we thought about "nuclear energy is green" and what John McCain means when he promises that he will end Middle East Wars by ending our dependence on oil, we would all run to the nearest library for books on Chernobyl. All of us except Jonathon Alter.

But the important question for Obama supporters will be did the "Obama Tea Party Memos" work? Yes, like a charm.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Voters-say-Hillary-Clinton-untrustworthy-Poll/298977/

The former first lady, who was in statistical dead heat with Obama in a March poll by the magazine, has thus lost much ground within a month.

Even more devastating for Clinton was that a majority of all registered voters now see her as dishonest and untrustworthy and analysts say that could be reason for her plummeting numbers.


This is probably why the Democratic Party elders are lining up behind the Senator from Illinois. Despite his youth, he is proving to be adroit at selling himself as not a politician while acting like a seasoned politician. If he can kneecap Hillary so effectively, just imagine what he can do to McCain.

Makes you proud to be a Democrat, doesn't it?






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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. LOL kneecap hillary -lol
You're funny!!
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. Your KNEE-JERK reaction is predictable
Talk about knee jerk.
A long and complex well--researched piece. You have your quick knee jerk reaction.
Don't let the facts obscure your single minded narrow view.
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goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
97. clinton apologists, wake up. clinton is a liar. she lies blatantly. clinton is getting
attacked way less than she should be. same thing with mccain. wake up, guys.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. I just expanded my ignore list.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Who gives a flying nut
Hope I'm on it.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
39. typical Obama fan
ignore anything that challenges your hero.
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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
56. Our hero
No, we only ignore propaganda and falsehoods that are nothing more than lies and disinformation.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT?

WE WILL NOT BE DRAGGED DOWN BY HILLARY OR REPUBLICANS THAT WANT TO DESTROY OUR CANDIDATE. WE WILL NOT ALLOW SWIFT BOATING OF OBAMA, WHICH IS WHAT YOU AND MCCAMY ARE TRYING TO DO.

GO BACK TO YOUR CAVES.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
80. grow up, kid


who let's these idiots on here, anyway?

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #80
100. Same people that let your lame ass on here.
:puke:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. why is it that you feel the need to jump into
someone else's conversation to insult me?

what is your fucking problem, huh?

why can't you mind your own business?

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. I overheard your insulting bellowing...
and just broke the door down. The fact that someone disagrees with you is not because they're a newbie or an idiot. It's a discussion board, not a chat room, and you are frankly, offensive. If you need to curse and namecall, then you are a brutish bully whose own arguments are weak, when they're not downright false.

It's not me who has the problem. Read your own tripe and get back to me when you're ready to be more polite. Lame-ass.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. whatever you say
net nanny.

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #80
102. It's amazing how they're all attracted to this place like flies, isn't it
What a cesspool
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
65. Especially material heavily weighted in the words
of the Obama campaign.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. Good thing there's a lot of empty space for it in your cranium..
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:54 PM
Original message
Always good to close out actual information
.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. TMI
I don't know where you stand. If I did, I doubt it would sway my choice for Obama.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. I see you are still spinning the embarassing Bosnia sniper lie.
Fail.

Plus, I thought the talking point is that Obama isn't enough of a "fighter" to take McCain down, unlike Clinton.

Gads, at least get your story straight.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bookmarking to read when I have more time. Thank you for posting! (eom)
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
35. Ditto
Everyone should read this! But unfortunately the ones who need some enlightenment don't read or put people with a different opinion on ignore. They only read and hear things they approve and shut out other opinions...just like bush* I only read some of it and so far it explains just what I've been saying. That it was the Obama camp that started the race bating and blamed it on the Cintons. I can't forgive him for that.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks. Great post.
K&R
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. My finger is cramping from scrolling through that cut-n-paste.
Edited on Sat May-03-08 01:01 AM by VolcanoJen
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. That's a matter of opinion...
I don't think that the two you mentioned are that talented at writing or presenting information.

:shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. No it's a matter of
fact

The OP is nothing but pathetic spin.

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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
37. ?
Your sweetie know you are plastering his pic all over DU?

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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
67. You don't like Obama campaign memos and emails?
.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. so you are for obama?
all i see is a wellrun political campaign getting the truth out
and a lot of evidence as to why he is a better candidate
its not that she lied about bosnia
its just that was the lie that put her over the top
after that most thinking amricans recognized her for her true self
if you spent a lot of time in delusion as to her truthfulness
its not reality based humans job to foster your halucinations

we saw her
we dont trust her


(disclaimer: any use of the word we in the above reply, is solely intended to mean me or myself.the opinions of any other DU member, living or dead, is not to be inferred by this usage.poster is not responsible for any damages or for lost or stolen ideas )
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Msg recd. ty n/t
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. K/R
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georgecolombo Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Who Kneecapped Hillary?
If arguments were evaluated by length rather than quality, you'd be in great shape. Unfortunately, for all of the care and attention that was obviously put into this post, it fails to persuade. The fact is that Senator Clinton was not kneecapped by Senator Obama or, for that matter, by anyone else. Almost all of the wounds suffered by the Clinton campaign have been self-inflicted.

She has run a wretched campaign, one that's been an embarrassment to the party and has now reached the point where some of her most enthusiastic allies are Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. In fact, it's clear that the Republicans DESPERATELY want her to be the Democratic candidate. Oughtn't that tell us everything we need to know about the state of this race?
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. William Jefferson Clinton
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. Actually looks interesting - but a little long....
n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I've made the mistake of slogging through her posts. Not worth the effort.
You'd be better served reading a good book or learning a foreign language or learning to play an instrument or something.

Trust me, there's nothing to be gleaned from a McCamy post, spinning the latest embarassing escapade of her Queen.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
68. Much better to sling off
a few one liners of abuse.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
94. What a vacuous and disingenous comment
Like them or not - McT's posts tend to be thorough, fact based and well researched.

They lead toward conclusions you do not like. So what? Diversity is good and on this board relatively rare.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
50. I enjoyed the first few paragraphs, then scrolled down and realized I'd never have the patience
to read the whole post.

Good job, nevertheless.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. At this point, what is your point?
Selecting sets of facts to tear down the front runner and the party?

To turn your closing phrase around: if you can kneecap Obama so effectively, why would you? Isn't that what we have republicans for?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Good question. Obama will be branded a "Chicago style dirty politician" in the GE unless.....
....he and Clinton form a Unity Ticket. The McCain camp announced early on that their strategy against Obama would be to portray him as a typical Daley style dirty politician. Apparently he and Axelrod did not get the message. Note that the press is putting all of Obama's memos on the internet. Do they put RNC memos on the internet? No, they publish stories based upon them, but we do not get to see who distributed the lies.

In the GE, armed with public knowledge, the RNC will be able to prove that Obama used typical political dirty tricks and bias from people like KO and at the Huffington Post to smear Clinton with lies that could have been refuted with a simple internet search. McCain is keeping a hands off approach on Hillary so that this fall he will be able to court female voters who will be outraged to discover that the Obama campaign was sending out daily emails denying the Clinton helped in Northern Ireland or helped in Bosnia---even though there is plenty of expert testimony that she did both. They will be outraged to discover that the Obama camp propelled the sniper story when Obama was begging people to stop talking about Wright. The MSM will have an easy time painting all of this as supremely dirty tricks.

The only way to keep the RNC from making use of the awful mess that Axelrod and Obama have created is for Obama and Clinton to mend the rift and join forces. Then, it will not matter what was done or said.

That is why I wrote about the "Race Memo" and that is why I wrote this journal. Pretending that the Obama camp has not dug itself into a hole will not change the fact that it is in a precarious situation. Right now, unless they bargain with the media giants---unless they promise GE, Viacom, Time-Warner, Disney, The Tribune, Newscorp---more than McCain is willing to promise them---this story will break this fall. And all it will take is one media outlet aggressively pursuing the story to tarnish Obama's image with GE voters who still do not know him.

The Democratic Party is in great peril, because Axelrod and Obama have put all their apples into winning the primary without any planning for the GE. Maybe they are used to running in elections in which all you have to do is sew up the nomination. In this we see what the Clinton's experience with previous presidential campaigns means. Hillary Clinton has been much more careful and has done little that will hurt her GE chances---it is Obama who has tried to make her unelectable.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. and then there is this....
Edited on Sat May-03-08 10:04 AM by stillcool47
December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail

A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html



Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.


Clinton Co-Chair Resigns Over Obama Drug Remark
By JAKE TAPPER
Dec. 13, 2007
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3992371&page=1
Bill Shaheen, the Clinton campaign's New Hampshire co-chair, stepped down Thursday one day after publicly raising the issue of the youthful drug use of her chief opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois

Shaheen, the husband of a former New Hampshire governor and an influential Democrat, was a constant presence by Clinton's side whenever she campaigned in the Granite State, where recent polls have her and Obama in a dead heat for first in that first-in-the-nation primary state.

Hours after the Wednesday release of a CNN/WMUR poll showing Obama in a statistical tie with Clinton for the first time among New Hampshire Democratic voters, Shaheen told The Washington Post that should Obama get the nomination, "one of the things Republicans are certainly going to jump on is his drug use."

Shaheen said Obama having been so open -- as opposed to then-Gov. George W. Bush, who refused to detail his past drug use during his 2000 presidential campaign -- will "open the door to further queries on the matter.
---------------------------------------
On Sunday, a second Clinton staffer -- Linda Olson, an Iowa County volunteer coordinator, who followed Jones County coordinator Judy Rose -- was asked to resign after reporters discovered she had forwarded an e-mail repeating the scurrilous allegation that Obama, a member of the United Church of Christ, is a Muslim plant.





Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs


Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-

2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html


Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.


Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.
"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1


Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)


http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-

clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."

Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.


Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.

Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html


January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”



COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized
for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-

johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34


Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Exactly - Obama is damaged and we need a "unity ticket"
Edited on Sat May-03-08 01:34 PM by bhikkhu
But who did the damage? You could reason and cut and paste your way out of that one in a multi-page post, but the vast majority will take the obvious and simple answer over the convoluted and tortuous.

Just to state a bit of the narrative I see, for the sake of it being in the open - if Obama is unelectable it is because Hillary has dragged him down to her level of negatives. That's just perception without basis, but that's how things go and your post seems to bolster the perception.

It doesn't lead to a unity ticket.

on edit - to clarify, this is written to address the OP, in support of the post replied to.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. It's been going on since ...
Edited on Sat May-03-08 01:07 PM by stillcool47
Obama came up in the polls before Iowa. And yet, Obama continues to lead. There have been so many times that it has hurt Hillary much more than helped her. Hillary has been down in the dirt for so long, she won't clean up. I think that speaks more to "Her Electability"
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Oh, I agree. Obama is way too ready with the knife in the back.
Isn't he, Rev. Wright?
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. I think you mistake the arguments
McCamy is arguing for a unity ticket based upon Obama's weakness. I am arguing that Obama supporters see this weakness as the product of media narrative and perceptions stemming from Hillary's manner of campaigning. Both of these have no base in reality and can be overcome, whatever the amount of doom we hear. So the OP does not serve its stated purpose of promoting unity at all, it is just more of the same negative fear-mongering we have heard all campaign.

It needs to be overcome by a focus on the issues and what is important rather than "joined".
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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. KNIFE IN THE BACK
QUIT TRYING TO SWIFT BOAT OBAMA, OR WE WILL REALLY PULL OUT THE DIRTY LAUNDRY ON HILLARY.. SPEAKING OF RELIGION, PLEASE EXPLAIN HILLARY'S AFFILIATION WITH THE "FAMILY PRAYER GROUP" THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO ITS' SUPPORT OF HITLER. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. WE HAVE. AND JUST STOP YOUR LYING CRAP.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
70. Barack stabbed by Benedict Obama
with full support of the turncoat crowd on DU.
Amazing display.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
107. I approve of a "unity" ticket...
made up of two candidates who are in unity that Clinton will not be on that ticket. There is more "unity" in that idea than in the attempted blackmail ticket advocated by the OP. Indeed, "who did the damage?"
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. Apples and oranges. 5 surrogates REMARKS as opposed to two coordinated smear campaigns.
The Clinton campaign has apologized for the remarks and has fired the staff workers over the emails (which were unauthorized), sent Shaheen on his way, pulled Bill off the campaign trail for a month and Hillary personally apologized.

The Obama campaign is still lying to claim that these two campaigns---the attempt to spread lies within the "Race Memo" and the attempt to keep the Bosnia sniper story at the front of the news---do not exist. Obama himself was personally caught lying during the ABC debate.

There is a big difference between acts made by volunteers that were not authorized and which were punished and by coordinated campaign dirty tricks strategies which used media whores to spread disinformation to the American public. The latter is exactly what the Bush administration and the Pentagon have been doing. And the really sad thing is that both the "Race Memo" and the "Obama Tea Party Memos" worked like charms, and that is why the Democratic Congress is supporting Obama---it is a room full of politicians as usual supporting another politician as usual, because they figure he will be able to manipulate the American people with a bunch of lies.

I am fed up with politicians who feed the public "memos" that contain lies.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. What's your opinion of Sidney Blumenthal and the six months of RW e-mail from Hillary's campaign?


"I am fed up with politicians who feed the public "memos" that contain lies."

Do you get tired of distorting reality and engaging in hypocrisy?

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #52
98. Thanks! I forgot the "Shuck and Jive"
comment by Andrew Cuomo. I'll be sure to add him to the other high profile surrogates.. Bob Kerrey, Bill Clinton, Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Francine Torge, Lee Nichols, Phil Singer, Sidney Blumenthal et al, who have done, and continue to do the dirty work for the Clinton Campaign . Too bad a memo had to be put out, in order for the media to take note of the pattern. Fortunately many of us have not only noticed it, but will not forget it.



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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #98
111. Yes. Let's purge American English of every black contribution.
You do know the word "Okay" came in on the slave ships? Better get rid of that one, too.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-05-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #111
115. Did I say purge "Shuck and Jive"?
Edited on Mon May-05-08 09:09 AM by stillcool47
Obviously it is a very useful phrase to describe Senator Obama, by some. As is pimping Chelsea Clinton.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
99. So the "unity ticket" is off the table again?
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. Ok, so it is a "unity ticket" argument.
I suppose the reasons for putting it the way that you do are as you say, but it would be nice if a unity ticket argument were based on building up Hillary rather than tearing down Obama.

If you feel that you have to convince the Obama camp that he is damaged goods and unelectable, and so needs Hillary...well, I can see all sorts of bad reactions to that. We have already gone down that road a bit and it has been pretty ugly so far, doing nothing at all for unity.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for your tireless, extensively researched work. K & R.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. Another fabulous, and well researched O.P.
Honestly... without McCamy, there would really be little reason to visit D.U. nowadays.

You inspire me to keep on working for Sen. Clinton!
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. This is so bad I don't know where to begin
But let's randomly take a snippet - Northern Ireland - and think about Hillary's role in the peace process.

Ok, that's enough thinking.

Hillary had no role in the peace process. None. Period.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. "Hillary had no role in the peace process. None. Period." A point lost on those supporting this BS.
n/t
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
48. My favorite is the suggestion that
Richard Wolffe wrote the Obama memos. And that he's almost as smart as Pat Buchanan. That says it all.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Good point!
Edited on Sat May-03-08 03:07 PM by TomClash
LOL. :)

Today I saw Hillary on TV in NC and she was criticizing Barack for not supporting the "gas tax holiday."

That's good policy! NOT. :argh: :thumbsdown:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. You are right. He probably isn't as smart as Pat Buchanan.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Ooh, bitter? n/t
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. I was wondering what you were doing all day yesterday....
Probably thinking of this line...
"overworked journalists...."

Gosh, you are something aint ya?


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bluebellbaby Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
25. Fantastic Post, well documented...but no one's listening or cares about the truth
Hats off to all your work and excellent explanation...mind if I quote you?

I tried to like Obama, but my own instincts said he's just like the rest...a politician...god forbid I use that evil term...the double standards here are shameful...shameful to be a democrat...

I hope others will read this...I will recommend this to everyone!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
27. "Obama campaign did not learn its lesson with the "Race Memo'" You post nothing but distortions. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
29. You should doublecheck YOUR gullibility - MILLIONS of dollars are poured into Clintons' bank account
by the VERY SAME figures named in BCCI who were protected throughout the 90s by Clintons who used the WH to protect the secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite involved in Poppy Bush and Jackson Stephens' fascist operations.

You want us to get warm over crap like this just so Clintons can get back into the WH and continue to protect BushInc into the next decade?

Forget it - we are DONE with closed government - it DOESN'T WORK for the people. YOU HAD YOUR WAY and led to Bush2, 9-11 and this Iraq war.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
112. And who gives money to Barry?
So pathetically naive.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. The shameless hypocrisy is what I've deplored all along from the Obama campaign
I do hope that some can open their eyes to this dirty and surreptitious style of "new politics." It's precisely why I've called Obama a charlatan from the start: the evidence proves this to be the case.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
32.  it`s up to the voters in the next primaries not to vote for barack.
if they do, it`s their fault we will lose the general election....yes it`s all their fault....

i can not understand why anyone would vote for obama now. it`s clear he is the worse presidential candidate we have ever had.it is to bad the people who already have voted for barack did`t understand what "chicago style politics" really means...

no... i`m not proud to be a democrat.

i feel dirty and worse i do not know if i`ll ever feel clean again.......
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Fedja Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
109. fail
"it`s clear he is the worse presidential candidate we have ever had."

You should consider a life of solitude, as reality is clearly too much for you to handle.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. K&R. I don't agree with all you've said, but...
I'm a great fan of KO's (and think he's earned a place in history for stepping up when no one else would), and I've been disappointed in what I see as his replacement of Bush with Clinton as his designated villain. He's not "dead to me," and I look forward to his contributions to our national dialogue for many years to come. I just don't subscribe to the black-or-white thinking that often prevails here. (Hate KO, or adore everything about him; hate Obama or Hillary, or adore everything about them. No in-between.)

I agree with your message that the Obama campaign is not an exercise in purity. As a supporter, I wouldn't expect, or desire, it to be that. A candidate enters our politics with the system as it is. If he or she can't play it as it lays, he or she won't get far.

And, I, too, just realized that Richard Wolffe covers Obama full time.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
55. KO is not dead to me either. Wolffe and Alter use him. KO knows sports, not politics.
It must be so easy to manipulate him. Show him one of those memos, and he would never think to go online and research it for himself. When would he have time? Would he even know how? He wasted all those years on sports.

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planetc Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
34. Listening, caring, K&Ring, the whold nine yards
So, I was thinking to myself, thank heavens for McCamy Taylor, because what Media Matters for America doesn't cover, she will. I care about the truth--this is one of the few points I thing I disagree with you on, your affection for Barthes. I think that a lot of us hold to a faith in a version of the truth that is several miles closer to it than the MSM has been in several decades. I think we can't achieve scientific accuracy to 5 decimal places in arriving at the truth, but we can get as close as we need to get to make an informed voting decision. The informed part is the part that slows the rest of the nation down, because they are being treated like mushrooms--I'm sure you're familiar with the mushroom treatment, as you keep trying to upgrade the quality of information we're getting from shit to reliable information. The only thing I don't understand is how one person can do as much as you're doing--are you really a small team of people? If you're just one person, I'm in awe, and if you're a team, GO TEAM!
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
59. It's just me. Barthes is the man, trust me on this. For a Buddhist
Edited on Sat May-03-08 04:28 PM by McCamy Taylor
the first thing you do is recognize that there is no "reality" as a fixed thing, there is only process, right? I am not "me". If I cling to this notion that I must be "me" and yet I am unable to be the "me" that I think I must be--beautiful or wise or strong---I will be miserable. Instead, I am the actions which I perform. That is where the eight fold path comes in. I attempt to perform the correct actions. I do not always peform every action perfectly, no matter. I am on a path. I am not necessarily at a destination.

Barthes fits perfectly into a nondualist, Buddhist scheme of the world. For him there is no reality. There is only the ever changing interpretation of reality. In this world system, humanity becomes more important than any fixed principle like "Be frugal" or "Thou shalt not kill." Take that latter. It is an inhumane "truism" if someone is deliberately trying to starve or murder your family and you need to fight back in self defense. All values need to be relative.

"God appears and God is light

To those poor souls who dwell in night

But does a human form display

To those who dwell in realms of day"

William Blake

Barthes is only expanding upon Romantic notions that the ultimate freedom is the freedom to reshape values to suit the needs of people as opposed to the old dogma which said that people must bend to fit the will of some ruling class or cult or scientific principle.

"The secret Strength of things
Which governs thought, and to the infinite dome
Of Heaven is as a law, Inhabits thee!
And what were thou, and earth, and stars, and sea,
if to the human mind's imaginings
Silence and solitude were vacancy?"

Shelley "Mont Blanc"

Wallace Stevens developed this idea fully in the early twentieth century.

"It was her voice that made
The sky acutest at its vanishing.
She measured to the hour its solitude.
She was the single artificer of the world
In which she sang. And when she sang, the sea,
Whatever self it had, became the self
That was her song, for she was the maker. Then we,
As we beheld her striding there alone,
Knew that there never was a world for her
Except the one she sang and, singing, made."

"The Idea of Order at Key West"

For a Marxist, this a truly liberating notion. If the human principle is the only true principle---meaning that basic human desire and need, the urge for love and companionship, the need for food and satisfying occupation and family, the natural urge to defend oneself and family from attack---are all valid. No higher values can supersede this.

Barthes system of tearing down meanings is also very useful in understanding propaganda. He shows that the meanings that we attach to words, symbols, objects, stories is artificial. What inspires nationalistic pride? Is it truly humane?

Once we understand how we have been programmed to respond to symbols or signs, we can free ourselves from the brainwashing that tells us "Men must never cry" "Women must never show anger" or whatever other lie we are trying to overcome. Then we can create our own meaning.

There is always meaning for Barthes. He is a Marxist. His meaning or goal is that the reader be free to interpret the text for himself. In a broader sense that means that people be free to form their own set of values that are appropriate for their specific circumstances. So, in the Great Depression the injunction "Thou shalt not steal" does not mean you can not take some fruit from a well stocked grocery store if you are starving and there is no work. Hell, everyone is doing it and the store owner is deliberately looking the other way. You do not even have to feel guilty. You do not even have to hate the grocery store owner for making you feel guilty since you do not feel guilty. You can be glad that he is looking the other way on purpose. You know that everyone is all in this together, even though a few years ago a homeless man without money would have been treated as a pariah.

Meanings change. That is what makes "meaning" bearable. If meaning were fixed, it would be a prison, like Sartes "No Exit", some horrible play you can never escape.

"Time is the mercy of eternity. Without time's swiftness, which is the swiftest of all things, all were eternal torment." William Blake "Milton"

Regarding the issue of politicians using the press to dispense propaganda in order to control popular thought, this is an effort to limit the ability we have to create meaning. By forming a narrative based upon the three basic story units that Robert Heinlein described The Brave Little Tailor The Man Who Learned Better and Boy Meets Girl (when you put your propaganda into one of these forms it will sound "true" just as a fiction sounds more plausible when it is framed around one or all of these story units) and then dispensing it to the public as a red pill or a blue pill, you trick the people in swallowing a certain version of reality that is almost always not in their best interest . How do I know that? Because if anyone is trying to get them to do something that is in their best interest, they can simply point out the facts. People are logical creatures. They like to be appealed to with reason. They liked Bill Clinton because he spelled things out. They like FDR's chats.

The most popular kind of politician in the long run will be one who describes things carefully, so that people feel that they understand and have a sense of control---they make informed decisions. They have been given the ability to create meaning themselves. Meaning was not supplied to them like a Chinese Communist Party slogan. That is why Obama promises transparency.

However, there is no transparency in putting out a Race Memo and having Donna Brazile and Rep. Clyburn and CBS and others recite that Race Memo with its lies as if it is fact.

There is no transparency in putting out misleading oppo on Clinton's foreign policy and having Richard Wolffe trick KO into using his reputation as a truth talker to present the lies as fact.

The Obama camp says it will bring transparency, but it is already engaged in the act of limiting people's ability to create meaning for themselves.

One final point. If you have not read "The Death of the Author" (it is online) do so. If you deny that the "meaning" of the author is the only "meaning" of the text, then propaganda no longer works. Obviously, in order to decipher propaganda, you must know the author. But when reading, if you give the author no authority then you will not be sucked into any weird Mein Kamp delusion. So, for instance, if you are an Obama fan through and through and so you think that anything that says "Obama Memo" on the top must be defended, then you have lost your ability to read the text in a readerly fashion, as Barthes would describe it.


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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
36. I recall that 'tea' comment. He likes to belittle her!!
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks McCamy!
As always, a worthy read! k and r!

:kick:
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Missouri Blue Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
42. Being shot at in Bosnia is not an "insignificant detail."

"Clinton herself made one error about one insubstantial detail which the Obama camp could exploit to portray her as a liar."

I'm highly disappointed with you. Don't realize how significant it is? Doing a mission under-fire without military training is medal material. It would have been played and played again. People might have forgotten details but people would remember something her being shot at. Why? Because it would have been a defining moment, one that she hasn't had. Or has she?

I would go far enough to say that if it happened, she would have the nomination sewed up now. If she wins, it would weaken her as Commander-and-Chief, because military people are particularly hostile to somebody who falsely claims bravery under fire.

I already posted to your previous post about this, pointing this out. I also made the point that there had been zero American casualties up to the time of her visit. That if she went to Bosnia under fire just to give out gifts, she is dumber than a june bug in May. She's almost that dumb if she thought she could get away with it.

A simple check right now: Clinton wrote an autobiography. What did she say about it in her book?

I think having tea with potentates describes her foreign policy experience very well. Why make a stupid lie? It is still more experience than Obama. Furthermore, she might have said she had a staff of experienced Foreign Policy people shrink wrapped from her husband's presidency, and she had Bill ready as an adviser (some would say her Carl Rove). She really didn't have to reach back for a whopper.

It also implies that she hasn't figured out the internet, yet, which means that such things can be checked. It doesn't show much intelligence, like George Allen and the macaca remark. He presumed it would go over people's heads and wouldn't be checked and communicated over the internet.

The Obama camp would have been equally dumb to not "exploit" it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
46. Operation Anti-Chaos: The Narrative on "White Voters" Is Fiction (shows how awful Hillary is doing)
Operation Anti-Chaos: The Narrative on "White Voters" Is Fiction




Nobody - not blogger, nor superdelegate, nor cable news anchor - should open their mouths with another word about this contest until they've studied those graphs and the numbers upon which they are based. Blow explains:

Since January, the Clintons have pummeled Barack Obama with racially tinged comments and questions about his character...

The question is this: Have white Democrats soured on Obama? Apparently not. Although his unfavorable rating from the group is up five percentage points since last summer in polls conducted by The New York Times and CBS News, his favorable rating is up just as much.

Wait. The numbers show that the cynical effort to turn the 2008 campaign into a race riot has hurt the popularity of one candidate among an important demographic, and it's not Barack Obama:

On the other hand, black Democrats' opinion of Hillary Clinton has deteriorated substantially (her favorable rating among them is down 36 percentage points over the same period).

So, to sum up: Look at the damn graphs. You can see that Clinton is in a staggering free-fall among African-American voters, her favorability is down 36 points while 17 percent view her more negatively than before, while Obama's favorable and negative ratings among whites have paired at five point increases. You can even see the small dip - about two percentage points - in his popularity among whites that can be attributed to the news cycles about his ex-pastor, and see that it has leveled out and is now on a straight horizontal line (meanwhile, Clinton's numbers among blacks continue on an extreme downward precipice). The greater context is that even including Obama's slight dip, he's more popular today among white voters than he ever was prior to February.

link


Her tactics have backfired.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. And I suggest that Obama's "Race Memo" strategy worked.
And I suggest that his "Tea Party Memo's" strategy worked, too.

And it is a crying shame.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. And I suggest your response is spin, the same BS Hillary's campaign has been pushing.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
75. Your OP is illogical, ProSense. There never was a pattern of anything that
the Clinton camp tried to do, so showing that the isolated statements that the Obama seized upon to create the "Race Memo" occurred before the "Race Memo" means nothing. Of course the isolated statements that the Obama camp wove into a fictitious narrative occurred before the "Race Memo". That is why they were able to incorporate them into the memo.

The memo, unlike the isolated incidents, was clearly planned, executed and distributed to the press with the intent to smear the Clinton campaign and drive a wedge between her and her African-Anerican support which in January was quite high--to Obama's mortification. And it worked like a charm thanks to the willing press and Clyburn and some others.

Bill Clinton was goaded into mentioning it recently when the WHYY interviewer accused him of race baiting asked him of he regretted it and his first angry response was essentially WTF? They brought up race with the race memo. By the next day he regretted mentioning the divisive issue so when the NBC reporting asked if he really said that the Obama camp was using a Race Memo (present tense) he said no and then he chewed out the press for playing divide and conquer games. The real point was that he did nit want to talk about it. The Race Memo does not hurt Clinton. It hurts Obama. Clinton was being a good Democrat trying to drop the subject but the press did not want to drop it so they changed the story to "Bill lied about it". Clyburn who helped propel the Race Memo, got angry that Clinton mentioned the Race Memo so he retaliated by claiming that "all African-Americans" believed that Clinton was trying to knee cap Obama to make him unelectable in the fall which was obviously bullshit---she has African-American supporters, women in particular. Clyburn realized that he had gone too far so he had to go on Countdown and retract his ridiculous smear.

I posted a mini thread about this for Cali but I did not put it in my journal. It has all the documentation in it. It is probably dropping away in GDP if you want to look for it.

Here is my journal about the "Race Memo"

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/203
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Oh, bullshit!
Which came first: Shaheen's drug dealer comment, Mark Penn's cocaine reference, the fairy tale comment, the false hope accusation, the MLK comment "shuck and jive" or...

the memo?



You're not clueless, just dishonest.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #79
92. The Marl Penn thing is a lie. Fairy tale is a lie. False hope--so what? That was an
economic and experience comment, nothing to do with race. Shaheen said what he did and left-- what he really said was what if the RNC starts asking questions based upon Obama's admitted drug use in his autobiography. And that is not race related either, The Dr. King comment in the "Race Memo" was also a lie. And I don't even know what "shuck and jive" is supposed to be but Young doesn't work for the campaign and I can not see a "pattern" in that one remark.

I already have all the Media Matters links in my "Race Memo" journal debunking the lies which the Obama Camp attempting to spread to the MSM in their memo. It was a fiction woven from lies and people like Bob Herbert of the NYTs and Rep. Clyburne and CBS and a bunch of people at MSNBC reported it all as if it was the gospel truth.

So, yes, the accusations in the "Race Memo" were mostly Bullshit. The important ones, anyway. The ones that got Rep. Clyburne so hot and bothered. That was why the Huffington Post printed the memo.

And the "Tea Party Memos" are full of distortions, too, which is why the MSM printed them. Because they are not done with Obama yet.
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Missouri Blue Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. They certainly don't look "isolated" to me.

Unless you mean the press didn't report them enough for your satisfaction. Or that they didn't have a great effect on Obama as you thought they should. The accurate term would be unsuccessful.

And neither is her claim of ducking sniper fire in Bosnia "insignificant."

How about mining the Clinton campaign for some memos and informing us how isolated and insignificant her campaign's behavior really is?

Unfortunate to say, Clinton has disappointed me, and so has her husband-- at every turn. Obama hasn't been saintly. But I knew this primary campaign had to go negative. Why? Because both are inexperienced, both are about the same on the issues, and the issues are already fully reported.

So, how do you judge two negative campaigns? First, how closely are the lies based on truth? Second, the one who commits the most fouls loses.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #81
93. The Clinton campaign has memos, too. When I find some that are lies, I will post them.
And I would encourage people here to go through the Clinton memos and if they find lies (not just true statements that are unpleasant) to post them and debunk them and show which news outlets are reporting them. Or send me an email and I will do it. But I will only do it if there are actual lies involved, I have seen lots of slimy memos that have been true from both camps, Each side has plenty of skeletons in the closet.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
47. A Politician is a Politician is a Politician first and foremost always...
That is why I have no candidate... I see the poo slung from both sides of the aisle and neither candidate is better than the other....
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thanks, McCamy.
I do appreciate this.

I don't suppose most of the Obama idolaters will ever have a clue how easily they've been manipulated, no matter how often they are faced with actual facts.

But I disagree with you about the unity ticket. I think Obama's resentment would so choke him that he would sabotage himself in every small moment by showing his utter disrespect for Senator Clinton. And, using no more Cheneys as an excuse, he would use her vice presidency as a vehicle for four years of insults and humiliations. Outside his rabble-rousing speeches, he's shown a pettiness that would do Nixon proud.

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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. Thanks McCamy
Thanks, McCamy for the Republican talking points and giving us the peak at the rest of the swiftboatng that will be coming Obama's way. He is and we are prepared. Do your dirty work, we're taking notes.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. The RNC knows all this. They are pros. I am just telling Dems what is coming.
Burying your head in the sand will not make it go away. I have watched David Axelrod's joke of a campaign strategy for a couple of months now. He is supposed to be smart, so why is he running a campaign that seems to have as its only goal winning the nomination---but losing the general election? Does he think that winning the nomination is such a long shot that he is willing to take any chance just to get Obama at the top of the ticket and he will start planning for the general after the nomination is sewn up? You can not do that in a presidential election. Sometimes I have wondered if Axelrod even wants to win the general. Or maybe the people at MSNBC like Wolffe and Alter who are "helping" Obama are really setting him up for a fall this autumn, because GE would rather have McCain.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #58
110. Sigh.
I knew it was wrong not to teach you to take criticism. Now we have a whole generation that imagines YES WE CAN is anything more than an election slogan.

You are so easily led, it terrifies me. You are so blind to an easily detectable technique...go worship at your shrine, dear.

It will always be everybody else's fault.
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
88. We have not been
Manipulated by Obama. We all have manipulated by the Clintons. Besides HRC would be a liability for Obama which he doesn't need. Hillary lies right to your face and you and the rest of the Hillbots still have faith in her. If "sniper fire" wasn't an eye opener for you then I have a bridge to sell ya.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
69. You are the very soul of ridiculousness.
And for heaven's sake, explore the concept of concision.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. No, because I like to back up my assertions with proof so that people can judge for themselves.
Edited on Sat May-03-08 06:02 PM by McCamy Taylor
My posts about media bias can be learning experiences for anyone who cares.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. No, the poster above is correct. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
71. KO accuses Clinton of using Fox for an "Infomercial". He gave Obama free ad-time UNCREDITED.
Edited on Sat May-03-08 05:59 PM by McCamy Taylor
For each of the three "Tea Party Memos" there is a segment on Countdown in which KO plus one of his guests repeats in the lies in the memo as if they are news or true coming from their own mouths and not from the Obama camp, complete with video where it can add to the experience. And at no point was any disclaimer---like "We are getting this from the Obama camp. Richard Wolffe travels with them. And Alter will lie for them. And Carlson here thinks that it is much more fun to do a dog pile on a Democrat than to do actual investigative journalism"---at no point did KO tell us that he was issuing oppo for the Obama campaign.

That plus all the other Obama camp propaganda he has repeated mindlessly...

And he has the nerve to complain that Clinton got some free publicity on Fox.

This is so sad.

KO is a tool, and it is his own damn fault is people are laughing at him behind his back.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/2/115219/2226/754/507740

I will bet that within his circle of friends, no one even tells him what people are saying. He will probably read it in a book a couple of years from now and be shocked. Wolffe probably tells him that people are just jealous. As if anyone would want to be such a laughing stock.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. KO nailed it again. n/t
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
76. "The source that called it a “wee-bit silly” is not reliable, and he knows it."
Right, that guy (David Trimble) was only the first minister of Northern Ireland. I look forward to your explanation of why this is not a reliable source.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. He is an Irish Protestant and now is a Conservative. That makes him a right winger.
I do not listen to anything to European right wingers say about US Democrats. And as an American of Irish Catholic descent like so many Democrats (both Clintons and Obama included) I do not listen to anything that an Irish Protestant conservative politician has to say since they are the ones who were oppressing our ancestors for hundreds of years. Would anyone here listen to Strom Thurman deliver an opinion on the civil rights movement?

John Hume was the leader of the Northern Irish Catholics. He has won more awards that Trimble. He fought hard to liberate Northern Ireland from oppressive British rule. He says that Clinton was a great help. So do others involved in the process. Read the links I posted above in the OP.

KO was punked by Wolffe on that one. The news media was punked. There is absolutely no doubt that the people of Northern Ireland think that Clinton was a great help. The old NYTs articles prove that. And it was all available on the internet before the Countdown story.
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Freida5 Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
77. Bookmarked. Great post Thanks
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
78. "Senator Obama, your campaign has sent out a cascade of e-mails, just about every day ...."
Just getting that in front for those who think Mr. Holier-than-thou has not been engaged in politics as usual.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. Yuppers.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #78
91. Exactly. The self righteous indignation is misplaced.
.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
83. Hillary "embellished one trivial aspect of her visit to Bosnia?"
She either deliberately told a self-aggrandizing lie or had a senior moment!

:mad:
rocknation
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. She went there to speed the release of refugees not to run through sniper fire.
According to the accounts of those who know, she accomplished her mission. Her goal was to prevent the death of refugees by reducing delays in the process of getting them to safety. This involved diplomacy. The sniper fire had nothing to do with her mission. That is why I say that it was trivial. The Obama camp tried to give the impression that if there was no sniper fire then there was no mission. However, this was incorrect. There were thousands of people in danger. There was a war going on. Clinton did have to travel to a war zone to complete her mission. A week later Ron Brown would die taking off from the same airport.

In seeking to undercut Clinton's foreign policy experience, I believe that the Obama team may have overplayed its hand and only served to highlight it.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. The sniper fire had nothing to do with her mission BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
Edited on Sat May-03-08 11:53 PM by rocknation
Why did she say that it DID happen? A self-aggrandizing lie, or a senior moment?

:shrug:
rocknation
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #87
96. I am glad it did not happen. It would have been a shame if someone got shot.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
86. Thank you!!!
Only his most avid supporters think that this guy is pure as the driven snow. He's a product of the Southside Chicago machine and it shows. His fans should start by investigating how he got into the state senate in the first place. Yeah, Barry is such a nice fellow.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
89. There is no fundamental difference between your post here and another on the GD-P front page now.
This one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5804819&mesg_id=5804819

Except LS's is more honest.

Yours is disguised in cut-and-paste spin.

Same underlying angst.

:toast: to your unity!
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Dualism vs. Nondualism 101. lynard invites readers to join him in hating
another human being. he pretends to be a bit sorry for it, but he is actually only grieving for the discomfort which it is causing him. in fact, he seems to be enjoying his hatred of Hillary Clinton. he is almost wallowing in it.

Dualism is a very dangerous thing. It allows us to believe a lie, namely that we exist separate from all other people, and that we can excise another human being from the group, say that that person is unnecessary, evil even and not deserving of love or kindness or basic human dignity and we ourselves will still be complete whole happy human beings. This is a fallacy, as every culture which has ever participated in a genocide, witch hunt, war or similar atrocity has discovered. All people are connected. You can even say that all living things are connected and that what happens to one---especially what we do to one---is reflected back onto ourselves.

Dualism is used by fascist states to create scapegoats and to create objects of fear in order to rob people of their liberty. It is used by religions to persuade people to ignore their natural instincts--such as the instinct to love one another. It is used by business to justify its own obscene profits which are made from the blood, sweat and tears of the poor.

People are never evil. Actions can be evil. The most evil action is labeling another human being as evil or expendable.


Nondualism is the antidote to the dualist strain that is so common in the west. Nondualism is considered a virtue in the east. Every person, animal, object is necessary. Even things which appear at face value to be "bad" or "dangerous" have a place in the scheme of things. The most dangerous human being is one who seeks to cleanse the world of contamination or darkness or evil or Hillary or one single principle so that its opposite principle can reign supreme. For in the nondualist world, balance is ideal.

However, the pursuit of balance does not mean being completely passive or inactive. There are always forces at work which attempt to disturb the balance. Some of these are natural forces from without like hunger and weather. Some of the most insidious of these come from within. The Buddhists call these desire. You could also call them illusions. People want to believe that certain things are fixed like flies in amber. A dualist might believe that Obama is absolutely perfect in every way. That means that anything which occurs which seems to give the lie to this desire or illusion troubles the spirit. It causes anxiety, bitterness, anger. Once anger takes charge it tells you to act in a certain way. It says "Look for the source of the anger". Now, the source of the anger was the failure of Obama to appear perfect. Like when Wright said what he did about him at the Press club and we think Yeah, he did renounce his words for political reasons However, the illusion says that Obama must be the perfect candidate. So, that road of action is cut off. The anxious mind looks for another way to act. How did Obama look less than perfect? It is Wright's fault. That bastard. But we can not hate Wright. He is Obama's pastor. It must be someone else's fault. It is because he is still in the primary campaign. If he was already the nominee, then no one would have paid attention to Wright. Why is he still campaigning? He still has an opponent. Why does he still have an opponent? Clinton does not recognize that he is the perfect candidate. How can she not acknowledge the obvious? She must be an evil, ambitious woman who secretly wants the Dems to lose. The hate is directed at Hillary. All action is now directed at driving Hillary from the race since this will relieve the anxiety and anger over the feeling that Obama seemed less than perfect.

Now, consider what would happen if one were freed from illusion or desire. If Obama no longer had to run "the perfect campaign" as I have seen it described so many times here at DU.He is just another skilled politician. Wright's words are just a comment. Everything is cool. Clinton is just the political opponent. Obama has a lot of strengths. Since there is no illusion, there is nothing to shatter and nothing to cling to. This frees one to act in a productive way--what the Buddhists call following the 8 Fold Path which just means doing the right thing at the right time. So, Obama supporters do not waste time and energy hating Clinton or making silly videos in which people she knows say rude things about voters so that voters will hate her. Instead, they think of productive ways to get out Obama voters that will also encourage GE turn out.

Because there is no world or reality except that which we make. So, if we are full of hatred, then we make a world of hatred.

That is the fundamental difference between lynard and me.

Thirteen Ways of Looking at the Blackbird
Wallace Stevens

I
Among twenty snowy mountains,
The only moving thing
Was the eye of the blackbird.

II
I was of three minds,
Like a tree
In which there are three blackbirds.

III
The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds.
It was a small part of the pantomime.

IV
A man and a woman
Are one.
A man and a woman and a blackbird
Are one.

V
I do not know which to prefer,
The beauty of inflections
Or the beauty of innuendoes,
The blackbird whistling
Or just after.

VI
Icicles filled the long window
With barbaric glass.
The shadow of the blackbird
Crossed it, to and fro.
The mood
Traced in the shadow
An indecipherable cause.

VII
O thin men of Haddam,
Why do you imagine golden birds?
Do you not see how the blackbird
Walks around the feet
Of the women about you?

VIII
I know noble accents
And lucid, inescapable rhythms;
But I know, too,
That the blackbird is involved
In what I know.

IX
When the blackbird flew out of sight,
It marked the edge
Of one of many circles.

X
At the sight of blackbirds
Flying in a green light,
Even the bawds of euphony
Would cry out sharply.

XI
He rode over Connecticut
In a glass coach.
Once, a fear pierced him,
In that he mistook
The shadow of his equipage
For blackbirds.

XII
The river is moving.
The blackbird must be flying.

XIII
It was evening all afternoon.
It was snowing
And it was going to snow.
The blackbird sat
In the cedar-limbs.
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GrimReefa Donating Member (161 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
90. It could be worse
He could have voted for the war.
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FlaBuck Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
101. "embellishing one trivial aspect"
You know...kinda like whether a country has WMD's, etc.

Plays to character IMHO.
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DMorgan Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
103. Let me teach you something about journalism and posting on-line....
Be brief and to the point!

Few people, if any, want to spend an hour on your thread, but you assume they have nothing better to think about.

Arrogance of the poorly trained writer.

Get to the point, give us some links to back up your statement, and move on to better things.

I refuse to read posts of more than 6 paragraphs, and I bet the rest of the people who come here do too. We are NOT your sheep, nor your college undergraduate students sitting here just to be reading your lectures.

Enough said. When you learn to post reasonably, I will read your posts, until then, enjoy your solitude.
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RTBerry Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Nice sutra!
"Enjoy your solitude."

Mind if I use it sometime?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #103
114. About your short attention span...there's medication for that now.
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sfam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 09:09 PM
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113. Check again...I think you left off part of the internet...nt
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