As a woman and as a Democrat, I am ashamed of Hillary Clinton

[Triana]

She has run her campaign exactly like George W. bu$h ran his in 2000 and in 2004. Democrats didn't like that when Republicans did it then. But they're somehow OK with it now that Hillary is doing the VERY same. The GOP /George W. bu$h/ Dick Cheney / Karl Rove method. ALL the same.

Hillary Rodham Clinton has no integrity and IMO, neither does ANYONE who would support her - because of this.

This woman is NOT a Democrat other than in name. She has run her campaign EXACTLY like a Republican would and I have NO reason to believe that she would not run the White House the SAME way. WE HAVE ALREADY HAD EIGHT YEARS OF THAT.

I DO NOT support Republicans because this is how they conduct themselves in campaigns and in office. I WILL NOT support a Democrat who conducts his/herself that way in campaigns or in office.

Supporting Hillary in continuing the destruction of the Democratic Party in this way - and supporting her in the continued destruction of this country wherein she would likely continue leading us down the SAME shameful DESTRUCTIVE road George W. bu$h has lead us down for the past eight years - is NOT supporting CHANGE.

IT'S SUPPORTING MORE REPUBLICAN POLITICS and the SAME Republican politics we've decried for EIGHT LONG YEARS.

Hillary Clinton is the antithesis of everything the Democratic Party ever stood for - for me. She is the antithesis of everything this country ever stood for - just as much as George W. bu$h, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, John McCain, et al and I will NOT support HER for the same reasons I will NOT support THEM.

As a "role model" for any women, all she has to offer is to demonstrate how to "win" at ANY and ALL cost, and how to LIE, CHEAT, SMEAR her opponent, and get her friends and enemies alike to assist her in doing so - BECAUSE SHE CAN'T WIN OTHERWISE. If she could, then WHY RESORT TO SUCH TACTICS? All she has to offer any women is to demonstrate how to plunge a campaign, a party, and a country down to the lowest depths of debauchery and divisiveness in order to get HER way and to "win". Straight into the political sewer is where she took her campaign. I have NO reason to believe she won't take and keep her White House there, too. Just where it's already been for 8 years.

THOSE ARE "LESSONS" Hillary offers women. They lack intelligence, integrity and RESPECT for the process, the party, and for the country. And personally, I've had ENOUGH of them and seen enough of them from the Republican Party which is why I never belonged to it or supported it.

Likewise, I will NOT support Hillary Rodham Clinton in the General Election if she is the "nominee" (such as it is).

If this nomination is handed to her (and at this point that is the only way she'd get it) THIS MAY BE THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE that I simply do not vote at all, or that I do not vote for the "Democratic" nominee (simply because I do not consider Hillary Clinton a Democrat).

I'll either stay home or write in Obama.

IT IS NOT Hillary's supporters who have lead me to this conclusion.

I don't care what they say.

It is HILLARY CLINTON herself and the nasty, dirty, lowdown, disgusting way she has conducted her presidential campaign. She is an insult to me as a woman, and as a Democrat and as an American - AND SHE IS AN INSULT TO MY INTEGRITY. She SHOULD be an insult to the integrity of any Democrat.

If OTHERS want to support this woman, fine with me - but I WILL NOT. She has LONG SINCE lost my vote. I would no more vote for her then I would vote for Karl Rove himself for President.

She is a REPUBLICAN - she behaves like a Republican - she has conducted her campaign like a Republican and I have NO REASON TO BELIEVE she won't run the White House JUST like a Republican - and I don't vote Republican - AND AFTER EIGHT YEARS of just this type of politics, I don't WANT anymore of it!

And I know quite a few others both on and off of DU who feel the SAME way. Their numbers are INCREASING daily. And HILLARY is the cause of it.

[DJ13]

1. Great post, and I sincerely agree with you

K&R!

[PoliticalAmazon]

181. I agree, as well. She is embarssing us all. n/t

[guruoo]

257. And your principles are...?

"When you become like your enemy, your enemy has won."

"As he was rebuilding the Republican Party in Texas, Rove developed a template for smearing opponents. The goal was to have his candidates hover above the fray while urging their opponents to concentrate on issues, thereby constantly putting them in a position of having to play defense and deny unfounded accusations. Eventually, the Rove client, according to the script, would step out to demand an end to the ugliness. Of course, Rove wrote the narrative of these plans in such a way that calling for a truce would not occur until the damage had already been done to his opposition."

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillyToad]

235. Actually the opposite is true...

Obama has ran EXACTLY the same campaign Bush ran in 00 and in 04.

Obama has stayed, 'above the fray,' while his supporters in the media have have been on a months long campaign to destroy the Clintons, just like Bush did in 2000 and 2004 against Gore and Kerry. Obama has refused to denounce the smear campaign waged in his name, thus it is being done with his tacit approval, all according to ROVES PLAYBOOK.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/08/28/moore_rove_swift_boat/">Smear Artist

"As he was rebuilding the Republican Party in Texas, Rove developed a template for smearing opponents. The goal was to have his candidates hover above the fray while urging their opponents to concentrate on issues, thereby constantly putting them in a position of having to play defense and deny unfounded accusations. Eventually, the Rove client, according to the script, would step out to demand an end to the ugliness. Of course, Rove wrote the narrative of these plans in such a way that calling for a truce would not occur until the damage had already been done to his opposition."

[Barrymores Ghost]

252. Welcome to DU.

Things slow over there in your usual home?

[guruoo]

254. Thank you. n/t

[jasmine621]

242. Such hate. Please don't have a stroke behind your feelings. nt

[FlyingSquirrel]

2. The moment I first started seriously turning away from Hillary

was when I watched Sicko and saw the $millions$ from the various donors and realized that they had truly had an effect on her.

[Triana]

3. Actually, I cringed at that too. She was right there with her fistfuls of ca$h...

...it explained a lot.

But I guess I still had *some* hope for her - until this campaign and until she started the GOP/Rovian tactics. She lost me there and I will never support her in any way, shape, form, or fashion again.

I WANTED to support a woman. But as a woman, I am ashamed of Hillary Clinton. There is NO WAY I can support a woman like that. Or ANYONE like that.

[1trackmindGOP]

165. Agree...it is about the Charecter not the gender!

I have no problem voting for either sex...however character, honesty, and ethics are very important attributes and I feel as you...she has shown that she contains very little.

[aquart]

246. How DARE a woman raise money like a man.

How dare she arrive prepared for the fight.

How dare she oppose the Chosen.

[LakeSamish706]

4. Excellent post and I agree totally with every word... I will not support her either...

If she manages to cheat her way into the nomination, she loses my vote, and I will stay home... If the American people see fit to vote her through in the GE, then they deserve what they get (another 4 to 8 years of a George W Bush style of management).

[bvar22]

143. Don't stay home.

A Hillary nom will be a DISASTER for downticket Dems.
Write in Obama if you must (I may), but go to the polls to support the downticket Dems.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[PoliticalAmazon]

207. Perhaps it's time the DNC learned it must pay a price for pushing DLC candidates....

...I hear what you are saying about writing in OBama's name and voting the rest of the ticket.

But there is something to be said about not voting at all. It is the one strategy I can think of (and I have been thinking about this since 2000) that will bring down the DLC-toadying DNC leadership, and force them to replace the ex-leaders with leadership that will actually work with the rank-and-filers, and pay attention to their Dem voter base.

The DNC has been pushing the Dem Party more and more to the right, with their proven-failure strategy of making Dem politicians more like Republicans to win elections.

The DNC assumes that the base Dem supporters are doormats, and will vote for anything with a (D) in front of their name. So there is no reason for them to pay attention to their voting base, and work to represent the best interests of their party membership.

If we do not do something decisive and powerful, I fear we will lose forever our chance to take control of the Dem Party and, therefore, take back control of our government.

Just something to think about. Everybody has to do what their heart and mind tells them to. This is just another option.

[juno jones]

209. I will drag my carcass out to do that

Even if my pres vote is write in or green or the goddamn 'Beer party' or Gary Coleman already, I will go and vote dem downticket. I promise.

But I will not vote for Hillary. it's just more of the same, and don't go holding the supremes over me, because Hilly don't care, she's gaming for '12 if she has to.

[Divernan]

5. I believe her corporate lobbyists/donors would dictate her choice of judicial appointees,.

and they would be conservative, pro-big business/corporate-exploitation-of-workers.
Her "experience" on the Walmart board, and with the Rose law firm/lobbyists, and her need to collect massive donations for her re-election campaign, would dictate her judicial appointments. Oh, she'd nominate a couple of token liberal minorities to the bench, but on the whole, she would make sure that the biases of Bush's appointees would be maintained.

[Triana]

49. I believe her corporate lobbyists/donors would influence most everything she does..

...including that. We've seen that she knows how to make a great PRETENSE of doing something for "the people" (ie: Summer Gas Tax Holiday) but her top priority would always be: 1) herself; and 2) the corporations and their lobbyist donors. If WE got onto her priority list AT ALL we'd be DEAD LAST.

Just.

Like.

Now.

[dansolo]

87. She will pick a pro-choice corporatist

The feminists will cheer, while the working class people continue to get screwed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

196. I've said it all along - the ONLY thing she makes the bench safe for

is abortion rights. That may be enough for some, but not me.

[Cha]

6. hilary's ass is foie gras..

looks like the SuperDees aren't too impressed with hilary's rove strategies, either.

I just hope the clintons don't try to come swarming back into the good graces of the Democratic Party..cause they burnt that bridge.

[Triana]

51. They burned that bridge BUT GOOD with a lot of people...

...I've heard this sentiment a LOT over the past few weeks and it's getting more common and much louder the longer this goes on and the more we learn about Hillary's Rovian tactics. A LOT of folks I've talked to, emailed with, etc. have expressed the same as I have.

She has TOTALLY DISGUSTED a lot of Democrats - or at least it seems like it. Not only is she destroying the party and the process - she's destroying herself.

What a sad example for women everywhere.

[madeline_con]

7. Not releasing her tax info was low.

until after she gets (like it's in the bag) the nomination! :puke:

[ruby slippers]

8. older white female Independent agrees with you....

[BlackVelvet04]

9. As a woman and a Democrat I'm ashamed of a lot of women...

but Hillary isn't one of them.

[Beausoir]

10. As an educated woman and a Democrat...I cancel you out.

Sorry.

[WhoDoYouTrust]

73. As an educated woman and a Democrat....I give Triana

a one up.

[dchill]

174. Anyone who votes for Obama cancels YOU out.

Even an under-educated white man like myself.

[papau]

189. As an educated male father of 3 hard working daughters, I am ashamed of women that reject Hillary &

chose a con-artist male like Obama

[Heathen57]

231. Hillary is not a good role model for young women

She is showing them that they have to use race-baiting, underhanded, slimy, and illegal tactics in order to win. She is showing them a woman can't compete on her own merits.

I would much prefer that my daughter not succumb to the outdated ideals that Hillary is showing these young women. She doesn't have to resort to all the old stereotypes that women have to cheat, lie, and even sleep with the boss to get ahead.

If that is your vision for the nation's young women, I feel bad for you. The sooner we dispel these myths the better. And Hillary isn't helping one bit.

[Barrymores Ghost]

253. "Ashamed of Women who reject Hillary?"

Like the women of America owe their allegience to a Rovian, corporatist, war-enabling, Bush-coddling, Fox suck-up and DINO like Hillary?

Wake the hell up.

[juno jones]

214. Educated working class

woman and there's more to cancel you where I came from.

[Catherine Vincent]

11. It doesn't take long for tripe like this to hit the Greatest Page does it?

[mtnsnake]

21. It tells you how many Clinton hating trolls have infested this place

[LakeSamish706]

25. I think that if you have been paying any attention to polls on DU you will find...

Obama supporters far out number Clinton supporters and that is for a very good reason just as this OP points out.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

40. well said.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

106. so, rational, thinking people = trolls? why, thank you!

[Eric Condon]

115. There it is again, the meme that anyone who doesn't worship at the altar of Clinton is a "troll."

Get it through your heads, Hillbots. The Clintons ARE NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Criticism of them is NOT "right-wing Clinton hating." We attack the Clintons FROM THE LEFT because we recognize that they don't stand for progressive values the way real Democrats like us do. Criticism of the Clintons is NOT the same as criticism of the Democratic Party.

They don't even belong in the Party, let alone represent it.

[EnviroBat]

131. Well stated!

:applause:

[bvar22]

147. Well said.

:thumbsup:



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[hell-bent]

153. "progressive values the way real Democrats like us do"

What the hell does that mean? What are you values? You wouldn't know real Democratic values if it hit you in the face. I suspect your values are in line with Ralph Nader, right? They don't belong in the Party? Where the fuck were you when the Clintons were in office? Born yet? Or, did you get all your information from the Right-Wing radio and TV hacks?

[mhoran]

195. Wow

Somebody's cranky!

[Eric Condon]

197. I wouldn't know real Democratic values if they hit me in the face?

So says the person whose candidate supported Bu$hCo's illegal corporate wargasm that has benefited no one but war profiteers.

So says the person whose candidate's health care plan ignores the root of the problem in our health care system and instead only benefits corporations.

So says the person whose candidate would "obliterate" Iran.

So says the person whose candidate is running a campaign exactly like KKKarl Rove.

I was alive during the Clinton administration, and I remember the whole thing. I was young, but I remember the right-wing attacks. I know the difference between right-wing and left-wing attacks. I could care less who Bill nails, and I knew the impeachment was crap. But I DO care about things like media deregulation, and DOMA, and pardoning billionaire Marc Rich while letting Leonard Peltier stay in prison for absolutely nothing. The Clinton supporters here are so blinded by their slavish devotion to their candidate that they can't understand that DUers attack the Clintons FROM THE LEFT. I've said this a million times - it's not "repeating a RW meme" to say that the Clintons are TOO CONSERVATIVE. WHY don't the Hillbots understand this?

And no, my views aren't in line with Ralph Nader, because Ralph Nader is a union-busting, egomaniacal hypocrite. My values ARE in line with Dennis Kucinich's, however, because he's what I consider a REAL Democrat and an example to the rest of the party.

[NikolaC]

223. Amen & Well Said

:yourock: That pretty much covers what I have been feeling for a while now. That same sentiment can be stated for some of the OP comments about Hillary. I used to love and support the Clintons wholeheartedly and voted for them with pride. However, I cannot abide some of her more destructive and self serving votes and her campaign's tactics.

[mtnsnake]

206. Amen to that

Besides, most of these so-called Obama supporters don't even know what Obama stands for. The only reason they're excited about Obama is because it gives them a platform from which to continue their hatred of the Clintons. I wouldn't be at all surprised if only about 10% of the Obama whiners on this forum actually give two shits about him. It's all about hating the Clintons with them, nothing more, nothing less, and a ton of them are just imposters who have infiltrated this board, posing as Obama supporters just so they can bash the Clintons 24/7.

BTW, you nailed it with your post, especially about the Right Wing radio part.

[hell-bent]

125. Right on!

It is a disgusting spectacle.

[cyndensco]

183. Guilty as charged...

I am a clinton hating troll....

[PoliticalAmazon]

208. Give it a rest.. Can you spport your candidate with facts or not? n/t

[mtnsnake]

218. I'll give it a rest when this place stops w/all the Clinton-hating lying BS propaganda & innuendo

that goes on 24/7.

How's that.

[PoliticalAmazon]

219. If Hillary is so wonderful, you should have no problem winning the arguments, no? n/t

[0007]

240. I'd say its the other way around.

[momster]

12. I look for human qualities

I look past her femaleness, just as I look past Obama's skin tone. I look for the qualities of a human being (a mensch). I don't see them in her...I don't see her being any more gracious in victory than she is in defeat. She blows her own trumpet, marches over the bodies of those who don't bow down to her, and runs around saying 'mine, mine, mine...' I will vote for her if she becomes the nominee because I am a Democrat and because I am deeply concerned about the future of the SCOTUS. But I will not be admiring her or giving her any kind of a 'honeymoon'.

Of course, she won't be the nominee and I am very relieved.

[goclark]

13. I agree with every word that you have written k and r

I am so disappointed in HC and BC -- If they steal this election we will have Co - Presidents.

It would be a horror story to have THEM in the WH.

He would be the real President AGAIN and they would truly be Republicans.

I will never vote for THEM, = never.

[ClayZ]

14. Ditto!

K and R

[marions ghost]

90. Hill and Bill

:thumbsdown: I used to think Bill would be an asset to a Hillary candidacy, but I got over that delusion with this campaign. It's like watching a bad reality show.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. She lost me when she LIED about Obama's record on reproductive choice.

The "present votes" thing was a cynical distortion of his record in the IL Legislature to turn pro-choice women against him.

Then I learned how she worked to allow pharmacists to refuse prescriptions to women, based on their "religious beliefs". This was the result of her association with that creepy powerful religious cult she belongs to. You simply do not kneel down to pray, and work on legislation, with misogynist scum like Santorum and Lindsey Graham and expect me to consider you a feminist.

You do not vote for an illegal war and the use of cluster bombs against children, and expect me to embrace you as a sister in the struggle against the patriarchy. You do not support a bankruptcy bill that screws the working class, and expect me to think you are the champion of women.

And you do not accept millions from the parasitic health insurance industry and expect me to believe that you will deliver universal health care to all Americans.

[Triana]

53. You can see her latest LIES about Obama here on DU - one was in regards to capping credit card..

..interest rates.

She did what ANY GOOD REPUBLICAN would do:

Took PART of what he said,
took it OUT OF CONTEXT,
TWISTED IT AROUND,
then publicized it as a smear.

NOW they're lying about her "God Bless Rich People" remark.

Jesus Keerist on a stick that woman LIES every time her lips move. Just like George W.

[eridani]

68. Wasn't that "God blessED rich people"?

--followed by some sort of statement that they were therefore obligated to give back to society? I certainly agree with the OP, but lists that include trivial stuff with very serious offenses really get under my skin.

I mean, really--Tuzla is orders of magnitude worse than the Sir Edmund Hilary fluff. The latter is just silly resume puffing. Using Rethug memes like pretending that the most important role of a president is "commander in chief," saying that McSame was better than Obama are totally disastrous because they would sink her in the general as much as they would sink Obama. How well has this horseshit policy of constantly agreeing with Rethugs by using their framing and then adding in weak little wussy voice "but we're more technically competent" been working for us for the last 30 years?

[Triana]

91. NO it was NOT. I HEARD it and that is NOT what she said.

If you want to swallow those lies whole, that's your choice.

But I won't.

[eridani]

268. I know she lies about stuff

I'd just rather focus on the non-trivial.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

139. It's not been working well at all

I cringe when I hear Clinton, or anyone on our side, do that tough war talk. Ultimately, people just go with the more blatant warmongers.

[Honeycombe8]

182. Don't forget about the lie by her and her supporters that Obama voted FOR the BR bill.

The reality was that he did not. (Not sure about her vote...I think she DID vote for it? But I'm not sure. But Obama did NOT.)

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LakeSamish706]

19. I have no idea how people like you can continue to support this despicable person...

Everything written in this OP is absolutely accurate, whether you like to admit it or not.

[rodeodance]

38. Most of what is written in the OP could be cut and pasted from a RW smear website. It is hard

to tell the differences some days from the RW smear sites and so-called
'progressive' Obama supporters.

[LVjinx]

44. Obama supporters are doing everything in their power to do the impossible - lose in November

[rodeodance]

48. yes, I agree --they are.

[Cha]

56. Go suck up hilary's

lies.

[rodeodance]

57. I see.....

lots of hope and unity in your post. (NOT)

[40ozDonkey]

122. Unity's only a worry for winners.

Be thankful that you and your candidate don't have to worry about bringing Obama's people to her table. It gives you both the freedom to constantly attack other Democrats.

Inspiring.

[PoliticalAmazon]

210. It's Hillary's supporters who tell us we aren't Democrats, that we're rightwingers....

...and whatever else they can think of, all because we won't stencil "doormat" on our foreheads and lay down for Hillary.

Hillary and her supporters are getting their just deserts, and it's going to get worse the longer this goes on.

[eridani]

69. Winger websites don't criticise any Dem from the left, do they?

Just about all of the attacks on her here are from the left, except for a few assholes who persist in using Repuke-generated words like "Shillary" and "Billary."

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

154. the truth is that Hillary has cozied up with the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" literally

1. buddies with Richard Mellon Scaife.
2. Hubby on Rush Limbaugh Show.
3. Voted for Iraq war.
4. Pandering "gas tax holiday" in tandem with John McCain, even though congress says it isnt' going to happen.
5. Push polling in North Carolina.
6. Robo Calls misleading African American voters in North Carolina

She is what she so claimed she despised.

[ruby slippers]

22. well, she used to be one....roots run deep, you know....

[Triana]

54. Yea. She still is. The Democratic pantsuit doesn't quite cover up the big R. n/t

[rodeodance]

58. and you

posing as so called "progressive" is a sad day for Democrats

[ut oh]

155. The only one here posing

is you...

[zulchzulu]

17. I've run into many women disgusted with Hillary at grassroots efforts

You are certainly not alone. It is more tragic than anything.

Don't worry though. She will NOT be the nominee no matter how hard she tries. It is over and her concession is just a matter of time.

[Triana]

61. I hope so. Hillary is an embarrassment to Democrats and all we've stood for n/t

[KittyWampus]

18. Why do we have to put up with this? How is it no one can get her off the stage?

What the hell is the point?

[depakid]

20. "Hillary Clinton is the antithesis of everything the Democratic Party ever stood for"

Agreed in some respects.

Yet she knows how to fight.

[tularetom]

30. If she knew how to "fight" why didn't she fight bush

over the Iraq war resolution. Why didn't she fight over the horrid lieberman resolution declaring Iran a terrorist nation and all but urging nuclear war with them. Why didn't she fight the insurance companies over "real" health care reform, and why didn't she fight over NAFTA.

Sorry she ain't a "fighter" she's a robo candidate who's been focus grouped and programmed to fool voters into thinking she's "tough".

[depakid]

64. Good question

[eridani]

70. She never fights for anything worth fighting for. She is fighting for Rethug values

--and against other Democrats. Here's a big fat clue for you. When Repukes use their own framing, they win. And when Dems use the very same frames, Repukes win even bigger because they get an extra boost from opponents effectively saying "Of course you are right."

[TragedyandHope]

23. Thanks for the great, heartfelt post!

You're not alone.

:kick:

[Blue_State_Elitist]

24. OMG BOLD!

Relax please.

[dugggy]

26. Same Obama who befriended Ayers and Wright?

One is a convicted terrorist and other hates the goddammed America in
his own recorded words.

[eridani]

71. The same Clinton whose prayer group leader is a nazi-loving shitstain? n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

100. Ayers-convicted of nothing/Wright-loves his country enough to criticize it.

Henceforth, you cannot say you didn't know any better.

Carry on.

[ekwhite]

132. Shall we talk about Clinton and Douglas Coe?

Or how about President Clinton's pardons of Weathermen? That is just horseshit and McCarthyism, and you know it.


Just so everyone knows my position, I mostly agree with Rev. Wright, except for his praise of Louis Farrakhan and his AIDS comments. I will never, ever, forgive Farrakhan for the assassination of Malcolm X, and I do not think the government was technically capable of engineering the HIV virus, although they were morally capable of it.

[JBShakes]

156. Ahem...

"All charges against him were dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct during the long search for the fugitives."

Don't bother yourself with things like FACTS.

You get those talking points from the same place the Clinton campaign did? Sean Hannity?

Nice to see all these "progressives" defending Senator Clinton with lies.

[dugggy]

260. So Ayers got off on a technicality...but still a full bodied terrorist

May be Obama will befriend Osama and it will be
happy days are here again.

[emilyg]

28. As a woman and a life-long Democrat - I'm very proud of Hillary.

[WillyT]

31. And That's Some Scary Shit... Regarding Women...

:shrug:

[Beacool]

119. Scary shit is supporting an empty suit!!!!! n/t

[ekwhite]

133. Scary shit is supporting a DINO willing to use Karl Rove tactics on another Democrat N/T

[Beacool]

145. Oh yeah, because Obama and his cronies NEVER used negative tactics

against Hillary???????? Please, you people are way too hypocritical.

[jonestonesusa]

161. "You people are way too hypocritical..."

More outrage you can xerox.

[LakeSamish706]

41. My Condolences! n/t

[Lord Helmet]

29. the Clintons have acted disgusting in this campaign

[PinkTiger]

32. ? What's disgusting are the people on this board who pimp Obama

Obama this, Obama that - my God, you'd think he hung the GD moon. He is a political candidate who is losing. Get over it. Move on. And if you don't want to vote for HIllary, don't.
If you are a Democrat, you will vote for one. Otherwise, get the hell off this board.

[berni_mccoy]

34. What's really disgusting are how some Clinton supporters turn a blind eye to her destructive and now

criminal tactics. She's resorted to voter-suppression of African American voters. It doesn't get any lower than that.

[Lord Helmet]

35. no I think you're kind of cranky and that's pretty disgusting too

[PoliticalAmazon]

212. I think we are ALL cranky. n/t

[davidinalameda]

37. losing what?

he's ahead in delegates and he's going to be the DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

[LakeSamish706]

42. "Otherwise, get the hell off this board." I would make the same suggestion right back at ya. n/t

[emilyg]

43. Thank you.

[NikolaC]

229. Numbers Please

[rodeodance]

33. I am not ashamed of Hillary. I proudly support her.

[eridani]

72. You'll be helping out with the African American vote suppression, I take it? n/t

[hell-bent]

128. What a stupid comment to make.

Yes, if you are not an Obama supporter then you will be engaged in Black voter suppression! Dumb.....Dry out the moisture behind your ears, will ya?

[PoliticalAmazon]

213. Hillary has used all of Bush/ROve's tactics so far. Voter suppression...

...is just another step in their homage to Bush/Rove.

I mean, really. With the many slurs they've spewed towards African-Americans, what makes you think they won't conspire to suppress the votes of African-Americans?

[eridani]

269. Clinton's campaign is linked to it

Do you approve or disapprove? There are actually Clinton supporters on DU who have condemned it. Will you join them?

[eridani]

283. There are obviously more apologizers for voter suppression than actual perps

When are you going to stop cheerleading Clinton's efforts here?

[democracy1st]

36. great post Triana

:kick:

[kid a]

39. You said that much more eloquently than I did. But - right on

k&r

[hayu_lol]

45. Obama must be tanking badly to make these folks so desperate to...

slam Hillary so constantly. Note how their desperate voices climb up in pitch as they spew the latest hatred.

Go Hillary!

[kid a]

47. just a slight tendency to highlight the truth while Obama waits for the inevitable nomination

:hi:

[Triana]

46. And for those who say "You're helping elect McCain"

NO. I'm not. HILLARY is.

SHE can stop this. SHE can clean up her filthy act or drop out. I'll guess she'll do neither because it won't help HER, personally to do it. And HER, personally, is her top priority.

There is little difference, anyway, between McCain and Hillary's ties, connections and money to/from big corporations and their lobbyists: drug companies, the insurance industry, oil and gas industries, and the military-industrial complex. BOTH of them will be wheeling and dealing in back rooms with these corporate entities' lobbyists to serve their best interests. Anyone who thinks the best interest of the American people will be served in either administration is fooling themselves. Hillary Clinton got MORE lobbyist money from the insurance industry and drug companies than ANY OTHER candidate, Dem or Repub. And you're telling me SHE is going to do something for US about healthcare? I don't think so.

Jobs? One word: NAFTA.

Senator Punjab won't stop the bleeding. She can push the 'jobs, jobs' mantra all she wants. She's pushing them alright. Right out of the country. Always has. Always will.

Her and McCain's Summer Gas Tax Holiday? Won't help consumers at all, and will hurt our infrastructure (roads/bridges) because the money won't be there - that's where that tax typically goes. And it is NOT a long-term solution to the high price of gas. It's only a short-term solution to get Hillary and / or McCain elected. It's a plug nickel. A pretentious, shiny and temporary distraction and a non-solution to the problem. Obama had the INTEGRITY to say it's bunk and to say why and it is and why it won't help us. He tells the truth. McCain and Hillary wave shiny $25 dollar bills to distract us and as a pretense to get THEM elected -- but offer no real solutions.

One other word: IWR

Nope. I'm not helping elect McCain by not voting for Hillary. Hillary is. She lost my vote with her nasty campaign which she wasted no time driving straight into the political sewer and into the red (ie: her campaign budget) - just like a Republican would. I have no reason to believe she'd run the country any differently than she's run her campaign - or much differently than McCain, for that matter.

Don't like this? Tell Hillary about it. She's the one who did it, not me. Mrs. "God Bless the Rich People" made this bed herself.

Have a nice night, y'all. Sleep tight.

[NikolaC]

230. Senator Punjab?

While I agree with most of your comments about Hillary, I find the "Senator Punjab" reference sounds offensive. Yes, we have lost many jobs to India but the "Punjab" reference does not sound right, it is basically using a part of someone's culture to make a derisive comment, which I think is wrong.

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. AS A HUMAN BEING... in my more than half a century on this planet

I'm offended.

[LisaL]

52. She is running her campaign like a republican?

Well, hello.
Do you actually want to win the election or not?
My guess is not.

[eridani]

75. Excuuuse me! When Dems campaign like Repukes, it is an inevitable loss

Doing that says that Repukes are right and Dems are wrong, and that means ever so much more coming from a supposedly "opposing" Dem.

[Triana]

92. True. Hillary has BECOME what we've all despised for years as Democrats

She has BECOME a Republican.

I've said it before and I'll repeat: I do not want someone who would stoop so low to be President - to be President.

That's NOT CHANGE. It's REPUBLICAN.

[eridani]

270. I wouldn't call her non-military policy proposals Republican

It's the goddam Repuke FRAMING of everything that pisses me off.

[JTFrog]

118. Given the choice between a republican and someone who acts like a republican,

people will vote for the real republican all the time.

[ccharles000]

55. I disagree and think that Hillary is a wonderful person.

but I respect your feelings.

[rodeodance]

59. Hillary had strong

policies and the ability to get them enacted.

[Roxy66]

62. "Had" is the key word there.

[ruby slippers]

65. I noted that, too...HAD?

[eridani]

74. NAFTA and the Bankruptcy Bill? Thanks for nothing, assholes. n/t

[ekwhite]

135. Like she got universal healthcare enacted in the 90's? N/T

[JBShakes]

159. Strong policies and the ability to get them enacted...

1993 - Placed personally in charge of reforming healthcare. Walked away from the fight after resistance, nothing changed.
1993 - Despite her opposition to it, failed to prevent the ratification of NAFTA.
2002 - Despite reservations about authorizing the use of military in force in Iraq, voted in favor of AUMF, but made sure she placed some safeguards against the abuse of her vote by mentioning that "force should be a last resort" in the speech she gave before handing the blank check to invade to W.
2008 - Strongly opposed to Colombian free trade agreement, turns out a major campaign advisor (who is still working with the campaign) was taking money to lobby FOR it.

"Strong policies and the ability to get them enacted." Good thing you're not just "buying into empty rhetoric", otherwise someone might accuse you of being a "cultist".

[rodeodance]

176. "Strong policies and the ability to get them enacted.." yes......

glad you agree.

[JBShakes]

188. Care to actually provide any examples...

Of "ability" to get her policies enacted? Or would you rather just play schoolyard games?

Look, I'm not criticizing Senator Clinton's policy knowlege. She's EXTREMELY knowledgeable. But for somebody who loves to tout herself as a fighter, she seems to lose an awful lot of fights.

Kind of like how she's currently losing this one.

[Roxy66]

60. She lost me when she jumped on the Repug band wagon and called Obama an Elitist!!

What a slimey thing to do....she could have just let the Repugs do the dirty work and let them take him down, but no...she had to dive into their vat of shit and trumpet that bullshit.

[Triana]

63. She's gotten into political bed with them - talk about LOW - Scaife? Scaife?!

Oh Puhleeze. She climbed right into the sewer with the lot of them. And she and Sidney Blumenthal are using them all - the entire network of them - to smear Obama. Because she can't "win" any other way than be tearing HIM down.

How sad is that?

[ruby slippers]

66. and don't forget Bill O'Reilley, either?

[Beacool]

120. He IS an elitist!!!

Mr. Arugula and the high price of it at Whole Foods (said in IA!!!).

Elitism is a state of mind. FDR, JFK and N. Rockefeller were born with a silver spoon but were not considered elitists.

What Obama said in SF deeply offended plenty of people as we heard while campaigning in PA. You probably never supported Hillary, so don't pretend that she "lost" you over those remarks.

[ekwhite]

137. Versus Ms. "The Rich, God Bless Us"?

Give me a frigging break. Ms. "Doesn't know how to operate a coffeemaker"? :rofl: Who's the frigging elitist, someone who spent the past 8 years making over a hundred million dollars, or someone who just recently paid off their college loans?

[Heathen57]

232. Our family eats Arugula for salads

it tastes better than Iceberg and has much more nutritional value. And there is no way we are elitist. Same with spinach; we have that in omelettes often.

Since when is eating healthy considered elitist? Maybe since this country has given up on cooking and MickeyD's is our dining room.

[Raine]

67. GOOD post

completely on point ... THANKS! :thumbsup:

[barack the house]

76. It's unfortunate if she showed mutual respect there would of been a fine ticket but it just can't be

condoned that Hillary is selling out every ideal we have.

[barack the house]

77. Women will always have a strong woman idol in Michelle who has been where most ordinary

Americans have in their life. In her campaign she talks of what ordinary women go through and how she will ensure her husband is workig for those women too. There will always be a woman advocate in Michelle who has lived the stuggle.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

78. It's unfortunate that the first woman with a serious shot at the White House would use the same

smear tactics that the RW used against her.

I too am seriously thinking of staying home if she gets the nom.

[Triana]

94. That's just it for me. As a woman, I'm ashamed of her. She took an opportunity

to be a GREAT example for other women - whether she won or lost - and BLEW IT.

BLEW IT ROYALLY.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

102. The other thing is...

I heard a fantastic discussion public radio in Philadelphia between Melissa Harris-Lacewell and the former pres of Planned Parenthood. Lacewell is an African American female Obama supporter (and prof at Princeton U!). She made the very excellent point that while Hillary is a woman, she did not blaze any trails. She got where she is by using her connections to powerful men -- she did not work her way up the political ladder, paving the way for "regular" people who come behind her.

On the contrary, Obama did that!

(I didn't explain that very well. Here's a link to the radio broadcast!

http://www.pluggd.tv/audio/channels/whyys_radio_times_with_marty_moss_coane/episodes/428f9)

[Triana]

111. Lacewell is right about Hillary. She used/uses connections to powerful men AND their tactics...

...to get where she is. She didn't get there solely on her own merits. But OBAMA did!

That's one thing I've said is: IF SHE COULD WIN THIS THING SOLELY ON HER OWN MERITS AS A CANDIDATE - the why would she need to resort to such filthy Republican tactics just to "win"? And IF she had any integrity and any OTHER than pure self-interest - then win or lose, she could STILL set a good example for other women AND Democrats who follow. But for her own self-interest, she chose not to. That alone tells me a lot about this woman and her integrity and her priorities. I know from watching her through this campaign that what is best for her party and her country is NOT at the top of her priority list. Her behavior screams it.

Do I want someone like THAT as president?! Heck NO. We already HAVE someone like that as President: George W. bu$h.


And you explained it very well.

THANKS FOR THE LINK! I will listen.

[rodeodance]

179. as did Obama in Chicago. such as Wright and Resco.

[AzDar]

79. Kick...

:kick:

[Olney Blue]

80. I disagree with you- I admire Hillary Clinton.

IMHO, when Senator Obama runs against the Republicans, you will see that she herself was relatively gentle with him. But then- you said that you don't care what her supporters say, so I suppose I'm wasting my time responding.
:)

[Adelante]

81. As a woman, I don't view her as a woman anymore

So I am not moved to be ashamed. I simply don't care what happens to her or her husband. They've become something I don't relate to as human beings.

[Blomst]

82. I am a woman, and I agree!

There are millions of us....

[cornermouse]

83. Hillary, like Obama, is a democrat.

I find this post to be despicable.

[psychopomp]

84. It was her husband who paved the way with his turn to the right

which, for him, put him in the center in the so-called "Third Way." I think that Sen. Clinton is just continuing the trend, but she seems to have lost the plot somewhere along the way.

Her campaign has settled on the "I'm a regular blue-collar gal like you and he's the elitist." However, when you scratch the surface of her campaign these past few weeks, the message is, "I'm a white woman who you can relate to, he's not like us."

[cornermouse]

85. "It's all Bill's fault."

Favorite mantra of both the republican right and the Obama supporters.

[psychopomp]

89. No, sorry, I did not say that

It is Hillary Clinton's fault where her campaign is concerned. She is the boss and must take responsibility for the tone and tactics her campaign has demonstrated.

[ut oh]

157. Nope, not Bill's fault...

This is all Hillary's bad...

[DemsUnited]

86. I used to admire Hillary so much and it has been painful to watch

her and how she has run her campaign the last three months. I agree with much of what you wrote, triana, but still feel I would have to vote for her even if she steals the nomination because of judicial nominees.

[Triana]

96. I admired her too! THAT is part of why it hurt so much to see her do what she's done

And I can't support her now. She has tossed her own party and its women - under a very ugly bus.

[Vinca]

88. I'm currently reading a book by Joe Conason about the tactics

used by Republicans and I could be reading about the Clinton campaign. Everything fits and this book, FYI, was written in 2003.

[Independent-Voter]

93. Great post, and exactly how my mom and wife feel

[grrr050]

108. I'm a Wife and a Mom who

has a husband, a Mother, bruthas and sistahs, aunts and uncles, grandmas and grandpas who are all democrats and WERE ALL PROUD OF HILLARY!!!!!!!

[Independent-Voter]

123. That's a pity. Ya'll should do some research into your selection next time.

[hell-bent]

136. Indepentent voter? Sure.......

Ya'll should take down that Confederate flag flying at your trailer.

[Independent-Voter]

162. Please - voted for Bill Twice, Gore, and would like to vote Dem this time

if you guys don't screw the pooch with this nomination that is.

[grrr050]

151. WE DID!!!!!

Did you?

Or, did you like others, get swept by the "charisma"?

[Independent-Voter]

163. Hardly. Veruca is toxic to the Dem ticket. Time to boot her ass out of Washington for good.

The Clinton's and Bushes are in bed together, and only the idiot few would argue otherwise. Open your eyes.

[DemVet]

95. I'm disgusted with women...

..who are disgusted with HRC. I am. What in the hell are you people thinking? This is the final shot to get a woman President in a generation.

[ekwhite]

141. Horse frigging shit

Hillary is our only shot at getting a woman president in our generation? Not even close to being true. Their are dozens of fine women candidates out there in the wings. Barbara Boxer, Claire McCaskill, Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebelius, just scratching the surface. I would have voted for any of these women in 2008. I will certainly vote for one of them in the future. The idea that Hillary Clinton is the only chance in a generation is simply untrue.

[Harry Monroe]

170. Oh please, not this shit again!!

There are other Democratic women out there who are well qualified to run in 2012!! Get off this "if we don't vote Hillary now, we lose the chance to have a woman in the WH for a generation" soapbox. It's a load of shit. Quit this crap about her being the last, best hope. She should be an embarrassment to women everywhere in her craven, manipulative, Republican ways. I'd be ashamed of her if I were a woman. I'd vote for other qualified Democratic women in a heartbeat. I don't care what your gender is, anyone with half a brain can see right through her bullshit.

[mtnsnake]

97. I highly doubt that you're a Democrat. Heck your're probably not a woman either!

No woman, especially a Democratic woman, would ever post such a flaming pantload of divisive propaganda like this against one of the best Democrats ever. It's a shame that the admins let this kind of divisive shit run rampant on what's supposed to be an open minded Democratic forum. Posts like yours are posted just to get everyone hating each other. Congratulations for your part in making GDP the most hateful forum on earth!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

105. heh. haha. HAHAHAHAHA!

just like a hillarian. attacking someone who factually points out why she cannot support Clinton. Incredible. consistent. disgusting.

[hell-bent]

129. Well stated, mtnsnake!

[goclark]

98. My feelings exactly K and R

I am getting ready to circulate your post to all my friends, to all races and genders.

I'm using my UIR --- the Underground Internet Railroad to get out the message of this campaign.

[Evergreen Emerald]

99. Amazing...a huge page of stuff within NOT ONE FACT...all mimicking talking points

and time and again, when I ask for specifics--they end up being distortions and lies and unsubstantiated crap spewed by Obama and his whispering campaign.

And then, to ignore the political negative campaigning that Obama is doing is hypocritical and makes me wonder if you are all there or just so smitten that your view of reality is off.

[TheDudeAbides]

281. This crap posted here gets very tiresome; wake me up if anyone really wants to discuss this

I have absolutely no idea what the OP is talking about.
Can we have a civil discussion?

What has Hillary done that is so evil?

[Marnieworld]

101. Logged in just to rec and kick

Hillary lost me before she officially launched her campaign. It seemed her entire senate career has been her presidential campaign.

Not just her IWR vote (which either was foolish or a heartless calculation)
but her work on:
Anti-flag burning
Pro censorship about video games
Siding with extreme RW people to enable religious people to not do their jobs and restrict the rights of others
Throwing Kerry under the bus instead of defending him against RW semantical games

and on and on

I would, as a woman, love the pride and relief I would feel if a woman were elected president of this country. But I've said for years NOT THIS WOMAN.

During that ABC debate she would have earned much respect if she protested the lack of depth of the questions too. If she stood with her fellow democrat and rejected the tone and triviality of it all when we are at war in two countries, the economy is in the toilet, gas prices are insane, health care is for profit. She could have rejected the business as usual RW gotcha game but she embraced it and piled on with references to Farakkan and Hamas. It was sickening.

She's Lieberman in a skirt. Look for her at the GOP convention making a speech if she is not the nominee.

[rateyes]

121. She's not Lieberman in a skirt.

She's Lieberman in a pantsuit.

[ekwhite]

144. She's not Lieberman in a pansuit - she's Nixon in a pantsuit. N/T

[rateyes]

158. She's not Nixon in a pantsuit.

She's Nixon in pumps.

[Bette Noir]

164. My eyes! My eyes!

How will I get rid of that image?

[rateyes]

166. Here maybe this image will help you rid yourself of the other:

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

103. As a white person and a Democrat, I'm ashamed of Hillary Clinton.

[npincus]

104. I stand right with you, Triana.

[mainer]

107. ditto ditto ditto

Another female democrat. All my women friends are sick of her.

[Triana]

109. Win or lose, she could have set a great example for women who come after her...

...but she instead chose to be an example of just EXACTLY what MANY women - and most, if not ALL Democrats have been FIGHTING against and fighting to change for years.

She's done a GREAT disservice to our party AND our gender. And if she were President, there is now NO DOUBT she'd continue the same grave disservice George W. et al has done to this country.

That is NOT change. It's REPUBLICAN.

[mcollier]

114. After reading all these posts

Im thinking the democratic party is broken... The republican party is good at causing distraction and division in the democratic party ( Its a key strategy in the Art Of War)... Its working...


Stop this pointless $hit and focus on John McCain and all Congressional seats that are in play in the fall... There are plenty of intelligent people on DU, we must wisely choose our fights and work as a team in order to be effective.

[BonnieJW]

110. Me, too.

I am SO disappointed in Hillary. I was an Edwards fan, but would have voted for Hill if she was the nominee. I find her no better than bush, except she's so much smarter and should know better.

[Triana]

112. "She's much smarter and should know better" - YES! That's part of what is

so shameful about it too.

[lilyannerose]

113. Amen

[Eric Condon]

116. k & r

[Beacool]

117. As a woman and as a Democrat I'm extremely proud of Hillary.

She's the better candidate by far. Her knowledge of policy is impressive, she has a good heart, a keen intelligence and she never gives up.

Obama? Just an ambitious guy with a wafer thin resume and a gigantic ego. He may very well win the nomination, but I doubt that he'll get elected in November.

[Independent-Voter]

130. Big fucking deal. Hitler had keen intellegence and never gave up too.

Except for that cocktail at the end of the road. In any case, if the Dems nominate Veruca, ya'll can kiss control of Congress goodbye in 2 years, just like when Bill was in office. I really, really hope ya'll don't fuck this election up for once.

[Beacool]

142. You're comparing Hillary to Hitler?????????

Obama is not fit to be president at this point in time. If we lose this election, then let it be a wake-up call to the party.

[hell-bent]

150. When all else fails, use the Hitler reference right?

If you remember, Bill balance the budget and left a surplus for your man with the Repukes in control of Congress. Hillary will have the support of a Democratic Congress.

[hell-bent]

124. And I suspect you are not a real Democrat.

You are just a mindless, little Obama robot that has been taken in by all his oratory. I hear his suits are very large for him. True?:rofl:

[marions ghost]

126. thank you

:toast:

[DirtyDawg]

127. I want the Clintons out of my life...

...as much as I want the Bushes out. You see we're gonna be rid of this Bush come January, but if by hook or crook Billary manages to get the nomination then we'll likely have to put up with those two for another four, or eight, years...that assumes that she can beat McCain, which I'm by no means confident of. Get her the hell out of the race as soon as she loses the two next week and put an end to the media claiming that Obama's downfall is some sort of political disaster.

[hell-bent]

134. Why don't you join Nader's party?

Or, is that too liberal for you? I see you know nothing about the Clinton years. Were you born yet?

[stevenleser]

237. Why dont YOU join Nader's party?

I love dumb statements like that

[greiner3]

138. I agree with you on most;

However, you are no true Democrat to me if you will not support Hillary if in the unlikely scenario that she does get the nod to be the Democratic nominee for POTUS in 2008. I held my nose in the last election and voted for Kerry and I'd do it again this November. This time it would be both hands holding my nose.

[hisownpetard]

140. K&R. She has gone beyond any limits of decency in her campaign. She wants to get into office

not so she can change the status quo but so she can out-Rove everyone who done her wrong.

[Chalco]

146. As a woman and a Democrat, I'm ashamed of you. nt

[Mobius]

233. why dont you quantify that

why are you ashamed of the OP?

[Mme. Defarge]

148. Took the words right outa

mon bouche! If somehow she manages to steal the nomination, I will write in Obama.

NO TRUE PATRIOT EVER RUBBER STAMPS A ONE PARTY SYSTEM!!!

[Myrina]

149. K&R

... nothing else to say ... you said it all. Thank you!

[bvar22]

152. K&R, but DON"T stay home on election day.

If Hillary manages to steal the nom, it will be a DISASTER for down ticket Dems as the energized Republicans flock to the polls to defeat her.

The down ticket Dems will need your help.
Write in Obama if you must, but support the down ticket Dems, or we WILL lose the majority in Congress.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Wind Dancer]

160. K & R!

This white woman agrees with you completely.

Hillary has done more to destroy the Democratic Party during this campaign than the Republicans. It's been hard to watch her resort to Rovian tactics in an attempt to destroy Obama. Why her supporters can't see this is a mystery to me.

Thanks for this fine post!

[mamameow]

167. give me a break

you insult pretty easy. have you worked in the corporate world with those nasty MEN? you do not play frumpy housewife when you are running against MEN? unless of course you are kay bailey hutchison or liddy dole, but then you have inside help, no matter how incompetent you are. when you play with the majority who are men, you have to be just as tough, not pansy like. when you have to stand up to putin, you cannot look dreamily into his eyes and see his soul. you have to play man to man, even if you are a woman. are you sure what the democratic party stands for? are you sure what obama or hillary stand for? so if hillary is the nominee, you will vote for mc cain? if so, you are a low down juvenile who does not care about the state this country is in. your spite must have made your nose pretty unsightly. why won't obama go on to debate hillary with no moderators, you don't think he will be in this kind of situation as president? why won't he go on bill the o'liar show? i want someone who has the balls to stands up to anything. someone who stands up to a philandering husband, media that calls her a lesbian countless times, insults to her daughter. a media who has called her a murderer, a thief, and so many other baseless accusations. debauchery? you ranters never give facts with sources, just rants!!!! if you do not support the democratic candidate no matter who it is, then you do not belong in the dem party. with country in such desperate shape, worse than at any other time in our history, you choose not to vote for the dem candidate, then take your damn marbles and get off the playground, go home to mommy and daddy to protect you from what is coming.

[mhoran]

255. I will vote for the Democratic nominee...

Barack Obama.

[invictus]

168. K & R

[Tennessee Gal]

169. Sorry. I do not agree.

You are attempting to smear Hillary.

[HockeyMom]

171. As a white, older, New Yorker, woman

I am ashamed of her. I curse the day I voted for her for Senator. At least with Lazio you knew what you were getting.

Hillary is a snake in the grass; determined to say and do anything, to get the nomination.

Old saying: be careful what you wish for, Hillary, because you just might get it, as in winning the battle, but losing the war. Double pun intended.

[dchill]

172. "exactly like George W. bu$h..."

Actually, it's worse. She is theoretically a Democrat. She is doing this to another Democrat. That's why so many of us are taking it personally. I understand where you are coming from, but regardless of gender, she really stinks.

[VotesForWomen]

173. you need to get some help. seriously. nt

[NOLALady]

175. If she wins the nomination

as a result of her Rovian tactics, we will not see a positive campaign at anytime in the foreseeable future. The message...lowdown, dirty tactics are the only way to win. The process will continue on its downward spiral.

OTOH, if Obama manages to win by staying the course on the high road, we will turn a corner towards positive campaigning.

We seem to be at a crossroad.

JMHO

[Lilith Velkor]

177. waaah she's actually trying to win waah waaaah

Get a fucking grip, you are embarrassing only yourself.

Once you grow some real self-respect, you'll see that other people can't sully any part of your identity unless you let them.

[janet118]

178. Old style dirty politics mustn't work any longer . . .

With the growing influence of 24/7 cable talk shows and YouTube, campaigns will drive us all crazy if we don't put our collective feet down now.

The difference between Clinton and Obama is a top down thing. One candidate encourages "fighting hard and dirty" and echoes the "gotcha" stuff when it is aimed at her opponent. Although it had been sort of going on under the radar and through surrogates for a long time, the incident where I totally lost it for Hillary Clinton was the ABC debate in Philadelphia. She piled on Obama after moderators brought up the Wright and Ayers pseudo-controversies. Join the media frenzy when it is aimed elsewhere and complain about it when it's aimed at you. Old style.

New style. When Clinton's lie about her landing in Bosnia was brought up, Obama actually defended her a bit and asked the moderators to move on to more important issues. This would have been an ideal time to join her fellow Democrat in telling the moderators - Enough! Silence and then more attacking.

A vote for Obama is a vote against the idiotic gamesmanship, gimmickry and phony toughness we see coming from the Clinton side. If we don't make a change this time around and refuse to get caught up in the gaffegate culture, it will only get more insidious in the next cycle. The fact that Hillary Clinton is willing to split the party into factions and align herself with the Republican candidate and the media circus performers in order to win, makes my stomach turn.

Oh yeah, I am one of those older women who is supposed to be Hillary's base. I would definitely love to have a woman president, but it would have to be a woman who could figure out that I don't believe in "winning dirty." I am not young nor black, but I would love to have a black president, but I wouldn't vote for Condi Rice if Crawford, Texas froze over.

[Triana]

190. I agree with you 110%

And Condi would NEVER get my vote either.

I want CHANGE. Not the same old "winning dirty" (love that term) crap that has been going on for so many years. To me, that change means OBAMA.

[glitch]

198. Well said and welcome to DU! nt

[Gman]

180. Jeez... get a life

stop obsessing.

[Upton]

184. As a man and a Democrat I'm ashamed of Hillary Clinton too

you expressed much of the same sentiments I presently hold.

[Geek_Girl]

185. Unfortunately those tactics seem to work with voters

If they didn't work scum bag politicians wouldn't use them. IMHO the problem is the public.

[Medusa]

186. Sadder still, her enablers see nothing wrong with it

just politics as usual for them. Given the choice between making this country great or getting down in the gutter they prefer the gutter.

[Imalittleteapot]

187. As an older white liberal woman, I too am ashamed, which is why

I switched to Obama months ago. Until then I was a big defender of Hillary Clinton - just can't do it anymore.

[Triana]

192. I used to defend her too. Till she became indefensible.

I just can't support what she's done and what she's doing. It's NOT change. It's the same old crap we women and Democrats have fought for years. People are tired of it. I'm really disappointed that the first woman with a shot at the White House handled her campaign in such a sleezy way. I mean - she has tossed the entire Republican/ Rove encyclopedia at Obama - not just the book - but the encyclopedia, the bibliography and the entire library. I think she may have even outdone the Republicans. She certainly has matched them, at least.

Disgusting.

[Perry Mason]

191. ...and the irony is...

You know, a year ago I told people, "Watch out, when Hillary starts running, the right-leaning mainstream media will spare no expense to smear her with the vilest, most demaning misogynist crap you ever heard in your life," sincerely feeling that the Republicans would feel their best chance to defeat her lay in playing to people's most deep-seated prejudices (as no one does quite as well as Republicans). My concern here was probably best represented by the Hillary Nut Cracker toy widely sold on the internet and television, a real neanderthal step back for the American public if there ever was one.

I NEVER DREAMED that Hillary herself would give them such a big bat with which to whack her in the head, and gift wrapped at that!

I WANTED to support her, I hoped she would direct a people-oriented campaign that kindled hope in the great working masses as did Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign, I hoped she would find her way back to civilized national healthcare and peace, and abandon her privleged good ol' boy insider position. My disappointment is great and bitter.

While I remain generally embarrassed by the Democratic party's continually fielding of mid-steam lite candidates who are afraid of real progressive positions, the mud on Hillary is all self-inflicted as far as I'm concerned. I could not vote for her in November.

[Triana]

193. It is ironic. She has outdone or at least matched them. So, she has certainly "won"....

...at something: SLEEZY, lowdown, dirty politics. She bested the men at it.

But - I don't want someone who is good at that for President. We've had that for at least EIGHT years. This election is supposed to be about change. I WANT change. Not more of THAT. Hillary = more of THAT.

Blech. No thanks. I'll likely just write in Obama in the GE if he's not on the ballot. Or, Edwards. But with Hillary and McCain on it - there would be no Democrat to vote for! I'd have to write one in.

[yui]

194. Thank You!

You expressed so well exactly what I feel.

I simply cannot understand how people can see what she's done and still vote for her.

[Lena inRI]

199. Thanks for writing this for so many, Triana. . .

. . .I couldn't agree with you more.

Let me just add that

Hillary is an insufferable fake

and now I don't wish her even as SCOTUS justice as I have opined earlier.

The Democratic Party has to liberate themselves from Hillary and Bill before they can take on the Bush machine.

Please hear us super delegates. And read some Shakespeare, too.

* Out, damned spot! out, I say!

* Here's the smell of the blood still: all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little
hand.
Oh, oh, oh!

* What's done cannot be undone.
Lady Macbeth, in Macbeth Act V, scene i


:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Triana]

225. She is definitely pretentious. She even fooled me - for a WHILE.

The Democratic Party has to liberate themselves from Hillary and Bill - period. It won't undo anything, but I think the party's future would be better without their "influence" - particularly if that influence would take the form that it has for the past several weeks - namely dragging the entire party down into the gutter with them in this campaign.

Heck, we had George & Laura dragging the entire country down there for the past eight years. Isn't that enough?

I'd like to see the light of day again.

[BlueStater]

200. Typical. Any whinefest about Hillary immediately get over 100 recs from this place.

This forum has become a joke.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

201. Ditto and Kudos! K&R Going back to read the replies. nt

[StevieM]

202. Obama is the one running a Bush vs. Gore campaign of personal destruction, complete with

blocking a vote in Florida to let that state's sentiments be included. Like Bush, he sees it all as one big football game.

I'm a man and I support Hillary Clinton.

Steve

[Lucky 13]

203. Agreed. Excellent Post.

:thumbsup:

[nichomachus]

205. I became a Democrat because of Hillary -- and she has been a terrible disappointment

[knixphan]

211. Kick for Macbeth

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

215. In other words, she's acting like a man.

It's o.k., lots of people say Obama isn't black enough. I figure it's the same phenomenon just from a different perspective. See, Hillary and Barak, we want you to win, we want you to be authentically what you are (female or black), but you've also got to appeal to the majority demographic of voters--those whose vision is framed by white maleness (even if the individual is not). So, please don't be too feminine or too black. Yet, at the same time, as you try to win an election where every narrative is filtered through white patriarchy, you MUST remain TRUE to your blackness or femininity.

Jesus, I feel for the two of them. Not so much for McCain. And all of Amurika detests Chimpy's policies, yet they still wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy. Just shoot me.

[rhett o rick]

220. Very interesting point.

I hope I can do this justice.

Men and women are different. this is not earth shaking. And men and women should be treated differently. Don't panic yet plez. Men and woman should both be given the same opportunities, the same wages for the same work, the same respect, etc. But they should be treated differently. I enjoy opening a door for a women and greatly appreciate it when one accepts the gesture as it is intended. Those that try to make something negative out of that are insane.

Also, the world is generally allfuckedup and since a great deal of the reasons are at the feet of men, some of us are counting on the hope that a womens touch (no disrespect intended) might help unfuckup the world. We are sick, sick, sick, of the good ole boys club.

So IMHO there are a lot of people, esp women that look to Sen Clinton to be different than those in the ole boy's club. But some are finding out and and showing great disappointment that Sen Clinton looks more and more like a member of the good old boy's club. It's a shame.

[Triana]

228. Well put. I'd have been happy if she'd just have acted like a Democrat, nevermind the

woman part. I know some women who are not very "female", shall we say, and their partners. I love 'em to bits. They are Democrats but not typical women at all or even very female. But they're DECENT. Hillary isn't. The way she's run her campaign isn't.

To me that's the problem. I AGREE that I'd have LOVED to see a woman in the White House - and I think a woman would offer a very different way of running things, different perspectives, different ways of working on issues and working out issues. Yep. I can understand that! I had hopes for it.

But she has to be at LEAST SOMEWHAT decent (as politicians go) and NOT be some lowdown, dirty-pool-playing, backroom-deal-making, lobbyist-beholden, political sledgehammer-swinging, lying, untrustworthy, spoilt-brat, my-way-or-I'll-obliterate-you, right-wingnut CLONE just to get what SHE WANTS all the time - no matter WHAT is best for her country or her party. THAT kind of "leader" we don't need. No matter WHAT sex (s)he is or WHAT party (s)he is. We've already GOT one of those in the White House. WHY just replace him with a female version?

That's NOT CHANGE! It's REPUBLICAN!

That's what I mean. Supporting her is a violation of my own sense of integrity as a Democrat and as a woman. It just IS and I cannot do it.

TO each his/her own.

For ME personally - it will NEVER be Hillary. I'll write-in Edwards or Obama or my CAT, if there are no Democrats on the ballot. And if HRC is there, there will be no Democrats on the ballot.

[aquart]

245. So. You know NOTHING about the Democrats, either?

This is your very first election, isn't it, sweetie-pie?

[TechBear_Seattle]

244. Implying that Obama is NOT "acting like a man"?

From where I'm standing, I don't see the Obama campaign engaging in all the sleaze, shit-slinging and outright lying that are the hallmark of Clinton's campaign.

[KaptBunnyPants]

259. She's acting like a Republican.

If that's your definition of manhood, then that says more about you than anything else.

[rhett o rick]

216. Yeah, but other than that what do you have against her???

Good post. I am with you

[Auntie Bush]

217. I'm a woman and I LOVE HER!. Oh so strong and intelligent!

Soooo knowledgeable, so experienced, so savoy and she is WOMAN!
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree!

[rhett o rick]

221. Great post. Plez read my response indicated below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5775677&mesg_id=5788826

[juno jones]

222. K&R!

Ignore the screams of pain Triana, they just aren't getting the ponies they were obviously promised.

I'm with ya. She will not get my vote at this point, supremes be damned, she's already shown willingness to look at '12 if this doesn't work out and I can't imagine she would appoint anyone more progressive and less corporatist anyway. I certainly do not believe that she will investigate the legitamacy of the previous administration nor hold those people accountable for their deeds.

The view from under the bus ain't too bad. I've been here since the '80's. Welcome all! Maybe we'll overturn the damn thing soon.

[ms liberty]

224. Actually we've had 16 years of it...

Because this is what the Replicans were doing in the 90's when Bill was in office.

edited to add: K&R

[Triana]

226. YUP - you are right. All the more reason we need real CHANGE and not more of the same. n/t

[Double T]

227. I'm SURE GLAD I'm on HRC's side. obama supporters need to take .........

some ANGER MANAGEMENT classes and get in touch with REALITY. American voters are NOT going to elect left wing incompetent unaccomplished obama. HRC will win the nomination and the WH; get on board!!

[mhoran]

258. Get real

Hillary's finished.

[FreeState]

234. Nice projection there... n/t

[fascisthunter]

236. Well Then, Stop Projecting

[tammywammy]

238. recommended

[0007]

239. bttft and recommend with many kudos for a great post.

[Evergreen Emerald]

241. more posts mimicking the Obama talking points that are distortions

and lies.

I am ashamed of women who pretend to be progressive while back stabbing a progressive Senator by lying and twisting and feigning outrage.

[aquart]

243. What a good patriarchal girl you are.

You think just as you ought. Ambitious women are just...as evil as everyone tells you they are.

Naturally, there is some woman, somewhere, who can both bake a cookie and virtuously run for president. And someday, someday you will eagerly support her.

That's the ticket.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

256. F'n sexist bullshit. You just accused the OP of being incapable

of forming her own opinion of Hillary ("Ambitious women are just...as evil as everyone tells you they are."). This is how you refute their position? Says much about you.

[mtnsnake]

273. Take your racist rants somewhere else pal.

[Sparkly]

247. Good Gawd, has DU become the mirror of Free Republic?

Why let facts get in the way? Just run with the tide! Feel it in your gut! It makes you "progressive" to claim Hillary Clinton is a Republican, and cool, too!

:eyes:

Is there any debate left here? :crazy:

[Auntie Bush]

248. Sorry...but you got that backwards.

So you like Obama and his race baiting, lying and underhanded tactics? Nice! Good for you!

[mod mom]

250. lol-you've been listening to ole Bill projecting!

[Auntie Bush]

261. What part of that wasn't true? nt

[mod mom]

272. It was Bill Clinton who has obviously engaged in race baiting:

Bill Clinton: Obama Is Just Like Jesse Jackson
ABC News | Jake Tapper | January 26, 2008 08:36 PM



Said Bill Clinton today in Columbia, SC: "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."

This was in response to a question about Obama saying it "took two people to beat him." Jackson had not been mentioned.

Boy, I can't understand why anyone would think the Clintons are running a race-baiting campaign to paint Obama as "the black candidate."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/26/bill-clinton-obama-is-ju_n_83406.html

[Auntie Bush]

278. And that's race baiting?

What a joke! You have fallen for all that twisted made up BS from the Obama camp. Obama said it was race baiting and you become outraged over nothing but a simple comment. What's the problem? People who say or refer to any black person is race baiting? Just like Hillary's comment about Johnson...
That was a simple fact and Obama people make it into race baiting. Obama is the one who is guilty and projects it on to others.

[Johnny Potpie]

263. BULLSHIT!!

Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit Auntie Bush. Where do you see race bating, lying, or underhanded tactics in Obama's campaign? Where? When it comes to Hillary, I see plenty. She's running her campaign in the most Rovian/Bushite fashion, I wouldn't be surprised if she is getting advice from Mr. Rove in exchange for inside favors for his corporate shills if she can steal the nomination. :puke:

[Auntie Bush]

264. Everything you said was BS.

You've been listening to too much Tweety, KO and MSM.

Obama gives me a headache...He's been faking it!

[mtnsnake]

274. Auntie Bush you just nailed it again & revealed the obscene hypocrisy of this thread

:yourock:

[mod mom]

249. I agree. I keep thinking why we couldn't have chosen a woman of integrity that

could have inspired our daughters like the way Sen Obama inspires all people. I certainly hope my 10 yo daughter doesn't aspire to be calculating, dishonest (Bosnia, NAFTA, role in Irish Peace Plan & SCHIP) disingenous and willing to screw the nation (think her gas tax pandering and allowing supporters to use GOP voter suppression tactics w robo calls) for her own self centered goals.

[Triana]

265. Right. What a despicable "role model" Hillary is for any young woman...

...I wouldn't want any daughter of mine modeling her behavior after HRC.

[Ronnie]

266. All the young women I know love her.

My nieces would tell you to .

[mod mom]

276. then hope your daughters won't emulate dishonesty, putting up w repeated cheating,

and a mindset that allows for screwing others to get ahead.

I'm trying to instill ethics in my daughter.

peace (or perhaps that's not something you ascribe to since war is much more profitable-ie IWR, Kyl Lieberman, recent Iran statement)

[TheDudeAbides]

282. Modmom: interested in talking about reality of politics?

Hi Modmom,
I dont know if you are open to a civil discussion or not. I pick up on so much anger here.

But, I thought I'd try.

Politicians tell fibs, you know. I can't remember one single candidate that has actually
won the Presidency in my life who did not tell some lies.
Now, I think you have to agree that
even Senator Obama tells some whoppers once in a while. He's human. There's plenty of
places online that document all these fibs.

SO WHAT! Give these people a break! They are under A-M-A-Z-I-N-G pressure to entertain,
impress, and perform on no sleep for over 12 months nonstop.

At the same time, it *is* a serious competition for the most powerful job in the world.
So, you know...we the voters get to poke and pry into each persons life, history, friendships,
mentors, philosophies, mindsets, religions, business partnerships, etc...because it's important that
we know the man and the woman behind the "brands".

I suspect it upsets you when we ask Senator Obama questions about things that he doesn't
want to talk about. And perhaps we don't accept his answer and ask for more details.
That's part of the process, and you really shouldn't hate us, the news and especially not
his opponent when we demand answers to these difficult questions....and when his opponent
points at things we need to know about Senator Obama.

Now, maybe you can help me understand where all this anger at Senator Clinton comes from?
Can anyone talk about his in a civil manner?

What's really going on here?

Thanks

[goldcanyonaz]

251. I am very proud to have Hillary represent me as a woman. I was never a phylis Schlafly fan though.

like many here seem to be.

[ClayZ]

262. Me, too!

K and R

[AZBlue]

267. Great post!

Couldn't agree more!

[invictus]

271. K & R

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

277. K too late to R. nm

[liberaldem4ever]

279. I agree with you 100%

I will never vote for her and neither will my husband or 3 sons who vote. We will however, write in Obama and vote the rest of the ballot for Dems. Hillary Clinton will not drive us from the Dem party, just from her candidacy.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

280. KICK. nt