Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hillary Clinton "has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:01 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton "has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters"
Those are the words of Robert Schenck, pastor of a large influential Assemblies of God church.

Why would Schenck know so much about Coe's headquarter? Here is what I found in a blog I have been following for some time. Extensive research and sources on this group.

From Newsvine:

Other members of Hillary Clinton's prayer cell family.

Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance. To say that Schenck would know whether or not anyone is being inducted into the inner workings of "The Family" is an understatement--if there is a dominionist initiative in Washington, Schenck or an associate *certainly* has his finger in the pie at some level

There's also some disturbing evidence that Clinton may have been initially recruited--and that other politicians are being targeted across both major parties--specifically for the opportunities involved in working with the Oval Office on things like legislation. "The Family" expressly considers itself "kingmakers for God"...


The blog goes into more detail about the other members in Hillary's prayer cell. But first let's go back and look at more about Schenck.

"Schenck" here is Robert Schenck, who is an Assemblies of God pastor (in fact, pastor of the National Community Church, a large Assemblies megachurch which John Ashcroft has been an attendee of) and who is a former head of the infamous anti-choice group Operation Rescue. Schenck promotes his Jewish origins and claims to have converted in Assemblies "missions" targeting the Jewish population; he is also an extremely well politically-connected preacher, not only running a national de facto political action committee of dominionist preachers (largely Assemblies of God) which can literally be said to comprise some of the "worst of the worst" in the Assemblies, but also is partnered with and/or runs numerous dominionist political initiatives nationwide (including a frontgroup of the largely-Assemblies-dominated "National Clergy Council" called "Faith and Action" which has been known to engage in illegal electioneering).

Schenck is rather infamous for, among other things, sneaking into the Senate chambers and "annointing" the seats in cooking oil to "name and claim" the Senators in an bizarre imprecatory prayer attempt to hex them into voting for Samuel Alito during the hearings on whether Alito should become a Supreme Court Justice


Now to the others in the prayer cell...Grace Nelson of Florida, wife of Bill, is one we have discussed here.

Another:

Eileen Bakke

Eileen Bakke is not as familiar as a name to most folks--Bakke (and her husband) are best known now for "charter school" initiatives, but both parties are also the heads of a dominionist grant program known as the Mustard Seed Foundation.


Another is Joanne Kemp:

Joanne Kemp also tends to lean dominionist (subtly noting that the only people she really considers to be "Christian" are "born-again Christians"--code in dominionist circles for fellow dominionists):

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: How would you describe the role of religion in your lives now?

JOANNE KEMP: I would say our faith is very important to me and to all of our family, which is, you know, it's a great joy to see our grown children putting faith central in their lives as well. And so we have a very faith-based family.


Susan Baker is mentioned in length, and a little bit about Grace Nelson.

Grace Nelson is probably the only notable cypher as far as dominionist connections go in that list--I expect she, like Hillary, may well be in the process of being "shepherded".

And quite interestingly, Mrs. Nelson was also the only person in the cell willing to give a statement regarding what goes on there.

Sharlet's article notes Mrs. Nelson's commentary:

We contacted all of Clinton's Fellowship cell mates, but only one agreed to speakthough she stressed that there's much she's not "at liberty" to reveal. Grace Nelson used to be the organizer of the Florida Governor's Prayer Breakfast, which makes her a piety broker in Florida politicsshe would decide who could share the head table with Jeb Bush. Clinton's prayer cell was tight-knit, according to Nelson, who recalled that one of her conservative prayer partners was at first loath to pray for the first lady, but learned to "love Hillary as much as any of us love Hillary." Cells like these, Nelson added, exist in "parliaments all over the world," with all welcome so long as they submit to "the person of Jesus" as the source of their power.


The blogger ends with this statement:

In other words...if she's not a "Member" yet, she is almost certainly being groomed towards that end, and by people who make the "Washington Wives" seem like a Sunday brunch in comparison. Even more disturbingly, she may have been recruited under pretences that may have seemed like a political necessity.

Based on this information, I think it is especially important that Hillary--and for that matter, all politicians--come clean regarding their relationships with "The Family".


Be sure to watch video to which I linked elsewhere. Doug Coe's own words.

NBC investigates The Family

The Nation's latest article on this group reminds us it is very conservative. It states that "at the heart of The Family's American branch is a collection of powerful right-wing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe and Rick Santorum."

More links to come.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have done research on this and also written about it. If we can talk about Wright,
and have thread after thread after FUCKING thread about Wright and Farrakhan and bogus associations with 60s "terrorists", then we can and should be able to have a legitimate discussion about this well-documented topic WITHOUT LOCKING.

It is not flamebait. It is the subject of two books, numerous articles and very legitimate and respected research by Jeff Sharlet, who went undercover in The Family and lived with them. The views of Doug Coe are the views of Doug Coe and are worthy of discussion.

Absolutely double standard not to allow this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I've been mentioning the double standards in folk not wanting to go too hard on Clinton
Edited on Thu May-01-08 07:22 PM by Leopolds Ghost
for various things Obama would be absolutely pummeled for (here and MSM).

No idea it would extend to putting stuff about Hillary's church
in the conspiracy dungeon, though. I think that's a little extreme.

We could say far is fair -- if posts about Wright and his beliefs
were banned from GDP as unfair and irrelevant to the candidate.

Does MSM coverage make a theory (say, about Rev. Wright) legitimate
by "raising legitimate questions" that would otherwise not be raised
-- if silence were maintained?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Exactly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I have an LA Times article...good old mainstream stuff.
It is coming up next.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yet again ...
... your investigative journalism skills dazzle and amaze!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I did not know....
That another post got locked.

But Doug Coe has had very harsh words to say, and he even praises dictators. I have more on that. I use Doug Coe's own words...he owns them.

Truth is truth.

I hope we have not come to that here.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I put his praise for chinese soldiers, etc. in the subject of the OP
Edited on Thu May-01-08 07:28 PM by Leopolds Ghost
I guess it was deemed inflammatory under Godwin's Law.

Of course, had Wright said those things and the youtube clip
become available: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LVrQkunIZXo

It might be all over the nightly news right now

And thus exempt from Godwin's Law due to "newsworthyness".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Coe uses those words in the video. His own words.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. In praise of Sharlet's upcoming book...
"Just when we thought the Christian right was crumbling, Jeff Sharlet delivers a rude shock: One of its most powerful and cult-like core groups, the "Family," has been thriving and even drawing in Democrats like Hillary Clinton. Sharlet's book is one of the most compelling and brilliantly researched exposes you'll ever read-- just don't read it alone at night!" --Barbara Ehrenreich, author of Nickel and Dimed, Bait and Switch, and Dancing in the Streets

From the bookjacket:
They are the Familyfundamentalisms avant-garde, waging spiritual war in the halls of American power and around the globe. They consider themselves the new chosen, congressmen, generals, and foreign dictators who meet in confidential cells, to pray and plan for a leadership led by God, to be won not by force but through quiet diplomacy. Their base is a leafy estate overlooking the Potomac in Arlington, Virginia, and Jeff Sharlet is the only journalist to have written from inside its walls. The Family is about the other half of American fundamentalist powernot its angry masses, but its sophisticated elites. Sharlet follows the story back to Abraham Vereide, an immigrant preacher who in 1935 organized a small group of businessmen sympathetic to European fascism, fusing the Far Right with his own polite but authoritarian faith. From that core, Vereide built an international network of fundamentalists who spoke the language of establishment power, a family that thrives to this day. In public, they host prayer breakfasts; in private they preach a gospel of biblical capitalism, military might, and American empire. Citing Hitler, Lenin, and Mao, Doug Coe, the Family's current leader, declares, "We work with power where we can, build new power where we can't." Sharlets discoveries dramatically challenge conventional wisdom about American fundamentalism, revealing its crucial role in the unraveling of the New Deal, the waging of the Cold War, and the no-holds-barred economics of globalization. The question Sharlet believes we must ask is not What do fundamentalists want? but What have they already done?

ADVANCE PRAISE FOR THE FAMILY:
"Of all the important studies of the American right, The Family is undoubtedly the most eloquent. It is also quite possibly the most terrifying. This story of a secretive and unmerciful church of 'key men' goes way beyond Jesus Christ, CEOit's Jesus Christ, lobbyist; Jesus Christ, strikebreaker; and maybe even Jesus Christ, fuehrer." --Thomas Frank, author of What's the Matter with Kansas?

"Forget what you think you know about the Christian Right; Jeff Sharlet has uncovered a frightening strain of hidden fundamentalism that forces us to revise our understanding of religion and politics in modern America. A brilliant marriage of investigative journalism and history, an unsettling story of how this small but powerful group shaped the faith of the nation in the 20th century and drives the politics of empire in the 21st. Anyone interested in circles of power will love this book."--Debby Applegate, winner of the 2007 Pulitzer Prize for biography for The Most Famous Man in America: The Biography of Henry Ward Beecher

"Jeff Sharlet has an incredibly rare double talent: the instincts of an investigative reporter coupled with the soul of a historian. He has managed to infiltrate the most influential and secretive fundamentalist network in America, and ground his reporting in the most astute and original explanation of fundamentalism I've ever read." ---Hanna Rosin, former religion reporter for the Washington Post and author of God's Harvard: A Christian College on a Mission to Save the Nation

"A gripping, utterly original narrative about an influential evangelical elite that few Americans even know exists. Jeff Sharlet's fine reporting unveils a group whose history stretches from the corporate foes of the New Deal to the congressional lawmakers who gather each year at the National Prayer Breakfast. The Christian Right will never look the same again." --Michael Kazin, author of A Godly Hero: the Life of William Jennings Bryan

"The organization of influence these men constitute may remind readers of a Rotary Clubbut it is a Rotary Club equipped with nuclear weapons. When the Family's members say 'Let us pray,' they are not just making a suggestion." --Michael Lesy, author of Wisconsin Death Trip

Un-American theocrats can only fool patriotic American democrats when there arent critics like Jeff Sharlet around -- careful scholars and soulful writers who understand both the majesty of faith and the evil of its abuses. A remarkable accomplishment in the annals of writing about religion. --Rick Perlstein, author of Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. How about his praise for Genghis Khan and Bin Laden.. (below)
Undercover Among America's Secret Theocrats

Ivanwald, which sits at the end of Twenty-fourth Street North in Arlington, Virginia, is known only to its residents and to the members and friends of the organization that sponsors it, a group of believers who refer to themselves as the Family. The Family is, in its own words, an invisible association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as members, as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.). Regular prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries. The Family maintains a closely guarded database of its associates, but it issues no cards, collects no official dues. Members are asked not to speak about the group or its activities.

The organization has operated under many guises, some active, some defunct: National Committee for Christian Leadership, International Christian Leadership, the National Leadership Council, Fellowship House, the Fellowship Foundation, the National Fellowship Council, the International Foundation. These groups are intended to draw attention away from the Family, and to prevent it from becoming, in the words of one of the Family's leaders, a target for misunderstanding. 11. The Los Angeles Times reported in September that the Fellowship Foundation alone has an annual budget of $10 million, but that represents only a fraction of the Family's finances. Each of the Family's organizations raises funds independently. Ivanwald, for example, is financed at least in part by an entity called the Wilberforce Foundation. Other projects are financed by individual friends: wealthy businessmen, foreign governments, church congregations, or mainstream foundations that may be unaware of the scope of the Family's activities.

At Ivanwald, when I asked to what organization a donation check might be made, I was told there was none; money was raised on a man-to-man basis. Major Family donors named by the Times include Michael Timmis, a Detroit lawyer and Republican fund-raiser; Paul Temple, a private investor from Maryland; and Jerome A. Lewis, former CEO of the Petro-Lewis Corporation. The Family's only publicized gathering is the National Prayer Breakfast, which it established in 1953 and which, with congressional sponsorship, it continues to organize every February in Washington, D.C.

On Doug Coe:A covenant, Doug answered. The congressman half-smiled, as if caught between confessing his ignorance and pretending he knew what Doug was talking about. Like the Mafia, Doug clarified. Look at the strength of their bonds. He made a fist and held it before Tiahrt's face. Tiahrt nodded, squinting. See, for them it's honor, Doug said. For us, it's Jesus.

Coe listed other men who had changed the world through the strength of the covenants they had forged with their brothers: Look at Hitler, he said. Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Bin Laden. The Family, of course, possessed a weapon those leaders lacked: the total Jesus of a brotherhood in Christ.

That's what you get with a covenant, said Coe. Jesus plus nothing.

Two weeks into my stay, David Coe, Doug's son and the presumptive heir to leadership of the Family, dropped by the house. My brothers and I assembled in the living room, where David had draped his tall frame over a burgundy leather recliner like a frat boy, one leg hanging over a padded arm. You guys, David said, are here to learn how to rule the world. He was in his late forties, with dark, gray-flecked hair, an olive complexion, and teeth like a slab of white marble.You guys know about Genghis Khan? he asked. Genghis was a man with a vision. He conqueredDavid stood on the couch under the map, tracing, with his hand, half the northern hemispherenearly everything. He devastated nearly everything. His enemies? He beheaded them. David swiped a finger across his throat. Dop, dop, dop, dop.

David explained that when Genghis entered a defeated city he would call in the local headman and have him stuffed into a crate. Over the crate would be spread a tablecloth, and on the tablecloth would be spread a wonderful meal. And then, while the man suffocated, Genghis ate, and he didn't even hear the man's screams. David still stood on the couch, a finger in the air. Do you know what that means? He was thinking of Christ's parable of the wineskins. You can't pour new into old, David said, returning to his chair. We elect our leaders. Jesus elects his.
He reached over and squeezed the arm of a brother. Isn't that great? David said. That's the way everything in life happens. If you're a person known to be around Jesus, you can go and do anything. And that's who you guys are. When you leave here, you're not only going to know the value of Jesus, you're going to know the people who rule the world. It's about vision.

In a document entitled Our Common Agreement as a Core Group, members of the Family are instructed to form a core group, or a cell, which is defined as a publicly invisible but privately identifiable group of companions. A document called Thoughts on a Core Group explains that Communists use cells as their basic structure. The mafia operates like this, and the basic unit of the Marine Corps is the four man squad. Hitler, Lenin, and many others understood the power of a small core of people. And what the Family desired, from Abraham Vereide to Doug Coe to Bengt, was power, worldly power, with which Christ's kingdom can be built, cell by cell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. Well, well....
I just discovered a post of mine was locked, taken off front page because Coe used the word Hitler, not me. I wrote the admins.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. I was a bit non-plussed earlier ...
... when you mentioned a thread being locked - thought maybe you'd replied to my post by mistake.

What the hell is going on around here lately?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. This one.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2052

Because it had the words in the video link. I wrote all 3 admins about it.

It was good research. Not ugly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. Thanks for the link ...
... I hadn't seen that post - which explains my confusion about your reply.

And you're right - it WAS good research.

So again it begs the question: What the hell is going on around here?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. I am not sure.
about what you ask. I hope to hear soon about it. It is concerning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tinksrival Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hey Mad,
Is this the same religious prayer group that has taken over the Pentagon too?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R for now. B so I can read in depth later.
As always, thanks, madfloridian. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. If Robert Schenck says it, then it must be true.
-snip-
On December 24, 1996, Robert again encountered Clinton at the Washington National Cathedral and, in reference to Clinton's veto of legislation banning partial birth abortions, said "God will hold you to account, Mr. President." Robert was detained by the Secret Service.
-snip-
On June 27, 2005, Robert walked out on Billy Graham during the second night of his Queens, New York crusade on Saturday, after Graham yielded the stage to Bill Clinton and suggested his wife Hillary should be president.
-snip-

Now this guy wouldn't say something not true just to hurt the Clintons, would he?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Schenck
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. If you read the links....he likes Hillary for her devotion.
I did NOT praise Schenck, I quoted him. He is in a position to know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. He's a long time Clinton hater.
Did you know he put an aborted fetus in Bill Clinton's face at a Democratic National Convention?

I believe not a single word that comes out of his mouth regarding Hillary Clinton. Anything he says, he says with the intention of harming her.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sorry you feel that way.
I quoted someone who knows the inner workings of that group. Perhaps you could post a rebuttal with proof instead of just saying he hates Hillary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Sorry, but you quoted one of the most RW whackjobs in Washington.
Perhaps you could find anyone with credibility to confirm what he says.

The reason this story keeps getting posted over and over again, and never gets any traction either here or in the media, is most likely because there is no there there. There is nothing for me to prove. I can't prove a negative.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. CBN Praises Hillary for her "Family Ties" and GOP Legislative Ties..
But Clinton has also joined the GOP on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms.

With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobssay, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.


Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

We sure get a different view of Hillary Clintons faith in this piece, dont we? I think the lesson here is that its dangerous to start judging the faith of others. My view is that we should leave that up to God.


Politically, Hillary Clintons critics can paint her as a liberal. But there is a resume of material here that portrays her as more moderate than you might think. Sometimes Hillarys critics spend so much time trying to demonize her that the entire picture isnt properly represented.

Both sides, Democrats and Republicans are guilty of this. You know that to be true. If she makes it to the general election, you can be sure that her campaign will highlight her bi-partisan work and the part of her resume that screams Midwest family values girl. (Her words, not mine)

<snip>
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/224908.aspx

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I like this line the best
"I think the lesson here is that its dangerous to start judging the faith of others. My view is that we should leave that up to God."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Yes, I will do that...leave it to God. But I will lay out what facts I know.
Then let God judge. No one gave that option when Wright was ripped apart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I did not praise him. I quoted him. He sounds not so nice.
But he is part of the dominionist culture, and he is credible on this issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I have no argument with you that "The Family" (Coe's core group)
is a really frightening and disturbing group. My argument has to do with the extent she in involved in it. My belief is that her involvement, like many others, is very limited. Many members of congress and their families are involved in prayer groups and the National Prayer Breakfast (including Obama) which are sponsored by this organization.

We will have to agree to disagree that Schenck is credible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. That is what we need to examine...just as we so completely examined Wright.
But Wright was nothing compared to this group. He was easily swatted down by the power that is the media and the Clinton campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. And BTW it was her campaign that first judged the faith of others.
You reap what you sow.

You do not turn someone's pastor into political football...if you do...fair is fair.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. As I said above, I totally agree that no one should judge the faith of others.
I am deeply saddened by what has happened to Obama. I am a minister's daughter and my father is part of the Liberation Theology movement and a social justice activist. I have very strong feelings about this issue. I also do not subscribe to the "eye for an eye" philosophy. That's just me.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I left my Southern Baptist Church because of this kind of fundamentalism
The Clinton campaign deliberately set out to destroy a man's preacher.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. she has gone there for years. nice try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. too bad. truth hurts. get used to it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mntleo2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wingnuts will be wingnuts
...I feel the same way. Wright is villified for telling the freaking TRUTH and these fundemental wingnuts are ignored. They are freaking WINGNUTS, people. Fundamentalists of ANY religion KILL in the name of God by supporting war, they cause FAMINE in the name lf God to keep things for themselves, they cause POVERTY in the name of God and then blame the poor. Thney worship GREED in the name of God and pretend it does not exist in them, when in truth if any of them actually listened to their prophets ALL of them say that GREED KILLS. They cause SLAVERY AND RAPE in the name of God by subjugating women for their own use.

I have never heard Reverend Wright support these things, indeed he has railed against them and called them out. A true child of God, whether Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Jew does not support any of these things. PERIOD.

The Family should be held up for ridicule because they are rich WINGNUTS and the only "God" they worship in truth is M-O-N-E-Y.

Cat In Seattle
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R, Florida and Jeb Bush are mentioned...

I believe several Family members are also tied to Blackwell and Ohio corruption, as well as sponsors of voting machine companies. One can imagine how their version of God's Dominion comes to America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ivanwald and The Cedars...little known to the public.
Jesus Plus Nothing

"Ivanwald, which sits at the end of Twenty-fourth Street North in Arlington, Virginia, is known only to its residents and to the members and friends of the organization that sponsors it, a group of believers who refer to themselves as the Family. The Family is, in its own words, an invisible association, though its membership has always consisted mostly of public men. Senators Don Nickles (R., Okla.), Charles Grassley (R., Iowa), Pete Domenici (R., N.Mex.), John Ensign (R., Nev.), James Inhofe (R., Okla.), Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), and Conrad Burns (R., Mont.) are referred to as members, as are Representatives Jim DeMint (R., S.C.), Frank Wolf (R., Va.), Joseph Pitts (R., Pa.), Zach Wamp (R., Tenn.), and Bart Stupak (D., Mich.).

Regular prayer groups have met in the Pentagon and at the Department of Defense, and the Family has traditionally fostered strong ties with businessmen in the oil and aerospace industries. The Family maintains a closely guarded database of its associates, but it issues no cards, collects no official dues. Members are asked not to speak about the group or its activities."


The Cedars

There is a house just outside Washington D. C. called the Cedars; it is located across the Potomac River from Georgetown on 24th Street North in Arlington, and it is emblematic of everything that is WRONG with American Christianity. The mansion is named for the cedar trees that surround it. It is owned by a secretive organization called the International Christian Leadership Council (ICL), known today as the Fellowship Foundation. Lisa Getter of the Los Angeles Times reports that -

"... the mansion has been a private hideaway for world leaders, members of Congress, (etc.) ... Located on a quiet residential street, the $4.4-million estate called CEDARS sits at the highest point of the Potomac River, with spectacular views of Washington beyond the pool and tennis courts. It is owned by the Fellowship, a nonpartisan Christian group that sponsors the NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFAST."


Ivanwald is another Foundation mansion near the Cedars.

Lisa Getter went through the Fellowship archives at the Billy Graham Center. More on her article later. I think they are only accessible when 25 years old.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Jeff Sharlet's comments at Talk2Action in Frederick Clarkson's diary
are simply fascinating. He includes some of the things coming out in his new book.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2007/12/17/34033/248

Over at Daily Kos, a spirited debate took place when I posted this there. Jeff Sharlet turned up and offered some further background to skeptics:

As I wrote in the Harper's piece -- and as I document, with footnotes, at length in my forthcoming book -- the Fellowship is not praying for peace and love, tho they do like the stability of a corrupt foreign regime. Some highlights:

Fellowship forms to oppose progressive unions and the New Deal. First victory is booting progressive gov of Washington State and replacing w/ Arthur Langlie, an open admirer of fascism.

Fellowship recruits former Nazis and Nazi collaborators, such as Herman Abs -- "Hitler's Banker" -- into prayer cells with American politicians.

Fellowship inner circle members Senators Frank Carlson and Homer Capehart visit Haiti's Papa Doc Duvalier, declare him a Christian, and arrange for military aid.

Late 60s: Fellowship arranges "prayer cells" consisting of oilmen, American congressmen, and Suharto's legislators. Fellowship prayer cells unite to lobby for increased aid to Brazil's dictatorial generals.

Early 70s: Fellowship politicans lobby for overthrow of Salvador Allende.

1980s: Fellowship arranges a prayer cell for Siad Barre, lunatic dictator of Somalia, with Senator Chuck Grassley and defense contractors. Military aid for Somalia nearly doubles.

Recent years: Fellowship politicians team up to pass the Silk Road Act, simultaneously supporting Central Asian dictators and impinging on the ability of democratic movements to organize.

Yes, I know what "God-led government" means to most Christians--I've taught American religious history at NYU. That's not what the Fellowship means. Their history is one of supporting capitalism at any cost, strongman governments, and American imperial power. Doug Coe, the leader -- whom Hillary admires -- is on video stating that Hitler, Lenin, and Stalin are among the very few leaders who understood Jesus' methods, if not his message.

That ain't peace and love.


Author of THE FAMILY: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power (HarperCollins, Spring 08)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. wow. isn't hillary a progressive. Belonging to and working with
people who put hitler up as an example. She cannot be lower in my esteem if she tried.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
51. Papa Doc? A Christian?
The same one that used to claim that he was Baron Samedi (the Voudou loa of death) to scare the Haitians into submission? Screw that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. Guys, this and more will be thrown in our faces if HRC becomes the nominee.
Bah those duplicitous MSM retards. :mad:

Thanks for the information though. Shine the light brighter I say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. Absolutely amazing diary by a woman who heard Inhofe speak of Coe.
I just happened on this in a search. I am using the html version instead of the pdf. This woman heard Jim Inhofe speak about his ties to this group, and she had to research. She was very upset.

Another Jesus-In Politics

The debate at the Fountains was recorded and took place before the Tulsa County Republican Womens Club with around 100 people in attendance, including some city, county, state and federal officials. Congressman Tom Cole attended. He represents the district south of Oklahoma City and was a member of Governor Keatings cabinet where I had worked with him. He was there to help Kirk establish his Tulsa office. They were really pulling out the big guns that day to get Kirk in the Senate and to back off anyone who was considering supporting another candidate. As I was absorbing what Senator Inhofe had just said, he went on further and further with his and Kirks Christian credentials. He told the audience Kirk is with Billy Graham you know. He told of the years of work and service Kirk had given to Billy Graham. A woman sitting in the audience asked Jim to tell everyone about his own mission work in Africa. He said O.K. Ive found out that Kirk has also done this mission work. Hes part of it too.

Jim then said he goes to Africa and talks to African Kings. He told us I can get in places other people cant because I am a Senator, so I met with this African King and I just said I love you with the love of Jesus. The King started crying and I have been meeting with him ever since. Now I meet with other Kings regularly too.

Jim went on to say several years ago I met a man named Coe. He told me about the political philosophy of Jesus. Its in Acts 2. They went around breaking bread and eating with each other in the name of Jesus. So I go in to these African Kings in the name of Jesus and we eat together. I have been able to do a lot of things. He went on to talk about the humanitarian works that are involved.

..."I knew Senator Inhofe was nervous that he had said so much and that I would follow him speaking. When it was my turn to speak, I said I want to say first of all that the Republican Party is not the Church. The audience applauded and a preacher near the front, whose son-in-law was the party nominee for a State House seat, nodded his head and said Amen. I knew many of these people got it. This Jesus-God


She tells about her research into this group, and then says this:

"All of this is amazing to see. Hearing Jim Inhofe say he is fulfilling Acts 2 by using his power of office and the political philosophy of Jesus to sit down with African Kings, cry about Jesus and help send them millions of dollars in aid was most shocking to me. Kirk Humphries was defeated in the primary by his brother from The Fellowship Tom Coburn. Kirk said to a Tulsa television reporter Its hard to run against the Apostle Paul in reference to Tom Coburns public image as the best Christian ever to go to Washington."







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. What's wrong with develping relationships with African Kings?
Is this something that will hurt Hillary in the general?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. It's a great idea.
I have no problem with whatever Hillary wants.

I just thought the diary was interesting.

The religion in politics theme.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. ok...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. the book will be coming out this month.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I plan to order it.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
47. I'd think the "annointing" with cooking oil would ruin her pantsuits.
Unless they're Teflon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. Heh heh
Good one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
48. I agree with this statement by Jeff Sharlet, especially the part about it being fair to question
how deep her involvement goes with group and how many of their tenets she shares.

Kevin Drum quotes Jeff Sharlet

UPDATE: I just talked to Jeff Sharlet, author of the forthcoming book, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power. Although he says that Hillary Clinton's connection with the Fellowship (aka the "Family") is fairly shallow, he also thinks it's quite wrong to characterize it as merely "a collection of Bible study groups." Hillary's association with the Fellowship is no scandal, he says, but it is fair to question her about whether she accepts Doug Coe's particular brand of elite-centered, post-millennial theology. More here.

I haven't read the book, so I'll hold off on any further fire. It's coming in May, though, and I may have more about it then.


And this kind of "diplomacy"...does she accept it? There are questions on all sides when we question religious views and pastors and mentors.

From the LA Times in 2002:

The Fellowship, which sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast, quietly effects political change. It acts with the blessing of many in power.

The Fellowship also has brought controversial figures to Washington, where they have met with U.S. officials either at the prayer breakfast or other venues. Among them are former Salvadoran Gen. Carlos Eugenio Vides Casanova, who in July was found liable by a civil jury in Florida for the torture of thousands of civilians in the 1980s. He was invited to the 1984 prayer breakfast, along with Gen. Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, then the head of the Honduran armed forces. Alvarez, later linked to the CIA and a secret death squad, became an evangelical missionary before he was assassinated in 1989.

"The people that are involved in this association of people around the world are the worst and the best," Coe said. "Some are total despots. Some are totally religious. You can find what you want to find."


Another good question: Does she agree that this group with such access to leaders, such use of prayer cells...should be tax exempt? It is not just one building...it is growing.

Coe described Cedars as a place "committed to the care of the underprivileged, even though it looks very wealthy." He noted that people might say, "Why don't you sell a chandelier and help poor people?" Answering his own question, Coe said, "The people who come here have tremendous influence over kids." Private Fellowship documents indicate that Cedars was purchased so that "people throughout the world who carry heavy responsibilities could meet in Washington to think together, plan together and pray together about personal and public problems and opportunities."

The Fellowship likes to embrace the fallen. One minister recalled seeing former United Way chief William Aramony at Cedars the night Aramony learned he was facing criminal charges for embezzling charity money.

Coe described Cedars as a place open to anyone, including the poor, but acknowledged that the poor who most often use the estate are the young men and women from foreign countries who make the beds, tend the manicured gardens, serve gourmet meals and learn about the Fellowship.

The women live in a separate house across the street. The men live in another house called Ivanwald down the block. Several years after purchasing Cedars, members of the Fellowship began buying up houses in this affluent neighborhood.


"This thing grew organically," said Fellowship member Chris Halverson, son of Richard Halverson, the late Senate chaplain who was one of the Fellowship's leaders. "More and more people were needed to do the work of helping these senators."


It is quite fair to ask the degree of involvement, the degree of agreement with the secrecy of the group.

There is another house...I believe this is/was the one in which Bill Nelson, whose wife is a director of the group...lives.

Church and State
A four-story townhouse on C Street, two blocks from the Capitol, is owned by a sister organization of the Fellowship, and is registered with the IRS and the District of Columbia as a church. It pays no taxes. Yet eight members of Congress live there.

"We sort of don't talk to the press about the house," said Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), who lives there. The 8,000-square-foot detached townhouse has 12 bedrooms, nine bathrooms, five living rooms (including one with a big-screen TV), four dining rooms, three offices, a kitchen--and a small chapel. "The C Street property is a church," said Chip Grange, an attorney for the Fellowship. "It is zoned as a church. There are prayer meetings, fellowship meetings, evangelical meetings," he said. "Our mission field is Capitol Hill."


We want our government open and under scrutiny, not secretive. Asking questions is fair game.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Any Democrat seeking the Party's presidential nomination...
Edited on Fri May-02-08 10:51 PM by speedoo
who has any kind of relationship to Coe's group, and who has not been asked about it, has not been sufficiently vetted.

Not even close.

In addition, any Senator related to this group, whether it's Clinton, Inhofe, Brownback... any of them... has to be investigated as to what that relationship is, and that should be publicly discussed.

This is very troubling to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:50 PM
Original message
Another dupe...annoying. Sorry about that
Edited on Fri May-02-08 10:51 PM by madfloridian
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. I definitely agree.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. My favorite part of the Mother Jones...
Edited on Fri May-02-08 10:53 PM by stillcool47
article:

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group.

***Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.***


-----------------------
The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by Godleaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.
-------------------------------
Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobssay, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-3.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
53. Strange bedfellows, indeed
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gmudem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. K and R!
This is some very creepy stuff that people need to wake up to. If Clinton is a serious member of this group than I think being part of the same group as General Suharto is just a bit worse than knowing Rev. Wright.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
56. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
57. She's a member of the family? OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the Jesus Plus Nothing article... Harpers..
http://harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reddconsole Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
58. This is just
a modern twist on the "If Kennedy becomes President, America will be run from the Vatican" paranoia of the early Sixties - and from a supposed Democrat, too.

You are desperate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. No, it was her campaign using Wright that was desperate...this is just vetting
all our candidates as she said they should be vetted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reddconsole Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. And despicable
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
59. Kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
61. Back to the top
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
63. I had several of the most fucked up experiences of my life in an AOG church
A lot of "power" in that church, usually wielded badly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
64. coe is white-wright is black
that is all that needs to be said why no one cares about coe`s master race ranting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Jun 18th 2021, 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC