Things I Wish We Had Written #2 - The Confluence for Hillary

[Texas Hill Country]

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/things-we-wish-we%e2%80%99d-written-case-2/#more-696



Joanne Parrent at No Quarter must have been listening in to a conversation with one of my sisters:

A Family Fight or a License to Hate?

When I asked my sister why she didn’t want to vote for the first viable female candidate for President – and a brilliant person as well – she told me that she “hates” Hillary Clinton. Stunned at the intensity of her feelings, I asked her “Why?” She proceeded to give me some reasons that I found startlingly similar to the Obama campaign talking points:

1. Sister: Hillary voted for the war in Iraq.

Me: Actually, she voted to give the President the authorization to go to war so the threat of war would force Saddam Hussein to allow UN inspectors back into Iraq, which it did. Bush, not Hillary, then decided to stop those inspections before they were done and invade Iraq. (I sent her an article in the Huffington Post by anti-war activist, former Ambassador and husband of Valerie Plame, Joe Wilson, about this. Joseph Wilson, Huffington Post)

Sister: I don’t have time for this. She still voted for the war, and Obama was against the war.

Me: Obama didn’t have to make that tough decision. He wasn’t in the Senate. He wasn’t representing the state of New York that had been devastated on 9/11. He just gave a speech at an anti-war rally in Chicago, in his very safe, very liberal State Senate District. How much courage did that take?

Sister: Look, I’m inspired by Obama. Democrats have the right to be inspired too, you know.

Me: Okay, you like the guy. I am not crazy about him, myself. He seems like a snake oil salesman, selling hope and change. But I don’t “hate” him, and you still haven’t answered my question about why you “hate” Hillary.

2. Sister: Hillary is just like Bill Clinton. She’s too moderate and they both “triangulate”. We don’t need another Clinton. I’m tired of Bushes and Clintons. We need something new. (To her credit she didn’t use the epithet “Billary” which may have been too sexist for her. Or she may have just been embarrassed to say that to me.)

Me: Have you seen Hillary’s policy proposals? They are very similar to Obama’s. In some cases, particularly her health care proposal, they are more progressive than his. (I sent her one of economist Paul Krugman’s articles from the New York Times on why Hillary’s health care plan which will cover everyone is better than Obama’s, which will only cover children. )

~snip~

What is astonishing about what the Obama campaign has accomplished is that it has built so much of its support on this sexist, negative and inaccurate portrayal of Hillary Clinton, while at the same time successfully spreading the myth that it is the Clinton campaign that is negative. And the Obama campaign couldn’t have done this without the willing participation of Obama, himself, which belies the claim that he is a “unifying” figure and that he practices “new politics”, let alone that he brings people together. In fact, he is bringing people to his campaign by scapegoating and demonizing the “other” – the old, traditional, divisive, bitchy, lying, politics-as-usual Hillary Clinton.

Yet, in reality, Hillary is not only not traditional: she is, in fact, a very unusual figure in American politics – a First Lady who became a Senator and then ran for President. How many of those have we had? She also is not only not divisive but she has shown, as a Senator, that she can work with people who hated her and her husband when he was President.

She has healed relationships that one would expect could never be healed.




snip - more at the link

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. I can contrive a "conversation" between me and a Clinton supporter where I come out on top.

But I won't because it would be stupid and no one would believe it anymore than I believe the pile of crap you linked to.

Speaking of Krugman, I hear tell he doesn't care much for Hillary McSame's gax tax idea.

[Jed Dilligan]

2. She gambled on the neocon's war and lost.

I don't hate her for that, she's just a politician and not very smart. The vote was based on the assumption that this war would be a success, not something to run against, this year. She had reasons to think that; all her husband's military adventures were successful in the eyes of the public. I, measly Jed Dilligan, knew better, though. I don't want a President whose crystal ball is worse than mine.

I admit some prejudice against her because of her privileged background, her unlikeable personality (in my view), and my disagreement with many of Bill's policies (which she claims as her own). But I didn't start feeling really, really negative (almost to the point of hatred) until the last few weeks. Hammering Ayers, Wright, Hamas, Farrakhan have more to do with that than her war vote.

[Avalux]

3. Poor attempt to paint Hillary as the victim.

She is far from it. My own negative perception of Hillary was formed long before Obama ran against her for the Democratic nomination; it was formed from watching her and listening to her through the years. Hillary Clinton is a liar who instead of making decisions based on what she knows is right, makes them based on political calculation. She has become a Senator and is running for president because her last name is Clinton, not through her own merit.

[Texas Hill Country]

12. and you dont think that the constant anti-clinton propoganda influence you at all?????

are you really that sure????

[Avalux]

19. I'm sure.

I've never thought her sincere and her deliberate question-dodging behavior has bothered me as well.

Has nothing to do with Obama or this campaign.

[Lucky 13]

20. Amen

She's shown her character in the last few months... and it's not pretty.

[cali]

4. Parent is a fucking sleaze artist. Hillary Clinton voted to give

chimp a blank check for war. And that's precisely what Leahy said in his fantastic speech against the IWR. He warned his fellow dems about the unconstitionality and moral bankruptcy of voting for it. He beseeched them not to vote for it. And he's 10x the man that Wilson is and knows much more about the vote.

this article is an utter deceitful piece of shit. All one can expect from all too many hillfans.

[Indenturedebtor]

5. Huh what was that?

I couldn't hear you over the sniper fire, the lies, the smear, the condescension, the sound of campaign donations burning, the screams of the Democratic Party being stabbed in the back, the intimidation of SD's, the praise for McCain, the "I take him at his word that he's not a muslim", and so on.

It's very noisy in here with all the garbage coming out of HRC and her campaign. I don't hate her because I'm uninformed. Unfortunately I hate her because she's worthy of hatred.

[paulk]

6. it's interesting, really

a friend of mine who is a self described card carrying leftist - supports Obama because Hillary is a "bitch". That's his sole reason for disliking her. My father in law's brother, a life long Republican, says the same. If you printed out the words of the two without an identifier, you wouldn't be able to tell who said what.

[Texas Hill Country]

10. exactly... they have totally bought into the RW talking points... its amazing.

[bigbrother05]

7. We got a first son that was a governor

who is now president, is that good for us?

[Mooney]

8. Hillary voted for the war.

It's still true.

[Texas Hill Country]

11. no... she... didnt... vote... for... the... war!

[Mooney]

17. Yes... She... Did!

What do you think the "W" in "I.W.R." stands for? Wrestling?

Dress it up any way you like. Hillary voted for the war. Get used to it.

[guyanakoolaid]

9. I like how Hillary's plan to enrich health insurance companies is now "progressive"

:eyes:

Also, "She didn't vote for war, she voted to give the President the authorization to go to war" is not an argument that's going to win many people over.

[paulk]

18. what's even more amazing is how not having a mandated

system is now "progressive".

I guess the new "progressive" is really the old "libertarian".

[avrdream]

13. Nice discussion.

The sister's reactions seem quite typical of a certain group of supporters on this board.

[rock]

14. Very nicely put

It's amazing how many people still insist that it was "vote for war" rather than a vote for authorization to be used for diplomatic pressure. * chose war against the intent of the measure.

[Texas Hill Country]

16. i find it incredibly amazing and totally disappointing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Meh.

1. Sister: Hillary voted for the war in Iraq.

Me: Actually, she voted to give the President the authorization to go to war so the threat of war would force Saddam Hussein to allow UN inspectors back into Iraq, which it did. Bush, not Hillary, then decided to stop those inspections before they were done and invade Iraq. (I sent her an article in the Huffington Post by anti-war activist, former Ambassador and husband of Valerie Plame, Joe Wilson, about this. Joseph Wilson, Huffington Post)

Knowing full well that Bush was going to go to war. Knowing full well that voters wanted to go to war.


Sister: I don’t have time for this. She still voted for the war, and Obama was against the war.

Me: Obama didn’t have to make that tough decision. He wasn’t in the Senate. He wasn’t representing the state of New York that had been devastated on 9/11. He just gave a speech at an anti-war rally in Chicago, in his very safe, very liberal State Senate District. How much courage did that take?

Considering people (such as Clinton) were labeling anybody who spoke out against the war as unpatriotic and hateful towards the troops- considerable

"Sister: Look, I’m inspired by Obama. Democrats have the right to be inspired too, you know.

Me: Okay, you like the guy. I am not crazy about him, myself. He seems like a snake oil salesman, selling hope and change. But I don’t “hate” him, and you still haven’t answered my question about why you “hate” Hillary."

Actually, the sister just gave a damn good reason.

"2. Sister: Hillary is just like Bill Clinton. She’s too moderate and they both “triangulate”. We don’t need another Clinton. I’m tired of Bushes and Clintons. We need something new. (To her credit she didn’t use the epithet “Billary” which may have been too sexist for her. Or she may have just been embarrassed to say that to me.)

Me: Have you seen Hillary’s policy proposals? They are very similar to Obama’s. In some cases, particularly her health care proposal, they are more progressive than his. (I sent her one of economist Paul Krugman’s articles from the New York Times on why Hillary’s health care plan which will cover everyone is better than Obama’s, which will only cover children. )"

Have you seen her gas tax "holiday." Taken right from McCain. Just like her anti-Obama rhetoric. Now that's some snakeoil salesmanship right there.

Frankly, it's pretty easy to see which of the two sisters is smarter.