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Popol Vuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:28 PM
Original message
War Hero? Meet the Real John McCain:
Read how the Vietnamese protected and promoted McCain and how in return he danced to their tune. McCain was on Vietnamese radio so often he was tagged as "the PW Songbird"

http://www.counterpunch.org/

I am not subscribed to CounterPunch so I don't have their full story on this, but, sounds very interesting. I wonder how the right-wing pundits will spin this as not an issue after they trashed John Kerry and John Murtha?
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Probably not a good tact against some who risked their life serving our country.
Especially since he's running against two candidates whom neither served in the military. There are better ways of going after McCain.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. McCain Did Not Serve Me Or The Country
How did he supposedly serve you and the nation?

I suppose you could call bombing the living hell out of civilians with napalm is service to the "nation".

Do you think the soldiers sent to Iraq are also doing a wonderful thing for our nation?
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Will Americans ever come to grips with the wholesale slaughter, carnage,
and wanton destruction this nation has been willing to inflict on other peoples on their own soil for basically ideological reasons, like being afraid commie hoards will swoop across some artificial line drawn by the west. I seem to remember that not so long after the US tucked in its tail and left Vietnam, the Chinese commies did swarm into Vietnam only to get sent home with their tails tucked in too. One would think Americans, of all people, would be supportive of a people trying to gain their own independence, but I seem to recall someone in the Eisenhower Administration advocating the US nuke the Vietnamese at DBP in 1954, a lunatic idea Ike mercifully quashed. :shrug:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree, it reminds me too much of those purple
bandages against Kerry and what was done to Cleland...leave the hero bashing to the reTHUGS.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Huh?
"leave the hero bashing to the reTHUGS."

So who is bashing a genuine war hero?

I really hope you don't consider right-wingnuts like McCain to be heros.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm not going to debate whether he's a real "hero"
or not but "hero" bashing is a bad tactic and should be left to the reTHUGs who excel at that kind of thing.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. For god's sake, he was a POW.
To win you have to employ tactics that will help your candidate, not hurt them. You have to be able to put your opinion of McCain aside and focus on how he is perceived and how to best attack that perception. Neither Clinton nor Obama are dumb enough to attack McCain's military record.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It worked for George Bush and he didn't serve either
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. If you want to be Bush-like, go for it.
But I'd still argue that it would hurt more than help to have either Hillary or Obama surrogates going after McCain's service record. If you want McCain to win, that would be a good tact to employ.
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Secret_Society Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't like the tactic of going after his service...
I think it is terrible politically and I remember that McCain defended Kerry when swiftboats came out.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. There will be 527s attacking McCain on his Vietnam record in the fall
You can count on that. I don't agree with it, but it is indeed going to happen.

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Hansel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Yep. It's going to come from the right.
They've already been calling in to talk radio shows saying he set a ship on fire and killed a bunch of people.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. I heard one of those calls
They are all set to go. A lot of them are Vietnam Vets who are convinced McCain was a collaborator.

McCain might be a bit more forceful about the 527s when folks from the Right start attacking him.

IMHO the Democrats should have nothing to do with this.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Just because you were a prisoner in a time of war doesn't make you a hero.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 06:46 PM by L0oniX
My bet is the McBastard squealed secrets like a stuck pig to stop all the water boarding or whatever he went through. Rather than protest and evade the draft or move to Canada, he went a fought in the other illegal war and got caught. That is not what I call a hero. Did he save someones life? No. He bombed the hell out of innocent people as a matter of collateral damage. :grr:
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bbinacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. He refused early release. n/t
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I never understood that logic either. POW = War hero, NOT
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nyccitizen Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. He was a war hero because he refused early release...

You can criticize the man's politics, and rightfully so, but criticizing his legitimately heroic service to this country is petty and small. Republicans did the same to Kerry 4 years ago, let's not stoop to their level.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I didn't criticize jack. I said that being a POW, in my book, does not make you a war hero. PERIOD
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Mc Senile is no hero and you try to stop free speech just because some jack asses criticized Kerry?
Who gives a f*ck what them ass carrots did? I have a right to my opinion and if you want me to shut up then you are stooping to Bush's level. BTW welcome to my ignore list.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. Comments like this are no better than Swift Vets
As we learned in 1996 with Bob Dole, you can be an honorable man who served his country well, and still not be the best man to be president.

Attacks and misrepresentations like this are disgusting.

McCain has so many failing as a candidate, there is no good reason to get down in the gutter with the Swift Vets.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. If you like illegal wars why don't you sign up? oh and welcome to my ignore list.
Your attack is what is disgusting!
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Too funny.
nt
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Keep it up...
...if you want McCain elected. Shit like this will backfire.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. This stuff is not coming
from Democrats. There is a group of Right Wing douchebags who hate McCain. It's pretty tacky.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Exactly n/t
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. I will criticize McCain's political stance, but there is no way in hell that I will
criticize his military service nor will I be silent if anyone does it.
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nyccitizen Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Debunked. This is the same smear GWB supporters push-polled in 2000.

Don't use them here.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do you folks forget
the republican smear of Kerry in 04, already? Sorry, anything's fair.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Do you forget that John McCain came to Kerry's defense over these smears?
McCain Criticizes Ad Attacking Kerry on Vietnam War Record

By Jim VandeHei and Mary Fitzgerald
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, August 6, 2004; Page A01

ST. LOUIS, Aug. 5 -- Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) rushed to John F. Kerry's defense Thursday, condemning a new ad claiming the Democratic presidential nominee lied about his military record and betrayed his Vietnam comrades by protesting the war.

McCain, who was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, called on President Bush to condemn the ad, which was financed in part by a major Republican Party donor in Texas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42740-2004Aug5.html
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yeah, I remember , granny.
His defense lasted about five minutes. Then, he denied considering the VP slot. This guy doesn't know whether Christ was crucified or shot in a poker game.
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RememberWellstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. He was a POW, not a war hero
IMO, not like the Kerrys or Murtha. I think it's ahuge stretch to portray him as some Rambo over in VN saving lives and killing VC. It did'nt happen.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's interesting that some of the respondants to this thread object to the extreme left opinions.
With out the extreme left the party will continue to move to the right. Korea, Vietnam and Iraq are all immoral wars. They were and are wrong to participate in. Unless another country attacks this country there is no justification for war. I have the right to speak up for peace. Worship of war and its participants is a blood thirst game.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I think most of them are rejecting what they see as
a losing tactic. One that could backfire, even. I think that the focus here is (and should be) on winning the election, not on winning some idealogical purity contest.

We can start pulling to the left (and out of Iraq, and away from war as an instrument of foreign policy) after we get the White House back. If we don't win the election, it's no left we'll be heading, but straight down.
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