Why does America hate Ann Coulter so much? It's SEXISM!!!!!!

[stevenleser]

The astounding leap of logic that Hillary supporters always seem to make is that people hate her because she is a woman. It cannot be that they dont like her personality. It cannot be that they think she is a liar. It cannot be that they dont like some of the ways she has handled certain issues or her stances on them.

What about Ann Coulter? Aside from around 20% of the hard right Rethuglican base, there are a lot of people who hate her. Is it because she is a woman? How about Lucianne Goldberg? Why do we all hate her? Is it because we are sexists? Barbara Olson before she died? Linda Tripp? Kay Bailey Hutchinson? Barbara Bush? Mary Matalin? Mona Charen? Kate O'Beirne If you dislike any of them you are a sexist? So, tell me, Hillary Supporters, you love all of the aforementioned women?

Or, how about someone on the left. Cynthia McKinney. If you dislike her you are a sexist?

So, it is OK to hate a man because of his personality or his stances on the issues, but not OK to hate a woman for those things? Isn't that misandery?

[stray cat]

1. Actually some conservatives really really like Ann Coulter - good thing their not sexist

unlike the dems (please note sarcasm)

[stevenleser]

2. Excellent point. Illustrates this silliness even more!!!

Well done!

[cliffordu]

36. What about the professional wrestler Chyna??

Do conservatives like HER??

[stevenleser]

40. ROFLMAO

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

:rofl:

:yourock:


!!!!!

[joeybee12]

3. Do you actually read stuff here or make things up to post?

There is sexism everywhere, but NEVER have I or anyone said that it is entirely due to sexism why people don't like Hilary...there can be other reasons, but your post seems to completely disavow that sexism plays a role in some people's decision.

Shirllar, bitch, witch, cackles...it goes on and on and try and tell me the people who make comments like that aren't sexist.

[stevenleser]

7. I was just going to ask you the same thing.

Do you not see all the same things written about all the conservative pundits I mentioned ever since DU's inception? Almost never a single whiff of "Oh, those comments make the post sexist"

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pisces]

4. Hillarys sexism argument is BS. Ask all those young college girls what they think of Hillary.

Crying and playing the victim to get the women votes is gross and disgusting sexist politics. As a woman I am offended by these poor me tactics. Calling herself a girl that is being picked on by the boys????? How disgusting is that?? Also a play on words trying to imply the racist term "boy" to Obama. She is foul and does not represent me as a business woman.

[goldcanyonaz]

14. And, racism also does NOT exist. Thanks!

[stevenleser]

33. Poster said HIllary sexism doesnt exist, not Sexism doesnt exist. You are confusing an individual

example with an absolute generalization. I am sure you did that by mistake, right?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. I'm not about "hating" anyone, so I can say that the minute these women are called

"whores" "bitches" "C word" "sluts" "skanks" etc, none of which you see applied to men unless you're REALLY insulting them, then it's sexism.

Again, since I don't indulge in hate, I can't speak to that. I don't like what the women you listed have to say, nor their divisive and destructive tactics on the public airwaves.

With the exception of Rep. McKinney, I :loveya: her, a brave woman.

[stevenleser]

6. Speak to the Hillary supporters. They are the one who used the 'hate' word. I tailored my post to

show how silly their post was and used the same terminology.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. Huh? I'm a Sen. Clinton supporter and I have NEVER used that word. I like

Sen. Obama. Why are you trying to be divisive?

on edit, weren't you asking if it's "sexist" to "hate" the women you listed? And, I responded to that question. I don't understand why you replied the way you did, aren't you interested in understanding the language of sexism?

[stevenleser]

18. Here is a link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5704006&mesg_id=5704006

Next?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. Now I'm REALLY confused. I guess you weren't actually asking for responses.

I'm not even sure where this discussion is going, it's making very little sense. Actually, I though you posited an intriguing point of view worthy of further discussion, but that appears to be out of the question.

[stevenleser]

27. Is addressing your counterpoints out of the question then?

You said Hillary supporters dont hate or some such thing as an objection to the wording of my OP. The link I provided was to show you that my OP was in direct response to another about Hillary that suggested that the reason people 'hate' Hillary is because she is a woman.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. No, I said I don't hate. We're individuals, after all. I thought you were asking

about whether disagreeing with or disliking women who are aligned with the RW is sexism. Although, I'm not certain why you included Rep McKinney in that group. :shrug:

So, that was what I answered.

[stevenleser]

31. I included McKinney to illustrate that it doesnt matter the particular bent

McKinney is probably slightly to the left of most here (and please dont anyone nitpick me on that since it isnt central to my point). The OP of the other thread used the word 'hate' and MANY HRC supporters jumped on board with that as part of the thesis.

I dont think that people who are using the words that are now being asserted as sexist have any intention at all of being sexist. If I can use a racial example. At some point, the term 'Colored' became racist. Some people obviously didnt get the memo on that for some time and continued to use the word to describe African Americans. Does that mean when they were doing so that they were racist?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. I appreciate the non snarky response. I am having some difficulty

pulling together the two issues, I see them as distinct.

If you're asking why there is "hatred" of Sen. Clinton, vis a vis the post you referenced, I think that particular post does provide some illumination. They are those who loudly and often proclaim to HATE her, and that article tries to explore that issue.

If you're asking about the other women who you referenced, and whether "hating" them is sexist, I tried to separate out the emotion ("hate") from whether disagreeing with or disliking them is rooted in sexism.

As far as whether "colored" is racist, my first response is yes, but I'd like to hear more, since you reference situations in which you think that might not be the case.

[stevenleser]

38. They are distinct.

There are two issues.
#1 - Is hate/dislike/non support or whatever you want to call it of Hillary Clinton automatically sexist.

I think normal and level-headed folks can dispense with this rather easily but you would be surprised to see how many HRC supporters are out on GD-P trying to assert that if you dont support her, you MUST be sexist.


#2 - Is use of the language "Bitch, witch, etc." automatically sexist.

Until HRC's campaign, I never heard of such an assertion. My example of the use of the word "Colored" is this. At some point in either the 60's or 70's, I think, the use of that word to describe African Americans became racist. The word to use was 'Black'. Some folks didnt get the memo right away. If a year or two later, someone used the word to describe someone, that didnt mean they were being racist. By now, of course, we all know better. Anyone using the word 'Colored' to describe someone is a bigot.

Fast forward to now. Until a few weeks ago, I had never heard the idea that calling someone a bitch or witch was considered sexist. The idea was so foreign to me that I spent some time fighting the suggestion. It also seemed a little to convenient that the words became bigoted in the middle of a political campaign. Finally, I gave in and stopped using the words. But they are still raised as "obvious examples of sexism against Hillary Clinton". I disagree. I think to a lot of folks, this is the first time they are hearing that those words are verboten and mean something bigoted.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

43. Thanks for the well thought out response. My only disagreement, is, as a woman, if I've been called

a "bitch" or "witch" I've considered it derogatory and sexist, and have throughout my entire life. It is usually said in anger and frustration and it is name calling designed to be hurtful and degrading. As a woman, that has been my consistent view. And, you don't see them used against a man, unless it's intended as a really nasty put down.

Kudos for you to coming to recognize it, now. And, I see your point of view, you really expressed it well.

Thanks for the discussion, fellow Dem.

:-)

[ananda]

8. Re hate of Hillary Clinton.

What is sexist about the hate directed towards
Hillary Clinton is the charge on it and the
language.

To make this sexism perceivable, I would say
that John McCain is far worse as a candidate and
as a potential president than Clinton is.

Now, if you look at the way people write and talk
about McCain, as compared to Clinton, you'll see
a clear difference in the charge, the emotionalism,
the language, and the frequency of attacks.. meaning
that those things are far less intense than they are
for Hillary Clinton.

I have issues with Clinton. I am appalled by her
hawkishness and association with corporatism and NAFTA.
But I don't hate her, and I appreciate what she can
do in some arenas such as women's rights and other
social programs.

I also have issues with Obama. He has corporate and
lobbyist links; doesn't appreciate the issues of women
the way Clinton does; and very likely is a bit elitist.

However, both Clinton and Obama are exponentially better
than McCain would be, and either candidate will get my
vote in November.

Sue

[stevenleser]

10. So, you are happy as long as we call both McCain and Clinton

F*&%ing A&&ho&*(

As long as we do that all day, Hillary supporters should have no beef. Right?

[dsc]

9. I am not too sure you wish to use the criticism levelled at her

as an example of criticism untinged by sexism and for that matter transphobia. Do I really need to cite the repeated threads about "Ann the man" and "Adam's apples"?

[Yael]

15. So use Condi Rice as the example

I don't know how tall you are, but apparently the point of the post came in about 2" higher...

[dsc]

23. No the point was that there is NO ELEMENT OF SEXISM

when it comes to any criticism of Clinton. The poster used Ann Coulter as an example. And as a gay member of this board who has repeatedly protested exactly the conduct I mentioned in my post, I find it relevent.

[stevenleser]

28. No, that is not the point and my OP never said any such thing. My OP addressed the OPPOSITE absolute

that is that any criticism of Hillary MUST be sexism.

[Yael]

32. Sounds to me like a case of finding what you are looking for

while the rest of us read it in context.

[stevenleser]

16. Actually, yes I do. When that was done, almost no one said ANYTHING.

It's the hypocrisy of this whole thing. For years I have seen that kind of stuff said against Coulter. It was RARE, VERY, VERY, rare when anyone objected on a Democratic or Liberal discussion forum at all on any grounds at all let alone diversity grounds. And, quite frankly, it is the GLBT folks who probably ought to be more upset about the things you mentioned rather than the women's rights folks.

I would agree in principle that no slur or epithet against ANY group should probably be used in politically mocking or excoriating them. But this was all of a sudden a big deal when Hillary ran for President. THAT is a problem.

If I were a Hillary supporter and wanted to be honest and non-hypocritical about this whole thing and wanted to object to some of the language, my posts would say something along the following:

"I know you aren't a sexist and not intending to be one, but that is how that kind of language could be construed. Please use something non gender specific."

I wouldnt go around saying "Ohh, you are a sexist and there is SOOOOOO much sexism around about Hillary!"

[dsc]

20. that is flat out, gold carat, false

Gay and transgendered members of this forum have repeatedly complained about this and finally have gotten the forum to the point that those threads get removed. It was a long, drawn out, campaign that we engaged in with little to no support, or apparently notice.

[stevenleser]

25. Well, apparently, I am not the only one who didnt notice. See the response further down

#22 I think.

I applaud you for the efforts on that score. But it still doesnt justify the fact that every dislike of Hillary is painted as sexism. If you can explain that to me, I'll consider you Einstein and Socrates wrapped into one.

[lastliberalintexas]

59. Perhaps I can then

Do you see any difference in the following?

Clinton is such a corporatist! She wants to reform health care by forcing people to buy insurance. Stupid! Doesn't she f*cking realize insurance is the problem?

Shillery is such a c*nt! She wants to reform health care by forcing people to but insurance. Bitch! Can't that cackling whore realize insurance is the problem?




By the by, this also applies to certain people's criticisms of Obama. I have seen a few posts which at the very least implied racist connotations. Thankfully, the mods have taken a much stricter stance towards those posts. I just wish the sexism was treated as harshly. :shrug:

[stevenleser]

61. While there is an obvious difference, until a few weeks ago, I didnt realize women considered those

terms sexist. The 'c' word has always been taught to me to be completely disgusting and uncouth to use. So, anyone using it would seem that way to me. But sexist? That would not have come to mind, no. Nor, by the way would male-specific insults have seemed sexist. I've never thought the war for gender equality was about wordplay like this. A local DEC Chair was once corrected in front of me because he asked if anyone was available to "Man" a booth. That is the closest I have seen to any of this. Quite frankly, that particular episode left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

I use the word colored in several examples in this thread. Some Hillary supporters incorrectly try to use the example of the 'n' word, but the problem with that example is that we all knew about the 'n' word. This stuff about bitch/witch/etc. being sexist is completely new to me and probably many here. My attempts to fight for gender equality (and diversity in general) has been about things like making sure when I interviewed someone or wrote a review on someone, I was actively making sure that none of my evaluations of their abilities had anything to do with any minority class to which they belonged, etc.

[Triana]

11. I don't like her attitude and her TACTICS

ie: how she has conducted her campaign.

I didn't like it when george bu$h and Karl Rove did it either. Same crap.

It has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with behavior - and that kind of behavior - taken to the extremes she and the Repubes have taken it to, is unacceptable to me.

[0007]

17. I rate this article as a -10.

Egads!! misandery???????

[stillcool]

19. Where is George Carlin when you need him?

[asjr]

21. Maybe it is because we have not

figured out which sex she is.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Yeah. Comparing Hillary To Coulter Isn't Too Big A Sign Of An Ignoramus Or Anything...

[ruggerson]

45. You're being far too generous

[retread]

50. The OP did NOT compare Hillary to Coulter. But, you knew that didn't you. n/t

[stevenleser]

60. Is that what Ignored said? Sheesh.

Ignore button, I do love it so...

[EmilyAnne]

26. Its not SEXISM, its SPECIESISM! People hate her because she's a HORSE!

[nebula]

29. They play the gender card every chance they get

...it shows you how pathetic they are.

[stevenleser]

34. Well, their tactics are pathetic, that's for sure.

It is so obviously incorrect that they lose a lot of credibility.

[Tribetime]

37. Is ann even human, or from another planet

She's like a robot only able to accept right wing talking points. Anything else doe's not compute.

[stevenleser]

42. She has definitely lost her humanity. I wrote this article...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_080114_coulter_sheds_any_re.htm

talking about that very thing.

[Mz Pip]

39. Skankism

not sexism.

[stevenleser]

44. I hope that is an offhanded reference to "The Ladies Man" movies... (n/t)

[Mz Pip]

47. I'm talking about

Ann Coulter, not anyone else.

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. what a shame. You set up straw arguments to knock them down

so you can continue to deny that sexism has any part in this campaign. All the while reinforcing it with language that minimizes women, reduces their value to their appearance or equates them with animals.

And then shouts "Racism!" from the rooftops when someone suggests that Obama's elitist statement is elitist.

I have always wondered about men who deny that sexism exists. What is wrong with you?

[Jade Fox]

46. Do you know Clinton personally?

You can't hate someone personally if you don't know them. You're simply projecting feelings on to a public figure. That's why such responses reek of sexism.

And, no, I don't support Clinton as the Dem nominee.

[stevenleser]

48. Please note that in nowhere in my OP did I use the first person singular pronoun.

Thanks

[frickaline]

49. I really don't understand the confusion here ...

Its one thing to say you don't agree with or don't like someone.

Its another thing to use gender slurs as a result of your opinion.

[stevenleser]

52. See response #44 above

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5704852#5705612

Thanks

[frickaline]

54. you dont think bitch and witch are sexist terms?

let me define why I believe they are and you can vote again:

Witch: Witches were women wrongly accused of witchcraft and burned at the stake in Salem, MA.

Bitch: Bitches are female dogs. Most people find it an insult to be called a 'dog' and to have gender applied makes this a sexist, derogatory term.

as for : #1 - Is hate/dislike/non support or whatever you want to call it of Hillary Clinton automatically sexist.

No, dislike of Hillary doesn't make anyone sexist. However, expressing your dislike in sexist terms DOES.

[stevenleser]

55. No, I never thought of them as sexist terms until I first heard someone assert that they were a few

weeks ago, and as I said in the mini thread ending in response #44, I initially fought the assertion because it seemed too convenient that I was being told this for the first time in the middle of this campaign for the nomination by those who were seeking to defend their candidate against the use of those terms.

Let's face it, a lot of what you hear in the middle of a campaign is bullshite.

So, to answer you and basically say the same thing I have been saying multiple times in this thread, if you dont know that a term is bigoted and you use it, then you are not being bigoted.

[frickaline]

57. hmm interesting take...

I suppose if you are totally unaware of a word's bigoted connotation then it isn't bigotry.

[MethuenProgressive]

51. The Obama and McCain followers don't hate her.

HillHaters flock together.

[madmom]

53. I remember reading a thread on this site last week that said that Obama and Hillary are

so much alike in there politics that the only reason you would NOT vote for Obama is because you are racist.That made about as much sense as this post. NONE!

[stevenleser]

56. I cannot follow what you are saying. Can you clarify please?

Thanks

[madmom]

62. There was a thread on here a week or so ago where the poster said:

Obama and Hillary are so similar in their politics, that the only reason one would not vote for Obama was because they were racists, because the only difference is he is black so that must be the reason one is not a supporter of Obama. Does that help? Hope so. ;-)

[lastliberalintexas]

58. Some of the names used to describe her, however...

I don't mind someone disagreeing with people on actual policy and opinions. What I do mind is people using sexist language to deride the person with whom they disagree. What I do mind is people using racist language to deride the person with whom they disagree. What I even mind is people using classis, ageist* and otherwise bigoted language to deride the person with whom they disgree.

I think most Clinton and Obama supporters agree on that, I just think a few either don't understand the history of the verbage they are using or are trolls.




* Yes, even ageist insults used against McCain. After all, President Carter is quite old, but I would vote for him in a heartbeat. :)

[wrando]

63. ridiculous

To compare Hillary with this group kills your argument right out of the box.

bill from ct