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HuffPost: "SuperDelegates tell voters to go screw themselves. We'll vote however we want." Huh?

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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:55 PM
Original message
HuffPost: "SuperDelegates tell voters to go screw themselves. We'll vote however we want." Huh?
Why is Huffington running such a misleading AP piece of crap? The headline does not even remotely reflect the actual findings..

Since there are 250 remaining UNcommitted Supers, and yet only 117 even agreed to participate in this anonymous charade of
a "poll". Of the 117 polled (only 49% of the total uncommitted) 33% say "electability" will determine their vote (which
could mean either Clinton or Obama, since many believe Obama's more electable) and 20% say they will cast their vote based
on either primary/caucus outcomes and/or "who won their state or congressional district in the primary or caucus."

This means that even if only 40% of the Supers basing their vote on "electability" have figured out that Obama's more electable,
and 60% go with Hillary, Obama gets 47 SuperDel votes and Hillary gets 70; but then Obama automatically also gets pretty much ALL
of the other 20% (or 23 count) who say they'll honor the voters in primaries, caucuses and such. So even best case for Hillary,
it's still a net wash, with Hillary getting 70 and Obama getting 70.

How's that for a real NON-story?

The author is transparently either making a huge stretch to "create" a story, or a Hillary shill trying to set the stage
for Clinton last-minute strong-arming of Supers. Disgusting..

***************************************************
Undecided superdelegates don't feel bound by primaries
STEPHEN OHLEMACHER | April 20, 2008 03:15 PM EST |

WASHINGTON — Many of the Democratic superdelegates who are still undecided say the most important factor in their decision is simple _ they just want a winner in November.

Problem is, after nearly four months of primaries and caucuses in 46 states, territories and the District of Columbia, they still aren't sure who that is, don't seem be in any hurry to make up their minds and aren't interested in any artificial process that might force them to choose between Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Most of the more than 100 undecided superdelegates who discussed their decision-making with The Associated Press in the past two weeks agreed that the primaries and caucuses do matter _ whether it's who has the most national delegates or the candidate who won their state or congressional district. But few said the primaries will be the biggest factor in their decision.

"I think it's really important that we keep our eye on the prize, and the prize is the win in November," said Gail Rasmussen, an undecided superdelegate from Oregon.

That's good news for Clinton, who cannot catch Obama in delegates won in the few remaining primaries and caucuses.

Obama has been arguing for months that the superdelegates would be overturning the will of the voters if they don't nominate the candidate who has won the most pledged delegates. He has a 164-delegate lead in that category. Clinton, meanwhile, has argued that superdelegates should exercise independent judgment.

Many of the undecided superdelegates say they don't want to be perceived as elite insiders, cutting backroom deals to select a nominee. But that doesn't mean they're ready to forfeit their status.

"The way the system is set up, the superdelegates are able to weigh in because we are the most experienced people in the party," said Blake Johnson, an undecided superdelegate from Alaska. "We are the ones who have been part of the party the longest and keep it running on a day-to-day basis."

There will be nearly 800 superdelegates at the party's national convention in Denver this summer. They are the party and elected officials who automatically attend the convention and are free to support whomever they choose. They are in high demand now that neither Clinton nor Obama can clinch the nomination without them.

Clinton leads in superdelegate endorsements, 258-232, according to the latest tally by the AP. However, Obama has been eating away at her lead for much of the past two months, picking up 84 percent of the superdelegate endorsements since Super Tuesday.

About 250 superdelegates have told the AP they are undecided or uncommitted. About 60 more will be selected at state party conventions and meetings this spring.

AP reporters across the nation contacted the undecideds and asked them how they plan to choose. Of those, 117 agreed to discuss the decision-making process.

_About a third said the most important factor will be the candidate who, they believe, has the best chance of beating Republican John McCain in the general election.

_One in 10 said the biggest factor will be the candidate with the most pledged delegates won in primaries and caucuses.

_One in 10 said what matters most is who won their state or congressional district in the primary or caucus.

_The rest cited multiple factors or parochial issues.

Most undecided superdelegates surveyed said they hope the nomination is settled before the party's convention. <snip>

"I think that is changing the rules in the middle of the process," said Rep. Dan Boren of Oklahoma. "Obviously there are some problems with the process; there need to be some reforms made. Frankly, I would favor the people making the decision rather than insiders and party bosses."

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. why should people vote if supers pick whoever they want
just wondering..
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's what MANY voters will be wondering if the Supers over-ride the Primaries.
I don't think it will happen. Talk about the party shooting itself in the foot. This would take the cake
if the Supers hand it to Mz "Entitled"
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It won't happen.
Not this time.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I think it will. All Hail HRH HRC!
:puke:
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Our Very Own Supreme Court
what a load of crap to think a select group of "democrats" could undo election results - I expect this kind of weird shit from the GOP, but not in my party.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Why have Superdelegates if they should follow the pledged delegate total?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's what SDs are SUPPOSED to do.
They're a safety check that the party put in place to guard against the electorate backing a candidate that insiders think can't win in the general. I disagree with the argument that SDs should even exist, but there's absolutely no suggestion that they should vote with their electorate. If fact, doing so is in direct conflict with the entire premise of having SDs.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. they are suppose to pick the candidate who: polls worse, cant raise funds, and cant win the primary.
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 04:11 PM by meow mix
simply because he's black and hillary says he's "unelectable"

good call.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I certainly didn't say that...especially as an Obama supporter.
What they ARE supposed to do...their raison d'etre, is to, in a close race, make sure the candidate that has the best chance of willing the GE wins the nomination.

That's not my opinion, it's the reason SDs were invented.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. oh heh, well theres no way to define "close"
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 04:21 PM by meow mix
so to voters that means they get to pick whoever they want.. even if its not close.

how does the "closeness" matter.. if voters are making the "wrong choice"
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. "Close" is defined as a margin the SDs can overturn.
I'm not arguing the ethics or validity of SDs, I'm just stating the reason for their existence.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. some SD's appear to believe that voters votes matter..
Edited on Mon Apr-21-08 04:42 PM by meow mix
"Dahlman said she decided to back Obama after meeting both candidates in Butte.
She did, however, add the caveat that:

**she may reconsider if Montana voters pick Clinton in the primary**

Then Campbell met with three Obama staff members at the pancake restaurant
Although she expressed support for Obama's candidacy, she also called one of his staff members later in the day to make it clear she was not ready for a public endorsement.

She said: **she needed more time to speak with voters**


someone should explain thier roll to overturn voters to them =)

http://missoulian.com/articles/2008/04/16/jodirave/rave07.txt
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "someone should explain thier roll to overturn voters to them"
So are you writing Kerry & Kennedy to tell them to switch their votes to Hillary? :evilgrin:
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Good god. I'm not advocating it, I'm just stating fact.
I'd be happy if we eliminated the entire delegate process and just went with popular vote.

My point is that there's nothing in the "rules" that state that the SDs have to...or even should...consider electorate wishes when voting. In fact, the creation of the SD thing was meant to give power to the insiders in case the electorate broke for what they considered an unelectable candidate.

Yes, there's a local political advantage for a SD who votes with their electorate (if they have one). This, however, is in direct conflict with the reason the position was created.
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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. "no suggestion"? Didn't Howard Dean weigh in on this as Party Chair?
OK so he's probahly for Obama, but still.. not quite accurate to say there's no suggestion
Supers should honor the will of Democratic voters.

But your point is well taken anyway, since I know you're talking about the technical rules piece,
and that's probably ONE BIG reason many Supers weren't about to be quoted as saying otherwise.
.. as in the 33% touted in the article.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Choose wisely, soopers. You screw voters in the primary, they may
return the favor in the general.
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TexasLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. that's what I'm banking on
revote fear factor
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Committed Superdelgates is a misnomer as they can change at any time.




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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Trust me: the one's already commited to Obama will stay with Obama
the "committed" for hillary ones, well, not so sure about them since they keep breaking for Obama..
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. And why did they break for Obama?
For the most part, it was the perception of his winning.

That could change. These are politicians and party flacks for crissakes!


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99th_Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-21-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Winning caucuses, primaries & popular vote are not "perceptions" they speak for Dem voters.
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