Hillary says People in PA are optimistic and positive.

[dkf]

Who is out of touch here?

People in PA are going through hard times as are a whole lot of the industrial states.

This is a "let them eat cake" disaster for her. Mark my words.

[jackson_dem]

1. She said the truth. They are personally positive, optimistic, and good

They are anxious about what is happening in Washington, which she has long spoken about. The two are not mutually exclusive. Obama supporters are creating false categories to dig him out of a hole. America is not Obama's racist church or his neighborhood which includes Louis Farrakhan. Most people are good.

[dkf]

3. They are anxious about what is happening in DC? Are you crazy?

They are anxious about what is happening in their own backyards! To their neighbors and to their kids prospects and to themselves.

[jackson_dem]

5. Which is a product of government policies

They are on a personal level good, optimistic, and positive. Just because you think the country is on the wrong track does not mean you become a bigot, run to church, and purchase a gun. :eyes:

Clinton is saying what FDR said during tough times. You lift people up, not tear them down during tough times. You give them hope...

[dkf]

9. You have it exactly wrong. People think DC is a load of BS.

They have given up on it...that is why they don't vote.

That is why it takes a different type of politics. If we go with status quo we won't see anything new. Been there done that.

[jackson_dem]

11. They haven't. the 2004 election had high turnout

DU is not the real world.

[dkf]

18. Turnout was 55%. Looks sad to me.

http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2004.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

Our turnout was 3rd from the bottom in the world.

[Shae]

66. Hope?

"You lift people up, not tear them down during tough times. You give them hope..."

you mean the skies will open up, celestial choirs will sing?

No, you got it wrong. Hope is what she makes fun of.

[BearSquirrel2]

46. All politics are local ...

All politics are local. If you're worried about what's going on in Washington, you're worried about whats going on in your own neighborhood. The two are inseparable.

Hillary is trying to play the "Bush game" and just ignore fundamental structural issues with free trade. She knows full well she will continue the free trade signing agenda of the previous administration. The Clintonites believe the problem is that other countries aren't "playing fair".

If this is the case, the correct response is to refuse to play. Close off your markets and show them you're serious. The problem is, that the people funding Hillary's campaign are making a LOT of money by cutting their costs via outsourcing US jobs. They will not be there for her if she was to take any real structural reform that might get the attention of foreign nations.


In general, I think we need to end all free trade agreements with dictatorships. I think we need an international body of Democratic states that closely collaborate with one another. Within this body, strong open trade policies can be passed as law. Outside, a tough hand should be dealt with access being rewarded on the basis of how progressive they are.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. That's fucking disgusting.

Smearing him with Farrakhan because they live in the same neighborhood? You must be proud of yourself.

[MH1]

49. After Obama is finally nominated

that one won't be around DU much longer.

Bank on it.

[noel711]

51. Umm, when was the last time you were in PA?

Walk the streets of the north Philly ghetto?

Or the hardscrabble neighborhoods of the northeast?

How about talk to all the former workers of
Bethlehem Steel who were cheated out of their
pensions and health care?

Been to Hazelton lately, and all the
immigrant controversy? And these folks are positive?


If you're gonna label Obama's church as racist,
I think you better worship there one Sunday before you judge.

And Obama's neighborhood, Hyde Park on Chicago's south side
is a multi-ethnic progressive community that has 5 seminaries,
2 hospitals, many schools, and many faith traditions.
I do not know if Farrakan lives there, but Obama's closest
neighbor is a rabbi.
I lived near there once. Have you?

[leftofcool]

2. You don't think people can go through hard times

and not remain hopeful and optimistic? Oh wait, America is just one big bleak place filled with angry, bitter people right?

[jackson_dem]

6. Ironic isn't it? Whatever happened to "hope"?

[leftofcool]

7. Hope is dead

America is filled with angry bitter people

[safeinOhio]

43. I'm not bitter

I"M PISSED-OFF. My only hope, seems to be to vote for change. Now, I have to decide which one is the most unlike B***. Who is the most like me? Not born rich, not for policies that help the wealthy more than the middle class. Which one speaks the truth?

[dkf]

8. In my experience, hard times are more likely to make people bitter than hopeful and optimistic.

I didn't think going through hard times was a positive experience. But then, maybe that is me.

[leftofcool]

12. For most people, I dare say it makes them stronger and more

hopeful and optimistic for a brighter future

[dkf]

21. Well then, NAFTA is a wonderful thing!

Makes everyone stronger. YAY NAFTA!

[leftofcool]

26. If you want to believe that Americans

are bleak, bitter and angry, so be it.

[dkf]

38. Americans are bitter that their politician's promises have been BS.

and that it encourages jobs to move overseas which works against the average joe.

We need our political system to work for us and it hasn't been.

And I do believe that our trade policies have been bad for certain states like PA.

[jackson_dem]

13. No leader says that. Did FDR say "we are fucked!"?

If Obama understood "hope", which he talks about incessantly, he would understand this...

[leftofcool]

16. FDR would never have said this

He would never have called Americans a bitter and angry people

[jackson_dem]

14. No leader says that. Did FDR say "we are fucked!"

Lincoln: "Hey people, we may lose the war!"

If Obama understood "hope", which he talks about incessantly, he would understand this...

[dkf]

22. Obama understands that a lot of people no longer believe.

I think that is a true statement.

But I also think that he is changing that mentality.

[leftofcool]

28. yea, if you keep telling people that they are angry, bitter, depressed

and that their lives are bleak, they probably will come to believe it

[dkf]

40. I guess you think Marie Antoinette's words were perfect then.

[Hepburn]

48. When's the last time you looked around the inner city?

Gangs, welfare, crime, drive-by shootings. Do you realize that in some major inner cities, less than 50% of the students will graduate from HS? Drugs offer a way out to them....deadens the pain, makes money dealing...why the hell go to school. Tell me....are these happy, hopeful people looking to the future?

Take off your Hillary Rose Colored glassed. When is the last time you took a long, hard look at reality?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

58. They're not mutually exclusive.

That is all.

[flor de jasmim]

4. To give her "credit", she is in touch with her supporters,

who MUST be optimistic to think she still has a realistic chance of winning the nomination.

But I hope voters are jolted out of their complacency--I read somewhere yesterday of people who were thinking of voting for Hillary as some sort of protest vote (it wasn't clear what they were protesting, whether it was FL/MI, bias in the media, or what). Protest voting is not a good idea when the stakes are so high.

[saracat]

10. Optimistic and positive is "let them eat cake" ? Are you kidding?

Odd that Hillary is offering "hope" and optimism and Barack is being negative. negativity isn't a winning combo. Hillary has respect for the hardworking pennsylvanians and barack just thinks they are narrow minded bigots poinoned by "bitterness". It becomes intersting when one realizes that the favorite response of Obama supporters on DU seems to be "bitter much". Hmmm....

[jackson_dem]

15. Good post. Yeah, whatever happened to "hope"?

They are actually attacking her for offering what Obama claims to sell. No leader is going to say people are screwed. That is part of what being a leader entails as well as a formula for getting out. You have to keep morale high. Say things are broken but we will fix it. That is what FDR did.

[quantass]

20. I think you are missing the POINT what Obama is saying...

I am sure you saw the CNN video clip where they destroyed Hillary and McSame for intentionally misinterpreting Obama's message...but anyway, Obama is expressing the emotions of neglect that people in hardhit areas of the country are feeling and how Washington is the cause of it....it is this understanding that because he has tapped in and understand their down-and-out feelings towards their ongoing hardships that he knows exactly how to conquer it....think of it like a doctor first trying to diagnose the ailment before prescribing a solution....if you cant precisely diagnose the problem through physical and emotional then you are doomed into finding the solution....Obama has pinpointed the frustrations and bitterness and has seen it first hand and with that one-on-one emotional understanding he knows how to fix it....

The problem with Hillary is that she is giving a canned speech on how the people in PA are happy as they are and no big deal...this is a shallow attempt into getting to know what the problem is....to use that doctor theme it is like trying to diagnose the problem with a patient over the internet...Hillary is saying "take an asprin you will be fine tomorrow"...while Obama is taking the time to understand the full brunt of it all...to be one with them...

I think it is foolish to dismiss Obama and think what he said was some negative attack of some kind...if you think this then you are being very biased....did you see his speech in Indiana commenting again on this? I just cant figure out how what you are hearing from the man as something negative towards PA when all i see is a precise analysis of a that states issues and how he wants to make a difference for the better....i figure PA's would appreciate that someone is taking the time to understand them!

[jackson_dem]

23. A Canadian is going to lecture me on what small town PA people will think?

:rofl:

[leftofcool]

29. people in PA are happy as they are and no big deal

Please post a link to where Hillary said people's lives in Pennsylvania are no big deal. I believe she said she saw optimism and resiliance in their lives.

[dkf]

17. Ya know I do think the government as it is is a waste of time.

That is why I keep on trying to elect change candidates like Dean and now Obama. The only source of hope I have is that we can change our leadership to those who understand their role is to serve we the people.

And Obama is saying that Pennsylvanians have been screwed royally by outsourcing and other trade deals.

But I'm glad you think everything is OK in Pennsylvania.

Yeah everything is hunky dory. Nothing to see here.

[2rth2pwr]

19. How dare she!

[jackson_dem]

24. Yup! FDR: "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"

Obama: "You are all bitter, bigoted, and have quirky habits like going to church and hunting!"

[dkf]

25. Hello, Obama has more of a church going habit than Hillary does.

[jackson_dem]

27. Yeah but he is a millionaire Ivy League person. He thinks "correctly"

Unlike those ignorant, stupid, bigoted small town folks!

[dkf]

30. He is the one who saw true poverty growing up in Indonesia.

And his mom used food stamps when he was growing up.

He had students loan payments higher than his mortgage until a few years ago.

Contrast that with Mrs. $110 million.

[jackson_dem]

33. They are both rich. The joke is on Obamites

People have been falling for the "log cabin" myth ever since it was created for William Henry Harrison in 1840. Yup. You guessed it: Harrison was an aristocrat running against the son of a tavern owner yet it was Harrision who was cast as the common man...

[dkf]

39. Obama is an aristocrat?

Now that IS rich.

[jackson_dem]

69. No. William Henry Harrison was yet people fell for his "log cabin" myth

Here we are 168 years later and people are falling for another "log cabin" myth regarding another candidate running on image, not policies.

[PBS Poll-435]

57. Maybe, Maybe Not...

If he wasn't there to witness any of Rev. Wright's more colorful sermons...

[2rth2pwr]

68. He sure seemed to miss all the interesting sermons.

[Zachstar]

32. That is an offensive Signiture line Please remove it.

[Forkboy]

35. They're proud of being children, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting.

[Zachstar]

31. Clinton is out of touch.

As you can see the usual people are here trying to turn it on Obama again (They can't)

This is a "let them eat cake" moment and it completely sidetracks the outrage across the rust belt over jobs being sent overseas.

For those who want to continue the mess and dig the hole further, who is the family making hundreds of thousands on speeches? Which is double what many make in a year now!? CLINTON!

[IamyourTVandIownyou]

34. They are...

optimistic and positive that Obama will win PA.

[krkaufman]

36. That's what I was thinking. She sounds as out-of-touch as "what mortgage crisis?" McSame.

And, at best, is arguing against a sociological fact.

[leftofcool]

37. It's a sociological fact

that small town Americans are gun toting bigots because they are frustrated about their lot in life?

[dkf]

41. Are you projecting? Because that isn't what Obama said at all.

[CatsDogsBabies]

42. I grew up in small town PA

my father was a mill worker who lost his job in the early 80s-thankfully he was close enough to retirement to retire. Many people were much younger and lost a lot, because no living wage jobs have replaced all the jobs lost in the early 80s. The city of Pittsburgh has lost more than half its population - believe it or not Pittsburgh used to be something like the 14th largest (not sure exactly)city in the US. I don't even like visiting where I grew up as a child (I live in another state now) because it is depressing.

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying people are angry and frustrated, nor do I think anything is wrong with people actually being angry and frustrated. Just because someone is angry doesn't mean they are not a good person.

Good people can be angry and frustrated when they have been left behind.

The economic down turn in places like PA is not some short term thing - it is something that happned a long time ago from which people have never recovered. I agree - saying people are optimistic and positive is a bit patronizing and out of touch.

[Penndems]

47. Excellent post - May I take your points one step further?

Having both lived in and worked on political campaigns in Pennsylvania, there are more mitigating factors at work here than just those on an emotional plane.

I agree wholeheartedly with your assertion that good people can become angry and frustrated when they're left behind, but they weren't left behind simply because of a single trade policy, or a particular public official. Millions of people have exited that state since the collapse of the steel industry, and not many stayed to lead a hand in erecting a phoenix from the ashes. If I heard that once, I heard it a hundred times when I resided in PA: "Why did they leave? Why didn't they stay, and help rebuild this state?"

There there was a succession of politicians, both in the state legislature and in the Governor's Mansion, who were nothing more than crooks lining their own pockets at the expense of the decent people of that state. When Tom Ridge was Governor, he took care of both his personal and lobbyist friends, and enabled them to enrich themselves through the largesse of Pennsylvania state government contracts. Mark Schweiker wasn't any better. He saw his tenure as Governor mostly as that of an intermediary between the Ridge Administration and the next state Chief Executive. Pennsylvanians have been caught up in a vicious cycle stemming from state and Federal officials who have benefited from keeping things status quo, and its citizens who believed that changing that culture of corruption was an exercise in futility.

It might be patronizing to imply that Pennsylvanians are optimistic and positive (and there's nothing wrong with being either one), but so is saying they need to be bitter. These are hard-working, salt-of-the-earth people who've been dealt a bad hand at the state and Federal levels, but they aren't sitting around dwelling on the past and wallowing in self-pity, either. They remember the years when steel was king, and are indeed angry that the Federal Government did nothing to prevent trade tariffs from killing off most of the industry and allowing cheap imports to flood the market. However, these folks also realized that they needed to diversify their economy and look at other areas of commerce to "grow" PA economically.

People have to have hope, but they also need the will to survive, honest leaders, a healthy dose of realism, and economical opportunities that afford them not only a decent standard of living, but a chance to contribute towards the the betterment of their state as a whole.

[EFerrari]

50. His statement was conditional, not prescriptive. He didn't say

anyone needs to be bitter. He said it isn't suprising when people become bitter.

Unlike Hillary who is simply trying to manipulate by pandering, Obama was trying to understand and to describe the problems faced by the residents of those communities.

[Penndems]

52. "He said it isn't suprising when people become bitter."

Agree, and I can see where Senator Obama was attempting to envision the situation and empathize with their frustrations.

I also see where Senator Clinton was endeavoring to connect with voters from her perspective, as well.

[EFerrari]

55. That's right. Both she and McCain were trying to connect with voters

by calling Obama an condescending elitist. In order to jerk someone around, first you have to connect with them. :)

[Penndems]

56. "In order to jerk someone around, first you have to connect with them."

Um, but wasn't Senator Obama attempting to connect with them, too? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

65. That's disingenuous. Was Bush trying to connect with voters

when he called Kerry a flip flopper? You'd have to say, yes, he was.

I don't want to "connect" with a candidate that would use mudslinging when one who discusses issues thoughtfully is an option.

[ShortnFiery]

64. "Good people can be angry and frustrated when they have been left behind."

From a person who grew up in a small town on the plains of South Dakota - you're IMO, spot on! :thumbsup: :hi:

[tekisui]

44. She's an elitist.

[OnionPatch]

53. Lol, hilarious!

Talk about being out of touch. I don't know a soul in PA who is optimistic about politics and/or the economy. How condescending. My husband and I are bitter that we had to leave PA because of lack of work 20 years ago. We're bitter that we had to move to an overcrowded, overpriced suburb of LA and live in the smog and crime to find work. We're bitter that we have to pay mega bucks every year to get home and see the folks when we would prefer to still live close by them. Maybe we'll get to move back home someday.....when we retire, because we sure as hell aren't going to find any work there. So count us as a couple of the bitter ones.

Edited to add: Our parents will be dead by the time we have a chance to move home again.

[kevinmc]

54. She got her info from Richard Mellon Scaife ...... case closed n/t

[book_worm]

59. she'll say or do anything to win.

[OzarkDem]

60. They deserve support from leaders, not the Obama insults

Why else do you think Obama is having a hard time winning their votes?

[ShortnFiery]

61. HRC also said, "Do not look at the man behind the curtain."

Hillary TELLS us the following:

Everything is FINE!

Freedom is Slavery!

Bombing Iran will bring us PEACE!

Just go shopping and do "lay away" if you have to because we are all HAPPY because I'll take care of everything.

Just go back to sleep AFTER you vote for ME! ME! ME! :thumbsdown:

[Bensthename]

62. That's exactly what I have been saying. Her sugar coating is worse.

He made an honest true assessment of Wash DC and small town issues.

Hillary just says everybody is fine with Bush's policies. Is she still looking for that McCain/Clinton ticket?

[Arkana]

63. Further proof that all the "happy happy sunshine" charges

from Hillary's people about Obama supporters are utter shit.

If she honestly thinks things are hunky-dory in PA then she needs to stop comparing herself to Rocky and take a good look around. Obama actually had the guts to come right out and say it--and she's calling HIM an elitist for actually acknowledging that there are problems.

Hmmm, who else do we know who spent his entire presidency in a Happy Happy Sunshine Brand(tm) Bubble?

[BlueIdaho]

67. Two Words

Rust Belt. Little Mary Sunshine just doesn't get it - but why should she? The Billary's made 109 MILLION dollars in eight years.

[Willo]

70. "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us,

but we sip little by little at a truth we find bitter."

[Hieronymus]

71. Was Bill right, that at 60, she's losing it?