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Obama is a genius... the bitter comment is brilliant.

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:28 PM
Original message
Obama is a genius... the bitter comment is brilliant.
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 09:37 PM by TLM

You'd think Hill/McCain would have figured out by now that Obama doesn't play the old politics game they way they play it.

Just like he was ready with a response to Wright when he was attacked with it... he's ready with a response to the bitter comment.


He tossed out a nice hunk of red meat for Hill and John to pounce on, and try to spin and cry gotcha... but he was ready.

He fired off a response, and rather than try to back off what he said, he flipped it right back on hillary and mcsame.

It wasn't until I read his response that I realized... damn, the news cycle for the next week is going to be about this. Every news show and talking head is going to be on this subject... the subject of working class anger, cynicism, and resentment towards government. And guess what: that's a subject that will crush Hillary and mcsame in middle America. Nafta, wal*mart, bankruptcy bill... all over the news for the next week as hillary is on the news telling these folks "you're not angry with government like he says" and folks all across the mid-west saying "hell yes I'm angry with government."

Obama said working folks are bitter towards government... bitter means resentful and cynical. Find me one rural working class american that isn't resentful or cynical towards government. One.

Apr 15th is 4 days away, so trust me, you won't find one.

Working class folks know they are pissed, and they know why they are pissed. They do not feel insulted by someone paying attention enough to see and understand why they are bitter towards government. They will doubtless be insulted however by hill and john condescending to them and trying to convince them they're being insulted by the guy who dared to say that they are bitter towards government.


Obama is amazing... now the discussion for the next week, the debate, etc... is all about why these rural folks are angry at government. And most of the reasons they are angry, were supported by Hillary. Nafta, wal*mrt, etc. The attack on Obama is not only weak, but he can spin it into all of Hillary biggest negatives in these remaining states. And Obama comes out as the one who not only hears rural america's anger and understands their frustration, but as the only one with the guts to say it and not try to pretend everything is great.

GObama!











Senator Obamas comments in response to the Clinton and McCain campaigns attacks -

TERRE HAUTE, INDIANA At a town hall meeting in Indiana, U.S. Senator Barack Obama made the following comments in response to the Clinton and McCain campaigns attacks:

When I go around and I talk to people there is frustration and there is anger and there is bitterness. And whats worse is when people are expressing their anger then politicians try to say what are you angry about? This just happened I want to make a point here today.

I was in San Francisco talking to a group at a fundraiser and somebody asked howre you going to get votes in Pennsylvania? Whats going on there? We hear thats its hard for some working class people to get behind youre campaign. I said, Well look, theyre frustrated and for good reason. Because for the last 25 years theyve seen jobs shipped overseas. Theyve seen their economies collapse. They have lost their jobs. They have lost their pensions. They have lost their healthcare.

And for 25, 30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said were going to make your community better. Were going to make it right and nothing ever happens. And of course theyre bitter. Of course theyre frustrated. You would be too. In fact many of you are. Because the same thing has happened here in Indiana. The same thing happened across the border in Decatur.

The same thing has happened all across the country. Nobody is looking out for you. Nobody is thinking about you. And so people end up- they dont vote on economic issues because they dont expect anybodys going to help them. So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms.

They vote on issues like gay marriage. And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they dont believe they can count on Washington. So I made this statement-- so, heres what rich. Senator Clinton says No, I dont think that people are bitter in Pennsylvania. You know, I think Baracks being condescending. John McCain says, Oh, how could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? You know, hes obviously out of touch with people.

Out of touch? Out of touch? I mean, John McCainit took him three tries to finally figure out that the home foreclosure crisis was a problem and to come up with a plan for it, and hes saying Im out of touch? Senator Clinton voted for a credit card-sponsored bankruptcy bill that made it harder for people to get out of debt after taking money from the financial services companies, and she says Im out of touch?

No, Im in touch. I know exactly whats going on. I know whats going on in Pennsylvania. I know whats going on in Indiana. I know whats going on in Illinois. People are fed-up. Theyre angry and theyre frustrated and theyre bitter. And they want to see a change in Washington and thats why Im running for President of the United States of America.
http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com /
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended
I agree 100%
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. lol
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. What is it that you find funny? n/t
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #75
150. I agree - telling Dems that until Obama we never did anything - a lie & a smear
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #75
196. HEY, durrrty libby, take your 'humor' to here:
americablog.com mccafferty and all eviscerate your 'gal' and her 'dad' over this. that's how its playing. laugh that off.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #75
235. Almost 200 recommendations as I post this.
Who's laughing now, durrrrty lib?
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. You know, the reason Obama is able to come right back at 'em the way he does is because
it's easy when you're telling the truth.

It's only when someone is telling a lie that the answers get convoluted and more and more contrived.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. The truth can easily be spun as something negative....



Hill and John were obviously counting on Obama reacting as they would... by backing off and stumbling as he tried to apologize and say he misspoke.

Had he done so, they could easily spin this truth about bitterness as a clumsy demonstration of some arrogant disregard for the average working class person.


Instead by holding his ground, he forces the issue to the forefront. And the issue is a big danger zone for hillary.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
55. I guess they have their heads in the sand
then and can't possibly learn from Obama's previous boomerang factors.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
79. You'd think they had learned from the last time.
I guess it's time for another lesson. With the truth on his side, Obama won't lose this one either.

I think people are so burned out that they've even pushed their anger back, because it hurts so much. Obama's statement will bring it back out onto the front burner. "yeah", they'll say, "I am bitter! This guy knows how I feel. Maybe, just maybe, he's going to do something about it."

The man is smart. I was wondering, at first how he could have stumbled into something by accident. I guess it's not an accident after all.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #79
219. In life, there are no coincidences.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
217. Seems like almost everything is a big danger zone for Hillary.
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Zachstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Good point.
The old saying that when you lie you have to tell a thousand lies to cover the lie.

Obama did not need to hide. He came right out and threw it back. Now Clinton has got some explaining to do about wal mart, taxes, NAFTA, speechs making more than average people make in a year, etc....
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
220. It's so refreshing, isn't it?
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aaronbees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Right on the money
Watch for Clinton and McCain to lie up and down about this subject from here on out as it gets washed, rewashed and rehashed in the news cycles in upcoming days. Obama was exactly right ... and honest.
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lisa58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
146. Truth - it's a beautiful thing to behold
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
151. EXACTLY.
And that's why the Obama's trust standing with people increases when these faux controversies are raised - because they can see he is speaking honestly.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #151
223. What a novelty!! Looks like it may really be catching on...
and that's why Hillary is completely flummoxed at every turn.
This is not the 'old politics' at all.
Been there, done that.

Gobama!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
212. Hillary is averaging $18 million a year and she's calling Obama "elitist" . . . ???
The DLC-Dems have been helping the Repugs wipe out the middle class for 30 years+ now ---
and Obama is "elitist" . . .

There's no class warfare?


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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Once again the Clintons failed
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 09:32 PM by C_U_L8R
The end is palpable.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent analysis! K&R n/t
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Thanks nance....
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 10:06 PM by TLM

As one of the more insightful and articulate posters here on DU, that means a lot.

:toast:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. He takes on those two poltical clowns with the greatest of ease
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
249. Key word: Clowns
Yes, America wants an ADULT President, not another clown after Bill and George.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm going to rec this too. I think it is an accurate perception....
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 09:37 PM by Flabbergasted
Wrightgate failed for a similar reason: democrats and some pubs are also royally pissed off about our foreign policy.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ever see the movie "Being There" ?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
117. Yes great movie
You ask because . . ?
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #117
159. I like to watch...
that movie.
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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #159
161. I like to watch
LOL!
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
200. Did you see Chauncy Gardner walk on water at the end? N/T
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R! n/t
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
135. Madame Defarge? Why would you choose that name?
Horrible character, knitting needles or no.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #135
187. In A Tale of Two Cities...
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 01:48 PM by ooglymoogly
Even though it was on a personal grudge; she was knitting the French Revolution into a reality against the ruling classes for their obscene excesses while the poor starved, living in retched and squalid conditions. For some her character was a revolutionary hero

Just like now "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Best for the rich, worst for the escalating poor and homeless.

It is a good screen name imo as we are on the verge of a revolution, though minor in comparison and we are all in our own ways becoming Madam Defarge. Like all revolutions ours also will be on personal (becoming all encompassing) grudges against the ruthless thugs controlling the strings of our "govt". And the leader of this Revolution is.............OBAMA
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #187
259. Mme DeFarge didn't let a little thing like innocence stop her from sending people to the guilloti
Thank you, NO. NOT my kind of revolution.


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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #259
261. we'll have a much more dainty one then that is perfect with no rough edges...
Edited on Sun Apr-13-08 01:03 PM by ooglymoogly
I was not speaking of the evils of Madam Defarge at the end of her victory and her particular grudge, nor all the points covered by Dickens' fictional Character who, in fiction, was a grand spark of the revolution and it is that grand spark of which I speak.
I am speaking on the larger issue of overturning a "Privileged" very small section of our civilization who have gone way too far. IMO Dickens was speaking to an issue that is, power corrupts no matter who wields it, though in the end, in reality and in time, the French revolution was a good thing for France and finally, after the vicious and often heartless bloodletting, brought about a middle class.

I however at this time am speaking of putting a president in the white house Who will change the power structure for the good and not for the benefit of the powerful few; And that all of us, like Madam Defarge, who had a particularly personal grudge, have our own grudge against this govt. and THAT is our kind of grand spark. Those who would rise against the French aristocracy all had, in their own way, felt the deadly and heartless oppression against the many innocent as did the fictional character of Madam Defarge who, in the power of their victory became the enemy of decency and common sense and would commit heartless excesses of their own and it is thus the pendulum swings.
Fortunately the grand spark of our revolution is.......OBAMA
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #261
267. OK. OK. I liked her until near the end of the book. n/t
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #135
192. Anyone can experience redemption. n/t
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funflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #192
260. Meaningless statement. n/t
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Alhena Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Watching Obama speak is like watching Michael Jordan in his prime
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
124. Obama is once-in-a-lifetime
and we're too lucky. America doesn't deserve a Michael Jordan anymore.
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keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. You can bet your bippi that some people are bitter.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:44 PM
Original message
Oh really? Welcome to DU.
You have much to learn.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Which comments specifically will help the right wing?

Tell me, which of Obama comments will help the right wing, with what groups, and exactly how will it help the right wing?

Go...


:popcorn:
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Elisabethveron77 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Saying that unemployed people cling to religion and guns
As if clinging to religion were as bad as clinging to guns, and without explaining why employed people in PA many times "cling" to guns as well. The groups are right-wing newspapers, tv outlets such as Fox, blogs, etc.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I said HIS COMMENTS.....


I asked for Obama's comments, not your disingenuous paraphrasing or spin on Obama's comments.


Quote him exactly, and answer the question if you can....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. "they cling to guns or religion"



Obama on small-town PA: Clinging religion, guns, xenophobia

Mayhill Fowler has more from Obama's remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser Sunday, and they include an attempt to explain the resentment in small-town Pennsylvania that won't be appreciated by some of the people whose votes Obama's seeking:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

.....
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Obama_on_sm...
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. And now post the rest of his comment...


and not the out of context cherry pick from politico....


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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. go eat some popcorn.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. It can go with the frozen pizza the poster you're agreeing with is currently enjoying.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #51
121. wow
that was fast
was it delivery?
no its digiorno
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Just as expected.... you probably do not even care about context.
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 11:43 PM by TLM

You're in it to spin it, and so the full context would be something for you to avoid...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...


Have a look to see what it looks like when a candidate tells the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow



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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #56
145. Thanks for that
Keep it real Obama.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #45
97. Talk about condescension.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #45
101. W REC K
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 01:07 AM by BushDespiser12
"Salad Days"
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
86. I've read the remarks in context
And they're bigoted, condescending, show a disdain for the 2nd amendment (if those people weren't so dumb they'd realize only dumb people want guns!), contrary to his own purported personal beliefs (is Obama bitter? If not, why did he cling to Rev Wright and his religion?), and, in my opinion, display an elitist attitude towards anyone in "flyover" country. Please provide the context that shows these comments in a glowing light that isn't offensive stereotyping of white blue-collar working Americans. I'd love to see it.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #86
92. You don't seem to get it,
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 12:57 AM by spokane
either that or you're being naive with your thinking, I see you're still holding on
to Rev Wright story, no surprise there to see you espousing the same kind of
intelligence here.

What in his statement that is stereotyping White blue-collar working Americans
that you see besides looking at it from that narrow selfish and money grabbing
divisive empathy that you propose as a thought.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #86
98. There is no attack on the 2nd amendment...

"Please provide the context that shows these comments in a glowing light that isn't offensive stereotyping of white blue-collar working Americans. I'd love to see it."


Sure...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #86
176. thank you.
i agree 100%.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #86
191. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #191
231. I guess that tombstone is making reading hard for you...



"I'm from a middle class town in Ohio, and I have middle class family in Pennsylvania. Not all of us are bitter, not all of us have a problem with the U.S. governmet, not all of us grab a gun out of desperation, not all of us run to church because we've been out of work for 25 years."


Reading comprehention not a stong point, huh?

Try again... Obama was talking about the rural folks who have become single issue voters or have rejected politics entirely, and why they've done so.

You are trying to spin a simple and straight forward comment about a particular group of issue voters and non-voters, as a blanket attack on all people in these areas. Broadening the scope of a statement to imply it was an attack when it wasn't is a clear indication that, as with all the folks attacking oabama, you can't attack with what he actually said, so you have to distort it.

Which is why the rest of your post is pure race baiting BS, and has nothing to do with the actual comments Obama made.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #191
255. Either you are trying to help spin it
into what it is not or you just plain didn't understand the context of what Obama said. For that matter, Rev. Wright didn't provide the "hate speech." It was a white guy that the Rev. was quoting. There's nothing racist nor elitist about Obama and saying so is ludicrous. For the record, I am a struggling middle-class caucasian from California and am very bitter towards what this government has done and is still doing. All we'd get from Hillary or McInsane is more of the same elitist crap and endless wars...

By the way, that middle name thing really shakes you, huh? Do you *always* use peoples' entire names? Maybe we really all should take Hussein as a middle name like Stephanie Miller proposed so you all will get over it! It smells vaguely racist to think there's something to it, if that concerns you at all.

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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #86
199. Obama is from one of the "flyover" states
Illinois is made up just like PA. We have lost our jobs with nothing else to replace them except for Walmart and McDonalds. We are bitter and angry. We are bitter that NAFTA took our jobs and transported them to China, India and other foreign countries. We are angry because our kids, brothers and sisters are dieing in a Oil War while gas prices are steady going up. We are angry becaue the cost of living is raising faster than our wages.
This was a smart move by Obama now Hillary will have to defend her stance on NAFTA and her husband recieving money from Columbia to push for a free trade deal.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #199
266. Check out what happens when you replace the "or" clauses with ellipses.
You get:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling . . . to anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.


The construction of the sentence is that the subject of the first clause, "they" and the first verb, "cling" are followed by a set of "to" prepositional clauses (IIRC) that are joined by "or" and are equal, followed by a conjunction and a subordinate explaining clause "as a way to explain their frustrations." Taking out all the other prepositional phrases and replacing them with ellipses shows the connection between the prepositional clause containing "trade agreements" with its subject and verb much better than when the "trade agreements" clause is at the end of a bunch of "or's."

Read the edited sentence carefully.

Does Obama mean that some of these trade agreements have nothing to do with job losses in manufacturing?

Might Obama be saying that your anti-NAFTA attitude is your crutch in bad times, just like Obama says that guns are to others?

Does that mean that he really thinks that NAFTA is a good idea and that people oppose it only out of bitterness?

Think about it.

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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #86
214. I got my guns after becoming bitter and cynical about the government.
I also hunt, and have been a marksman for a long time, but there is only one primary function for my 12GA. People who don't trust their Government have reason too provide for their own defense. It's a mistrust that our founding fathers encouraged, and it intensifies (maybe to an unhealthy level) when your Government is establishing GULAGs and defining domestic enemies of the state.

I reject your premise that acknowledging this is "condescension".
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #214
233. Remember those "hate big government" republicans...


The guys who live out on a ranch... or in small towns that do not want the feds in their lives... the libertarians and local militia types. The folks who have grown up and for their whole lives they've seen the federal government as a destructive force imposed on their communities.

Republicans got a lot of votes by saying dems want to take your guns or saying the dems that let wal*mart put your dad's hardware store out of business, now want to give his minimum wage wal*job to an illegal immigrant... they've been screwed over and lied to for 3 decades by dems and repubs who forget them as soon as they get their votes.

These folks want change too... Obama can see it.

Hillary and McSame may assume rural folks are stupid and will obey her and feel insulted because she says they should feel insulted, but Obama knows these folks, like so many other americans, are sick of the same old shell game in DC. They want change, they want the old guard out.

I keep hearing from friends in PA who are saying over and over, at least he's not them... he's something different.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #233
258. I've lived in ID and I currently reside in MI...
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 10:47 PM by D23MIURG23
So I am familiar with the segment of society you are referencing. Some of these people are genuinely insane; our own Michigan Militia was implicated in the Oklahoma City bombing.

On the other hand, the same sorts of feelings are present to varying degrees in an increasingly wide swath of society. Some of the things Ive heard about government power and the need to own weapons from a gun nut friend (and hunting buddy) of mine, were also rendered to me by a art student and self described communist a few years earlier. That these two would have anything in common politically would have been unthinkable to me eight years ago, but there it is. And get this... my gun nut friend, who is an NRA member, and who's rifle collection is worth more than my car, thinks W is a joke and supported Edwards!!!

There is only one thing people can agree on these days, and its exactly what you reference in your last line. Washington is broken, and we need a different perspective. Hillary's "I can make real change by being a Washington insider" campaign was exactly wrong, and is exactly why Obama has such an advantage. Its also why this "bitter" comment is not going to change anything... its mostly true and again serves (again) to distinguish him from his competition.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Didn't even make it to ten posts this time.
:rofl:
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
53. I've got a whole bag full of "shh!", right here!
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #30
88. now don't you just feel foolish
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. Looks like you're back
welcome back....

:hi:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #88
129. Nope...do you?
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
83. First of all, he said people vote on those issues
because they have no faith in government to address other issues. He never said cling. He said vote on those issues and take refuge in church and family. I think someone needs a reading comprehension and retention class. That or your purposefully misconstruing his comments. But, why would anyone do that?
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L4TRUTH Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
96. What don't you get?
It's really very simple----when you lose control in one area, you want to keep it in another. (human nature) That's what is relevant about the gun issue and immigration etc.

Do you guys not understand that Barack encountered all of these issues when he was a community organizer in Chicago? Steel mill closings---sound familiar?
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nancyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. How so?????
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magatte Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
91. F***ck the right wing groups, they are not God
And they will not pass our bodies. Not this time. And any one who says the contrary is a weak, unamerican streak of yellow piss.

Damn/ end rant

They are not some supreme beings, they are shitty whiners, who bitch on TV.

We can and we WILL take them down.
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Renaissance Man Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Two Remaining Critics
... with their spouses are worth more than $100 million (a piece) and Barack and Michelle are worth a little over a million. Tell me, again, why Hillary Clinton and John McSame would have the interests of the middle and working classes at heart.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. k&r
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TriplePlay Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. You have to be a bit bitter and angry to want change
Obama can paint this as two candidates in Hillary and McSame that stand for the same politics and him as the change candidate.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. No frigging comparison.
He is so much more aware of the issues we are all facing and is so able to tread the delicate balance of hope and change whilst counterbalancing how POed we are that our treasury has been trashed over an ill fated endless conflict which will only enrich the very few.

Embittered. . . who wouldn't be. . . ? It's cost each and every one of us 20 grand. But we're supposed to take our 600 dollar bribe and think that's fair.

Right. . .?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. As it turns out, we are adults and CAN handle the truth.
Obama is turning things upside-down and I'm loving every minute of it.
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
104. Listen to the obama crowd get louder
Obama's coming on stronger.

That's why I like Obama too. He draws a crowd, and there getting loud... louder...All across America...

I love it.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
188. He never fails to deliver.
Cheers.
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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. who doesn't feel bitter
about paying $3.50 per gallon for gas at the pumps. This guy is spot on. AND THANK YOU BARACK FOR NOT BACKING DOWN AND APOLOGIZING like so many of our democratic "leaders" have done in the past when bullied by republicans and the MSM. That's why in November I will be proud to call you PRESIDENT ELECT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
140. I don't feel bitter about the cost of gas.
I think it should cost more, to be honest.

My declining home value... that I am angry about! And I blame the Bush admin completely. Not Barack. Not Hillary. GWB took this nation on an overspending rollercoaster and dug us into debt like we have never seen before. How dare he take a budget surplus and do this to it!

Bitterness? I reserve that emotion for things like a misogynistic press. You know... things that are never going to change no matter how hard I work against them.
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Joanie Baloney Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #140
163. Misogynistic press?
Wait...I thought it was the liberal press. When did it change?? I didn't get that memo...nobody told me!! I'm outta the loop...Waaahhhhh!!!

:cry:
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #140
178. not sure i agree about....
... your comment about the price of gas b/c any minute now i'm going to be out of bizness; HOWEVER, i agree with you regarding the misogynistic press AND too many of the obama supporters. obama can say NOTHING wrong, even though if clinton had said the same thing, OH MY GOD. she's a WITCH, a B*%CH, an ELITIST WHORE,a RACIST (y'know, against poor white folk - lol!), etc etc... let me count the ways.

at any rate, what obama said and what he REALLY meant (as always, it's WORM), is just laughable. he's got his supporters snowed, and meanwhile, every day it seems, when he speaks without a script, he steps in it. this has gotten him in hot water, and i for one, will enjoy the boil. wait, is that a racist comment? did they used to boil AAs? hmmm... oh, no, it was WITCHES they used to boil. WHEW! thought i was in trouble there for second.

i predict this little episode will destroy obama's chances for further primary successes. funny, how the "little" things always do.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #178
234. Actualy... pay attention......


It wasn't what he really meant, but rather links to what he really said in context.



Since when is citing the full quote, spin?

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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Only I don't buy that that is what he meant.
He can spin it all he wants. It's a good spin.
But I am not buying that's what he meant when he said what he said.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. LOL!!! Not buying what....


that the word bitter means cynical and resentful?


Obviously you did not read what obama said... but hey just for fun, why not cite a specific quote from his comments and point out exactly how you feel it meant something else.

:popcorn:
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Heres a tip,
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 10:56 PM by spokane
these are the same cynic he has always talked about, don't expect this
poster to respond eloquently because I don't think IT have what it takes
to have an open discussion.

I'll ignore this poster as a passing disruptor.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Keep on drinking that Kool-Aid, you're going to need

a 12 step program to stop when Obama loses.

The self-delusion of Obama's fans is amazing.

Obama says something stupid and his fans rush out to tell us W.O.R.M. He really meant exactly what he said and claiming otherwise does no good.

People heard EXACTLY what he said, that people in PA, like people in the MidWest, are "bitter" and "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

In other words, they're just a bunch of gun-toting religious zealots and bigots.


They'll believe his claim he was talking about their frustration with taxes when pigs fly.

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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Apparently you didn't read his whole comment. Try again.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. gee all of a sudden Obama fans are concerned with context. HA HA HA
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Still waiting....


So you gonna answer the questions or continue to demonstrate the accuracy of the criticisms of most hillary supporters on DU ?
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. I like your pigs fly
comment, it bodes well with you. Now, do us all a favor and don't
display your inability to understand simple English.

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. comments...
So people end up, you know, voting on issues like guns, and are they going to have the right to bear arms.

This is 100% true. The 2nd Amendment is extremely important to many people, including some people on this board.

They vote on issues like gay marriage.

Also 100% true. This is a deep concern (for or against) for many voters on both sides.

And they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and things they can count on. But they dont believe they can count on Washington.

To me, he is saying that faith, community, and families are more reliable than the U.S. government. This stance should not offend too many people.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
74. I was impressed with obama's saying something substantive....and he was spot on!
Yes, many people are bitter. They have lost confidence in their government. And they have been, at the same time, sold a bill of goods on guns, and abortion, and gay marriage. Wedge issues like these have been used by the Republicans to appeal to these voters. As well as the philosophy of government as part of the problem, not the solution...yadayada....another appeal to those disenchanted with government used by the Reaganistas and Bushistas too.

so obama recognizes this OBVIOUS TRUTH and has the nerve to mention it? Impressive. Then Hillary and her clone McCain raise hell over him mentioning that people are bitter.

I heard about this bruhaha a little while ago on CNN....they were making it sound like a big scandal, something that could spell the defeat of Obama. I was wondering what the hell Obama said that was so harmful!!! I thought I had missed something. OK, I was playing with dog at the time.....so maybe I missed something. I STILL don't know what the hubbub is all about.

Seems to me a lot people ARE bitter. Obama points this out. He is dissed for pointing it out.

I'm sure that the bitter people will be impressed by candidates not only ignoring their bitterness, not doing anything about it....but actually having the nerve to criticize acknowledging the fact that they have bitterness!!!!!!!

Earth to McCain and Clinton: people out their are bitter, many don't trust their government. Apparently, you are so clueless that you don't even know this....
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #46
100. Good catch, ZH.
Of course it will be overlooked by those who have made up their minds about Obama, who feign outrage at interpretations of his words out of context.

Qutz
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. You're grasping at straws.... and cutting context to prop up a weak attack.

You have to rephrase what he said because even you obviously know he did not say what you are trying to spin his comments as saying.


He's clearly addressing the anger and fustration many Americans feel towards government.

"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to show me any working class american that isn't resentful or cynical towards government.


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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
70. Read the words as they appear on the page...
don't add anything to the spaces in between.

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is so we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, uh you know uh roll back the tax cuts for the top 1%, Obama's gonna give tax breaks to uh middle-class folks and we're gonna provide healthcare for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
90. The level of delusion is impressive
Hell, this guy could bludgeon an anemic orphan to death with a brick in broad daylight and flocks of his supporters would stumble all over themselves trying to out-do the praises of their brethren for such a stroke of political genius. They'd haul out numerologists to add up the number of strokes to the head and the dimensions of the brick and divine some kind of other-worldly sum that they'd all clamor to donate to the cause, plus 37. Quivering with rapturous adulation, they'd rush to fit this into their unified field theory of the man's undeniable grandeur and shout down any dissent with mind-boggling affirmations of the act.

"Cling to religion"; boy, that's going to help in this country. I thought he was sucking up to superstition, not inciting it. That's just sub-amateur.

Once again, he says what the crowd of the moment wants to hear, unaware that he can't be all things to all people. Those riding the wave of fulfillment simply can't conceive that MANY people view all of this with varying forms of alarm, dismay, disgust, dismissal and laughter.

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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #90
95. Pssst.......
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 01:11 AM by spokane
its Ok... you can remove the blind fold, I know, its hard when you're use
to dividing people for self gain and here comes someone with a different
attitude who speaks something that you knew about but kept quite because of
personal gains, its hard to let go.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #90
106. So you support killing children....


You clearly said "bludgeon an anemic orphan to death with a brick" and that quote from you proves that you support killing children... just as much as your cherry picked out of context quote proves obama is attacking middle america.


Care to try again?
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #90
181. yeah... i just wonder...
... when the msm starts hammering away on this (and they will b/c they LOVE to stir the shite), and barry's numbers begin to free fall, how many "true" loyalists will just walk away - become disinterested b/c their man isn't THE man anymore? i truly don't believe his support is as hard and fast as they'd like you to believe. i just don't. i also believe this isn't the last of his gaffes. the mask is slowly but surely coming off and the longer the primary season goes on, the more obvious it's going to be that obama is NOT ready for the white house. thank GOD clinton did not bow out.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #181
237. What you choose to believe...


apparently has very little to do with the facts of the situation at hand.

Obama's numbers just keep getting better and better.


What happened to Hillary's 30 point lead?
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
157. "Explain their frustrations"
Another way of saying who they can blame. They are indeed bitter and need someone to blame while they go to church, blaming gays for everything. They are indeed a bunch of gun toting bigots.
W.O.R.M...I love it.

In defense of Obama...I get what he is saying. However, if life has dealt you a bad hand, then get over it and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Sick of $4.00 gas..DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Take public transport, walk, ride a bike, carpool. CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES and BITCH.

Unemployed? Get a job. Underemployed? Get an education. Sure I will get flamed, but I don't care.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #157
172. I know this post is flamebait but I just can't help myself
"In defense of Obama...I get what he is saying. However, if life has dealt you a bad hand, then get over it and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT."

You have a medical disability, can't work, don't have insurance, so just touch the TV screen during the 700 Club and get healed.


"Sick of $4.00 gas..DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Take public transport, walk, ride a bike, carpool."

All I had to do was get my bike out of the shed and gas went down 0.75. If I go stand at the bus stop, It will probably drop another dollar.


"CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES and BITCH."

That was so effective in preventing that Iraq invasion, I think I'll call and complain about global warming.


"Unemployed? Get a job. Underemployed? Get an education."

Do you deliver that same advice to the homeless guy on the freeway ramp? You probably also think that's the first time he's heard that gem.
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Joanie Baloney Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #26
165. What's that??



Thought so
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
179. yup yup...
the poo has already started to fly and by monday i predict it will be a vertible sh*t storm. should be fun. watching obama supporters sputter and whine while their chosen one tries to wiggle out of it. a lot of stuff that got ignored throughout his campaign will most definitely be brought up again in the effort to "analyze" his meaning as the pile on begins.

hmmmm... now where did i hide my organic popcorn?
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nancyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. He hit the nail right on the head.
So Clinton says Obama is "condescending", and McCain says he is "out of touch"! My Lord, how dense can they possibly be? Obama is absolutely correct when he says people are bitter and angry. We've seen our country go down the drain due to politicians like Clinton and McCain. They're merely acting according to their tired old scripts, and people are sick of it.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
103. The way I see this...
Hillary and McSame thought Obama tossed them a nice easy slow pitch right down the middle of the plate that they could knock out of the park. Only after they had taken the bait and swung wildly at it did they realize they had been thrown a curve ball (or a grenade). It may not have been the third strike, but since Hillary is definitely down in the count, it was a swing and a miss she couldn't afford. As long as the majority of the people are smart enough to read his response and understand what he was saying, it will be Obama who hits a home run with this one. To get away from the baseball analogy, and move to a movie comparison, Obama basically told working class America to go to their windows and scream, "I'm mad as Hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore".
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. Beautiful. Lou Dobbs is going to end up eating his hairpiece...
(he doesn't wear a hat)

Obama gave him an opportunity to spout off on his favorite topic and Dobbs was too dumb to see it.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. From the looks of that hairpiece, I thought he already did.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. .
:rofl:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. If so, why didn't he say it while bowling in PA, instead of at a private fundraising event in SF?
It's not genius, it's agile scrambling.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Spinning. He is a good spinner.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
182. hahaha....
the last good spinner i remember was stevie nicks in concert. MAN, was she a good spinner!! she's way more fun to watch, but this is getting good, too.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Obama went begging to the billionaires in SF. Yup, not so Grassroots as he claims!
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
102. I prefer San Fransisco billionaires supporting a candidate...

To those in Columbia, who are supporting Hillary.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
125. that is much more dignified than begging (& threatening) delegates
-- looks like Hillary could use some pointers on "begging," since she is nothing but a deadbeat who doesn't pay her bills -- what's the matter, is she broke? are those "billionaires in SF" giving their money to "someone else"? :rofl:

if she wasn't squandering your contributions on vermin like Mark Penn and Icky Ickes, she might be getting somewhere. But those are your dollars to flush down her endless mismanaged toilet, feel free, don't hold back, waste your money freely--maybe the small towns she's ripped off might even get paid someday.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Um, because he didn't want it to dominate the headlines while he was in the state.
A campaign has to push one storyline at a time otherwise they're doing themselves more harm than good. That week was all about "PA gets to know Barack".

Hoffa is currently in PA campaigning for Barack.

The unions are after Penn's head.

You have to admit that this flows into that storyline nicely.

The timing sets it up to be the perfect rally/town hall subject when Barack returns to PA next week. "Barack fights against old politics for workers in PA".

That's the election week storyline.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I see. It was all planned. Yes, let's go with that one.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Given the way the Obama campaign has driven the message so far...yes, I will.
The worst mistake one can make is to underestimate the enemy.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #48
58. Obama is not an enemy. Don't overestimate a friend.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. Well, when his stumbles look better than Clinton's carefully planned remarks ...
... why not "go with that"? :rofl:

Good grief! Hillary Clinton's two BIGGEST problems seem to be named Bill and Hill. :shrug:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. ha ha--Obama sneaks off to SF to play with billionaires. --and Disses PA folk. nice guy
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #49
105. Hillary and McCain trivialize their pain.
They both attempted to play Reagan by appealing to the optimism of PA voters, and got their asses handed to them.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #49
126. I don't think you want to go there ... HRC will "one up" Obama any day on the billionaires
thanks for reminding everybody of the chasm separating the Clintons' tax returns from the Obamas.

or are you so stupid you think Clinton isn't hobnobbing with billionaires? is anybody that dumb? I mean, what is Richard Mellon Scaife? What about her buddy Rupert Murdoch? and those are just the tip of the iceberg.

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WTyler Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #41
127. You're right about it being planned... kinda
I'm an Obama supporter so I don't agree with the enemy comments, but he clearly was going to do a pro-worker push next week. He was setting it up with his comments about people being bitter and cynical about the government. Hillary and McCain jumping on it like it was some kind of gaffe however was nothing more than a gift from God.

I come from a part of Appalachia that is very similar to western PA. Clinton and McCain just stepped in it. Big time. We ARE bitter and cynical and we know it. At this point it's become part of the culture and is worn on your sleeve. Pretending that we aren't does nothing but show how out of touch you are.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. Because that's where he was asked the question....

FAIL on the out of context attack... so resort to whining about the venue?

He said it there, because he was asked the question he was answering, there.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...

These qualities of hospitality, patriotism and endurance are exactly what Californians need to hear about Pennsylvanians. And when he spoke to a group of his wealthier Golden State backers at a San Francisco fund-raiser last Sunday, Barack Obama took a shot at explaining the yawning cultural gap that separates a Turkeyfoot from a Marin County. "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. Pay attention to the OP. The assertion is this whole thing is a genius move,
not a spontaneous, candid response to a question asked by a large donor.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. I wrote the OP.... I think I know the assertion.

You clearly don't pay very close attention to what you read.


You asked why he said this in the venue where he said it... the answer is because that venue is where he was asked the question.

Had you read the huffington post piece, you'd know that context.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...


Now the fact he made this statement in response to a question does nothing to contradict the point I made in my OP that he knew hillary would pounce on it and try to spin an attack out of it... and that he had a response ready that would drive the news cycle for the next week.

Hillary and mclame keep giving Obama springboards from which to launch into what he does best and where he is strongest as a politician and campaigner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow

bu bye hill.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. You're almost as good as these guys.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #82
109. No need for spin when you've got the truth on your side.

Ask yourself how far through the looking glass you have to go in order to try and claim that my linking to the full transcript of what Obama actualy said, is spin?





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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #76
183. omg...
"bu bye hill"

you people are so effin' funny! when oh when are going to wake up from your kool-aid induced comas? too funny...
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #183
239. Did you watch the video?


Obama is already positioned, and now has all the media momentum, to make the next week about NAFTA, the bankruptcy bill, columbia, and wal*mart....

how does that help hillary?

Name one way this helps hillary at all.... other than pushing her sniper lies off the front page and replacing them with her lies about not supporting nafta and her laughing about 800,000 payment to her husband from Columbian trade interests?
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lander Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #36
123. He didn't say it while bowling in PA...
...because he was too busy blazing a trail towards becoming the Worst Presidential Bowler Ever, an award which I intend to personally deliver to President Obama at his inauguration... at which he'll probably be...

CUTTING
THE
RUG

with Michelle!

:bounce: :party: :bounce:
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. K & R!! n/t
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
47. Most people will have to agree there is bitterness regardless
to which candidate they support, Dem or Rep.
A bit tough to disagree while identifying.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
52. What's really frightening and sad is you guys don't even get
what part of what he said they are pissed off about. Hint: it's not the bitterness part.

You think it's brilliant only because you have no fucking clue.

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TexanDem Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. He explained what he meant abt guns and religion, etc in his speech tonite >>
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 11:00 PM by TexanDem
Seems people are so quick to want to jump on anything that is said that might can be perceived in a way that will "knock them out of the park." Granted, I am pro-Obama, and at first, I kind of cringed at what he said myself at how it would be perceived. But when I heard his speech and he elaborated on what he meant, I also realized we are all so used to being spoon-fed watered down pablum that when we get some meat to chew on we don't quite know what to do with it. That's why I admire Obama and he is head and shoulders above HC or MC. They're so stuck in the same rut that we've dug by spinning wheels over and over and over again. He gave us meat to gnaw on when he gave his race speech and there were a few who just couldn't seem to "get it" and sadly still need to be spoon fed the pablum. It was a speech that was supposed to bring out the adult in us all. And I see this issue on bitterness is going to be the same way. He stretches our understanding and is bold enough to not wallow in that same rut. It will be a huge, tragic loss if this country kills the opportunity to give him a chance.
That's my opinion.

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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #61
160. I support Hillary, but I like your post alot TexanDem.
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TexanDem Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #160
194. Appreciate that, Olney Blue -- Thanks. :)
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #160
240. As I've said... i also supported hillary...


up until I saw the CA debates... then I was just really impressed with Obama and really disappointed with clinton.

And since then she's just done worse and worse and worse... while Obama has done better and better.


It was clear then and clear now that almost all of what hill says are pre-scripted focus grouped sound bytes... and I can't fault her for doing that on one level, because it shows she is a master of that style of politics. The politics of the 20th century was all about the sound byte, triangulation, and playing to a few states. If it were 10 or 15 years ago, Hill would be beating Obama soundly.

But the playing field has changed, the game has changed, the people have changed... hill and mcsame are using yesterdays game, and losing because of it.





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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. Oh then it must be the part about...
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 11:13 PM by TLM

clinging to things they find more reliable than the government, like religion, family, guns, tight knit communities etc.?

I think Hillary just lost PA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow
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WTyler Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #52
130. I get it...
You don't tell angry people they aren't angry. It just makes them more angry and directs that anger at you.

If Obama had backed away from what he said, yes, you would be right. Instead he's pivoting in a way that makes Clinton and McCain look out of touch and foolish. It's the same thing he did in the Rev. Wright "situation". A couple of days afterwards he was being praised for making one of the most important speeches on race by a presidential candidate ever. The fake outrage by his opponents is a gift to Obama. Don't take my word for it though. Just watch the news cycle for the next week and you'll see.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
184. blackvelvet04
:yourock:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. Thanks TLM..Obama's running his own game..
but, hilary, mccain, and the m$$$m are mired back in the 20th century regurgitating rove's playbook.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
63. Lets hope his response gets as much airplay as the other statement.
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
65. k&r- an impressive "in your face" to his opponents & the MSM who seek to exploit this "gaffe" n/t
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
66. K&R
:kick:
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
67. He repeatedly demonstrates that HE is ready for day one, HE is ready to defeat GOP attacks, HE
is a commanding campaigner, HE is tactical, and HE is our next president.

Meanwhile, Clinton once again tries and fails. Her campaign has been ready to fail from day one.

Failed to plan for a serious contender.
Failed to plan for a long campaign
Failed to develop a consistent campaign message
Failed to develop a working campaign strategy
Failed to effectively manage campaign spending
Failed to effectively raise campaign money
Failed to win the most states
Failed to win the most delegates - even if you count Florida and Michican
Failed to win the popular vote
Failed to avoid being caught in massively stupid and embarrassing distortions about self

...and on...

...and on...

...and on...

And if you want to call me a Clinton hater, first please tell me exactly which one of these things is in some way factually untrue. I'm not calling Clinton names - I'm commenting on the fact that her campaign has been a miserable failure, and not at all reflective of someone who is "ready."



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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #67
84. it's called pure hubris
She pegged herself as the inevitable candidate just like the unsinkable titanic.
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kitfalbo Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
68. Brilliant
Brilliant title makes me think of those Guinness comercials... Brilliant
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
71. Truth works. Obama groks it and knows how to make it stick.
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
72. I am from Terre Haute.
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 11:27 PM by Brigid
Trust me, people around here are bitter and angry, just like Obama said. The economy is awful, the houses sit on the market for months and sell dirt cheap when they do sell, the public schools are not that great, we still have tons of infrastructure work that needs to be done but we can't afford, the young bail out as soon as they finish high school, and we feel ignored most of the time.

I only wish I could have gotten in to see Obama tonight. I can't wait to vote for him in the primary and again in November. I haven't actually been excited about any political candidate in I don't know how long. I have never seen anyone so good at thinking on his feet. He will mop up the floor with McCain in the debates this fall. :)

A definite K & R. :kick:
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #72
205. Sorry you didn't get in to see him
You could have been part of the standing ovation he got for his "bitter" speech. How does the Clinton campaign spin the reaction of average Indianans to his comments?
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #205
226. They're attacking him for it, of course.
But he's just hitting right back. He knows he's telling the truth. :)
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
73. Good Leaders Are Often Great Tacticians
and Obama is showing himself to be both.
McSame won't stand a chance.
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Frisbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #73
107. I've come to the conclusion that
Obama is just smarter than Hillary or McSame. Maybe the fact that he's isn't quite so experienced as they are is what is allowing him to campaign outside the box, and to see what the nations real problems are.
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Nia Zuri Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
78. Interesting that he'd just come out with his proposal for limiting CEOs salary,
I think it was orchestrated indeed. Amazing....
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Pavlovs DiOgie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
80. K&R!
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debunkthelies Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
81. Recommend
I totally agree with Senator Obama he's right on track about how I, and all of my family and friends feel, angry, bitter, and mad as hell. :mad:
Senator Obama keeping it lit for the little guy. :toast: :yourock:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
85. K&R!
:kick:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
87. A-FREAKIN-MEN!!
We, as Americans have been ignored by government. Do you remember how long it took congress to even raise the minimum wage? Yet the banks get into trouble with the housing mess, and they broke the sound barrier getting them help...They pass the bankruptcy bill, knowing it would not help the average American but the credit card companies. Countless bills they passed recently, that do not help the average American struggling day to day, week to week, paycheck to paycheck...but they broke records helping the corporations.

Bitter? FUCKIN A-JOHN!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
89. Excellent OP!
And CNN video confirming Barack's Brilliance! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8dRMofHNs&eurl=http://...

Progressive OP writers will be having inspiration this weekend!
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nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
94. nice piece
sad to say that no matter what inspiration Obama brings, they majority of dem votes will still go toward
Senator Clinton. Her ties run deep. Hopefully, he will cut into her lead. His debate on the 15th should be interesting. I Hope he comes in and does a positive performance and shows that the politics of the past are dead. His handling of the bitterness of PA was refreshing. Most Americans are stupid when it comes to disseminating complexities this is evidenced by some of the literalistic thinking on this blog. The inability grasp something larger than a sound bytes is frightening.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #94
110. I lived in PA for about 2 years....


I know people there and still keep in touch.

From what I hear, and this is from western pa around pittsburgh... they like obama or they don't know. But with Hill they like her or they f-ing HATE her with a passion. She has no "unknown" factor.

Obama does have a big undecided unknown factor, and the more he's in the state the better his numbers get.


If this causes Nafta, wal*mart, mortgage, bankruptcy etc. to dominate the news cycle for the next week... it can only hurt hillary.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #110
207. I lived for 9 years in northeastern PA
I can tell you this will hurt her in the ABE and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton areas. Those people have a right to be bitter.
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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
99. 100th Rec.
Great strategy if this is what he goes with. :thumbsup:
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
108. first i've heard/read his comment. it was almost better than sex! (k&r) n/t
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
111. Truth hurts, don't it.
I see nothing wrong with what Obama said. He has spoken true words. The people HAVE been screwed by the govt and they ARE bitter.

Let Hillary and McInsane spin this all they want.
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TragedyandHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
112. K&R
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 01:56 AM by TragedyandHope
I'm glad to see Obama has brought this issue into out into the open. It's been disheartening to see so many people duped into voting against their own interests by playing negatively on a handful of knee-jerk issues. Obama is brilliantly sweeping away the smoke and mirrors. This is a perfect way for him to draw a strong positive distinction between himself and the worn-out tactics of McCain and his party. He is addressing the big-picture issues and really reaching across party lines with something everyone can get behind.
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Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
113. Obama has done it again! PA... Please see Hillary and John as Jillary McClinton! Obama is it!
Hillary and NAFTA, Columbia(she knew about her husband, how couldn't she have)and most importantly her war vote and the lies that followed. Hillary and John are the extension of Bush.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
114. No, call it like it is: Obama's comment was stupid
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 02:04 AM by Onlooker
The average person only knows that he called small town people bitter. They will view his follow up comments as spin or as completely separate from the bitter comment.

For those more involved, particularly political junkies, the OP's point is well taken, but those people wouldn't be affected one way or the other by a single comment. Obama is brilliant, but he makes some mistakes, and this was certainly one of them.
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L4TRUTH Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. What's so stupid?
I've said before...when you lose control in one area, you want to keep it in another. Barack has seen all of this before as a community organizer in Chicago with the steel mill closings. He's had all of these conversations before. He represents a mid-western state and he knows mid-western values. When people have lost their jobs and all control of that situation, they don't want to give an inch on other issues (gun control, immigration, gay marriage etc..) Those become proxy issues. Barack has dealt with that before in Illinois. The only mistake he made was not fully explaining it at the fun raiser, but these are valid points to make nevertheless. These are very realistic human reactions.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #114
116. "The average person only knows"


Who's being condescending?
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #116
119. You are
I don't look down on nonpolitical people. The average person is not very interested in politics and only hears the sound bites.
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Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #119
154. Funny
My 75 year old mom can listen to sound bites all day long, flipping from one channel to another, while scrubbing the kitchen floor, or shredding junk mail. I can walk in, and she can talk to me about an issue in a way that would put it on DU's Greatest page. Yeah, she's bitter, average, and lives in the Midwest, but somehow she can put the sound bites together and sort out the truth. All the while looking like your average uninformed, disinterested invisible woman.

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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #154
156. She obviously enjoys thinking about politics. Good for her.
But, the average voter isn't paying much attention, and most of the average voters I know would rather talk about anything but politics. They're liberal, but they just get no pleasure out of all the b.s.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #156
242. They are paying attention....

And they notice that the disregard for them is so ingrained in the hillary camp that her supporters toss off condescending and demeaning comments about rural folks being too stupid to read an entire quote, as a matter of reflex.

Keep assuming the voters are dumb and that they're not paying attention... seems to have worked great for hill so far, right?


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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #119
241. You seem to be saying you think rural folks....


are too stupid to read the whole quote.

Must be why you think they need hillary and mcsame to tell them when to feel insulted.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. Ah, another Hillary/McSame 2008 supporter. Go for it dude.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. I support Obama
But, I try to be honest and realistic, and have no need, like some have, for hero worship.
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #114
142. They already know they are bitter
The small town story is only unknown to those who have never spent much time in one, to those living in or near them they already know this stuff. It's possible that the media will twist it but far from certain and I see nothing in what was said initially that they could or should be upset about lacking after the fact spin to twist it into something that it wasn't.

Jobs have been leaving the small towns for ages, north and south. In the north unions have been dieing out and that benefited the south for a short time but then NAFTA and China screwed them too. Factories which had been all but the sole employers for a generation or more are gone, the kids are moving out of town as they get old enough and the communities are getting older, poorer, and with less of a future with every year that passes. In a lot of those small towns they are looking at their last generation or two before the town itself simply collapses.

Of course they are bitter, and they already know that. The only ones who don't know that are politicians who think we've got some large number out there who could be doing better but just don't care to. The mandates are a good example, I haven't been insured myself but a couple of years in my life and I've had to deal with everything from a broken leg with no pain medication to a hot tar splash from elbow to wrist which I never saw a doctor for. Healed fine, lots of us out there are learning to do without and I've seen people do their own stitches as well. Telling me (or them) I'd be a lawbreaker for not buying insurance isn't going to help, if I'd had any options I would have taken them. We're generally a year or more behind on taxes as it is and I don't even remember what a vacation is. There's nothing to cut and not a penny to spend which doesn't equal more debt.

Frustrated? Angry? Resentful? Bitter? You bet.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #142
210. Great story
By the way I love the LEAP website - what issue could Noam Chomsky and William F Buckley agree on? But that is a topic for another forum.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
122. Shhhhh!
Don't tell them his game plans!



K and R
:applause:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #122
139. I'm from a very small town and I'm not bitter.
I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!

GO OBAMA!!!!
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
128. Obama isn't even my fourth choice, but I resent anyone saying he's "spinning"...
when all he did was speak the truth (about our resentment).

"Spinning" is a filthy, dirty accusation to lay at the door of someone who needn't bother and, this being DU and not Freeperville, we shouldn't have to resort to hyperbole to get the point across. I realize it's a minor point, but I, personally, detest "spin" as a Republic tool, and the word needs to be used lightly, as well as accurately, in reference to any (D) candidate - especially when substituted for the words "fact", "true" or "truth".

Dana Perino, on the other hand, needs to have a pea soup pump installed so the masses and others with a limited edumacation can learn the definition of "spin" and how to spot it.

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
131. Obama was dead on with his comments.
I don't think it was elitist at all.

I'll tell you what is elitist, raking in $50+ million in speeches just because you used to be the President of the United States!!
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IamyourTVandIownyou Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
132. 81 percent of Americans think country on "wrong track"
April 4, 2008
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080404/ts_nm/usa_economy_p...

Four out of five Americans believe things are "on the wrong track" in the United States, the gloomiest outlook in about 20 years, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll released on Thursday


Earth to Hill, Earth to John.
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Aloha Spirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #132
164. Apropos point! Puts his comments in perspective. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
133. Obama said religion is the opiate of the masses. I am cool with that. I hope middle America is.
In the general election they are gonna stir fry him for that one. He is going to be painted right up there with Karl Marx. When you say that people take out their bitterness on their religion, you are saying just what the communists say. It is good for us commies, but we will have to see how it plays in the middle.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #133
243. No he said some voters cling to single issues... such as guns, religion etc

did you even read what he said?

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flor de jasmim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
134. PLANNED? It was recorded by cellphone by a HILLARY supporter at Obama's function
It would be hard to plan that--

But there is nothing like telling the truth instead of running away from it. Wish more politicians would do it!

BTW, on the video of Hillary bringing up the subject of bitterness, take a look at the audience behind her--no reaction. They look like they just can't figure out where Hillary is going with this, since they are also probably bitter. It's only a bit later that they realize the reaction she expects them to have.
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desertflamingo Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #134
186. perhaps...
you should educate yourself. it was recorded by an OBAMA supporter who waited a week b/c she was worried it would hurt his campaign. the story broke on huffpo. typical obama supporter - HILLARY DID IT!!!
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #134
208. Doesn't matter who recorded it.
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 02:35 PM by cornermouse
She may or may not be a Hillary supporter. I don't remember people on DU getting upset when George Allen was recorded; something we can all be grateful happened.

What actually matters is the fact is that Obama said it. And I think you know that.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #134
245. You are thinking about this wrong....



The tactical preparation is not about somehow organizing the release of the statement... but rather about having your "set the message" replies ready for whatever might be thrown at you.

It is like a game of chess...
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:51 AM
Response to Original message
136. K & R
:thumbsup:
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
137. Brilliant indeed.
GOBAMA!
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
138. another K&R!
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
141. "Obama doesn't play the old politics game they way they play it." Rich.
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
143. Americans Are Programmed To Not Display Discontent
eom
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
144. Great post
K & R
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
147. Aiki-Politico

Obama is a political Aikidoist. He takes all their negative energy and throws them on their asses with it.

I'd say after Indiana and Pennsylvania, Hillary will be ready to tap out and sing.

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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
148. Obama is laser sharp
and what is amazing is that people are getting it!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
149. You're right, this man is a genius.
He parlayed a potential disaster into an opportunity to express and highlight his message, all while the cameras were rolling. The k/o was making McCain and Clinton look foolish for "going negative". Well played, Senator. :applause: I bet the republican strategists wet themselves when they witnessed this brilliant move. I think Senator Obama's campaign is the best run campaign I've seen on my 30 + years.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
152. The phrase in the OP that jumps out at me:
He tossed out a nice hunk of red meat for Hill and John to pounce on, and try to spin and cry gotcha...


There are two people who have to slam and attack Obama on anything he says, attempting to spin it to their own benefit at any cost. Those people are the presumptive Republican nominee, John McCain, and Senator Clinton who is supposed to be a Democrat, but there are times when it sure appears that those two are on the same team.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
153. K & R
:kick:
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
155. Hillary's looking to lock up the 14% of the voters that are happy with the direction of the country.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #155
158. I don't like where the country is headed one bit.
But I am not bitter. Angry & frustrated but bitter doesn't fit. Bitter would assume the "poor me" reflex and if everyone around you is downtrodden, then where would the bitter come in? Bitter would play to those who were bypassed on a job even though they were qualified but were a minority (woman, black).

Bitter, to me, states that "I should have had" but "someone else got." If one isn't qualified to get, then they should not be bitter.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #158
170. You're kind of missing the definition
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 10:46 AM by WIllo
Main Entry: 1bitter
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-tər\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English biter; akin to Old High German bittar bitter, Old English bītan to bite more at bite
Date: before 12th century

1 a: being or inducing the one of the four basic taste sensations that is peculiarly acrid, astringent, or disagreeable and suggestive of an infusion of hops compare salt, sour, sweet b: distasteful or distressing to the mind : galling <a bitter sense of shame>

2: marked by intensity or severity: a: accompanied by severe pain or suffering <a bitter death> b: being relentlessly determined : vehement <a bitter partisan> c: exhibiting intense animosity <bitter enemies> d (1): harshly reproachful <bitter complaints> (2): marked by cynicism and rancor <bitter contempt> e: intensely unpleasant especially in coldness or rawness <a bitter wind>

3: expressive of severe pain, grief, or regret <bitter tears>


What I should have is security in my homeownership, in my investments for my future and retirement, in knowing I'd have something to leave my sons;

Instead my security is going elsewhere - the government is putting in their pockets or sending it overseas"

I am left to figure out how to get along with immigrants understandably, looking for work in the U.S., while jobs are being shipped overseas.

We're in a dumb, war that is costing us money that could be used to solve this very things. Instead, our kids are dying over there and we're buying their oil.

You'd better believe this makes me bitter and resentful.


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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
162. No. He misspoke. The media, however is protecting him
That is why his "responses" are aired immediately, while Clinton cannot get positive air time.

It is all in the presentation. When you have the media, it is easy.


Any stupid statement, calling people bitter and therefore clinging to guns and religion, is not
"brilliant" by any standard of the imagination.

The fallout has everything to do with the media.
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GoldenOldie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #162
168. The "GOD, GUNS AND GAYS" approach no longer works
The pissed off, bitter, hard working Americans are no longer accepting the politicos/war profiteers/chickenhawk/power brokers, etc., attempts to distract them from their own best interests by using the GOD, GUNS, GAY issues to keep us fighting one another and separated. This is exactly what Obama was stating and no matter how his opponents/enemies want to edit his statements, those in PA, Indiana, Michigan, etc., know he speaks the truth.

Recognize the use of "ELITIST," to insinuate that Obama thinks himself above those he speaks to.

I truly find it amazing that the pundits and opponents poor attempts to try and sell the listeners and viewers of Obamas speeches that what they hear and see is not what they actually heard or saw.

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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #162
175. I agree, candidates live and die by the media right now
However, I think we're in a transitional phase. The media no longer filters the information the same way they used too. The younger forward youtube links to their parents & grandparents which helps put things in context.

I don't see that media is protecting Obama (or Clinton). The endless Wright loop is evidence Obama is not a golden child by any means.

I think the media wants to drag this primary battle to the bitter end. It's good for their ratings. A brokered convention would be their dream, the ratings would go through the roof.

That said, I also don't think Obama planned for those comments to leave that San Francisco fundraiser. But they did. He's a smart person, comfortable in his own skin, so he's able to respond in a calm and rational manner. Which in turn saves him from too much damage.

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #162
246. His response was aired immediately for one simple reason....


it was ready immediately.


Hillary still needs a day or two to have her writers come up with something, then to focus group it, then she'll respond.


Meanwhile Obama controls the media cycle for another week.

"calling people bitter and therefore clinging to guns and religion, is not
"brilliant" by any standard of the imagination."

Then it is a good thing that not what he did....
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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
166. How is insulting voters whom you have to get at least some of "brilliant?"
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #166
248. I'm still waiting to see the insulting part...


Bitter means cynical and resentful... show me one rural person who is not cynical and resentful towards government.


There was nothing insulting in what Obama said.


However hill telling these same folks they are too stupid to know when they should feel insulted, so they need her to tell them, is insulting.
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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
167. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction
From the optimism, social unrest, and idealism that turned our nation upside down in the sixties (epitomized by people like Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, Jr.)...

...we gradually morphed into a culture of cynicism, divisiveness, and class stratification beginning in the eighties (spearheaded by Ronald Reagan and carried through to it's inevitable nadir by George W. Bush).

The pendulum is now swinging back towards a more inclusive, compassionate, and socially conscious America, with Barack Obama leading the way.

This is what excites us. We can feel, sense, and witness the movement all around us. Senator Obama is the right man in the right place at exactly the right time.

You can be cynical and tell me I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, but I'll tell you to look again. It's not Kool-Aid. It's fresh, crisp, clean water.

And it's delicious.
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Johnny Battleground Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #167
198. And that crystal clear looking water is laced with a poison...
... called Wright.
His entire campaign got flushed after people realized the water was badly tainted. Wright.
You may not taste it, see it or feel it yet, but we need swing voters, and many noticed the poisoned waters.
Just look at his numbers plummet and stay down.
And it's only an intersquad kerfuffle.

Wait until the pads are put on and it's smash mouth time.

Vote Hillary 08

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mhoran Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #198
211. Reverend Wright spoke the truth
However much some of us don't want to hear or admit it.

"Here in America, we are descended in blood and spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dared to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."

Dwight Eisenhower, May 31, 1954
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #198
250. You mean the guy bill and hill had to the white house?



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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
169. Like someone here said a few weeks ago: Obama is the judo candidate.
Judo uses the indirect application of force to defeat an opponent. It uses your opponent's strength against him/her and adapts well to changing circumstances.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
171. Easy kick.
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Wash. state Desk Jet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #171
173. He seems to have
exceptional qualities but, he is no genius. He may be a lot of things but genius he is not.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #173
213. I have to disagree
The man is one of the most brilliant politicians I have ever seen. I am constantly impressed with how he speaks and how he runs his campaign. The way he turned this attack into a positive for him is nothing short of amazing.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #173
215. This is the first time I have seen you post outside the Louisiana forum!
:D :hi:


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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
174. Kick
:kick:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
177. ROFLMAO!


Great Analysis! LOL!
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
180. EVERYONE WHO FEELS BITTER---->VOTE OBAMA...
JOHN "THE REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN AND HILLARY "REPUBLICAN LITE" CLINTON ARE OUT OF TOUCH...
WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DEFEND THE WAR...EVER!!! DID SOMEONE SAY THE CLINTONS EARNED $110 MILLION
LAST YEAR.... GUESS THAT $4 GAS IS HITTING THEM PRETTY HARD

JOHN "THE REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN AND HILLARY "REPUBLICAN LITE" CLINTON ARE OUT OF TOUCH...
WHY ELSE WOULD THEY DEFEND THE WAR...EVER!!! DID SOMEONE SAY THE CLINTONS EARNED $110 MILLION
LAST YEAR.... GUESS THAT $4 GAS IS HITTING THEM PRETTY HARD

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #180
216. CAPS LOCK
CAPS LOCK



:D
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
185. Kick
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Johnny Battleground Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
189. "He tossed out a nice hunk of red meat..."
Yeah, it was his head. This will not endear PAers to Obama. Demeaning their owning of guns and going to church. That is what is going to stick, and represents yet another dumb move on his part. He is the weak candidate. Because he has a thin record, and can't really point to anything substantive to indicate leadership of the nation, his words become more important. They have not impressed because he has been thin here too, and has made too many fatal gaffs. Hillary is going to bang him hard on this latest adventure and rightly so. She has to save the party from his mistakes. If he runs, I hate to say it but he will get squashed. He's made too many errors, is associated with the wrong crowd, and his message of "Hope, Change and being a Uniter" has been flushed down the toilet with Wright, Michelle and now this. The real hard bashing has yet to start, and he's already bloodied pretty bad. Better now than against McCain.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #189
190. Proving the old adage, "you hear what you want to hear and think
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 01:16 PM by ooglymoogly
what you want to think" even though it is contrary to fact; It is the path to a dead end in evolution.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #189
202. Guns n' God are what Hillary and John are going with --- ???
Cause I don't see God on the side of war/violence and slave labor ---
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #189
251. Quote the demeaning part....


"Demeaning their owning of guns and going to church."

There was nothing demeaning in his statement at all. Which is why to float that attack you have to avoid the quotes and context.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #189
263. . . . . . Yeah, it was his head.
:spray:




:yourock:
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
193. he just apologized for his genius statement
:shrug:
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. He apologized for an inartful use of words
but not the meaning of what he said.
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Johnny Battleground Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #195
222. He apologized...
... I haven't seen this, but if he did...
One never apologizes for genius... or brilliance.

So... it could not have been that brilliant, and his choice of words far from genius.
So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations..."

"Cling to guns or religion..."?
That was asking for it. Sticking you chin out and asking to be socked, and Hillary has every right to sock away.
It's a contest for leader of the free world and he is not ready. Come back in 8 years with some record and game.
Our side will take a beating with such elementary school errors. These fundamental mistakes cost big time.
He has to win swing voters, and this isn't cutting it folks.
It is the antithesis of Hope, Change and Unity. That has been discarded.

Hillary isn't a unifier, but she's out there with conviction. She at least says this is my way.
When she puts her foot in her mouth it's not so disastrous.
Ever hear her apologize?
I haven't.


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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #222
225. The apologies were to the gun psycho's and the religious
Talyban who are not going to vote for him anyway....it was a gracious move on his part to say "if I offended anyone I am deeply sorry". The ignorant will hate him no matter what he says[ But if they can manufacture outrage by trying to inflate a dead elephant the smart people will not be watching or listening except for its comical and hilarity value.
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ImpeechBush Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #193
228. Wow! The apology is brilliant too!
lol
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #193
252. Quote... link?


I've learned that Obama haters characterizations of what obama has said are often inaccurate and outright misleading.

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bow-tie Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
197. If all the dems are
going to do is apologize every time a rotten repub screams foul, then maybe the dems so prone to apology's need to shut the fuck up and not say anything.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #197
203. Push and recommend ---
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
201. Good for Obama --- the only thing he and Dems have to fear is computer voting ---
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 02:09 PM by defendandprotect
and the DLC ---
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
204. I hope he never backs down. He's hitting right back, and he needs
to keep doing so; NEVER back down. Don't apologize when you are RIGHT.
If you're wrong, different story. But not about principle; not when it matters - stand up for what's RIGHT.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
206. Anyone who's not angry or bitter
hasn't been paying attention.

End of story.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #206
218. Yeah you rite!

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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
209. Obama's a genius, the New Messiah!
You haven't just drank the Koolaid. You've drowned in it.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #209
221. You broke a string


:D

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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #209
253. So you see being tacticaly skilled and intelligent...


the same as being a supernatural being?


I say brilliant and you see messiah?

Or are you just so devoid of any substantive counter position that bashing is all you haters have left... if you ever had anything else at all?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
224. not teflon -- judo takes the force of his opponent leaverages it and uses it to his
advantage.
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Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
227. What an amazing response to that stupid attack, thanks for posting this as I havent seen it. K&R
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
229. k/r
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
230. He is good with the immediate responses and his responses are always
excellent.

It's important to respond immediately and effectively to these bullshit attacks. Obama does it well. I watched the vid of his response. Very well done.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
232. Agree. This "Be Honest with Americans & treat them like adults" thing is working.
Good for him. It'd be nice to have a general election debate that wasn't completely idiotic.
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windoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
236. MSM is responsible for misguided anger.
People in rural areas, especially the ones watching Faux News, many who have lost jobs overseas and in corporate layoffs, are goaded into blaming the liberals, the gays, the foreigners for their losses-which makes them out of touch with reality. But it would be political poison to blame the MSM, and I am impressed that Obama has found a way to focus on these issues without stepping on political land mines.
Obama is speaking the truth when he says people are bitter, and the MSM cool-aide drinkers are feebly trying to discredit him by saying this is 'condescending'?? What a stretch!!
Come on we have got to see through this weak ruse and get to the real issues, fair elections, war, corruption---beating McCain.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
238. The fact that Obama kicked BOTH -> Clintons asses is saying a taste...
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
244. More examples of why Obama would be a weak candidate in a general election
Just can't keep his newbie foot out of his newbie mouth.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #244
254. Pull your string....


amd you say the same prerecorded soundbyte hater spin.
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-14-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #254
268. /yawn
More O-Bot cultists who don't see just how deep their kool-aid pond is.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #244
256. No one in their right mind believes Obama is more elitist than Mrs 109 million-WalMart-NAFTA
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
247. I'm from Pennsylvania, AND I AM BITTER
Edited on Sat Apr-12-08 07:42 PM by JPZenger
I'm from Pennsylvania and I am bitter.

I do seek comfort in my religion to deal with all of the insanities of the Cheney-Bush Administration.

I am bitter about tax policies that benefit the rich.

I am bitter about a war with no end in sight.

I am bitter that Bin Laden is still a free man.

I am bitter about Democrats who spend more time attacking other progressive Dems than attacking archconservatives.

I am bitter about candidates who think they have a right to be President because it is "their time."

I'm bitter about having to worry about the costs of my kid's college education.

I'm bitter about the gangs and gunfire in my neighborhood.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
257. OMG, taking the gloves off this early?
I would be afraid that he might run out of ammo to launch against the establishment. The problem with that thinking is some of us have spent our whole life with that anger and it seems to find fresh outrage everyday. Hope that train gets back on track so we can get to some positive developments like bringing troops home and ending needless occupations :shrug:
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
262. Is he still like, totally brilliant,now that he's had to eat his words and apologize?
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #262
264. Like, kicking this thread, like totally. n/t
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-13-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #262
265. Apparently you missed the video tooo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIxmi3e2Vmo


Doesn't look like he's eating his words... he says his mistake was using words that could be distorted and misconstrued....

Next?
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