Clinton, 'Math', & Obama

[PBS Poll-435]

If it is just a matter of 'math,' why are you pushing it so much?

If Barack Obama has already been given the nomination, or you refer to him as the 'presumptive nominee,' why do you care what Hillary & her supporters say?

If it is a done deal, why post polls and about Oregon, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina? They shouldn't matter right?

If this is a sure thing, don't you have anything better to be doing with your time? Besides, that is, posting recycled (how green of you!) talking points from every RW asshole you can find?

If Obama isn't the nominee, what will you do?

[scheming daemons]

1. Because Hillary can still harm him for the GE.... and she intends to do just that....

[PBS Poll-435]

7. Right...

[Gore1FL]

19. Wel it is true

HEr scorched earth strategy and giving McCain things to run on (even against her) is a poor strategy. Bu I have come to expect nothing less of Penn, Wolfson, and Ickes. She got rid of Moe. If she dumps LArry and Curely, she at least has a chance of not putting her run for Senate in jepardy.

[PBS Poll-435]

20. I am sure that she is not the least bit concerned

about a Senate primary in NY in 2012.

Thanks!

[Gore1FL]

21. OK

I am sure Lieberman wasn't the least bit concerned about 2006 either...

Funny things happen when you piss off a huge portion of your supporters.

[PBS Poll-435]

22. Last time I checked, she won NY in the Primary.

Second...in yesterday's Marist College poll, If Obama gets the nomination, suddenly NY becomes a swing state with McCain up 2 points on Obama. Tell me how pissed they are.

[Gore1FL]

23. She did

I wonder how she'd do now, and I wonder how she would do with an opponent in her race for renomination. There are, afterall, supporters of her, who believe she is damaging the party. How will they vote in 2012 if given a choice?

I am not saying she will not win her renomination or re election in 2012. I believe the longer she keeps the scorched-earth strategy going in 2008, and the longer she keeps herself associated with advisers who are little more than political equivalents of pain and stupid, her ath back to the Senate is going to be harder than it ever was before.

She is better than the Kamikaze politics she is employing. I find it saddening that her staff and supporters find these ineffective short-term tactics to be anything other than a travesty that is far beneath her worth. In many ways, I think I have more respect for her than those people, who applaud her political decline.

[PBS Poll-435]

24. Nah...

What will you do when you run out of threats? Will you just let the damn states vote?

[Gore1FL]

25. What threats?

I merely explained the facts of the situation. Her scorched earth strategy is beneath her. I don;t understand why her supporters think less of her than me, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

The states can and will vote. They already have the elections scheduled. I would prefer that Hillary not utilize a strategy that will hurt thew party now, and her chances at a political future, however.

Staying in, isn't even the issue. It is the party division strategy that she is utilizing as a means to stay in that I take issue with. If you don't think she is better than that, why would you support her? Isn't it a little ironic that hold her in evident more esteem than you?

[PBS Poll-435]

26. I have not a clue what you are talking about.

I love the woman. She is great. I hold her in the highest esteem.

If she seeks re-election to the Senate, she will win effortlessly.

She isn't dividing the party. Obama's more "enthusiastic" supporters are.

[Gore1FL]

30. Well it's pretty clear you don't

or this sub thread wouldn't be so long.

I don't know how to explain it any better. And frankly, I am tired of trying to do so.

IF you haven't seen her negatives rise nationwide because of the scorched earth strategies. If you fail to realize it's all for naught mathematically, and you don't think she is a better candidate than her campaign, there is little point in trying to explain it further.

[PBS Poll-435]

33. She is fine. Most want the contest to continue...

Just because you have new-found (or existing) problems with Hillary, doesn't mean that she is in trouble come 2012.

[Gore1FL]

35. They can continue

I just find t sad that Huckabee ran a better campaign when he was in trhe same position.

My "new found problems" don't exist, however the polls show that this is true with a great many people.

I have thus far been unable to explain effectively why using wedge issues within one's own party is beneath her. So at this point, reply, don't reply, I don't care. I am giving up.

[PBS Poll-435]

39. Problem is,

Huckabee & Clinton are not in the same position. Not even close.

[loveangelc]

29. if you're talking about the mccain/rice poll, hillary was losing as the head of the ticket too....

[PBS Poll-435]

32. I was talking about the Marist College poll from yesterday...

When matched head to head against John McCain, both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are in a surprisingly close race in New York.

Clinton receives support from 48% of the state’s voters compared with 46% for McCain.
Obama receives support from 46% of New York’s voters compared with 48% for McCain.

http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/nyspolls/GV080409.htm

[loveangelc]

34. Both are within the MOE, and that is especially troubling for Hillary given that she is the senator

from NY and virtually tied.

[PBS Poll-435]

38. Okie Dokie!

[loveangelc]

45. that's right.

[chill factor]

50. once Senator Obama is the nominee....

he will kick McCain's butt! There is no way the calm, cool, collected, intelligent Senator Obama can be rattled by the 'senior moment' syndrome and hissy-fits of McCain. Those numbers will change in Senator Obama's favor in one quick hurry!

[PetraPooh]

53. That wasn't a "Marist College" poll it was a student's term paper or something

and whoever did it didn't give accurate stats regarding margins of error because it isn't possible the moe was on 4points when he/she only polled 576 voters out of the entire possible NY registered voters. In addition it states that the moe is greater (without stating by how much) if the questions were cross referenced and most of the questions were cross referenced. So your 2 points could easily become -8 or -10 points with the likely moe.

[quakerboy]

56. That same poll had NY going to McCain with Hillary topping the ticket

how's that work for ya?

[Jed Dilligan]

48. If the idiocracy is backing Obama,

why is he leading strongly among the highly educated?

[stellanoir]

2. Perform a stunning act of spontaneous human combustion

or morph into a "burbling mass of protoplasm."

Can't decide really.

[babylonsister]

6. Let me know when you decide.

:rofl:

[stellanoir]

yet another self deleted inadvertent duplicate

AGAIN

What's up with that?

[stellanoir]

18. you'll be the first to know hon

You may not be thoroughly enhanced by this info.

Think I'll flip a coin.

:hi:

[tekisui]

3. As long as Hillary is in the race, there is a race.

She has a a lot of strong supporters, in each state left. As long as Hillary is in the race, Obama and his supporters have to continue as well. It is about managing the perception and not giving up, for both candidates.

Hillary has enough support to take it through each and every state, but she does not have the support to take it to the Convention or to take the Nominee.

[PBS Poll-435]

10. The race is attracting many new voters.

Why should we stop?

[tekisui]

11. I don't think we should. I said Hillary has support enough to

take it until June 3rd, the last Primary. She does not have the support to take it to the Convention or to get the Nomination.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Let the chips fall where they may...

[tekisui]

13. They are falling. The Superdelegates read it clearly.

Many are being respectful and allowing the process to play out. They, the elected ones, know they need to reflect the popular candidate to get re-elected.

[PBS Poll-435]

14. +3 for Clinton today....

Yep...

They are falling!

[tekisui]

15. Not quite acurate. 3 in 36 hours. But, she lost two in that time. Net +1

4-8-08 - DNC Harry Thomas Jr.(DC)# removed from Hillary Clinton's list after he withdrew his support for her.
4-9-08 - Removed Aleita Huguenin (CA) from Clinton.

[Window]

16. Hillary should not stop. She should continue to run.

[PBS Poll-435]

17. Good...

Why?

[Bigleaf]

4. The Clinton Camp's math problem

The Clinton Camp is just a little slow coming around to the bottom line, the hard figures. Why fight the inevitable? And why are you so angry? Lighten up!




:P

[PBS Poll-435]

9. I am definatly not angry!

This has been a very fun season, so far...

[DJ13]

5. Are we a party that wants to beat the Republicans in November?

Or should we be happy that the candidate too far behind to win outright stays in and helps the GOP as a result?

If the tables were turned, you can bet the party would have already pushed Obama to quit, so why should Clinton get a pass?

[GarbagemanLB]

8. Answers to your questions:

Obama has not been given the nomination, but there is no realistic scenario of Hillary winning the nomination.

I care because it wastes valuable resources and money that could be spent hammering away at MCCAIN, the REAL enemy. Right now he just has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants and gather up support from the GOP base.

Those states really don't matter unless Obama loses to Hillary by 20+ margins IN ALL of them. Tell me again what the polls in NC and OR say? What does the trend in PA tell us? Is there even ONE 20+ point victory on the horizon for Hillary? Maybe West Virginia. Certainly not PA. Certainly not IN. Certainly not OR. Certainly not NC.

You may want to take up the 'posting RW sites' issue with your fellow Hillary supporters. Just today someone (who I won't name) posted a CBS link that had an article written by a NATIONAL REVIEW writer in an op-ed. Of course it was an Obama hit-piece. This isn't to mention the threads linking Newsmax, the Weekly Standard, and other right-wing garbage in order to advance arguments made by Hillary supporters.

If Obama isn't the nominee, I will donate money and (most likely) time to the green party candidate, and vote for Hillary and the Dems down ticket in November. Hillary will not be getting a dime of my money or a minute of my time beyond a vote in November.

[2rth2pwr]

54. Who's wasting resources, if Obama has it locked up all he has to do

is run ads against McCain in key states and ads for himself in key states. That's it.


But you know as well as anybody that there is a chance that Hillary could snatch it away, and that knowledge is

turning into fear, which is turning into irrational anger by many of his supporters.

To directly confront that possibility is too frightening, so the Obama supporters walk around with

a false front of bravado. It's affecting their sleep, their eating habits and even their grooming. Many have

little to no finger nails left.

edited beecawz i kant spel gude.

[FlyingSquirrel]

27. Are you from OR or TX? Just out of curiosity

And if Obama isn't the nominee, I will march in the streets in Denver like all my crazy Obama brothers and sisters. Or not.

:P

[PBS Poll-435]

28. I am from southern Oregon,

And currently live in the hellhole known as the D/FW Metroplex.

[crispini]

36. Haven't seen you in the Texas forum!

Come on by! We have lots of good DU'ers there and may do a meetup in Denton a little later in the month. :hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

40. That'd be fun.

Thanks!

[last1standing]

31. Ummm....Because this is a politcal discussion forum, maybe?

I know that's hard for some people to understand but it's true. We come here to discuss politics and all your points are fodder for discussion.

Does that answer your question or were you really just trying to stifle debate?

[PBS Poll-435]

37. No intention on stifling debate.

Just curious why people keep quoting right-wing sources, keep spewing nasty & toxic talking points, and keep insisting that we call off the rest of the Primaries. If it is 'over' because of 'math,' then why does it continue like it isn't 'over.'

[last1standing]

41. A few posters on BOTH sides are using right wing propaganda. You know that.

I've seen Peggy Noonan quoted here attacking Clinton and the National Review quoted attacking Obama just today so trying to blame it all on Obama supporters is very misleading.

As for the calls for Clinton to quit, once again this is a discussion board. If you don't think she should quit then tell them why. Don't try to shut down the discussion completely. Show your numbers that prove that Clinton has a good chance or any chance of winning. Prove that their numbers aren't real.

What's so difficult about that concept?

[sniffa]

42. Yeah, but more HRC posters quote them

Human Events

Newsmax

National Review

Fox News

Hillaryis44

[PBS Poll-435]

44. Right...

You know it. :eyes:

[sniffa]

49. Yes I do

Thanks for noticing. :thumbsup:

[PBS Poll-435]

52. Well lookie there...

It only took 10 mins...

There is a nice National Review piece on the front page of GDP.

Gee...I wonder what side brought that filth here.... :eyes:




Edited to tell you that there are now two pieces of National Review shite on the front page of GDP. Hmmmm...

:eyes:

[PBS Poll-435]

43. LOL...

Your outrage is misplaced.

[last1standing]

46. That was outrage?

I think I've found the disconnect. You consider discussion to be a heated argument. It's not.

Maybe you need to take some time to consider whether you fully understand the concept of a "Discussion" board.

[PBS Poll-435]

47. I understand discussion.

I also understand that people here have been attempting to end discussion for more than 1 month.

I never tried to quash discussion. (In fact, I asked questions that might perpetuate discussion.)

What I want to know is, if it is over, why are they still posting sleezy articles and talking about Bill Clinton's penis?

[last1standing]

51. Could it be because people are still posting about Pastor Wright?

You are trying to silence the debate whenever you post a thread implying that people should stop posting about something. It's much like the "Get over it" chant of the repubs in 2000.

Once again, a few posters on either side have been posting sleazy bullshit. You know that but won't admit it.

And just be be clear, I'm not expressing outrage, I'm having a discussion. There is no animosity stated or implied.

OK?

[PseudoIntellect]

55. Math is pushed so much because some Hillary supporters choose to ignore it.

Whenever anyone says the race is a virtual tie, it makes Obama supporters go nuts, because the Clinton campaign talking points are being bought.

Sure, there is a difference between a "done deal" and having a 90%+ chance of being the nominee. I'll give you that.