Hillary Gains Allies - US Docs Support Universal Health Care

[OzarkDem]

WASHINGTON, March 31 (Reuters) - More than half of U.S. doctors now favor switching to a national health care plan and fewer than a third oppose the idea, according to a survey published on Monday.

The survey suggests that opinions have changed substantially since the last survey in 2002 and as the country debates serious changes to the health care system.

Of more than 2,000 doctors surveyed, 59 percent said they support legislation to establish a national health insurance program, while 32 percent said they opposed it, researchers reported in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine.

The 2002 survey found that 49 percent of physicians supported national health insurance and 40 percent opposed it.



http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN31432035

It looks like Universal Health Care will face far less opposition than it did when Clinton first advocated for it.

[Lerkfish]

1. don't both Obama and Clinton have nearly identical plans?

not that I prefer either of them, but I'm at a loss as to why this ONLY benefits Clinton.

[OzarkDem]

3. No, they don't

Obama's plan doesn't cover everyone.

[SOS]

115. Both plans are copies of Nixon's 1971 plan, neither is "universal"

"In 1971, President Nixon sought to forestall single-payer national health insurance by proposing an alternative. He wanted to combine a mandate, which would require that employers cover their workers, with a Medicaid-like program for poor families, which all Americans would be able to join by paying sliding-scale premiums based on their income.
Nixon’s plan, though never passed, refuses to stay dead. Now Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama all propose Nixon-like reforms. Their plans resemble measures that were passed and then failed in several states over the past two decades."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/opinion/15woolhandler.html

[TahitiNut]

119. This is what so many DUers miss. (It MUST be deliberate.)

No matter how often it's pointed out, folks keep getting sucked in ... IGNORING the fact that the stranglehold by the financial industry has kept us from the Universal Health Care that EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION has for over three decades. Hill/Bill themselves helped torpedo it for two decades. It's fucking appalling.

[joshcryer]

4. Obama's lacks a mandate, meaning it's not universial.

[democrattotheend]

17. Neither plan is universal

As neither PROVIDES universal coverage. Saying that mandates = universal coverage is like saying that hunger can be ended by mandating that everyone buy food.

[joshcryer]

20. Health care requires that all people in the society contribute.

Saying single payer isn't forcing everyone to pay into the system is a lie plain and simple.

The point is that a mandate protects the national health insurer and maintains low rates. If the national insurer has to deal with a contengent of the population *not paying* into the system, as in Obama's plan, then it will have to compete with the eventual rise in rates, requiring everyone to pay higher and higher rates, thus forcing the system to fail and hurting those who picked the national insurer.

[democrattotheend]

25. I support single payer

But neither plan is anything close to single payer. I think there are arguments for and against mandates, but mandates are not the same thing as universal health care.

[joshcryer]

62. Single payer doesn't create a mandate?

Please tell me how that would work!

[democrattotheend]

114. Single payer is a mandate on the government

Clinton's proposal is a mandate on the individual to purchase healthcare coverage from private insurers. In a single-payer system, the government has a mandate to provide coverage to all citizens, eliminating the need for anyone to purchase private for-profit insurance.

[OzarkDem]

36. Not to mention possibility of "dumping"

by private health insurers of patients with high cost illnesses on the national health care system. Too many loopholes will allow private insurers to raise premiums on sick people, dumping them into a national plan.

Obama's plan, unlike Clinton's, also has no mechanism to "cap" private and public health insuranc premiums to a fixed percentage of an individual's income...


Clinton Would Support Capping Health Insurance Premiums at 5% to 10% of Income If Elected

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/health2008dr.cfm?DR_ID=51219

[joshcryer]

63. That's the problem, what would happen is the private insurers would fuck the national insurer over..

...why Obama doesn't see this is beyond me.

[Lerkfish]

27. exactly. Kucinich's plan was better, and it would have been better altogether to have

Socialized medicine, like every other nation over a certain GNP does, except us.

[OzarkDem]

38. Clinton's plan is fine

and will get the job done.

[Lerkfish]

we dramatically disagree.

her plan puts the decision making power in the hands of insurance companies, the same problem we have now.

[dana_b]

51. yes, it's the doctors who need to make the decisions without the insurance

companies influence.

I don't support a mandate under these current proposed plans due to the fact that some people simply can't afford it. Even taking a small percentage out of their paychecks will make things more difficult. I'll bet that we all know someone who doesn't have health care and every penny of their paychecks are accounted for. A friend of mine is voting for Obama just because of this. She says that Clinton's plan will cause her a lot of hardship.

[OzarkDem]

87. Are you unable to read or just dishonest?

Check your facts before you get into my health care thread and spread disinformation.

There are plenty of links to show Clinton offers a public health insurance plan choice.

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=11&c=16

http://www.health08.org/candidates/clinton.cfm

It is my most sincere wish that trolls and Obama supporters who deliberately lie and obstruct real health care reform in this country quickly find themselves both uninsured and in serious need of health care. Some people only learn through their mistakes.

[dana_b]

124. do you always insult people in such a crude and reprehensible manner??

"It is my most sincere wish that trolls and Obama supporters who deliberately lie and obstruct real health care reform in this country quickly find themselves both uninsured and in serious need of health care. Some people only learn through their mistakes"

Go ahead and make assumptions and asanine wishes about people that you don't know. It seems that that you're showing your real, truly uncaring self here. ignored.

[OzarkDem]

83. I repeat - she has a public plan choice

You either can't read or are lying. I've pointed this out to you several times in this thread alone.

Prove she doesn't have a public plan or shut the fuck up.

[cuadrangular]

55. All I know is McCain's plan sucks

Does he even have a plan?

[rodeodance]

118. you listen to too many myths

[Deja Q]

2. Well, given doctors have to go by what insurance companies say to them,

I'm not surprised.

In some procedures, the insurance company having greater control than the person doing a life-saving procedure is bizarre; though I can fathom some reasons why one method would be preferred over another...

[DesertFlower]

5. a national health care plan - -

neither hillary or obama have it right. the insurance companies have to be eliminated.

[joshcryer]

8. You do that by having a national health insurer.

And having a mandate protects the national health insurer and essentially persuades people to pick it.

ie, closest to single payer possible.

[OzarkDem]

12. Both offer a national plan

a public insurance plan like Medicare, as an option for people and employers to choose from. So yes, they both have national plans. The difference is Clinton's requires employers and individuals who can afford it to enroll, with financial help to do so. Without this "universal" coverage component, the plan goes belly up.

[joshcryer]

16. Exactly, if the national insurer has to compete with the corporations it will *fail*.

The corporations will completely destroy it. Obama's plan is a disaster waiting to happen.

[joshcryer]

18. I hope when she's not the nominee she gets together with Edwards to push a truly universial plan.

[David Zephyr]

6. Hillary's name is not even in the article, yet you put her in the "headline". Sheesh!

If anything, it would be Dennis Kucinich's non-profit, universal health care proposal that would have been in the headline.

[joshcryer]

10. Both Hillary and Obama's national health insurer are non-profit.

Obama's lacks a mandate so his non-profit health insurer will have to compete with corporate insurers as rates go up and people irresponsibly chose not to be insured or pay back into the system.

[DesertFlower]

14. exactly, nt

[OzarkDem]

15. She's the only candidate w/ a universal plan

and I'm sure Dennis Kucinich will be more than happy to help her get it passed when she sends it to Congress.

[powergirl]

59. Right on - I thought some group actually endorsed her

The OP needs to be changed.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Unfortunately, the only Democrat actively backing a SPHC system was Kucinich.

There's nothing in there about them "Supporting Hillary", but I suppose it feels better to make shit up than talk about all the people who are leaving the rapidly sinking Clintanic.

[joshcryer]

13. Hillary's Health Care Plans is essentially as close to single payer as possible.

It is the same plan that Edwards advocated.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. "essentially as close to single payer as possible."

-that is essentially as close to a meaningless statement, as possible.

as possible according to whom? Hillary's donors from the Insurance industry?

Three basic facts:

1) Clinton's and Obama's (and Edwards's, as you note) plans are nearly identical.

2) NONE of them are ideal, none of them are a SPHC system.

3) All of them are better than doing nothing.

[anamandujano]

52. Stop hanging on to Hillary's coat tails. The plans are not identical.

You all like to muddy the waters so that he can continue to pretend he is going to get the job done.

See the other posts and get edumacated.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Mmm Hmmm. Guess the strike is over, huh?

"get edumacated". Cute.

If anyone was riding anyone else's coattails, it was Hillary when she essentially lifted Edwards's plan verbatim.

But, whatever. She's going to LOSE. Then you'll have to find another gig. Waaaah.

[joshcryer]

65. According to *me*. I've spent months looking into their *policies* and Hillary's...

...are superior in any way. If you want you can defend Obama's plan, but it is unlikely you will be able to because this is basic economics and Krugman and others have yet to be rebuked on their condemnation of Obama's lackluster and corporate pocket filling plan.

[Warren DeMontague]

98. Perhaps you should do a little more research. For instance, you clearly don't understand what a

Single Payer Health Care system is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5333997&mesg_id=5337270

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php

[OzarkDem]

21. She's the only candidate in the race

with a universal health care plan. Heck, at one time we had 2 others - now its down to Hillary. Given how hard she's always worked on this issue, despite the attacks and criticisms, the odds are very much in favor of her getting it enacted if elected POTUS.

McCain, no way.

Obama, his plan will crash and burn because of the high costs of care for the uninsured combined w/ underwriting coverage for those who enroll. Clinton's (and Edwards') solution is a national health insurance plan option with requirement that everyone enroll, caps on premiums (as percentage of income) and financial help for those who need it.

[joshcryer]

24. The thing about Obama's "Hope and Change" rhetoric is that his policy proposals are mediocre at best

It's silly.

[JayFredMuggs]

28. what have you been smoking?

Where do you get your "facts"?

Truth is, Hillary has had 7 years to introduce her "plan" to guarantee insurance companies more profits.

Obama, his plan will NOT "crash and burn" if Hillary supporters wake up and see that it is the only feasible plan, after so many of Hillary's ideas have met with a dead end.

Half a loaf is better than none, and 99% of a loaf is better than Hillary's false promises, again and again.

If Hillary had such a great plan, why are we living for the last 15 years without enacting it? It isn't as if she didn't have the chance as First Lady and as Senator in the last 15 years to get it done.

[OzarkDem]

31. Read up

http://www.health08.org/candidates/clinton.cfm

http://www.health08.org/candidates/obama.cfm

http://www.health08.org/candidates/mccain.cfm

Side by side comparison of Clinton & Obama plans

http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=11&c=16

[JayFredMuggs]

48. Honey, I have been a health care analyst since before Bill was President

And Hillary has had FIFTEEN years to "sell" us a plan....

It never happened.

IF she were President, she would propose a warmed-over version of her plan and it would fail.

She will blame the Repugs for failure, and move on.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Please try to find a way to learn how politics and major government control of sectors of the economy, (and health care and health insurance is one of the biggest sectors) work.

Dreams are nice, but practical solutions are what we need.

[joshcryer]

66. Hillary's plan is very hard to implement when it's a GOP controlled house and senate.

If we're going to ever fix our shit we need to do it when we have a majority. Unfortunately Obama's plan *will* fail, *will* cost a shitload of money, and will be a disaster for us 10-15 years down the road.

Thus we may never have universial health care, which is why I plan to petition Obama and Hillary and Edwards to *make it happen*.

[OzarkDem]

97. It will be easier w/ Dem Congress and the medical community backing it

Much easier.

[OzarkDem]

100. Take your discredited 80's GOP economic theories

and go peddle them somewhere else.

[powergirl]

60. Did you mis speak in your OP ?

The article does not mention Sen. Clinton. Why does your subject line state this?

[joshcryer]

67. Because Senator Clinton is the only candidate still running which has a UHC plan.

[powergirl]

72. So, is it a mis speak or a lie?

This campaign has difficulty with truth.

[joshcryer]

75. It is opinion, note the seperator, they are not literally connected.

Opinion "Clinton Gains Allies."

Headline "Doctors Prefer Universial Health Care."

It is not a lie, you just have poor reading comprehension.

[powergirl]

85. Now you are changing your story - like the Bosnia Mis speak

First, it was "HRC offers the only, blah blah blah." Now there is a "separator in the sentence." So, is your first response is mis- speaking? This reminds me of the Bosnia story. Are you going to scream "rev. wright" next????



You wanted people to believe that doctors support HRC. They don't When you post an article, you are supposed to state the name of the article in the subject line. You didn't. Because you wanted to deceive. Therefore it is a lie.

[powergirl]

86. Doctors do not endorse Sen. Clinton -

The article does not mention her. This is a typical Sen. Clinton campaign stunt. Make shit up - it's easier.

[OzarkDem]

92. Your candidate's health care plan sucks

not nearly as bad as McCain's but close. You're going to have to accept that.

[powergirl]

107. So, we resort to profanity

if the lie, mis speak, or spin doesn't work. Another Clinton campaign tactic. This is a common republican tactic as well. The similarities are staggering.

[SOS]

116. It is, of course, a lie

"Clinton Gains Allies - Doctors Prefer Universial Health Care."

Clinton is not even mentioned in the article.
You can't add your opinion to a title.

Or maybe you can....let me try with this article from the New York Times:

Clinton Caught in Outrageous Lie - Says She ‘Misspoke’ About Dodging Sniper Fire

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/us/politics/25clinton.html?fta=y

Hey, that was easy (and fun).
Note the separator, so it's not deceptive at all.
Hopefully your superior reading comprehension will discern where I added some opinion to the real article.

[powergirl]

122. "Obama Gains Allies - White men in Pennsylvania Drink Beer"

Obama drinks beer so all of the white men in Pennsylvania support Obama. Why don't we all try to come up with an article of "support."

:beer:

[OzarkDem]

91. No, I didn't misspeak

Clinton is the only candidate with a health care reform plan that includes universal coverage.

http://www.health08.org/candidates/clinton.cfm

Obama does not. Obama supporters have countered his plan is better because there isn't support for universal coverage. This news story is more proof that the US is ready for it and Congress will have to delivere.

It is a major problem for Obama, I agree. Call his campaign and tell them to fix it if you're concerned.

[powergirl]

109. My concern is the constant stream of lies from the Clinton campaign

such as the title of this article. I could post "Obama Gains supporters. Nurses prefer pro choice candidates" and then you could infer that Obama is the ONLY candidate that is supported by nurses. The Clinton campaign lies ALL OF THE TIME and sadly their supporters do it as well.

[oviedodem]

9. Of course they do because they are GUARANTEED to get paid and don't

have to guarantee good service. Know there is nothing wrong with UHC; in fact Obama has said that if we were starting a system from scratch he would go this route (amazing how Hill supporters conveniently leave that out).

HOWEVER, Obama does not think (I agree) that in these economic times it is fiscally possible to go that far. So in essence he is meeting this issue half way.

[joshcryer]

11. No, he's putting money in the pockets of corporate interests and weakening the national insurer.

Read Krugman's analysis of the situation.

[oviedodem]

19. Wrong again. Insuring our young ones and lowering premiums

is not that bad of a solution. I have asked this question to Hillary supporters that I have run into:

How do you intend to pay for all of this?

Never a reply.

This is reason she has failed in this; she has not put forth a sensible way to pay for this. Look at Mass.

[joshcryer]

22. Reversing Bush's tax cuts. You don't say how I'm wrong.

Obama cannot control premiums by just allowing people to pick a national health insurer, which is essentially what he does. He expects the markets to be fair and kind and so on, but many people would opt out, just like many people would opt out of social security. It's a non-fix.

[oviedodem]

26. The tax-cuts alone is going to cut it. Well before bush did that how well

did Hillary's plan go?

Back then when we did not have:

1. Expensive daily war
2. Enormous tax breaks for corporate and the rich
3. Economic disaster because of the lack of gov oversight


She could not get the thing to go. I don't know how she is going to pull this off now.

[joshcryer]

73. Hillary's plan is overarching and destroys health insurers. Thus it's hard to pass with the GOP in..

...control. Her plan pretty much puts most health insurers out of business except for the big policy people who pay out big cash when someone gets sick or dies.

Obama's plans are much weaker and could be passed with a GOP controlled house, in fact, it'd probably pass easier with the GOP since it basically lines the pockets of corporate interests.

[OzarkDem]

39. How will Obama lower premiums?

on private health insurance plans? How will he pay for the skyrocketing costs of paying for the care of people who wait until they are sick or injured before they enroll in a health care plan?

[OzarkDem]

23. You haven't read her plan

Because it does contain provisions to rate quality of care from providers and also includes plans to control health care costs.

Of the plans proposed, Obama's is the least economically feasible as the cost of covering uninsured health care as a percentage of GDP is rising rapidly.

[Lerkfish]

29. well, her plan is a mandate and is run by the insurance companies.

Fair plan? not so much.

look, you can spin this several ways, but the point is neither candidate has a really good plan for ensuring health care.

[OzarkDem]

32. Read about it before you comment

Her plan includes both public and private options, the same as Edwards.

Read the "America's Health Choices Plan"

http://www.health08.org/candidates/clinton.cfm

[Lerkfish]

37. I have read them, thanks.

and my opinion is that anything short of socialized medicine permits insurance companies to decide how much and what level of care people receive.

you can disagree.

free country.

[OzarkDem]

41. If you don't like private insurance, buy the public plan

its pretty simple.

[Lerkfish]

43. we disagree. now move on.

thanks.

[joshcryer]

64. Uh, the public insurer is state owned and controlled. It's the same one the Senate uses.

Everyone in the Senate and their families are covered 100% for everything. It works for them fine. Why won't it work for all Americans?

Both Obama and Hillary think it would.

The problem is Obama is going to break it by allowing private insurers to game the system due to a lack of mandate.

[McCamy Taylor]

35. MDs and RNs make plenty of $$$. They want job satisfaction---to cure people.

You can only cure people if they can get timely medical care with state of the art diagnosis and treatment. If a woman comes into the ER with advanced stage breast cancer all the doctor can do is watch her die.

That is not what doctors and nurses went into medicine for. Health care providers want to make people well. They do not want to preside over preventable deaths.

Money is seldom the issue. Health care providers are in such demand that they have no problem making plenty of money. But the money you make watching people die needlessly just is not worth it.

[Ysabel]

30. article does not say any of those doctors support hillary what a crock this thread is...

- typo...

[OzarkDem]

33. Process of elimination

She's the only one with a universal plan.

Obama supporters argue that because her plan is universal and covers everyone, it won't pass Congress. This survey and more docs speaking out in support of a national health care plan will make it much easier to get her plan through Congress. There won't be a need for half-measures, as Obama is proposing.

[Ysabel]

45. her plan is not universal...

[eridani]

103. She is not in favor of single payer

Therefore the docs most emphatically do not agree with her.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Hillary's "healthcare industry" donations are mostly from providers---MDs RNs

I have written and posted links about this in before. The Obama camp has accused her of being in bed with the health insurance industry but in fact the reason that the press attacks her in because the Medical Industrial Complex which makes up 15% of the GDP hates her for threatening their good thing. They see in Obama's voluntary program a willingness to compromise i.e if they attack, he will back down. Hillary the fighting Irish will never back down.

Providers do indeed want universal health care. They are sick to death of trying to patch up people who come in with advanced stage cancer that could have been cured or heart disease that could have been prevented. They went into medicine to saves lives not to preside over funerals.

[anonymous171]

40. Of course they would. Garuantees them a paycheck.

Not that I have anything at all against a universal (or faux universal.)

BUT you would be extremely naive to assume that it would face "far less opposition," in fact I would say it will face more.

[OzarkDem]

42. How so?

[tpsbmam]

44. What bullshit. Sorry, I've tried to be really diplomatic but this is

ridiculous. Most US docs support a UNIVERSAL SINGLE-PAYER plan, not the plans that both Clinton & Obama have offered They are NOT allies of Clinton, they are supporting universal health care. And many, many more people advocated for universal health care before Hillary and many of those have the balls to take the corporate greed factor out of it and call for universal SINGLE-PAYER health care. She NEVER has advocated for universal single-payer health and I doubt she ever would -- she's way too corporate to do that.

[JayFredMuggs]

49. BRAVO!

Someone who knows the facts and speaks the truth!

Hillary, Obama, either plan will NOT pass so they are pipe-dreams, both of them. At least Obama has the brilliance to work to get a plan that will work in the end, Hillary, by contrast,(and supporters) stomp out if they don't get their way! Typical.

[OzarkDem]

79. You need to read the article again, it says national plan, not single payer

And of all the candidates running for POTUS, Clinton is the only one that has Universal Health Care w/ national insurance option.

Obama's plan has a public option, but is NOT universal.

Sorry, Obama folks, you're not going to bully or spin this one. Its too important an issue and I won't let you. Your candidate's health care platform is inferior
Clinton's is the best and docs now support universal health care - hers is the ONLY one that has it.

[tpsbmam]

113. I don't need to read the article again --

I've done research on it. We have a local Dem candidate who supports the kind of plan Hillary and Barack have put forth. I finally got so frustrated with his truculence on the issue I did a bunch of research, condensed it, summarized it and sent him a small packet of information about single-payer vs. corporate insurer based plans.

Physicians are on the receiving end of the for-profit health care mess. They don't like it any better than most Americans do. They've seen what corporate greed does to their patients.

[TheDonkey]

112. why must you squabble over things like the truth.

@_@

[anonymous171]

47. You mean a poll shows that Doctors support Universal Health care.

Hillary didn't gain any allies.

[JayFredMuggs]

50. Right.

Hillary loses allies every day with her shell game!

[OzarkDem]

80. Of course she did, she's the only one

of the presidential candidates who has a universal plan. Deal with it.

[samsingh]

53. this is an area of weakness for Obama

i think he should have a universal program too

[anonymous171]

56. Neither of them do.

Hillary supporters are spinning the ever-unpassable mandates as making the plan "Universal" since everyone would be FORCED to buy insurance or face wage garnishment.

[samsingh]

57. somehow - everyone should be able to go to a hospital

or doctor and be treated at anytime.

[joshcryer]

69. We have that. It's called Patients Bill of Rights.

No provider can refuse service to an individual. It is respected on and off give or take. And it's one reason Obama's plan is very bad, because those people who game the system will increase costs by not paying into the system when they're healthy and taking from the system when they're sick.

Obama's plan is essentially like the social security "opt out" plan. You can "opt in" to being covered or not. Most *liberals* would be against this completely assinine plan.

If a major Presidential Democratic Candidate was saying "Let's let people voluntarily opt out of Social Security," then most people here would be demonizing such proposterous comments.

[samsingh]

110. agreed.

[joshcryer]

68. DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT SINGLE PAYER IS? EVERYONE IS FORCED TO PAY.

Unless you can't pay of course, which Hillary's plan accounts for, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Yeah. They're called taxes.

You are the one who doesn't know what a Single Payer Health Care system is.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

What the fuck?

Yeah, fuck you, too, buddy.

I know that's breaking the rules. I don't give a shit. You just crossed the line, jackass.

I happen to have a severely handicapped relative who can't get health insurance for anything approaching a reasonable cost under the current system.

"Here's wishing you no health insurance and a need for it." You said that.

Fuck You and your stupid win-at-all-costs-attitude. What the hell is so Important about Hillary getting the nomination that you need to be so vile? The ten cents or whatever they pay you a word to post that garbage? Blow it out your ass.

[OzarkDem]

104. I support health care refom above any candidate

and Obama doesn't have a good plan.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. I'm done with you.

I've never put a single person on DU on ignore, but you're as close as I've gotten. I said my peace, anything more said to you would be breaking the rules again.

[redqueen]

121. "Here's wishing you no health insurance and a need for it."

That's got nothing to do with either candidate's plans.

[OzarkDem]

82. He won't do it

His plan is modeled after one that came out of GOP think tanks - similar to one "floated" by Newt Gingrich. Likely he's been given his marching orders by his financial backers and will not risk losing their support.

[samsingh]

54. this is an area of weakness for Obama

i think he should have a universal program too

[DerekJ]

58. Don't Mandate

Pffffffttttttt

Both Obama and Hillary plans are anything but universal. Sorry guys.

Do not MANDATE unless the government is willing to cover, and pay for the costs for the poor’s’ health insurance if they can’t afford it.

You either adopt the same system we have here in Canada, or don't mandate. Many poor people will suffer from the mandate, while the rich already have an insurance plan.


BAD BAD BAD IDEA

[joshcryer]

70. Hillary's plan does. Please read the plan and understand how it works.

It is not called universial for no reason. It covers every single American citizen, rich or poor, broke or not, homeless or in a mansion.

The *only* thing it doesn't cover is non-citizens, but they are, by default, covered by the patients bill of rights, and may be covered in the future once it's politically "OK" to actually give a shit about your fellow human beings who aren't "nationalized citizens."

[DerekJ]

71. How does she cover them?! Explain to me.

[joshcryer]

74. You walk into the hospital you sign in, you are seen. The bill is paid.

You go to your doctor, you sign in, you are seen. The bill is paid.

You get a little bit of change taken out of your pay check every month.

All is well.

It's just like single payer if you chose the National Health Insurer. If you chose some Private Insurer you will have to deal with whatever bullshit they throw out at you, and they in turn are competing with the National Health Insurer, so they can't really run one over on you and force you to pay huge premiums and so on.

It's mandated so every American citizen is covered.

[DerekJ]

77. Good.

Ok does that mean that Hillary will establish a national government run, people funded (through taking money of their paycheck) health insurance company?

[OzarkDem]

96. Doctors disagree

Tell it to Obama.

[Danger Mouse]

61. Universal Health Insurance is MILES apart from Universal Health CARE.

Under Hillary's plan, the fat cat companies still get to sit at the table.

[joshcryer]

76. Nope. Single Payer is "Universial Health Insurance."

I don't think you understand how insurance works.

[Danger Mouse]

78. HMO's are still part of the deal under Hillary's plan, right?

For the record, I don't like her plan OR Obama's plan.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Noooo, that is NOT what a Single Payer Plan is.

A single payer plan replaces the entire for-profit insurance industry with one large gov't run pool comprising ALL citizens; i.e., a "single payer", what the GOP misleading calls "socialized medicine"... although government-run insurace seems to work just fine for Congresspeople, The Military, Medicare, etc.

Canada has a Single Payer system. Single Payer systems replace the private, for-profit insurance industry.

That is NOT the same thing as fiddling the margins so that, by hook or by crook, the current insurance industry would be cajoled into covering everyone. (By the way; Obama's plan will stop insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Will Hillary's?) This is not the same thing as eliminating the industry with its 20-30% profit margins and replacing it with a government-run plan containing maybe 3% overhead.

I'm astounded, really, that someone portraying themselves as an "expert" on this topic wouldn't know this.

[OzarkDem]

89. Prove it, lemming

I've had this discussion with you dozens of times and posted proof again and again.

Clinton has a universal health care plan that includes private and public options. Everyone in the US is covered based on their ability to pay.

That is universal health insurance and under her plan it will get you quality health care.

Read the plan before you open your piehole again

http://www.health08.org/candidates/clinton.cfm

[Danger Mouse]

94. how about this? i'll open my piehole when i damn well please.

and when you open with a personal insult, then i'm not going to bother to respond to your arguments in a civil manner.

[OzarkDem]

101. Have some self respect

and try to make an honest argument or I'm not going to bother replying to you anymore.

[Danger Mouse]

108. Hillary Clinton's plan involves the HMO's correct?

As far as I'm concerned, the only Health Care plan I'll support is one that eliminates them entirely.
That is why I have consistently said that I do not like Obama OR Clinton's plans.

[Swamp Rat]

81. Hooray for Universal Health Care!!!

:applause:

[powergirl]

93. Doctors do not endorse Sen. Clinton -

In fact, Cafe Press doesn't even sell buttons or shirts that state "doctors for clinton." They do, however, sell "Doctors for Obama" buttons, shirts, etc. See for yourself:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/obama/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_25601824/opt_/fpt_/c_666/

[OzarkDem]

99. All the ones I know do

and I know hundreds of them. :hi:

[powergirl]

105. They're not mentioned in this article

And they aren't buying buttons at cafe press.

[eridani]

102. Neither candidate favors single payer

Clinton wants to force us to subsidize private insurance.

[Armstead]

111. Hillary isn;t gaining allies -- She isn't for true national health care plan

She and Obama both support patchwork half-assed solutions.

[lolamio]

117. My husband is a physician who supports Obama, as do many of his colleagues.

When I mentioned the survey to him, he rolled his eyes. I really wouldn't put too much stock in it.

[redqueen]

120. Universal Health INSURANCE.

And where is this tied to support for Clinton's plan over Obama's?

I love the spin. *sigh*

[BlueIdaho]

123. Sun comes up this morning - a sure sign it endorses Clinton.

Typical grasping at straws from a HRC supporter. The doctors support universal health care - PERIOD.